RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device

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Author Topic: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device (Read 140207 times)

Grumpy	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #100 on: 2011-06-14, 22:24:17 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 21:57:35 With the periphery hall, he uses the larger flat side of the hall which needs a north to activate. The UA type Hall with three leads out of the bottom (TO-92) is triggered high by a north pole or no magnetic field, so when the south poles are away from the sensor it will go high and it will go low when the south poles are near the sensor.

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #101 on: 2011-06-14, 22:24:57 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	At low revs they are fighting for spin direction, but the rotor drive wins because it's turned on longer and don't forget, the periphery coil is a single stranded wire but the rotor coil is the same wire size but 2 stranded in parallel so also sinks more current, it all favours clockwise direction while the periphery coil trys to fight the clockwise direction, but i bet when it reaches speed they work in harmony and regulate the rpm to load Any have a good evening chaps I'm off to bed

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #102 on: 2011-06-14, 22:26:51 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	No G they are both 3144, i tried it the hall is either on or off , put south pole on face it turns on, put north on reverse face it turns on or which ever way round it should be

EMdevices	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #103 on: 2011-06-14, 22:33:14 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	Oh, I remember why I minimized the importance of the back and forth rocking motion of the rotor after it was turned on, and before he manualy pushed it in the clockwise direction: I thought that cogging was strong enough to bring the rotor back after a pulse, but on second thought, that can't be, because as the motor pulses, trying to start, it injects more and more kinetic energy into the rotor, and it should eventualy break loose, because cogging is not a power consuming phenomena (we'll a little bit due to hysterisis loss, but minimal, so cogging is similar to a spring that gets compressed and then pushes back) So yes, absolutely, RomeroUK seems to be under the wrong impression about his dynamo motor coil activation from the statement he made. Great detective work Peter! EM « Last Edit: 2011-06-14, 23:50:38 by EMdevices »

Grumpy	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #104 on: 2011-06-14, 22:54:38 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 22:26:51 No G they are both 3144, i tried it the hall is either on or off , put south pole on face it turns on, put north on reverse face it turns on or which ever way round it should be Why is the US5781 Hall Sensor in the PDF?

Grumpy	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #105 on: 2011-06-14, 23:48:28 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	CLaNZeR is testing/adjusting his now (page 5) also see page 3 and 4 for pics http://www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?1773-MULLER-Generator-free-energy-self-runner-at-overunity.com-romerouk-has-a-self-runner/page2 Nice work.

EMdevices	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #106 on: 2011-06-15, 00:01:38 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	Wow, my mind is spinning again due to this new revelation ! One of these days I'm going to have a stroke But, consider this. I was always puzzled why his motor was consuming 12 watts, just to run! A dc motor that is not loaded consumes very little power because it speeds up to a velocity that raises the BEMF to the same potential as the Battery voltage driving the motor, and current then is (Vbemf - Vbatt) / Rcoil = very small value, just enough to overcome frictional losses which are not that large. But this motor UNLOADED injects about 12 WATTS of power into it? where the hell is all this power going? Don't laugh, but I think this power is pumping up an unseen VORTEX or energy storage mechanism not readily descernable at the moment. And guess what, injecting power like that into an UNSEEN STORAGE MECHANISM, means that when it's loaded, this unseen VORTEX IS GIVING THE POWER BACK. THEREFORE, WE NEED TO RE-ANALYZE HIS VIDEO FOR THE DURATION OF RUN TIME WITH AND WITHOUT THE LIGHT BULB. FOR ENERGY BALANCE, THE DYNAMO BETTER BE ON, WITHOUT THE LOAD, MORE THAN TWICE THE TIME DURATION AS WITH A LOAD, IF WE ARE DEALING WITH AN INVISIBLE ENERGY STORAGE MECHANISM HERE Your faithful servant, EM PS. This 12 watts input is because of the 2 motor coils and the way they oppose the rotor, so this energy WE ASSUMED was energy lost in heating and friction, but it's not because losses are much less for such a motor. In reality, the energy is SAVED in an unexplainable STORAGE MECHANISM in this dynamo, which could be a strain in the magnetic field of the rotor, or a spinning magnetic field that spins faster than the rotor and builds up, like I explained at OU, or some VORTEX that we don't understand at the moment. But it's not 12 watts of LOST power. No way! So power input times time = energy input, then power ouput * time = energy output. And since Pout = 2* Pin, to have this equation be equal is to have it run with no load TWICE as long as with a load. And I think RomeroUK found that out and technicaly it is a "FAKE" like he said, from the point of view of an OU device, but it's not a FAKE from a sincerity point of view. He's an honest guy, and has stumbled on a very interesting storage TECHNOLOGY !!!!!!!!!! « Last Edit: 2011-06-15, 02:35:10 by EMdevices »

EMdevices	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #107 on: 2011-06-15, 03:18:47 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	I posted this new insight at OU.com for RomeroUK to see and confirm. THIS DYNAMO MOST LIKELY IS A NOVEL MAGNETIC STORAGE DEVICE so not OU, but very, very, very, interesting! It could replace batteries in electric cars ! Current magnetic flywheel technology is quite mature but requires realy high speed rotors made out of fiberglass and magnetic bearings and very special design to minimize eddy current losses, etc... and very EXPENSIVE !, but look at this RomeroUK dynamo. The guy unknowingly stumbled on this because his HALL SENSORS WERE FIRING THE WRONG WAY, and opposing. One wanted to work Clockwise, the other Counter-Clockwise ! So what we were seeing was real, Pout = 2 x Pin, the video did not lie, but it's not OU because what eluded all of us was the TIME. you see, IT'S THE ENERGY BALANCE NOT THE POWER BALANCE THAT MATTERS. EM « Last Edit: 2011-06-15, 08:14:56 by EMdevices »

Grumpy	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #108 on: 2011-06-15, 03:54:16 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	I have doubts that this device is OU, but if you look at the magnetic field between the coils and the rotor magnets, it is narrow as the magnet aligns and spreads as the coil is between magnets. Do a quick sketch and it will make more sense. So, the magnetic field is compressed and expanded - pumped. I don't see a mechanism for gain though. If energy is stored, how is it stored? Aether rotation in the northern hemisphere is CCW, so your CW generator is against the natural rotation of this medium.

EMdevices	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #109 on: 2011-06-15, 04:20:22 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	Quote If energy is stored, how is it stored? That's the million dollar question ! As people were asking questions of RomeroUK, he discovered what was happening. A big clue was IT DOES NOT WORK UP-SIDE DOWN ! Remember how excited I was when he posted that? When things don't make sense and are so contradictory, for example, concervation of energy yet we see 2XPin on the output, that's when discoveries are made. Now the question is how and in what form is this energy stored? Is it a strain in the magnetic field at a fast velocity? Lot's of good things can come from this. But, what if it is OU? What if we are tapping into a vortex of sorts? Like in the TPU? Think about bifilar TPU windings that are pumped and create and mix and produce a fast RPM magnetic field, now what if Steven Mark does the same thing, PRELOADS THE TPU'S WITH ENERGY from the outlets? Ever thought of that? He keeps being obsessed with comparing it with a battery! (" .. If this were a battery, it would be an entirely new kind of battery ..") But maybe he is tapping into invisible vortexes that are not recognized by current science theory. Who the hell knows! I don't know, just specualting here. I need to take a break or I'll short circuit my brain for sure. Tomorrow I'll do more thinking on how this storage mechanism is supported by the dynamo. EM

chrisC	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #110 on: 2011-06-15, 04:23:32 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-06-15, 03:18:47 I posted this new insight at OU.com for RomeroUK to see and confirm. THIS DYNAMO MOST LIKELY IS A NOVEL MAGNETIC STORAGE DEVICE so not OU, but very, very, very, interesting! It could replace batteries in electric cars ! Current magnetic flywheel technology is quite mature but requires realy high speed rotors made out of fiberglass and magnetic bearings and very special design to minimize eddy current losses, etc... and very EXPENSIVE !, but look at this RomeroUK dynamo. The guy unknowingly stumbled on this because his HALL SENSORS WERE FIRING THE WRONG WAY, and opposing. One wanted to work Clockwise, the other Counter-Clockwise ! What we were seeing was real, Pout = 2 x Pin, the video did not lie, but it's not OU because what eluded all of us was the TIME. you see, IT'S THE ENERGY BALANCE NOT THE POWER BALANCE THAT MATTERS. EM EM: I think you're overly excited and I don't think the Hall devices are firing to oppose each other; I think all the people whose machines are working have sensors triggering mutually exclusive of each other but moving the rotor in the same attraction mode direction. Calm down ..... chrisC « Last Edit: 2011-06-15, 07:47:19 by chrisC »

EMdevices	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #111 on: 2011-06-15, 04:31:08 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	I'm affraid that's the problem Chris ! In this case we are all using our brains with these replications, and wire the 2 motor coils to move the rotor in the same direction. That's what I was going to do, and that's the sensible thing to do! But what do you know, being careless and stupid might have it's benefits after all! (I'm not saying Romero is stupid, this is a retorical statement) In RomeroUK's dynamo one motor coil wants to move it Clockwise and the other Couterclockwise, (read what Peter found out) Who in their right mind would configure a rotor like that? You see, the jerking back and forth of the rotor, when power is turned on is a VERY BIG CLUE, which again was missed. For comparison, DC fan motors in PC's are designed about the same as this dynamo, and it uses hall sensors too, and IT STARTS RIGHT UP, NONE OF THIS JERKING BACK AND FORTH AS POWER IS APPLIED. After power is applied, than RomeroUK has to stick his hand in there and manualy start the rotor going CLOCKWISE and free it from this jerking motion. It will all sink in slowly, give it time. EM « Last Edit: 2011-06-15, 04:57:48 by EMdevices »

poynt99	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #112 on: 2011-06-15, 05:04:29 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	EM, Peter, Let me ask you both this; Is this in your opinion an accurate depiction of the coil/magnet configuration, and orientation? .99 ------------------------ RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device Romero_arrow_CW_and BH curve.PNG (157.65 kB, 871x703 - viewed 1003 times.) --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

chrisC	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #113 on: 2011-06-15, 05:05:35 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-06-15, 04:31:08 I'm affraid that's the problem Chris ! In this case we are all using our brains with these replications, and wire the 2 motor coils to move the rotor in the same direction. That's what I was going to do, and that's the sensible thing to do! But what do you know, being careless and stupid might have it's benefits after all! (I'm not saying Romero is stupid, this is a retorical statement) In RomeroUK's dynamo one motor coil wants to move it Clockwise and the other Couterclockwise, (read what Peter found out) Who in their right mind would configure a rotor like that? You see, the jerking back and forth of the rotor, when power is turned on is a VERY BIG CLUE, which again was missed. For comparison, DC fan motors in PC's are designed about the same as this dynamo, and it uses hall sensors too, and IT STARTS RIGHT UP, NONE OF THIS JERKING BACK AND FORTH AS POWER IS APPLIED. After power is applied, than RomeroUK has to stick his hand in there and manualy start the rotor going CLOCKWISE and free it from this jerking motion. It will all sink in slowly, give it time. EM EM: I wish you were correct but my motor jerks because the position of any of the 2 hall sensors is indeterminate at start up and it will involve us turning it and then according how your driver coils are wound, it will either go clock or anticlockwise. In my setup, I wired a DPDT switch for top and bottom drive coils because I don't remember which way I wounded the coils and flipping the switch will get me the correct wiring. Is your motor up and running yet. You will see what I mean. chrisC

giantkiller	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #114 on: 2011-06-15, 05:15:27 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1593 Frequency equals matter...	Quote Now the question is how and in what form is this energy stored? Is it a strain in the magnetic field at a fast velocity? Lot's of good things can come from this. The simplest way to do this would be a magnetic field shear or two coils at 90degrees to each other. Create that warped field in space then mangle it. Or treat it with beauty like Spheric's design. Given time and all will be apparent. « Last Edit: 2011-06-15, 06:08:27 by giantkiller » --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

EMdevices	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #115 on: 2011-06-15, 06:11:56 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	Wow, I had another idea. If this device is indeed OU, than the motor coil with a hall sensor over the rotor magnets (with the longer ON time) moves the rotor, but the other motor coil (with the shorter ON time) injects power into the BEMF of the coil, hence into the complex dynamic magnetic fields of this dynamo, AT THE RPM of the rotor, but this energy or magnetic strain could then snap after the hall turns OFF and propagate at a FASTER rpm or frequency in this magnetic turbine, and the faster velocity of this magnetic wave produces extra power in the output coils by some mechanism we don't yet fully understand. EM @p99, yes, that was Romero's drawing with my appended B-H curve. @ Some of you who were shocked by this latest developments should be more at ease. We have stumbled on a very important aspect, which frankly I have never contemplated before. A type of energy transformer, inject at low frequency, gather at higher frequencies, with gain! because a higher dphi/dt (or flux time rate of change) means higher voltage, so if the current is somehow constant, we than have power amplification in this magnetic turbine.

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #116 on: 2011-06-15, 06:27:27 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Darren That image only represents a generator coil, the motor coils do not have washers or magnets on top and on the bottom

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #117 on: 2011-06-15, 06:51:31 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	There is also something interesting the way the periphery coil is wound, firstly the bobbin is not overflowing with wire like all the other coils, 2 it is cone shaped wound, 3 it has a solder joint where he has tagged wire onto it (Maybe he had to tune the length and turns)

EMdevices	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #118 on: 2011-06-15, 08:26:49 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	To convince yourselves of how little current and power an unloaded DC motor draws in steady state, meaning it has reached the proper speed, power your motors with ONLY ONE COIL. Disable the other one, just for this test. (when a motor starts or accelerates it draws lots of current because the velocity is not yet producing a large enough BEMF voltage to counteract the supply voltage. Also, if you load down the shaft, than it slows down and draws current to produce torque, for the same reasons, because the BEMF voltage is lower at slower speeds, and it's lower than supply voltage. Lots of good references exist on the web) EM

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #119 on: 2011-06-15, 08:59:07 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	One other anomaly i found when replicating the coils is the direction of connection from the top coil to the bottom coil. It looks to me the top and bottom coils are wound in the same direction, the start point at which he winds always gets put through the hole in the top and bottom plate on the outside of the disc and the coils finish point to the inner hole on the top and bottom plate, the inner coil connection comes up and solders to his middle connection on the 3 terminal connector, Now he uses an orange wire to connect the center terminal of the top screw terminal to the center pin of the bottom plate coil screw terminal, when i tried this my top coil was working in attraction mode and my bottom coil was working in repulsion mode, offcourse this didn't work out as the drives coils were fighting the rotor manget, so either i have the bottom coil wind direction wrong(which is hard to confirm in the video) or he is not using a 1cm rotor magnet but 2 smaller magnets , 1 with south facing up and the other with south facing down, offcourse if he did do this using say 2 x 5mm magnets or even 2 x 3mm magnets then they would repel strongly at their joint faces and the result would be an air gap which would mean his magnets would be bigger than 1 cm height in total, the result of this would be apparent in that he would have magnet sticking above the surface of the 1cm rotor perspex and also have some magnet sticking out below the 1cm rotor perspex, and guess what he does, so either i am right or his rotor is not 1cm. my magnets do stick up a little but not on the bottom surface, so there is something strange here also, could he be using 2 magnets in repulsion mode for each rotor magnet? « Last Edit: 2011-06-15, 09:27:27 by Peterae »

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #120 on: 2011-06-15, 12:10:22 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Hurray i just got a packet of cores delivered Just need to cut them down now and make another 5 gen coils , a bit of wiring and i am almost there

Hoppy	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #121 on: 2011-06-15, 14:36:54 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-06-15, 03:18:47 I posted this new insight at OU.com for RomeroUK to see and confirm. IT'S THE ENERGY BALANCE NOT THE POWER BALANCE THAT MATTERS. EM AMEN! Joules to rule them all. Hoppy

sivispacem	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #122 on: 2011-06-15, 16:24:07 »
Group: Guest	Ether Vortex / Rotation as "Energy Storage" Reminds me of Harold Aspden's experiment with a rotor and a coaxial magnetic field. Unfortunaltely I do not have a picture of his setup (...does anybody have one?), attached please find the related pages of his latest book "Creation". He accelerated a rotor with a coaxial magnetic field up to a speed with a certain amount of input energy. If the rotor was stopped and immediately accelerated again, much less energy was needed to get it at the same rotational speed as before. This effect only faded if the rotor was stopped for a couple of minutes. This correlates exactely with EM's thoughts. Cheers, Sivispacem ------------------------ TOE_Mag_Rot.pdf (38.4 kB - downloaded 366 times.)

Grumpy	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #123 on: 2011-06-15, 17:31:30 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: sivispacem on 2011-06-15, 16:24:07 Ether Vortex / Rotation as "Energy Storage" For the sake of a thought excercise, let's say there is an aether interaction with the rotor, and that this stores energy like other fields do. How might we magnify this stored energy so that we have gain? We have to alter the aether density - somehow. Let's further the excercise and say that Vlaenderen is close enough with his theory and the following applies: (attached) To change aether density, we apply HV impulses or a divergent/convergent current to our rotating aether storage region in some way to cause a longitudinal wave in the direction of the pickup coil windings. (last part based on comments by Spherics - below) Quote This void combined with the rotating pulses cause the ether to spiral. The spiraling ether interacts with the metal of the copper toroid along with the vertical direction pulse from the top coil. This cause the ether to not only spiral round in a circle as viewed from above but also to corkscrew along the path of the toroid windings. The corkscrewing path of the ether around the toroid is now in line with the windings. This creates a longitudinal wave along the copper creating a large current effect in the toroid windings. Which is what is needed. I don't see an easy way to do this, at the moment. ------------------------ RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device HV impulse or Diverging current to get Scalr Field.PNG (87.68 kB, 845x458 - viewed 964 times.)

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #124 on: 2011-06-15, 20:58:13 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	OK i can confirm that with both sets of drive coils running in attraction mode the motor runs well, infact the periphery hall although timed after the magnet approaches does indeed accelerate the rotor once it's running and because it's on period is shorter than the main rotor drive coils it will start quiet easily clockwise, i am guessing the periphery drive although it impedes the rotor direction at low revs actually ends up being correctly timed once up to speed.

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