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OverUnity Research > Motors > Muller Generator > Romerouk's Muller Replication
2024-11-27, 00:36:20
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Author Topic: Romerouk's Muller Replication  (Read 510802 times)
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img  EMdevices
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #625 on: 2011-07-05, 20:03:14 »
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Romero has a new website where he is posting:      www.underservice.org


He referred me to his website to see examples of his CRT waveforms from various devices.  You might want to browse his website and see some of the interesting waveforms.

Anyway, here's a scope shot that shows his CRT is aligned properly.

EM


PS   I added the second picture showing an upward tilt in one of Romero's waveforms.  Notice how linear it is, no rotor modulation here, (his posting has the text:  "RG",  is this an abbreviation for "Romero Generator"  ?)   I'm not sure what device produced this waveform, but the upward tilt is quite interesting, if it’s not something obvious like 50 Hz AC.
« Last Edit: 2011-07-05, 22:00:27 by EMdevices »
   
img  poynt99
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #626 on: 2011-07-05, 23:03:29 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
There are quite a few scope shots there EM, and only 2 appear to have a level trace. Maybe he does have the scope quite close to the wheel when doing these tests, and the mag field is causing the trace rotation. It is definitely there in almost every shot.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #627 on: 2011-07-05, 23:16:06 »
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  This video appears to show a self-running Motor-Generator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH-1rjKbdEM&feature=feedu

After a while, the experimenter connects to a battery and shows that the battery voltage is going UP rather quickly.  OK -- is this a self-runner?  or a case of "battery relaxation"? 
Note that there is a circuit diagram... and this text:

Quote
Uploaded by Mopozco on Jul 2, 2011

one driving (motor) bedini coil and five generating (generator) coils to BR and Cap and Its' following pulse discharge by Reed Switch to battery; the same time a bemf pulses helping to charge bttry and run motor for hours...

He notes, "and run motor for hours..." -- would it not run indefinitely if self-charging?  What do you think is going on here?

--Thanks for the URL, EMDevices.
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #628 on: 2011-07-06, 00:58:56 »
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PhysicsProf,

Instantaneous battery voltage measurements (charging pulses) mean practically nothing. He may show a steady increase in battery voltage but that doesn't indicate how much energy is stored in the battery.

I suspect if his video continued to where he disconnects the battery from the device the battery voltage would quickly drop to a point lower than it was before he powered the motor.

Actually, it is more than a suspicion  :)
   
img  EMdevices
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #629 on: 2011-07-06, 01:34:24 »
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He confimed that the dynamo was closer than one meter from the oscilloscope when he took that snapshot.  I think he agrees with me that it's the magnetic fields of the dynamo that affect the CRT oscilloscope.

EM
   
img  penno64
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #630 on: 2011-07-06, 04:50:11 »
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@all, I also posted this over at OU.

did anyone else find it strange that, at around 5:30 in the selfrunning video (20 minute), Romero
measures the DC at the switch - 15.07 volts.

at 6:20, he switches the DMM to AC volts, and tries, without success, to measure the AC coming
into the bridge rectifier.

The 64,000 dollar question -

    why is he unable to get any reading on the DMM ?

I must admit, he fumbles and falters, and even seems surprised and confused (noted by his
changing of probe location) as to why he sees no AC.

Food for thought.

I gotta say. This has been severly disheartning but much has been learned.

Penno
   
img  poynt99
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #631 on: 2011-07-06, 05:11:39 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I'm on a slow connection right now in Slave Lake, so I can't watch the videos to have a look for myself.

Hey, watch what you say penno, or I might have to shrink your text like this....   :P LOL

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #632 on: 2011-07-07, 00:06:00 »

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tExB=qr
Quote from: penno64 on 2011-07-06, 04:50:11
The 64,000 dollar question -

    why is he unable to get any reading on the DMM ?

Find out if his meter will measure voltage-biased AC.
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #633 on: 2011-07-07, 03:10:25 »
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Quote from: penno64 on 2011-07-06, 04:50:11
did anyone else find it strange that, at around 5:30 in the selfrunning video (20 minute), Romero
measures the DC at the switch - 15.07 volts.

No.

Quote
at 6:20, he switches the DMM to AC volts, and tries, without success, to measure the AC coming
into the bridge rectifier.

The 64,000 dollar question -

    why is he unable to get any reading on the DMM ?

I will accept cash or a bank cashier's check  :)

He does fumble a bit. I suspected he didn't really understand what he produced. His other web forum (with the multitude of different waveforms) makes me think he does understand far better than most would.

I ask, 'why would he expect to see an AC component while the coils were under load and the motor was turning?'. Obviously, most wouldn't ask this question.

An easy and quick answer would be that his meter wasn't capable of the frequencies involved or he was simply surprised he blew a bridge. These would not be my answers.
   
img  poynt99
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #634 on: 2011-07-07, 03:20:31 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: penno64 on 2011-07-06, 04:50:11
@all, I also posted this over at OU.

did anyone else find it strange that, at around 5:30 in the selfrunning video (20 minute), Romero
measures the DC at the switch - 15.07 volts.

at 6:20, he switches the DMM to AC volts, and tries, without success, to measure the AC coming
into the bridge rectifier.

The 64,000 dollar question -

    why is he unable to get any reading on the DMM ?


Penno
I've now watched it, and all I can say is perhaps he is actually measuring on the output (DC) side by mistake, or his leads are not making a good connection, or there is no AC there.  :o

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  penno64
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #635 on: 2011-07-07, 03:50:11 »
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Thanks for that.

Penno
   
img  poynt99
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #636 on: 2011-07-07, 04:35:27 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-07-07, 03:10:25
An easy and quick answer would be that his meter wasn't capable of the frequencies involved or he was simply surprised he blew a bridge. These would not be my answers.
Most meters are capable (-3dB) up to at least a few kHz. We're dealing with probably less than 300Hz here. Also, a reading of absolutely zero would indicate the frequency was 100 times or so out of range of the meter.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #637 on: 2011-07-07, 10:53:28 »

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Buy me some coffee
There is no way his cap is 47000uF, my 47000uF BHC cap just arrived and it's at least twice the diameter.
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #638 on: 2011-07-07, 12:13:19 »
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Quote from: Peterae on 2011-07-07, 10:53:28
There is no way his cap is 47000uF, my 47000uF BHC cap just arrived and it's at least twice the diameter.

I don't know the details but the dimensions of a cap can vary quite a bit, including multiples of the original diameter.

This is true even when the voltage and capacity are matched.
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #639 on: 2011-07-07, 13:05:11 »

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Buy me some coffee
Maybe so WW it's the same make and voltage though
   
img  poynt99
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #640 on: 2011-07-07, 13:23:04 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I haven't looked at the cap closely, was it clearly labeled with the value and voltage?

If the one you received is bigger, one possibility is perhaps the manufacturer changed their design? It's a long shot I know, but possible.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #641 on: 2011-07-07, 13:47:51 »

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The camera did zoom in but the value was not 100% clear, Romero himself also said it was 47000uF

I think it maybe 4700uF instead of 47000uF, i guess there could be reasons why the manufacturer made them larger it just seems strange that the same value and working voltage could be double the size.If mine is double the diameter that's a lot more than 2 times the internal surface area to house the capacitor electrodes and electrolyte.
   
img  penno64
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #642 on: 2011-07-07, 13:56:58 »
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Guys,

If you have 5 minutes to spare, view this

http://www.youtube.com/user/lyudkavsk

It was in minoly's favourites on his yt channel
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #643 on: 2011-07-07, 15:42:09 »
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penno64,

He is using a DC ammeter to measure current. Just because the output of the generator is pulsed DC doesn't mean the circuit current is DC.

His circuit is highly reactive so, as the scope shows, the circuit current is AC. The meter will only show an average, which would be at or near zero.

--

In effect - he built a resonant transformer and is using the wrong equipment to measure current.
   
img  e2matrix
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #644 on: 2011-07-07, 16:25:22 »
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Quote from: Peterae on 2011-07-07, 10:53:28
There is no way his cap is 47000uF, my 47000uF BHC cap just arrived and it's at least twice the diameter.

I got one of same values but it's about the same diameter and about half the length.  Newer caps tend to be smaller in some cases.  Also I thought someone had a HD zoom on the cap that confirmed the values.  I also can't see any reason he would lie about it or not have given a correct value.  While he may have slipped on some parameters where he had changed values a lot of times I'm guessing he got this one right. 
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #645 on: 2011-07-07, 16:39:39 »

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Buy me some coffee
I appreciate that e2 but my cap is brand new and the same manufacturer, same uf and voltage yet a lot bigger than Rom's
   
img  ArtistGuy
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #646 on: 2011-07-07, 18:13:29 »
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Quote from: Peterae on 2011-07-07, 16:39:39
I appreciate that e2 but my cap is brand new and the same manufacturer, same uf and voltage yet a lot bigger than Rom's

I got the exact same model ( ebay, via Istanbul ) It's a huge beast, as big as the AC one in my heat pump. Of all the items I ordered for the build, this one took the longest to arrive, but then they waited 10 days just to ship it.

I just re-checked the video... at 26 seconds (self runner, #2) he rolls it across the camera..it is very hard to make out but it's indeed a 47000uf it would seem. Can't make it out in one frame, have to scroll through 3 or 4 to get all the aspects (uf, then the 3 zeros, then what looks like a 7 then a 4)

If you look at the frames around this one, to either side, it's clearer, but no one grab can show it ideally. Tried here, added some options for easier viewing to either side of the dark light.
 
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #647 on: 2011-07-07, 21:00:35 »

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Buy me some coffee
Cheers for checking AG

Yeah this one came from the same place and took quiet a while to come  >:( and feels very light, it feels like theres a small cap soldered to the terminals inside LOL, the only other thing i had noticed with Rom's cap is that the value seems to be printed on a sticky label, when i get some time i must try hunting for datasheets to see if they have ever made a small version of the 47000uF cap.

Peter
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #648 on: 2011-07-07, 21:08:19 »
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Peterae,

Romero may have had an ALS10 series. The lower voltage types were used large computer server power supplies. These were classified as 'compact'.

Compared to the ALS20 series they were smaller.
   
img  ArtistGuy
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #649 on: 2011-07-07, 21:31:20 »
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It is light, isn't it? My capacitor's plastic covering seems a little suspect, or maybe it was a second...there are linear cracks, like someone took an X-acto blade and ran it from top to bottom light enough to score but not cut, and the cutout on capacitor bottom is jagged and wonky. 
 
Per WaveWatcher's mention of ALS10, I googled on that size and found the following.

http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/archive/bhccat.pdf
http://www.thlaudio.com/bhcapitme.htm


The PDF has a load of info.

Below's an item on ebay which looks like R-uk's size, but it's 470uf, and 450v. It also has what looks like the sticky label. I posted a screenshot of this cap since this link will be void later and someone might wish to know what it showed, hope that is alright.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1pc-BHC-ALS30A-Electrolytic-capacitor-470uf-450V-new-/220613612777#ht_868wt_885
   
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