RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device

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Author Topic: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device (Read 140202 times)

exnihiloest	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #50 on: 2011-06-14, 09:57:01 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 09:00:34 G Wake up, This device has been shown to work and is easy to build, we have the plans and circuits. If you are saying this is a fraud without first building it and understanding how it works then that is the wrong way ... I don't think so. We are not here to build motors that work. The conventional technology makes thousands working motors every day. We are here to build free energy devices. And in order to duplicate so-called free energy devices, the inventor must first give all technical details and show sufficient experimental evidence. "This was a big fake, stop replicating" Romero, May 10

BEP	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #51 on: 2011-06-14, 12:05:39 »
Group: Guest	This is Peterae's replication of the Romerouk motor, not a TPU or slotted fluxgate motor. I was convinced before that this replication was the only public one that may be an actual replication. Now that I've had access to read the history on this motor, I am totally convinced this is the only real current replication. Allow Peter to continue. GK, I would suggest you start a separate thread on the slotted aluminum disk idea but hope you don't waste much time or money on it. I did. Short of using high-end plasma physics and magnetic reconnection theory you will not switch flux off and on and the rotating aluminum will only act as an Eddy brake. There are no MEGs that work because the only way to stop the 'flow' of a 'magnetic current' in a ferrous loop is to intersect it orthogonally with another ferrous loop and magnetic current. Funny, if Bearden replaced his control coils with an orthogonal iron loop which included a control coil, that mess may work. Basic magnetic and electrostatic amplifier theory. Esoteric but both are facts. G, I also suspect any possible and useful ether vortex will be CCW. If that is true and ether has anything to do with this motor then the rotor should turn CW. Nobody knows where extra energy may come from. Many are convinced what some call 'ether' is simply several commonly known forces and energies simply being separate manifestations of one thing. Ex, I have only one comment for you. Keep your consistent negativity and insults off of peoples benches. Sorry Peter. Feel free to delete this post if you wish.

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #52 on: 2011-06-14, 13:15:13 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Cheers WW It's a refreshing change to be able to build a motor. It will travel it's course, i have started the replication and am not far away from having everything i need to finish it, so i will continue OK found a source of cores from Ferroxcube 6mm x 25mm so will need to cut the length down, i also have a broken psu waiting at a friends ready to pick up, i will then be able to compare core characteristics.

poynt99	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #53 on: 2011-06-14, 13:33:01 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Have we worked out what the function of each Hall sensor is for yet? The side Hall for firing the 2 drive coils, and the top Hall for ? .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #54 on: 2011-06-14, 14:14:42 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Hi Darren The top hall also fires another 2 coils (Top and Bottom) but it uses the magnets on the rotor to trigger, i wont know the fire timing until i connect that one up later. OK here's a picture that shows the 2 hall sensor positions, each sensor is circled in Green with the top disc's drive coil in purple In the picture the top sensor is the periphery and at the bottom of the picture you have to hall that senses the rotor magnet, you can see the relative postion of the sensor compared to the drive coils clearly although to get exact positioning i zoomed into different parts of the video ------------------------ RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device HallsPosition.jpg (80.37 kB, 1024x672 - viewed 2833 times.)

wattsup	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #55 on: 2011-06-14, 14:47:14 »
Hero Member Posts: 520	Look at this. ------------------------ RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device hall-sensors1.jpg (83.49 kB, 760x635 - viewed 1231 times.) --------------------------- http://etherimpress.com

Grumpy	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #56 on: 2011-06-14, 14:57:47 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Romero said he used two of the coils as a motor and the other seven as a generator: ------------------------ RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device RomerUK Circuit_Muller-Type Generator.PNG (520.56 kB, 945x1114 - viewed 1684 times.)

poynt99	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #57 on: 2011-06-14, 15:01:15 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Hmm, So there may be something "covert" going on here; it doesn't really make sense, unless I am missing something. Have you been able to trace where the wiring of each Hall sensor goes? Thanks, .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #58 on: 2011-06-14, 15:17:28 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Indeed i have traced the wires and even got the coils connected up just as he has, and this leads to believe that both set's of coils are working in repulsion mode. I need to test the rotor hall out first, but the hall itself is wrongly aligned to trigger from the rotor magnet, it's standing up whereas if it truly was triggering correctly from the rotor magnet it would have 1 of the flat faces parallel to the magnet face but it is 90 degrees from this, my theory is that it also works in repulsion mode and pushes the magnet that went through the drive coils ahead of time so therefore what i am saying is that the rotor magnet that triggers the hall is not the magnet that is pushed away from the drive coils it's the magnet that went through before or should i say the magnet that is ahead on the rotor position that gets pushed away, we are coming back to this virtual north idea of EM's which i already proved exists between each south facing magnet. Anyway i will test this out tonight and see when the rotor magnet triggers. @ wattsup Where did that diagram come from stating one coil repells and the other attracts, was it from Romero directly?

poynt99	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #59 on: 2011-06-14, 15:30:37 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 15:17:28 Indeed i have traced the wires and even got the coils connected up just as he has, and this leads to believe that both set's of coils are working in repulsion mode. So where exactly do the wires for both Hall sensors lead to? I would not assume that Romero has the Hall positioned "incorrectly". He may indeed have it that way on purpose. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

BEP	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #60 on: 2011-06-14, 15:34:45 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: wattsup on 2011-06-14, 14:47:14 Look at this. Good catch wattsup. Peterae, Yes. The radial proximity of magnet to sensor means nothing. He may have been forced to install a periphery sensor because the position needed was already taken by a coil. EM realized the 'virtual' (his word) vertical field between magnets and coil sets. To break Lenz between approaching magnet and coil set there should be two more 'virtual' fields. These will not induce current into the coils because they are horizontal and radial. The bucking radial fields between both poles of the rotor magnet and the opposing generator magnet. I think this is why the motor rpm does not drop under load and why it only takes two motor coils.

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #61 on: 2011-06-14, 15:59:07 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Don't forget the large flat surface of the hall senses north and the small triangular edged face of the hall senses south(i hope i have those the right way round) but he places the rotor hall standing up with reference to the rotor triggering magnet, this means the hall will not trigger when directly above the magnet because the hall will neither be sensing a north or south field, only when the magnet approaches will the hall trigger, anyway i will publish the test later on, and at this position it will be the magnet in front that's closest to the drive coils and it will be these that get repulsed away, this is why i am question wattsup diagram saying the rotor hall and coil is working in attraction mode.

BEP	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #62 on: 2011-06-14, 16:03:23 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 15:59:07 Don't forget the large flat surface of the hall senses north and the small triangular edged face of the hall senses south(i hope i have those the right way round) but he places the rotor hall standing up with reference to the rotor triggering magnet, this means the hall will not trigger when directly above the magnet because the hall will neither be sensing a north or south field, only when the magnet approaches will the hall trigger, anyway i will publish the test later on. That would be ideal for sensing the radial field

chrisC	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #63 on: 2011-06-14, 16:11:55 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 15:59:07 Don't forget the large flat surface of the hall senses north and the small triangular edged face of the hall senses south(i hope i have those the right way round) but he places the rotor hall standing up with reference to the rotor triggering magnet, this means the hall will not trigger when directly above the magnet because the hall will neither be sensing a north or south field, only when the magnet approaches will the hall trigger, anyway i will publish the test later on, and at this position it will be the magnet in front that's closest to the drive coils and it will be these that get repulsed away, this is why i am question wattsup diagram saying the rotor hall and coil is working in attraction mode. The position of the Hall sensors in Romero's setup is purely for convenience. The important point is at TDC, the sensors are mutually exclusive. Get pass the sensors. They are not that important in the overall scheme of things. Seemed like all these (head) knowledgeable people who have tried and done grandiose TPU and 'rings of fire' stuff these past few years and still have not produced a shred of O.U is stuck at some lowly level! Open your mind! cheers chrisC

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #64 on: 2011-06-14, 16:19:07 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Quote So where exactly do the wires for both Hall sensors lead to? I would not assume that Romero has the Hall positioned "incorrectly". He may indeed have it that way on purpose. I am not saying his hall is positioned incorrectly, i am saying i think it is positioned to drive in repulsion mode not in Attraction mode as wattsup stated. Each hall connects straight to the PCB driver board which he has 1 for each hall, this is the circuit which uses the TIP42C as the driver transistor, each of these then connect to the coil pair that drives the rotor.

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #65 on: 2011-06-14, 16:43:52 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Quote The position of the Hall sensors in Romero's setup is purely for convenience. The important point is at TDC, the sensors are mutually exclusive. Get pass the sensors. They are not that important in the overall scheme of things. Seemed like all these (head) knowledgeable people who have tried and done grandiose TPU and 'rings of fire' stuff these past few years and still have not produced a shred of O.U is stuck at some lowly level! Open your mind! Chris what are you on about TDC this is miles from how Romero has his setup? The rotor Hall will not even trigger anywhere near TDC at least not from the magnet that's anywhere near the hall sensor, but as i have said before i will have this running tonight and will post the exact firing position.

chrisC	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #66 on: 2011-06-14, 16:49:16 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 16:43:52 Chris what are you on about TDC this is miles from how Romero has his setup? The rotor Hall will not even trigger anywhere near TDC at least not from the magnet that's anywhere near the hall sensor, but as i have said before i will have this running tonight and will post the exact firing position. Peterae: I should have made it clearer, it's the TDC of the Romero small circular magnets (or in my case small rectangular ones) glued to the rim of the rotor. Mutually exclusive firing is important. Good luck with your build. cheers chrisC

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #67 on: 2011-06-14, 16:51:09 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	OK Chris yes that's the easy one to work out, can i ask are you working using Repulsion or Attraction mode, i am trying to find out what everyone is using for their build.

wattsup	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #68 on: 2011-06-14, 16:53:26 »
Hero Member Posts: 520	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 15:17:28 @ wattsup Where did that diagram come from stating one coil repels and the other attracts, was it from Romero directly? No, I just grabbed this image this morning and prepared it before I left for work. I was viewing the Romero video and this just jumped out at me. Listen all, there is no way that a hall sensor placed before a drive, hence it sees the magnet approaching the drive coils can do anything immediately at that same instance but to be in attraction mode. Then for the other hall sensor that is placed at the edge of the wheel at TDC to the other pair of drive coils, there is no way this can be used for anything other then repulsion. One attracts, one repulses. Hmmmmmm. Sounds like a few of my former girlfriends. lol Working out the polarities is a mere technicality. Romero placed those hall sensors through a drilled hole from the top plate, so he had to have previous tests done to know where they should be placed. If you are making a hole for a hall sensor, make the hole elongated to give you some elbow room for finer adjustments. wattsup --------------------------- http://etherimpress.com

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #69 on: 2011-06-14, 16:59:53 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	So the yellow text was already on the frame saying repulsion and attraction and this was directly from Romero?

wattsup	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #70 on: 2011-06-14, 17:12:40 »
Hero Member Posts: 520	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 16:59:53 So the yellow text was already on the frame saying repulsion and attraction and this was directly from Romero? No, none of this is from Romero. It is from me. I grabbed the image, added all the text and posted it like you see it. I do not need Romero to tell me how the natural physics of magnet movement works. Just were the Hall Sensors are placed says it all. wattsup --------------------------- http://etherimpress.com

chrisC	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #71 on: 2011-06-14, 17:24:34 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 16:51:09 OK Chris yes that's the easy one to work out, can i ask are you working using Repulsion or Attraction mode, i am trying to find out what everyone is using for their build. Pete: Here's a pic. of my hall sensor flat on a small board and positioned right TDC below the rectangular magnet. My rotor magnets are all N facing up. Just make sure the other sensor is right between two rotor magnets so they fire mutually exclusive. Then you're OK. cheers chrisC ------------------------ RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device hall_placement.JPG (110.8 kB, 640x478 - viewed 1139 times.)

wattsup	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #72 on: 2011-06-14, 17:37:51 »
Hero Member Posts: 520	But there is something else to this. In the attraction mode, I would pulse the first drive coil of the pair so the pulse starts at the coil exterior winds. This puts the field instantly outside the coil so it can attract the approaching magnet. Then go to the second drive coil pair again from the outside inwards. In the repulsion mode, I would pulse the first drive coil of the pair so the pulse starts at the coil interior at the core itself. This puts the strongest field at a pin-point near the TDC to repulse the magnet away from the drive. Then go to the second drive coil again from the inside. To accomplish the above, you may need to turn your coils around and not just switch wires. I had been trying to explain this ever since this started but @MH kept on insisting I was a dreamer. It is very simple. Nothing in this build endeavor should be permanent until and the facts are known. All you need is a compass and a DC power supply to figure it all out and get the coils oriented properly and connected properly. wattsup Added: I forgot about this. The pulse that starts on a drive coil pair on let's say north side of rotor, then the pulse on the other coil pair should start on the south polarity. Meaning one coil pair receives the pulse from the top coil first while the other drive coil pair receives the pulse from the bottom coil first. This is because when you pulse two coil in series, the second coil will never have the same field strength as the first coil in the pair and in order to keep the motive energy one both polarities equal. Otherwise the rotor may start to wobble. You can test this very easily by using only one drive coil while the second is not mounted but still in series. See how fast you can get the rotor to turn. Then try it by switching the wires around. Then try it by turning the mounted coil to the other side, then again by switching the wires around. Everything you try has to be in fours otherwise you are working in the dark. But for all intents and purposes, guys have to realize that the coil have to ends. Near core end and far core end. Then they have two polarities. Then they have two coils per drive set, all making for known variables. wattsup « Last Edit: 2011-06-14, 18:05:24 by wattsup » --------------------------- http://etherimpress.com

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #73 on: 2011-06-14, 18:05:48 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Thanks for the view Chris, just to say that you are triggering from the opposite side of the hall, this does not mean much really apart from you need your trigger magnets the opposite polarity to what Romero used, but your biggest problem will be the amount of time your hall is on, Romero used very small magnets and therefore the hall will only be on for a very short period thus making the efficiency much higher, also your trigger magnets align with the main rotor magnets so you may get interference from these, Romero was very clever in that he used the main rotor magnets to cancel a proportion of the little magnets field either side of the trigger point, this make the hall on period even smaller, you can tell he must of spent a lot of time building motors to acquire all these little bits of knowledge to put into this motor, i suspect the main rotor hall will be Even craftier. Time to go and test Good luck with your build Chris theres so much to learn here from Romero. EDIT One other thing, the periphery hall is not dead center to the rotor magnet firring position it is positioned just left by almost the width of the coil see picture below you can also see it's position in this aerial view, the top one is the periphery hall and you can easily see it's not dead center

chrisC	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #74 on: 2011-06-14, 18:32:07 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-14, 18:05:48 Thanks for the view Chris, just to say that you are triggering from the opposite side of the hall, this does not mean much really apart from you need your trigger magnets the opposite polarity to what Romero used, but your biggest problem will be the amount of time your hall is on, Romero used very small magnets and therefore the hall will only be on for a very short period thus making the efficiency much higher, also your trigger magnets align with the main rotor magnets so you may get interference from these, Romero was very clever in that he used the main rotor magnets to cancel a proportion of the little magnets field either side of the trigger point, this make the hall on period even smaller, you can tell he must of spent a lot of time building motors to acquire all these little bits of knowledge to put into this motor, i suspect the main rotor hall will be Even craftier. Time to go and test Good luck with your build Chris theres so much to learn here from Romero. EDIT One other thing, the periphery hall is not dead center to the rotor magnet firring position it is positioned just left by almost the width of the coil see picture below you can also see it's position in this aerial view, the top one is the periphery hall and you can easily see it's not dead center you'll find out more as you further along. These are not the important points. cheers chrisC

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