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Author Topic: Romerouk's Muller Replication  (Read 510745 times)

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wattsup if you put your sig gen on the same ground place and drive using the middle tap then scope each connection you will see twice the driving amplitude on the top connection of the transformer, it's now stepping up the drive amplitude.

   
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If a scalar field exists, then why can't you have a scalar wave in the scalar field?  A "scalar wave" is just a scalar field, with a different density than the ambiant scalar field, that is propagating or changing.  Since a scalar field affects energy density, ...

What you call "scalar wave" is just a "varying field".  You are confusing "propagating wave" and "varying field".
A propagating wave is an autonomous phenomenon carrying energy and independent of its source. If energy is no more provided to the source, the wave continues its way.
A varying field is linked and locked with its source. If energy is no more provided to the source or is reduced, the field collapses or reduces, and the field energy is restored to the source.

   

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Frequency equals matter...


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The objectivity seems to be vacillating like a swing getting pushed at the correct moment.

In a coil switching off, the key is to pulse again at the 75% mark up from the bottom of the spike thereby pushing the collapse into the coil to promote a positive upsurge. This leads to resonant rise energy formation. This can be done with a rotorized device also.


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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
EM,

Could you please post the scope shot you are referring to? (I think I know which one, but it would be good to have a copy here).

Also, could you please explain where the scope probes were placed for that measurement?

Thanks,
.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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P99,   the waveform and my analysis is found on my bench.   romeroUK's original posted image is this one:

The waveform was taken while self-running and with a load.  It was scoped across a top coil with 300 turns.  Both the probe and it's ground clip are connected (I was asking if he left the clip off because I see a low frequency that is modulating the whole pulse train, but no it's some phenomena that needs to be understood, maybe a wobble in the rotor but not realy since we see about 5 pulses pairs and there are 8 per rotation, so we should have seen half a wavelength of this low frequency if it was a warped rotor, but it's not it's something even lower in frequency.)

EM
   

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tExB=qr
The scalar wave could be at a low freq, and to increase the output, it is this frequency that has to be increased.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Thanks EM.

So just to be clear, the scope probes are across the coil before the FWBR?

Also, do we know for sure that this is across only a single coil, and are the top and bottom coils in series or parallel, adding or canceling?

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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I was asking if he left the clip off because I see a low frequency that is modulating the whole pulse train, but no it's some phenomena that needs to be understood, maybe a wobble in the rotor but not realy since we see about 5 pulses pairs and there are 8 per rotation, so we should have seen half a wavelength of this low frequency if it was a warped rotor, but it's not it's something even lower in frequency.

The slight differences in the pulse shapes is due to the variation in the rotor magnet strengths.
The 8 magnets in the rotor all differ a bit in Gauss strength
Each magnet passing by has a slightly different induction effect to the coil that has been measured here, causing the phase shift at the resonance point in the raising trail to occur at a slightly different level.

The lower frequency indeed could be caused by rotor wobble.
We see about half a rotation here in the scope picture.

   
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P99,   the waveform and my analysis is found on my bench.   romeroUK's original posted image is this one:

The waveform was taken while self-running and with a load.  It was scoped across a top coil with 300 turns.  Both the probe and it's ground clip are connected (I was asking if he left the clip off because I see a low frequency that is modulating the whole pulse train, but no it's some phenomena that needs to be understood, maybe a wobble in the rotor but not realy since we see about 5 pulses pairs and there are 8 per rotation, so we should have seen half a wavelength of this low frequency if it was a warped rotor, but it's not it's something even lower in frequency.)

EM

Thanks for Romero's tuned output. Hey, here's mine today. Not identical but getting closer. Romero was correct (again)!

cheers
chrisC
   
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P99,

yes, the waveform was taken across the coil, before the FWBR.

@teslaalset,

I wonder about this low frequency because it might be significant, but if it is due to a rotor wobble,  which is periodic every 8 cycles of the pulse trains, we should have seen more than half a wavelength of it on the screen,  like an upwards bias from a  sin()  function between 0 to pi,  but this low freq. appears to be even lower in frequency than the RPM.  Very interesting.

@all,

Something else that might not have jumped at you guys,   the  low frequecy is actualy on the CAPACITOR,  because the FWBR still work and clip the waveform.  (assuming this phenomena is from the dynamo)  What does this mean?   And actually, at one point in the video I saw romero switch his voltameter to AC and tried to take a reading but than switched it back to DC.  what was that all about?

But, this low frequency could be something else like magnetic fields affecting the circuitry of the oscope, and bending the electron beam, or if shielding doesn't allow that, maybe it affects it some other way.    I'm just throwing these ideas out....

EM

PS   That's looking good Chris, you're almost there.    @all,  should we move this discussion back to the original tread?
   
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...
EM

PS   That's looking good Chris, you're almost there.    @all,  should we move this discussion back to the original tread?

Good idea. I'm for that.

chrisC
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Also, do we know for sure that this is across only a single coil, and are the top and bottom coils in series or parallel, adding or canceling?

.99

Anyone?

Also, I don't recall if Romero mentioned what his coil's resistance was....anyone?

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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P99,  this info is straight from romero.    One coil only was scoped and the coils are in SERIES.   In opposition does not make sense becasue we don't get a voltage difference at the FWBRs.      So the peaks on his waveform are approximately +/- 6 volts.

EM
   

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P99,

yes, the waveform was taken across the coil, before the FWBR.

@teslaalset,

I wonder about this low frequency because it might be significant, but if it is due to a rotor wobble,  which is periodic every 8 cycles of the pulse trains, we should have seen more than half a wavelength of it on the screen,  like an upwards bias from a  sin()  function between 0 to pi,  but this low freq. appears to be even lower in frequency than the RPM.  Very interesting.

@all,

Something else that might not have jumped at you guys,   the  low frequecy is actualy on the CAPACITOR,  because the FWBR still work and clip the waveform.  (assuming this phenomena is from the dynamo)  What does this mean?    And actually, at one point in the video I saw romero switch his voltameter to AC and tried to take a reading but than switched it back to DC.  what was that all about?

But, this low frequency could be something else like magnetic fields affecting the circuitry of the oscope, and bending the electron beam, or if shielding doesn't allow that, maybe it affects it some other way.    I'm just throwing these ideas out....

EM

PS   That's looking good Chris, you're almost there.    @all,  should we move this discussion back to the original tread?

The slow magnifying field would appear in the output.
   
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Anyone?

Also, I don't recall if Romero mentioned what his coil's resistance was....anyone?

.99

A few ohms, 3 to 5 I believe.

chrisC
   

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Anyone thought about getting rid of the rotor?  Biasing the fields a bit more? top and bottom coils different diameters?
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
A few ohms, 3 to 5 I believe.

chrisC
Hi Chris.

I see neptune mentioned 2 Ohms in his notes, so I think I'll go with that.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11009.msg290965#msg290965

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Hi Chris.

I see neptune mentioned 2 Ohms in his notes, so I think I'll go with that.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11009.msg290965#msg290965

.99

Yes, I'm sorry. I am reminded his coils are 300 turns and mine are 500. So, I wrongly gave you my coil values instead of his. Apology!

chrisC
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
No problem Chris. ;)

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Here are some of my questions regarding Romero's build and inherent hidden "secret(s)":

1) Is there anything particular about how the generator coils are wound or interconnected, either individually or with its mate?

2) Is the timing of the two separately-driven drive coils intended to work against each other in such a way as to maintain a certain RPM?

3) If 2) is yes, is that to keep the rotor RPM at a certain range where the gain mechanism is active? (Romero alluded to this)

4) If 2) is yes, is this the reason the motor draws 12W under all conditions, including no-load?

5) Is achieving that gen coil output wave form key to the gain mechanism? If so, why?

6) Romero mentioned that the battery was connected to the output rail, but not directly. How then, and why?

7) The assumption is that all the gen coil outputs are paralleled via the FWBR outputs. How does he achieve such a high output voltage from each coil pair at such a relatively low RPM?

8] Are any discrete caps used in combination with any of the coils?

That's about it for now. I'm sure many more will crop up. ;)

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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good questions, I'll comment on a few.

2) 3) and 4)  I think this was not deliberate on his part, but the result is that it limits the RPM and more current is drawn, and some of it is not wasted into a resistance but flowes into the EMF of the coil and the effect is that it distorts the fields.  It basicaly puts on the breaks, converting kinetic energy back in to a magnetic field that opposes the rotor, so a strain in the magnetic balance of the fields.   It's complicated to explain, but maybe if you visualize a rotor that has a spring on the perifery and as it rotates you stick your hand in there for a quick second and the spring compresses on one side and streches on the other side of your hand, and then when you pull your hand out this distrubance does something, it flowes forward and backwards or something we don't understand yet.

5) I wouldn't say it's "key" not realy, but it sure is indicative of what is happening and from my analysis we can see the effects of the biasing magnets distorting the flux symetry in time.  Also that flat segment in the voltage waveform seems to be unique.  But if we create a dynamo and it has a waveform close to that, I would venture to say that it should work like his.

6)  yeah that's interesting, I think he mentioned this before, it's that recovery diode stuff.  that's why the battery volts and amps go down slightly when the load is turned ON in the first video.  He explained this in the begining somewhere.  This is how I understand it:    He tried a basic loop back approach, to feed the output back to the input, before people suggested a DC2DC converter, and in this basic setup, he had these recovery diodes, to harvest some of the kickback from the motor coils back to the battery, much like Bedini does, or maybe some other approach.  Anyway, these spikes of energy raise the voltage on the battery slightly and when he loads down the rotor, it's dynamics change and some of the spikes are not injecting as much energy and so the voltage drops ever so slightly, and I believe the amperage drops because THE VOLTAGE DROPED.    What's amazing here is that his dynamo basicaly shows no loading effects on the input besides this slight voltage drop with a corresponding amperage drop, and maybe I'm detecting a slight slow down in RPM from the sound.  If he did not have this recovery diodes in place, maybe the voltage and amperage would not change at all which is just amazing, almost makes you think it's fake and the battery is connected to the output as well, but that's the amazing thing here, the input ammeter does not register the extra amps when the load is turned on.     

7)  oh,  I have no problem with the voltage being around 12 to 15 volts at those RPMs, he is using a total of 600 turns of wire and powerful neos and I've done calculations before to show it's quite reasonable.

EM
« Last Edit: 2011-06-22, 06:58:25 by EMdevices »
   
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@teslaalset,

I wonder about this low frequency because it might be significant, but if it is due to a rotor wobble,  which is periodic every 8 cycles of the pulse trains, we should have seen more than half a wavelength of it on the screen,  like an upwards bias from a  sin()  function between 0 to pi,  but this low freq. appears to be even lower in frequency than the RPM.  Very interesting.

It could be caused by mechanical resonance as well.
I remember, while working on optical discs drive designs many years ago, that a CD disc also has some self resonance when spinining at high speed.
For CD  discs it was around 200Hz.

This self resonance is probably triggered by the Z-forces (forces parallel to the Z-axis)  that the coils cause, since there are not only tangential forces in the X-Y plane, but also significant Z forces.
If well alligned the Z direction forces are cancelled out by the coil pairs (top and bottom)  but there will be always deviations between coils and core values.
The actual rotor wobble is probably caused by the difference between the disc rotation and disc resonance frequency, e.g. when the disc is rotating at 50Hz (3000 RPM) and its selfresonance is 82 Hz, the wobble has a typical frequency of 82-50=32 Hz.
« Last Edit: 2011-06-22, 12:22:30 by teslaalset »
   
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It could be caused by mechanical resonance as well.
I remember, while working on optical discs drive designs many years ago, that a CD disc also has some self resonance when spinining at high speed.
For CD  discs it was around 200Hz.

This self resonance is probably triggered by the Z-forces that the coils cause, since there are not only tangential forces in the X-Y plane, but also significant Y forces.
If well alligned the Z direction forces are cancelled out by the coil pairs (top and bottom)  but there will be always deviations between coils and core values.
The actual rotor wobble is probably caused by the difference between the disc rotation and disc resonance frequency, e.g. when the disc is rotating at 50Hz (3000 RPM) and its selfresonance is 82 Hz, the wobble has a typical frequency of 82-50=32 Hz.


In an attempt to take a step from my 'voice of sanity' label....

So, we may be seeing a combination of Maxwell stress tensors and Larmor precession, on a macro scale.

I like that better than his scope deflection yoke being twisted out of place  :)
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Thanks EM.

Here are Ben's (k4zep) thoughts on point 6)

Quote
Another thought,  a very nice way to add the gen to the loop is to feed the motor through a diode, cathode to positive rail of motor and drive from power supply going through the diode, then put your gen output ACROSS that diode, Plus to the cathode, minus to the anode, floating Gen I assume.  any positive current/voltage above +.7VDC, give or take will be added to the total loop supply, a diode adding circuit.  Very simple, keeps your motor running, and you can take the Gen in and out.  Have fun with it!
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg292156#msg292156

Also, his findings agree with my assertion that the output voltage (15VDC) seems high for the RPM.

Quote
I just don't see him getting 15VDC out @ 1200 rpm with the size coils he uses, I can only get 6/7 V RMS, just doesn't happen for me, of course I'm ate up with LENZ and am not OU.!

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

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I like that better than his scope deflection yoke being twisted out of place  :)

I expect the scope trace has a low frequency affecting the entire trace.  (sorry, i forgot what this is called)
   
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