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Author Topic: Romerouk's Muller Replication  (Read 510784 times)
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Ok, a battery in DC-DC converter is very unlikely and I don't see the need for this when they could have been placed anywhere out of camera view in video 3. With regards to the self-runner in vide 2, the video analysis for wires passing through the centre of the table is quite convincing IMO.

I'm waiting in anticipation for the first person to give a credible demonstration of a their replication knocking-out 15V plus on the FWBR output bus with a 12V/5W auto lamp as load.

Hoppy
« Last Edit: 2011-07-10, 14:04:38 by Hoppy »
   
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@chrisC

If you think your little blast does anything but show how stupid you are, then trying to impress me with your globe trotting sue-a-bunker, think again. I am refraining here.

If you can't take the heat whens someone comes on the forums and tells us his wheel turned on its own but who had obviously faked the first two videos, then maybe you need to get your head checked. Hint: It's called insanity.

@all

Thanks to those that have provided some constructive comments. Of course, it is always better to have more heads on this then only one. Taking your comments, I did some more digging and here is what I found.

First of all the wiring diagram I showed in the previous post was to show you how Romero connected his device in Video 3 from what we could see up till now. This diagram would fall in perfectly if he used the DC converter to hide a battery. But one member indicated he did not need to hide it there since there are other places that are hidden from view that he could have used. So taking that as the base idea, I just followed the Wire Xs and as I did in Video 1 and 2, this is what I found.

If you want to know the video time of the frame, just divide the frame number by 30 to get your seconds.

The first image (video3-resistor2.jpg) shows the Red Wire X actually is gong behind the rear drive circuit AND STOPS THERE. I had shown this before continuing further but @ponyt99 was good enough to point out (no pun intended) that they were wires on the floor. The Black Wire X is also going there as shown in my previous post. Historically, Romeros' pattern has been very obvious in that anywhere the Wire Xs go, there is a battery to which they are connected. It would be very easy for Romero to place a 9 vdc or other battery hidden behind the circuit board. You will not see it and thereafter think the device is running on its own. So showing any attempt or discrepancy, given his past actions in Video 1 and 2 that were obvious attempts to fool the viewer and any possible discrepancy in Video 3 means what? That Romero is again up to his old antics. Let's call a spade a spade so the tolerance level here for any funny games should be zero.

Given @WW's concern (Reply #683) that the resistors could be non-coded, the second image (video3-resistor3.jpg) is of the front drive circuit where you can clearly see from this new angle that is not blocked by the red wire, that there is no resistor. Only the fresh and shiny solder points. Actually when I grabbed this image I realized something. This drive coil circuit may not even be working since he never re-connected those two points once he removed the resistors. So it is possible that in Video 3 the rotor wheel only turned with the rear drive coil set. This would be a good tactic to reduce battery consumption if the wheel can turn with only one drive coil pair and maintain a respectable rpm at no load during this less then two minute Video 3.

The third image (video3-resistor4.jpg) is of the back drive circuit where you can see there is no resistor but this time he filled in the open space to connect the two points with a solder weld. That to keep the rear drive circuit on.

But how can one show there is something behind the rear drive circuit when Romero never turned the device around to the other side for us to see. This was why he challenged me to find an outside wire. There were none because he hid his battery behind the circuit. So how to show this? Think. Think. OK.

The fourth image (video3-resistor5.jpg) is of the front drive circuit to show how light passes through all the board holes anywhere there is no component. Notice that the light can pass through even though the background of that image is of the wheel and not a nice white background. This gives you a good idea on what is being blocked from the front and from the back. So how could this help. Well compare it to the rear drive circuit where Romero sent his Wire Xs.

The fifth image (video3-resistor6.jpg) there is no great shot any better then this frame 2522 or at 1 minute and 24 seconds in the standard Video 3. It says it all. No coincidence could explain this discrepancy any other way then by saying "there is something behind the rear circuit board, were by chance my Wire Xs are just hanging around acting dumb and all". And he would continue to say "Oh, by the way, out of the 4 threaded legs I could have chosen to hold in my hand to do the video, I picked the one that kept the rear drive circuit out of view but it was all just by chance and purely unintentional".

Y'a, sure, sure, sure.

Given that the combined number of discrepancies and taking into account all the evidence of Video 1 and 2 all converging around this Video 3, I can only conclude that Romero tricked Video 3 as prescribed here-in. His Wire Xs go behind the rear drive circuit where he has hidden a battery. Some will ask for proof. You don't need any more then what is shown here to understand that Video 3 is a fake. Sooooooooooooooo............when Romero said it was fake, it was fake. When he said build at your risk, build at your risk. When he said he lost his wheel while playing the violin, he still has it and is always playing with it to try and make it work. When he said some bad guys ruffed him up, he broke a toe nail. When he said he will not talk about it anymore, he will not talk about it anymore (except on his web forum). When he says he is now looking for newer ways to make OU, there is no newer way when your first way was faked. There is only your first way just like everyone else here. So I invite Romero to just come clean because the cat is now out of the bag. Then we will talk as equals, and not him pretending he already made an OU device. What a farce this whole thing turns out to be. Just come clean and do it now to not waste anymore time.

CASE CLOSED :'( :'( :'(

@GK

I can now start my next build. Something to show noding around. That's noding, not nosing around. Had enough of that for a good while. Man oh man.

wattsup



---------------------------
   
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@Wattsup

This backlighting behind the driver is indeed suspicious, good detective work.
 
The smoking gun would be to find a shot in other videos where light does pass clear through the holes in that particular driver board in the same area. I checked the other two videos, and it's hard to find a shot that is not just showing the holes themselves, and also backlit. However, alternatively, one can find many shots of the backside of that board in video #1, and there's no obvious anything there to cause a light blockage in the same place later in #3. So it seems probable you are correct; as it is obvious there's a lighting issue with clear passage through that board in #3. Dimensions wise, given the standoff from the heatsink (1/2" to 3/4"?) and where one does note the blockage, any 9 volt there would I think have to be long dimension away from viewer perhaps, perhaps supported in part by the heat sink. Lengthwise placed, it's a tight positioning? Standing, can't be easily, with the heatsink in place?
 
A question is, could a stack of 4 x CR2032 3.3v lithium button cells also work long enough to drive this for 1.5 minutes? The other area not shown, where a battery could be, is the rear bottom of the chassis, always blocked from view by rotor. A plain 9v battery could be velcro'ed there, or one could go about replacing 2 or 3 coils each on the underside of the rotor, with a stack of button cells.

Just the framing and videography of these things has always made me wonder, it's artificially tight in all of them, but what has continued to bother me is this...wouldn't someone claiming to have an OU self runner which lit a light bulb in the prior two videos, also -happily- and quite logically also show that being lit too in the walking model? One could not though if it was battery run, and battery power was limited. He said this motor was tuned to a 25 watt load, 20 of which was the bulb? No bulb makes the claimed need for tuning notion suspect. He also has said as you noted, "was a big fake", and don't build it, "world will be the same".

Whatta world, to be the same.

Robert (AG)
   
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Dimensions wise, given the standoff from the heatsink (1/2" to 3/4"?) and where one does note the blockage, any 9 volt there would I think have to be long dimension away from viewer perhaps, perhaps supported in part by the heat sink. Lengthwise placed, it's a tight positioning? Standing, can't be easily, with the heatsink in place? 

@Wattsup

I'm on board for the battery theory as to #3, given the evident obstruction/blackout behind the driver board as pointed out. However...a 9v seems problematic potentially.

A TIP120 will fit 5x (measuring using its width) along the length of a 9v battery, and so in my image program, if laying the battery across the back lengthwise, I see it extending another transistor's width beyond the blackout. So I don't see where there's room there, unless it is standing, back of the heatsink.

However, perhaps there's another explanation...a single model, or pair of the following? 3LF22...4.5v DIM: 1.25" x 1.12" x 0.75"  About 3 TIP 120's suffice here, so there's plenty of room to obscure one of these. They are alkaline (would run things for 1.3 minutes, you'd think)...at 4.5 volts, or 9 volts if in pair, series. (better to explain LED on DC Converter, but who knows). This is a common computer battery (Apple, typically).
 
AG
   
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@ArtistGuy

Yes, I know that showing the back is important as the final nail but actually I was hoping someone else would recommend it, so thanks. Shows you are thinking right.

Here are the back shots of both the front and rear drive circuits as seen in Video 1. Above and beyond this, since both show no major obstructions and since only in Video 3 the front circuit is completely transparent, there is then no excuse for the rear circuit to not be as transparent especially when in Video 3 the background of the rear circuit was white and the background of the front circuit was the dimmer top plate.

Regarding the choice of battery, that is not really important here. The only thing that is required is to show that there is a greater then 9 in 10 chance of willful deceit. Then Romeros' Videos 1 and 2 take care of the other 1 in 10. This goose is cooked.

Any more time spent on digging any further is simply a waste of time and I personally want to get back to my bench. But if guys are willing to work their wheels in new ways and not try to figure out how Romero made his wheel "supposedly work", then for me, this effort was worth the time. I also wanted to clear the names of Muller and gang since having this device wrongly placed in the midst of those greater men would have been a true insult to them.

wattsup



---------------------------
   
Group: Guest
@chrisC

If you think your little blast does anything but show how stupid you are, then trying to impress me ...
wattsup


@Wattsup.  You're way over yourself. Impressing you? That would be like a mouse trying to impress an elephant for size. hahaha. Get over it. Tracing video connections  isn't exactly rocket science and  especially when you're still doing such a lousy job. Never mind. some mothers do have them.

cheers
chrisC
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Stick to the "technical" guys.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

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tExB=qr
If this device actually worked, and Romero was made to destroy it or someone seized it, why is he building something different now?
   
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If this device actually worked, and Romero was made to destroy it or someone seized it, why is he building something different now?

@Grumpy
I think if you have followed much of the entire 280 pages of the RomeroUK thread, particularly the answers to Wattsup's accusation here (Post #11): http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=profile;u=13854;area=showposts;start=0 ,
you would have perhaps understood why he discontinued the electro-mechanical wheel design. My understanding was that he was working with someone else and the final pieces of the truth of how this structure worked was not his own to disclose completely and we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

If you have also followed closely, this design is not straightforward, there are at least half a dozen critical pieces or tricks that must be done correctly to overcome the normal impediments found in these normal magnetic wheel technology. If I was Romero, as much as I had wanted to share, I would certainly be pissed off by some of these 'know it all people' and venomous low ability video sleuths hell bent to destroy my integrity. Wouldn't you? He left enough information for the smarter ones to eventually solve. The dumb asses will still continue to cry "Fake!".

As to why he is starting on a new wheel design, again, if you have followed closely, this new design is different. More like the new generation of Muller and if I may add, much less dependent on mechanical adjustments since he already understood the O.U principles involved. It would not be progress if he had continued tweaking his old mechanical design. Common sense IMO.

cheers
chrisC

   

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tExB=qr
Magnacoaster also moved away from a rotational design to a non-moving one.  The same effect is documented by Magnacoaster's and Energia Celeste's patents, but no one bothers to explore it.  Muller also mentioned a magnetic field that was made much stronger than normal, as did Ev Grey.

EDIT:
IF this same effect exist in the rotational Romero/Muller design, then you will be able to find it with a pulsed coil rather than a mechanically moving one.  Romero probably has found this by this time.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Magnacoaster also moved away from a rotational design to a non-moving one.  The same effect is documented by Magnacoaster's and Energia Celeste's patents, but no one bothers to explore it.  Muller also mentioned a magnetic field that was made much stronger than normal, as did Ev Grey.

EDIT:
IF this same effect exist in the rotational Romero/Muller design, then you will be able to find it with a pulsed coil rather than a mechanically moving one.  Romero probably has found this by this time.


I've asked the question of Romero regarding a SS version, and he advised that it is much more difficult, which is why he continues along the "wheel" lines for now.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

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tExB=qr
Romero,

Have you found the means to magnify a magnetic field?
   

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I've asked the question of Romero regarding a SS version, and he advised that it is much more difficult, which is why he continues along the "wheel" lines for now.

.99

It is easy to see the effect, but harder to prove to prove it and to do something with it.  I was just curious if Romero found it or not.
   

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tExB=qr
It is easy to see the effect, but harder to prove to prove it and to do something with it.  I was just curious if Romero found it or not.

As an alternative, Romero may have noticed that under certain circumstances, magnetic fields do not fall off with the cube of the distance, indicating that the field density is somehow "altered".
   
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@ wattsup

I watched Romero's videos again, all 3.


1) no sign of fakery. Input amps would go up to 3 amps when load is on, if battery was source and input side somehow connected to output side.

2) no sign of fakery. WiresX looks ok to me.

3) no sign of fakery. However, a spinning rotor is no proof of OU.  Also, there are no hidden wires coming from overhead, you must be seeing things or I'm blind  :)

Why do you get excited about the controller boards?  Does a modification mean fakery to you? BTW, the "hole" your seeing is shiny solder joint.

This dynamo appears quite real to me, and if there was any fakery it would have to be more subtle than what you have proposed so far.




EM
   

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Romero,


Was there any indication of a DC bias in your output? 

Was the scope trace move down to the centerline of the scope in the scope trace picture that you posted?

DC bias where it shouldn't be is indicative of possible gain.
   
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@ wattsup

I watched Romero's videos again, all 3.


1) no sign of fakery. Input amps would go up to 3 amps when load is on, if battery was source and input side somehow connected to output side.

2) no sign of fakery. WiresX looks ok to me.

3) no sign of fakery. However, a spinning rotor is no proof of OU.  Also, there are no hidden wires coming from overhead, you must be seeing things or I'm blind  :)

Why do you get excited about the controller boards?  Does a modification mean fakery to you? BTW, the "hole" your seeing is shiny solder joint.

This dynamo appears quite real to me, and if there was any fakery it would have to be more subtle than what you have proposed so far.


EM

Counterpoint:

1) One would think that video #1 was the safest from being contested, but there are those who see clear problems.

 http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg292191#msg292191

Also:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg289518#msg289518
 
2) The Wire X's do unfortunately go into the table in video #2, it is clear that they do. I do not understand the animosity which has arisen from anyone pointing this out. Ad hominem arguments are offered freely and illogically, but the wires are not explained logically as to why they are entering the hole there. Which they are.  :(

3) The hole mentioned (adjacent to the blocked area) in video #3 is not a shiny solder joint, but an actual hole...it's part of the PCB and visible in many shots. The hole is not in contention, only that area seen to the right of it (parts side), where the existing holes are blocked from backlighting, unlike in other views.

Regards,

Robert (AG)
   
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Just so you guys don't miss it!  

I looked at the video and observed those wires claimed by wattsup to go "into a hole" and to me they are not.   The frame grab he posted shows the wires going into the bolt, because of an OPTICAL ILLUSION.  

LIGHT FROM THE WIRES IS REFRACTED BY THE BOTTOM TRANSPARENT PLASTIC DISK,  AND MAKES THE WIRES APPEAR TO GO INTO THE BOLT, OR A HOLE.      


This is simply the difference between people that undersand physics and those that don't and think they are great detectives.

Like I said,  if he faked it he would have done it in a more camuflaged way.  How about hiding little lithium batteries under the magnets, because there is a small space there including the space inside the washers.  Or how about coupling magneticaly to the motor with a coil under the table?  Or how about using a thin wire you can't see in the videos to bypass the input ampmeter or connect through a hole in the table?   etc...    Just drop this "wireX going in the hole" nonsence, its just silly and childish.

EM
   

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Just so you guys don't miss it!  

I looked at the video and observed those wires claimed by wattsup to go "into a hole" and to me they are not.   The frame grab he posted shows the wires going into the bolt, because of an OPTICAL ILLUSION.  

LIGHT FROM THE WIRES IS REFRACTED BY THE BOTTOM TRANSPARENT PLASTIC DISK,  AND MAKES THE WIRES APPEAR TO GO INTO THE BOLT, OR A HOLE.      


This is simply the difference between people that undersand physics and those that don't and think they are great detectives.

Like I said,  if he faked it he would have done it in a more camuflaged way.  How about hiding little lithium batteries under the magnets, because there is a small space there including the space inside the washers.  Or how about coupling magneticaly to the motor with a coil under the table?  Or how about using a thin wire you can't see in the videos to bypass the input ampmeter or connect through a hole in the table?   etc...    Just drop this "wireX going in the hole" nonsence, its just silly and childish.

EM

So, if the Romero Device runs with gain, is this gain evident in the scope trace that he posted?
   
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Just so you guys don't miss it!  

I looked at the video and observed those wires claimed by wattsup to go "into a hole" and to me they are not.   The frame grab he posted shows the wires going into the bolt, because of an OPTICAL ILLUSION.  

LIGHT FROM THE WIRES IS REFRACTED BY THE BOTTOM TRANSPARENT PLASTIC DISK,  AND MAKES THE WIRES APPEAR TO GO INTO THE BOLT, OR A HOLE.      


This is simply the difference between people that undersand physics and those that don't and think they are great detectives.

Like I said,  if he faked it he would have done it in a more camuflaged way.  How about hiding little lithium batteries under the magnets, because there is a small space there including the space inside the washers.  Or how about coupling magneticaly to the motor with a coil under the table?  Or how about using a thin wire you can't see in the videos to bypass the input ampmeter or connect through a hole in the table?   etc...    Just drop this "wireX going in the hole" nonsence, its just silly and childish.

EM

@EM
I agree with you. When people are not qualified in technical ability, they try to magnify their worth often by writing lots of words and showing lots of 'must be true' pic. connections as if people are more likely to believe them. As you've said before, a smarter person would have done the trick much easier by hiding tiny high energy ion batteries out of sight.

As RomeroUK already said in his reply, and I quote below:

2) In your second video where you remove the battery from the table top, you have two wires, a red and a black wire that are behind the unit going down inside the center opening of the table? Yes or No?
= No, those wires are going to the bottom coil..
The wires going to the bottom coil could be a clue to one of Romero's O.U tricks.

Why do we call people idiots? Because they continue to do the same idiotic things over and over again!

cheers
chrisC

   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
The wires going to the bottom coil could be a clue to one of Romero's O.U tricks.

Why do we call people idiots? Because they continue to do the same idiotic things over and over again!

cheers
chrisC

In this particular case, is the bottom coil a drive or generator coil?

Cool it with the harsh language guys.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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In this particular case, is the bottom coil a drive or generator coil?

Cool it with the harsh language guys.

.99

@99
I believe it is the bottom coil of the driver and I also believe the  stranded litz of the driver coil is connected with different strands (more than 2 nodes).

cheers
chrisC
   
Group: Guest
Let us assume  Romerouk's device is real,then who would benefit
 if the members here never got the information,follow the money$$$.Optical illusions happen
this happens with SM's tpu video's. My theory is,Romerouk posts the information file,he lists personel information(bad mistake),a  member close
to him contacts mullers daughter thru the muller's web site,tells her innocently that Romerouk has built a duplicate of
her fathers device and its a self runner.Mullers daughter realizes they don't have a self runner and its her fathers work
so it belongs to her father and her.They (muller team)are responsible for what I can only describe as a high tech crack pot device
looks like it came out of a physics lab,cool looking but high tech snake oil,worthless can not be looped.I believe Romerouk held back some information
that is needed to make this work.The original muller device is a crack pot device and can't be looped.
Mullers daughter or her people are the primary suspect's

that visited Romerouk.Romerouk needs to come clean totally as to who visited him,and what is the missing part
needed to make this device work.I suspect something to do with the pickup coils.
When people get frustrated they decend into sillyness this happened with SM's tpu and is happening
with this device.There is no chance anyone will create a self runner without the missing information,and in the end it will be said it was a
 fraud,then when another device that shows up
thats real ,everbody will say theres another fraud ,fake device I'm not wasting my time or money  building it.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
cheappower2012,

I can't really disagree with what you said.

My understanding is that it is not the Muller group. The group is apparently unknown, but most likely in the UK.

The secret is in the coils is what I've been told.. One other secret I'm fairly certain of, is the interaction of the IK from the drives coils and that generated by the gen coils. Remember the unusual sharp transition and missing neg pulse?

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Group: Guest
@poynt99
The problem with this whole situation
is without the missing information no one will be able to build a self runner.
If a company or group has that information they will try to get $$$,it is also possible
thats its a government agency
front,either way its history.Any real free energy device
is a giganic threat to all sources of energy.No one knows what will happen when a real free
energy device is
introduced ,my guess is at first an ecconomic disaster,companies go broke solar,windmills,ects,
oil ,natural gas,coal market crashes
middle east explodes.When you ring a coil it has a slow decreasing  pattern,when you short a
 part of the coil and ring it there is
 a bunching up of the pattern.A lot of people have built Romerouks device exactly,so it has
 to be in the pick up coils.A few people have tried connecting the ends of the litz wire
to increase the effective number of coil windings,problem is the video's do not show that,some have

tried adding components,also the video's do not show added components.The video waveform
does give clues however it is not known if he loaded the circuit or not.My guess on how this
 works is
like this ,when you load the circuit,when its in an overunity mode,the duty cycle increases
transfering energy from an unknown source to the coil,greater on time ,greater power,less time
less power,the duty cycle varies with the load applied.

My guess is that theres a small separate winding shorted on each coil, or a small portion of the winding is shorted ,this
 causes a damped ringing.This follows because Romerouk
built units and shorted the coil,before he built the muller device,
in this matter the shorting is automatic.To be perfectly clear you can not under any
conditions defeat the laws of physics,it requires an external energy source,be it unknown or known(fake)
.
   
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