PopularFX
Home Help Search Login Register
Welcome,Guest. Please login or register.
2024-11-26, 23:25:37
News: If you have a suggestion or need for a new board title, please PM the Admins.
Please remember to keep topics and posts of the FE or casual nature. :)

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 ... 37
Author Topic: Romerouk's Muller Replication  (Read 510715 times)

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
maybe he just had the scope not adjusted correctly and the pulse train went down hill, i cannot remember the name but the old scope i used had a level adjustment for the x axis. any other inaccuracies between each pulse would be magnet/coil imperfections.
   

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3217
It's not as complicated as it may seem...
maybe he just had the scope not adjusted correctly and the pulse train went down hill, i cannot remember the name but the old scope i used had a level adjustment for the x axis. any other inaccuracies between each pulse would be magnet/coil imperfections.

I am sure that is precisely what it is. My old Hitachi has the same adjustment available. It's called "tilt" or some such thing.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
maybe he just had the scope not adjusted correctly and the pulse train went down hill, i cannot remember the name but the old scope i used had a level adjustment for the x axis. any other inaccuracies between each pulse would be magnet/coil imperfections.

It is not tilted dammit!

What about that scope shot, would make someone take notice?

Where are Ion and WW, the "tube guys", at?
   

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3217
It's not as complicated as it may seem...
It is not tilted dammit!

What about that scope shot, would make someone take notice?

Where are Ion and WW, the "tube guys", at?

It's tilted Grumps. After looking at and using analog scopes for 26 years, I have a pretty good idea what a tilted scope trace looks like, and that is most definitely one.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
from an oscilloscope users guide

Quote
Trace Rotation Control. The earth’smagnetic field changes from one location to the next which may affect the trace tilt.Oscilloscopes have a trace rotation control that can be used to compensate for the earth's magnetic field and adjust the trace to a perfectly horizontal position. This control is often a screwdriver-type adjustment.

There we go we have now diagnosed his faulty oscilloscope for him  ;D
   
Group: Guest
Just keep in mind that what we see as tilt on that shot could also be a lower frequency additional AC or variation of a base DC signal being modulated by the waves we see.

If we have a video of the scope this would be apparent. If it was tilt that same video would show it as the pic shows it.

In addition.... any nearby strong magnetic dipole could cause tilt. This would not be limited to the Magnacoaster setup he may have had nearby. It can also be caused by an apparent magnetic vortex ( or electrostatic ) with the right strength and proximity.

So, I don't think we nailed a scope problem for him. The tilt can still be another puzzle piece.
 
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
It's tilted Grumps. After looking at and using analog scopes for 26 years, I have a pretty good idea what a tilted scope trace looks like, and that is most definitely one.

Tilted my Arse!  I'll give Romero enough credit to know when his scope trace really is tilted and how to fix that little problem.

Think out of the box, my dear friends, way out of the box.

If you were an entity who's purpose is to supress free energy, what curious aspect of that scope trace would catch your attention and force you to take action?


Did Romero show his scope settings as well, or just the trace?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just keep in mind that what we see as tilt on that shot could also be a lower frequency additional AC or variation of a base DC signal being modulated by the waves we see.

If we have a video of the scope this would be apparent. If it was tilt that same video would show it as the pic shows it.

In addition.... any nearby strong magnetic dipole could cause tilt. This would not be limited to the Magnacoaster setup he may have had nearby. It can also be caused by an apparent magnetic vortex ( or electrostatic ) with the right strength and proximity.

So, I don't think we nailed a scope problem for him. The tilt can still be another puzzle piece.
   
Group: Guest
Thanks EM.

Here are Ben's (k4zep) thoughts on point 6)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg292156#msg292156

Also, his findings agree with my assertion that the output voltage (15VDC) seems high for the RPM.

.99

Don't lean too much that way just yet.

The FWBR will inject 2 X diode voltage drop on each half cycle - 1.4V.

In order to show a peak of 15V the drive AC voltage only needs to be 15 - 1.4 - the gain in voltage found in the usage of a FWBR.

So the average zero to peak voltage before the FWBR only needs to be ...

2Vp / sqrt of 2 minus the diode voltage drop (here divided by 2 since he has paralleled the bridge diodes with outside diodes) minus any peak voltage seen added by the additional diode junction capacitance.

So... the coil pair output could be around 10 - 11V.

There is another reason the voltage from the coils could be higher but I'll confirm that with a bench test to see if it might apply here before loosing my 'voice of reason' status  ;D

EDIT>>>

Oh!, there is another reason to see less voltage but may not apply due to frequency & rise-time. This is where the diode does not immediately 'turn-on'. They aren't ON, even in the forward direction until voltage is applied. This can be a big voltage loss in low voltage power supplies.
   

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3217
It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Think as you wish guys but imo you're reading far more into the trace rotation issue than what is really there. Sometimes things really are what they appear to be, and in this case, it's obviously a scope trace rotation pot that needs adjusting. But what does it matter anyway?

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3217
It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Just keep in mind that what we see as tilt on that shot could also be a lower frequency additional AC or variation of a base DC signal being modulated by the waves we see.

If we have a video of the scope this would be apparent. If it was tilt that same video would show it as the pic shows it.

In addition.... any nearby strong magnetic dipole could cause tilt. This would not be limited to the Magnacoaster setup he may have had nearby. It can also be caused by an apparent magnetic vortex ( or electrostatic ) with the right strength and proximity.

So, I don't think we nailed a scope problem for him. The tilt can still be another puzzle piece.
 

It could be many things, but the most obvious and most likely explanation, is that the scope trace rotation is in need of adjustment.

Just to put the lower frequency modulation question into perspective, assuming the RPM=1500, that amounts to 25 rots per second, and since there are 8 or 9 magnets per rotation, that puts us on the order of 800Hz try 225Hz. So, are you seriously thinking that there could be some few Hz signal modulating that wave form?  C.C

.99

EDIT: corrected frequency
« Last Edit: 2011-06-23, 00:31:19 by poynt99 »


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
It could be many things, but the most obvious and most likely explanation, is that the scope trace rotation is in need of adjustment.

Just to put the lower frequency modulation question into perspective, assuming the RPM=1500, that amounts to 25 rots per second, and since there are 8 or 9 magnets per rotation, that puts us on the order of 800Hz. So, are you seriously thinking that there could be some few Hz signal modulating that wave form?  C.C

.99

Can you determine the progression caused by the difference in coil number and magnet number.

If the scope trace showed "what to look for", would it matter then?
   

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3217
It's not as complicated as it may seem...
The FWBR will inject 2 X diode voltage drop on each half cycle - 1.4V.

In order to show a peak of 15V the drive AC voltage only needs to be 15 - 1.4 - the gain in voltage found in the usage of a FWBR.

 :o

Please give me the part number for that magic FWBR WW, I've got to have one!

1kHz sine wave
Bridge formed with 1N4007
output cap= 100u
output load = 1k

AC input voltage required to yield 15VDC on output = 16.7Vp


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3217
It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Can you determine the progression caused by the difference in coil number and magnet number.
No, but if someone offered you $1M if you chose the correct answer, scope trace rotation or "other", which would you seriously pick?

Quote
If the scope trace showed "what to look for", would it matter then?
I did not say the scope trace was of no value. Peter and I are simply saying "don't get hung up on the fact the the trace is not horizontal; it's most likely a scope issue as noted".

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Group: Guest
:o

Please give me the part number for that magic FWBR WW, I've got to have one!

1kHz sine wave
Bridge formed with 1N4007
output cap= 100u
output load = 1k

AC input voltage required to yield 15VDC on output = 16.7Vp

I don't care much for Wiki but try this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier#Rectifier_output_smoothing

The very old rule of thumb for FW tube rectifiers in a bridge configuration is 1.4 X the P-P input will be the peak of the ripple on the first cap in the filter.

Notice: I didn't say there was a power gain. There isn't.

The only time I've had that ROT fail is when the rectifiers aren't chosen correctly for the application.


BTW:

I agree with you on the scope trace. I don't think the visible tilt is anything to hang your hat on.
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
it's modulated


EDIT:
(actually double modulated, but that is harder to see with such a limited trace)

If the trace is "crooked" then the double mod goes away, but the trace is still modulated at least once.

The Billion Dallar Question is:  What is modulating this signal?
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
Here I added a curved line to show the modulation better:

   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
scope traces from Magnacoaster Patent also show voltage bias modulation:

   
Group: Guest
Grumpy,

You do realize that much of that can be intentional or non-intentional stator magnet adjustments?

As far as what is being called the 'tilt' - I'm more inclined to think it is a snapshot of the rotor wobble over a maladjusted scope or rotating fields of some sort.

I hope to have some postable proof on my radial field idea but the only time I seem to have nowadays is when the boss isn't looking.
 
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
Grumpy,

You do realize that much of that can be intentional or non-intentional stator magnet adjustments?

As far as what is being called the 'tilt' - I'm more inclined to think it is a snapshot of the rotor wobble over a maladjusted scope or rotating fields of some sort.

I hope to have some postable proof on my radial field idea but the only time I seem to have nowadays is when the boss isn't looking.
 

I found it curious that both the RUK device and Magnacoaster appear to have similar modulation, and a claim of OU along with it.   I would like to know if the modulation is steady or changes with time...hmm...it may be that when the rotor rotation and the rotation of this modulation source coincide that you see gain.

WW: I have not overlooked the peripheral Hall trigger magnets - they are radial.
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 805
Grumps,  

you are awesome dude!    I can't belive I did not notice the rotor modulation in those flat spots, thank you, thank you !


Now I feel better,  we can clearly see the rotor modulation, which corresponds with 8 pulse cycles, and each cycle has two pulses, one postive and one negative.   Remember  8 magnets fly past a coil per revolution and create a pulse pair, and if the rotor is warped or the magnetic field is not uniform around the rotor,  it will show up with a periodicity of 8 cycles of the pulse train.

EM
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1593
Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Is this modulation good or bad?
As was previously stated 'Magnacoaster switched to a non mechanical version after he found the process using a rotor'.

And a partridge in a pear tree.. ;D


---------------------------
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
Grumps,  

you are awesome dude!    I can't belive I did not notice the rotor modulation in those flat spots, thank you, thank you !


Now I feel better,  we can clearly see the rotor modulation, which corresponds with 8 pulse cycles, and each cycle has two pulses, one postive and one negative.   Remember  8 magnets fly past a coil per revolution and create a pulse pair, and if the rotor is warped or the magnetic field is not uniform around the rotor,  it will show up with a periodicity of 8 cycles of the pulse train.

EM


Glad to be of service!

...of if there is a not-so-perfectly-steady scalar wave rotating with the rotor, it will cause an increase in energy denisty which will cause a "voltage bias modulation", which is what that curve is on the scope trace.

(The trace location, in ref to zero, may not be accurate as it may have been lowered.)

Could this be an indication of OU?
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
Is this modulation good or bad?
As was previously stated 'Magnacoaster switched to a non mechanical version after he found the process using a rotor'.

And a partridge in a pear tree.. ;D

An positive bias at the output is "gain".
   

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3217
It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Grumps,  

you are awesome dude!    I can't belive I did not notice the rotor modulation in those flat spots, thank you, thank you !


Now I feel better,  we can clearly see the rotor modulation, which corresponds with 8 pulse cycles, and each cycle has two pulses, one postive and one negative.   Remember  8 magnets fly past a coil per revolution and create a pulse pair, and if the rotor is warped or the magnetic field is not uniform around the rotor,  it will show up with a periodicity of 8 cycles of the pulse train.

EM

That modulation appears to have a frequency about 1/3 of the generator coil frequency.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Group: Guest
It could be many things, but the most obvious and most likely explanation, is that the scope trace rotation is in need of adjustment.

Just to put the lower frequency modulation question into perspective, assuming the RPM=1500, that amounts to 25 rots per second, and since there are 8 or 9 magnets per rotation, that puts us on the order of 800Hz. So, are you seriously thinking that there could be some few Hz signal modulating that wave form?  C.C

.99

I wonder if the rotor is actually turning a little over 1300 RPM. Hummmm... That would place the passing magnet Hz @ a little over 21 the third harmonic of 7.

?

Nah!  That is even too far fetched for me  :D
   
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 ... 37
« previous next »


 

Home Help Search Login Register
Theme © PopularFX | Based on PFX Ideas! | Scripts from iScript4u 2024-11-26, 23:25:37