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Author Topic: Romerouk's Muller Replication  (Read 510658 times)
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img  Grumpy
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #300 on: 2011-05-18, 15:13:35 »

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Quote from: exnihiloest on 2011-05-18, 08:55:46
The author of the patent wrote also:
"Tests have been carried out with different fixed values of the period up to a minimum value about 10-12s"

10-12s = 1ps. In 1998 (and even now), hundreds of volts at Thz frequencies were far from the possibilities of independent inventors or small companies. Moreover at such frequencies the coils would have an incredible high impedance on the order of hundreds of megohms so no current could flow except if tremendous voltages in the tens of MV range were used but Joule losses would also be tremendous. Even at Ghz frequencies, it would be a crazy challenge. The inventor is a liar.



10-12s = 1ps

This refers to the period between the two pulses - a phase shift or delay.

Most here already know that at some amount of phase shift between the pulses, the two pulses are compressed and one high amplitude pulse results.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #301 on: 2011-05-18, 15:15:59 »
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@Wavewatcher
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"The inventor is a liar."
Classic!  
I would agree it is classic, I have always found it very odd if not a little disturbing that whenever some people encounter something they do not understand they believe it must either be impossible or a scam. In which case they are essentially implying that the known universe and all of it's effects must revolve around their beliefs which is of course fanatic if not insane. Personally I find this mind-boggling and think it represents a form of egotism I find hard to understand, I have to wonder what would cause anyone anywhere to believe that they could never be wrong or misguided in their thoughts? Did someone declare them infallible or did they just fabricate this nonsense all on their own?. I think this stems from insecurity in one's self which leads to a pattern of behavior whereby an individual must judge everyone else in order to make themselves feel normal if not superior. The neat part of this form of delusion is the fact that the individual will always demand proof of equality if not superiority from everyone else but require no such proof from themselves, in fact they cannot accept criticism or else they would be bound to the same rules they apply to everyone else in which case their argument simply falls apart.
Regards
AC
« Last Edit: 2011-05-18, 15:54:57 by allcanadian »


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  altair
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #302 on: 2011-05-18, 17:55:24 »
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Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-05-17, 21:41:29
ION,

Another common method is to use two diodes, in series, opposing polarity. This works for AC or DC and is found across huge solenoids. The pair conduct in either direction for a very short period then look like an open circuit.

They are generally high current Schottky. They were (are?) used to protect the relay contacts driving the device and still allow quick mechanical action of the device.
The voltage ratings of the diodes were chosen at 10 times the operating voltage for DC (usually 24, 32 or 48) and 6 times the operating voltage for AC.

A single diode wasn't acceptable for dump valves on fire control systems or fuel cutoff valves on diesel engines driving the fire pumps. Single diodes created a slow valve closure.



The two diodes in series are what's commonly known as Surgistors, or Transzorbs.
They are more like very high power zeners diodes, and come paired in a two-lead package.
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #303 on: 2011-05-18, 18:07:58 »
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In the days I speak of zeners weren't something we had on the shelf. We made our own from 1N4000 series to selenium stacks.
I still remember the rotten egg smell from the stacks when we didn't figure it right.
   
img  altair
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #304 on: 2011-05-18, 18:11:13 »
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Quote from: allcanadian on 2011-05-18, 15:15:59
@WavewatcherI would agree it is classic, I have always found it very odd if not a little disturbing that whenever some people encounter something they do not understand they believe it must either be impossible or a scam. In which case they are essentially implying that the known universe and all of it's effects must revolve around their beliefs which is of course fanatic if not insane. Personally I find this mind-boggling and think it represents a form of egotism I find hard to understand, I have to wonder what would cause anyone anywhere to believe that they could never be wrong or misguided in their thoughts? Did someone declare them infallible or did they just fabricate this nonsense all on their own?. I think this stems from insecurity in one's self which leads to a pattern of behavior whereby an individual must judge everyone else in order to make themselves feel normal if not superior. The neat part of this form of delusion is the fact that the individual will always demand proof of equality if not superiority from everyone else but require no such proof from themselves, in fact they cannot accept criticism or else they would be bound to the same rules they apply to everyone else in which case their argument simply falls apart.
Regards
AC

Excellent reply, Allcanadian  O0

I would assume that this behavior is also one of the reasons why we still don't have Free energy to this day.
And think about the irony about a post like that, being made in a forum on Free Energy...  C.C

Cheers
   
img  altair
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #305 on: 2011-05-18, 18:12:29 »
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@ Wavewatcher,

So right !    ;D ;D ;D
   
img  poynt99
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #306 on: 2011-05-18, 18:16:01 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-05-18, 01:10:56
Zener mode?

Yes, you can actually use zeners, too. The arrangement is called a 'clipper-diode'. Any diode pair may be used but one arrangement may function from the capacitance of the diode junctions. Another will rely mainly upon junction conduction to off time.

The main purpose of ones used on high impedance solenoids in critical valve closing times were as described. The zener characteristics were of little consequence.

If there are two "regular" diodes in series, back-to-back, then the only possible breakover is via "zener mode". You'll have a current path through the diode junction capacitances, but that is not what I was referring to.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #307 on: 2011-05-18, 21:24:36 »
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Take it easy folks.

Ex is not superhuman and I doubt anyone else can make that claim.

How many of us have not made the same mistake?

When a 'period' is mentioned in such a document, how many would not first assume it meant wavelength or pulse length?

IMO his knowledge is needed here. If we must, we can pick and choose but it is needed.

For that matter.... How many of us can claim we are not an anal passageway on occasion? NONE  ;D
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #308 on: 2011-05-18, 21:45:56 »
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Poynt,

I need to describe a finer point of semi-conductor junctions relating to initial charge application and current flow. I'll look for the references and post them elsewhere on OUR.

It has to do with current flow before the junction begins it's work. I don't recall seeing it on recent datasheets but it is a means to build a simple and ultra-short pulse generator, if you can find a switch fast enough.

The last time I built one the gate signal was from a 1N914(inverted) and the switch was a microwave class signal transistor with a tiny strip of board foil for the inductor. Most scopes can't show the pulse but you can charge a cap with the output.

In short: diodes conduct in reverse long before break-over but for an incredibly short time. Forward, they don't conduct until the same amount of time.

It was common for us (my old group) to use two 1N4007s with cathodes tied together across a 24VDC solenoid to extend the life of the driving relay contacts. Granted, most cases only required one diode, if the valve closure time was allowed in the hundreds of millisecond range or longer. I have seen some of the solenoids mentioned send a flyback of 200x operating voltage. I didn't care to measure inductance on them but I imagine they were in the ten's of Henries range.

Cathode to Cathode Zeners are pretty common on AC loads that may ring-down on power removal or when susceptible to AC hash on the line. There, they just clip + & - peaks.




 
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #309 on: 2011-05-19, 08:59:45 »
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Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-05-18, 11:37:11
...
"The inventor is a liar."

Classic!  

Ex, is this a language issue or are you having a bad day? I respect anyone able to function using more than one language. Folks in the U.S. don't think a second or third is needed. I think they should be ashamed.

If you are just having a bad day I suggest you investigate a little more before making such statements.
 

As already explained, the inventor said to have conducted not feasible and not even consistent experiments. A 10-12s time gap regardless it is a delay or a period or whatever, implies signals spectrum in the Thz region, incompatible with the components of the device. And experiments in the Thz/Ghz/tens Mhz region, need to consider propagation phenomena i.e. to go out of the hypothesis of the quasi-stationary state approximation, upon which the author bases all the explanations of the functioning.

Every one aware of electronics basis and signal theory, can detect such inconsistent speech of uneducated liars. I'm always astonished by the gullible people unable to duplicate absurd patents and nevertheless supporting the inventors only because these inventors say with simple words, not relevant but understandable by them, what they love to hear.  Wishful thinking.


« Last Edit: 2011-05-19, 10:18:14 by exnihiloest »
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #310 on: 2011-05-19, 09:19:02 »
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Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-05-18, 21:24:36
Take it easy folks.

Ex is not superhuman and I doubt anyone else can make that claim.

How many of us have not made the same mistake?

When a 'period' is mentioned in such a document, how many would not first assume it meant wavelength or pulse length?
...

You are right, I'm not (yet? :D) a superhuman but no mistake here, just implied terms. Any time gap dt during which the amplitude of an electric signal is changing, implies a spectrum of frequencies in the 1/dt range. It doesn't a matter it is a period or a delay.
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #311 on: 2011-05-19, 09:40:57 »
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Quote from: altair on 2011-05-18, 18:11:13
Excellent reply, Allcanadian  O0

I would assume that this behavior is also one of the reasons why we still don't have Free energy to this day.
And think about the irony about a post like that, being made in a forum on Free Energy...  C.C

Cheers


This behavior doesn't prevent you from building the suspicious patent and to prove it works.

So why do you say that we still don't have Free energy to this day?!!! Don't you trust the hundreds of free energy devices from patents like that one?

O men of little faith, why do you doubt? Of course we have hundreds, may be thousands, of working FE devices. We just have to build them according to the patents.   ;D
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #312 on: 2011-05-19, 14:15:34 »
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@exnihiloest
Quote
This behavior doesn't prevent you from building the suspicious patent and to prove it works.
I would agree however the first issue that would need to be addressed is the simple fact that "we cannot build what we do not understand" which is obvious.

Quote
So why do you say that we still don't have Free energy to this day?!!! Don't you trust the hundreds of free energy devices from patents like that one?

Well, if this is a matter of "trust" then we could either trust the very ingenious inventors who have spent a great deal of time and tens of thousands of dollars to patent their device and the patent office or we could trust in you who believes they are all liars, again I think the answer is fairly obvious.

Quote
O men of little faith, why do you doubt? Of course we have hundreds, may be thousands, of working FE devices. We just have to build them according to the patents
We should understand that a patent is not designed to provide you and others with practical information on building or understanding the patent, it is designed to protect the inventor and their invention from people like you and others.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #313 on: 2011-05-19, 15:17:13 »

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Quote from: exnihiloest on 2011-05-19, 08:59:45
As already explained, the inventor said to have conducted not feasible and not even consistent experiments. A 10-12s time gap regardless it is a delay or a period or whatever, implies signals spectrum in the Thz region, incompatible with the components of the device. And experiments in the Thz/Ghz/tens Mhz region, need to consider propagation phenomena i.e. to go out of the hypothesis of the quasi-stationary state approximation, upon which the author bases all the explanations of the functioning.

Every one aware of electronics basis and signal theory, can detect such inconsistent speech of uneducated liars. I'm always astonished by the gullible people unable to duplicate absurd patents and nevertheless supporting the inventors only because these inventors say with simple words, not relevant but understandable by them, what they love to hear.  Wishful thinking.

The reference to  10-12s is not a time gap between two pulses on a single line but is the time gap between two pulses on two lines.  A difference in the length of wire can achieve 1ps difference between the two pulses.
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #314 on: 2011-05-19, 17:26:26 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2011-05-19, 15:17:13
The reference to  10-12s is not a time gap between two pulses on a single line but is the time gap between two pulses on two lines.  A difference in the length of wire can achieve 1ps difference between the two pulses.

Grumpy,

BRAVO!

This makes length of pulse and length of wire unimportant but is a hard idea to grasp outside of QED. Classical Electrodynamics can't explain it with any accuracy.

Feyman (and others) solved the problem. They wouldn't be crackpots, would they?


BTW: If it didn't work we wouldn't have gas lasers or other types using external excitation using heterodyne or infradyne methods.
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #315 on: 2011-05-20, 19:51:49 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2011-05-19, 15:17:13
The reference to  10-12s is not a time gap between two pulses on a single line but is the time gap between two pulses on two lines.  A difference in the length of wire can achieve 1ps difference between the two pulses.

At 1ps, every conductor segment of only 0.3 mm length represents a full wave antenna radiating EM.
Moreover, the rise time of the circuit is longer than 1ps by many orders.
Consequently 1ps or even 1ns time gap is here completely irrelevant, it is as irrelevant as talking about a 1ns time lag between two watches beating second.
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #316 on: 2011-05-20, 20:35:02 »
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Quote from: allcanadian on 2011-05-19, 14:15:34
@exnihiloest I would agree however the first issue that would need to be addressed is the simple fact that "we cannot build what we do not understand" which is obvious.

It is not obvious. It is easy to build what is not understood, provided that a detailed procedure is given.

Quote
Well, if this is a matter of "trust" then we could either trust the very ingenious inventors who have spent a great deal of time and tens of thousands of dollars to patent their device and the patent office or we could trust in you who believes they are all liars, again I think the answer is fairly obvious.

I don't see what is "ingenious" in not working patents. I don't say that all inventors are liars. Most of the patents can work (even if there are not all usefull). Most of inventors are not liars. But most of inventors of FE devices are liars, or complete cranks, otherwise we would have succeeded in building at least one FE device.

Quote
We should understand that a patent is not designed to provide you and others with practical information on building or understanding the patent, it is designed to protect the inventor and their invention from people like you and others.
Regards
AC

It is a very partial view. The patent is designed to protect the inventor but in compensation, the inventor must publish his idea, fairly, honnestly, in order to let produce new devices for the benefit of the community.

Most of the patents can be duplicated and work, but none of the FE patents. And FE patents expire without having been duplicated. These pseudo-inventors would have saved money in not patenting their ideas while provided with the same protection by keeping their idea for themselves only. Same result.  :)  
I guess that most of them are egocentric and convinced that their [wrong] idea will work, they patent without having built their device or without having checked the reality of the so-called "free energy".
   
img  muDped
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #317 on: 2011-05-20, 21:37:53 »

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Quote from: exnihiloest on 2011-05-20, 20:35:02
...

Most of inventors are not liars. But most of inventors of FE devices are liars, or complete cranks, otherwise we would have succeeded in building at least one FE device.
...



The various Patent granting authorities worldwide serve a
very useful "control" function for their respective governments.

Inventions and/or technologies which are deemed to have
potential benefit to the aims of the Military Industrial Complex
are seized in the "interests" of National Security.

Patent Documents are very often crafted to be instruments of
deception.  Much knowledge has been suppressed.

Those classified technologies are gainfully exploited in
underground facilities (Area 51 et al.)

All "FE" devices are strictly controlled.



---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #318 on: 2011-05-20, 22:16:51 »
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Quote from: Dumped on 2011-05-20, 21:37:53

The various Patent granting authorities worldwide serve a
very useful "control" function for their respective governments.

Inventions and/or technologies which are deemed to have
potential benefit to the aims of the Military Industrial Complex
are seized in the "interests" of National Security.

Patent Documents are very often crafted to be instruments of
deception.  Much knowledge has been suppressed.

Those classified technologies are gainfully exploited in
underground facilities (Area 51 et al.)

All "FE" devices are strictly controlled.



I think you're right, dumped - if you have any decently documented examples, I'd like to know!  (I'm aware of RomeroUK's visit from two MIB's)

I spoke to Carmen Muller of Muller Power Co. today.  Sharp, articulate, ended up she asked me more questions than I asked her.  ;)  Our phone contact got flaky and connection failed finally.  But she has my email address...  She said there are some things she won't discuss via phone...
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #319 on: 2011-05-20, 22:35:58 »
Group: Guest
Give up folks.

We see what we expect to see, regardless of what is in front of our eyes. This is true for both sides of the argument.
The 1ps or even 1ns time gap argument is completely irrelevant and so is rise or fall time.

As long as one party is convinced there can be nothing interesting in any coil arrangement there is no point in the discussion. They simply don't have the experiences to formulate a different or more flexible view. They are only here to irritate. There can be no other explanation.

Certainly, they aren't here to participate in overunity research.

-----------

Somebody contact Feyman and tell him he is a crackpot.

-----------

This argument is off topic anyway.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #320 on: 2011-05-21, 01:14:56 »
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  Actually, we see what the best measuring devices we can get tell us -- and even then we have to re-check and use various methods.

"Somebody contact Feynman..."  good luck -- wish he would come back, but he seems to have disappeared also from OU.com.  I also miss EMDevices...
   
img  EMdevices
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #321 on: 2011-05-21, 01:22:09 »
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Hi Professor,

I'm still here,  see my bench project.   I'm just not going to butt heads with the skeptics anymore.

EM
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #322 on: 2011-05-21, 01:38:11 »
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-05-21, 01:22:09
Hi Professor,

I'm still here,  see my bench project.   I'm just not going to butt heads with the skeptics anymore.

EM

Hey, great!  I'm really excited that you're going to do the Muller/RomeroUK build.  Best wishes on that.   O0

Wish someone would try this much simpler build:  http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=853.0 

No expensive magnets needed, or bearings, or big coils.  Just a 9-wind toroid and a transistor, and you're almost there... 

But hey, I'm learning a lot and having fun!  The data are lookin' good, too.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #323 on: 2011-05-21, 01:52:59 »
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PS -- any contact with Feynman?  hoping he is alright.  He was going well on the Gabriel device last I heard.
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #324 on: 2011-05-21, 03:25:46 »
Group: Guest
PhysicsProf,

I was speaking of Richard Feynman, theory of quantum electrodynamics fame  :)

He would be hard to contact, too.

 
   
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