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Author Topic: Romerouk's Muller Replication  (Read 510698 times)

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Great work chaps.

So indeed i have the wrong model

ALS2           25V   65X105
ALS2           25V   65X115
ALS2           25V   66X115
ALS3           25V   36X105
ALS4           25V   36X105
ALS6           25V   66X105
ALS22   25V   40X75

EDIT i had not noticed any marks on my cap, i will have a look tomorrow when i have it in front of me.

   
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Great work chaps.

So indeed i have the wrong model


I believe your picture shows you have an ALS20.

Don't spend more money on a different cap. Even if you found the exact duplication there are more than enough variables that change over use, time, temperature, environment, etc that will still make it only 'similiar'.

Hell, throw a bleeder resistor across it and call that "replication of Romero's capacitor leakage due to age and abuse". Then, you'll be right on the mark  ;)
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
@penno,

Yes, interesting about Skywatcher's results over at EF. Seems he has been through much of this already. I wonder what his conclusions were? He is a member here, but not yet posted.

Could you please download some of his diagrams from that thread and post them here? Thanks.

.99


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@all, I also posted this over at OU.
did anyone else find it strange that, at around 5:30 in the self running video (20 minute), Romero measures the DC at the switch - 15.07 volts.
at 6:20, he switches the DMM to AC volts, and tries, without success, to measure the AC coming into the bridge rectifier.
The 64,000 dollar question -
    why is he unable to get any reading on the DMM ?
I must admit, he fumbles and falters, and even seems surprised and confused (noted by his changing of probe location) as to why he sees no AC.
Food for thought. I gotta say. This has been severely disheartening but much has been learned.
Penno

It's good to be back home, even if my vacation was just great and very relaxing.

Well, I can say it simply. All generator coils combined gave him a DC output of his wheel at around 2-3 vdc after the rectifier added to the 12vdc coming already from the hidden battery that was already connected to the DC output rail, that gave him the 15vdc reading at DC. At AC before the rectifier of course he will see almost nothing because his 2-3 vdc was a combined voltage. Putting the probe at AC before the rectifier means it is only on one generator coil hence reading will be practically nothing. I don't think it has anything to do with a frequency limitation since his dc reading was shown at the same frequency. Reading the DC after the rectifier should not change the frequency so why should lit influence the AC reading before the rectifier.

I am just amazed as to why it takes so long for @members to realize when something is just not right. I posted at OU about Romero removing the resistors from his drive circuits when he did his suspended video but it seems that guys have trouble with 1 + 1 = 2. It always has to equal something else. Sorry but Romero is a fake, from Video 1 to 3, all the way and guys just do not want to see it.

Ok, here is a question about the waveform. When you put your probe on one generator coil, you are measuring voltage variation versus time. Each cycle is one magnet passing through the gen coil. The RPM gives you the fixed amount of frequency of the waveform. But the frequency also includes the space between each magnet. If there are let's say two rotor magnet diameters of empty space between each rotor magnet, this means 1 magnet, 2 spaces, 1 magnet and so on making the empty space 66% of the frequency and the actual magnet passage 33% of the frequency. So....... where is the 66% in the waveform?

wattsup

Added: About the output, the generator coils combined did not produce much voltage by themselves. They never had too and the rather generous distance seen between his rotor magnets and his generator coils should have told us that this device would not produce the output seen on his meter. That's why guys are now measuring peanut outputs from their devices with the same rotor/gen distances. Why should it be different for Romeros' wheel. Again he faked it. Simple. This whole thing was a simple and deliberated scam on his part. Anyone with a wheel should stop trying to figure out how Romero made his wheel work and start asking how they can make their wheels work with NEW IDEAS.

Again AOAO, cascading generator coils and even full cascading generators coils where the drive coils are also used as generators meaning no drive coils required are some of the ways I see that guys will have to start testing. There would be set-up procedure to elaborate to do this.


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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
It is there wattsup. Look at EM's scope trace in my diagram.

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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It's good to be back home, even if my vacation was just great and very relaxing.

Well, I can say it simply. All generator coils combined gave him a DC output of his wheel at around 2-3 vdc after the rectifier added to the 12vdc coming already from the hidden battery that was already connected to the DC output rail, that gave him the 15vdc reading at DC. At AC before the rectifier of course he will see almost nothing because his 2-3 vdc was a combined voltage. Putting the probe at AC before the rectifier means it is only on one generator coil hence reading will be practically nothing. I don't think it has anything to do with a frequency limitation since his dc reading was shown at the same frequency. Reading the DC after the rectifier should not change the frequency so why should lit influence the AC reading before the rectifier.

I am just amazed as to why it takes so long for @members to realize when something is just not right. I posted at OU about Romero removing the resistors from his drive circuits when he did his suspended video but it seems that guys have trouble with 1 + 1 = 2. It always has to equal something else. Sorry but Romero is a fake, from Video 1 to 3, all the way and guys just do not want to see it.

Ok, here is a question about the waveform. When you put your probe on one generator coil, you are measuring voltage variation versus time. Each cycle is one magnet passing through the gen coil. The RPM gives you the fixed amount of frequency of the waveform. But the frequency also includes the space between each magnet. If there are let's say two rotor magnet diameters of empty space between each rotor magnet, this means 1 magnet, 2 spaces, 1 magnet and so on making the empty space 66% of the frequency and the actual magnet passage 33% of the frequency. So....... where is the 66% in the waveform?

wattsup

Added: About the output, the generator coils combined did not produce much voltage by themselves. They never had too and the rather generous distance seen between his rotor magnets and his generator coils should have told us that this device would not produce the output seen on his meter. That's why guys are now measuring peanut outputs from their devices with the same rotor/gen distances. Why should it be different for Romeros' wheel. Again he faked it. Simple. This whole thing was a simple and deliberated scam on his part. Anyone with a wheel should stop trying to figure out how Romero made his wheel work and start asking how they can make their wheels work with NEW IDEAS.

Again AOAO, cascading generator coils and even full cascading generators coils where the drive coils are also used as generators meaning no drive coils required are some of the ways I see that guys will have to start testing. There would be set-up procedure to elaborate to do this.


Well, I dont know what coils you are using, in your replication that you have done everything you can, beyond what has been done , to come to your infallible conclusions, that you are out here just about demanding that others should quit on this.
" Anyone with a wheel should stop trying to figure out how Romero made his wheel work "

Time will tell.

I dont know how much voltage out of YOUR coils with ferrite cores and bias mags, but im getting bout 8v at 3/8in and near 25v at less than an 1/8in.  Loaded.    Lots of lenz at 1/8, but the mag on the rear of the coil helps there alot.  A lot.  And a voltage increase as compared with no bias mag..  I call it a bias mag as it seems the common term which all understand.

Im not building the muller. Im just messing with 1 coil, bifi, ferrite core.    Im using a separate motor circuit to drive the rotor. 

Also I believe that the storage cap in Romeros setup is being step charged between 1 of the drive pulses, but the other drive only gets 2 steps of charge, then the cycle continues.  So my immediate recommendation beyond Romeros way, would be to have odd no mags and even coils. Now we can have the drive coils opposite of each other and they each get the same no. of step charges.
I just find it odd in Romeros setup.  Also, the timing for each drive must be somewhat different as the halls are being triggered from different radius's and different mags, may have been his way of compensating,  BUT, could it be that one of the drive coils is a shorted coil for cap charging?

Many things going on..   But I suggest you do some real testing before you make too many claims that are circumstantial. ;)


Mags


   

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Mags that's a good comment about the second drive coil being switched as a short, this could make much more sense than driving the opposite way to the other, and it hadn't occurred to me, i need to do some thinking on this one, thanks.
   

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wattsup

Quote
I posted at OU about Romero removing the resistors from his drive circuits when he did his suspended video but it seems that guys have trouble with 1 + 1 = 2.

what resistors do you refer to as he does not use any in relation to the drive coils? unless you mean the 100 Ohm for the hall supply
   

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This is starting to make some sense, i always wondered why i draw twice the current on my replication, maybe it's because he's only driving 1 coil pair but using the second to short the coil, Think about the way the hall works, it's effectively a collector-emitter configuration and the emitter is connected to 0v so therefore when a magnet triggers it, the collector gets pulled to ground, meaning that if the transistor was swapped for a TIP41C (NPN) then the coil would be shorted until a periphery magnet triggers the hall to switch, so we have a shorted coil which is opened 8 times each full rotation.

Lets face it i know the periphery coil pair if driven are opposing the direction of rotation and this has never made any sense.So here is the reason why.

The Periphery coil is also the one that tapers in at the top and show signs where he has soldered extra wire to add more turns
   
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wattsup

what resistors do you refer to as he does not use any in relation to the drive coils? unless you mean the 100 Ohm for the hall supply

@Peterae

Here are the resistors shown in Video 1, Video 2 and not there in Video 3. Regardless of if they are used for Hall Sensor or not, the fact remains that in Video 3, Romero removed the resistors. If the resistors were on the feed to the hall sensor, then he obviously did not have enough battery power hidden in his dc convertor box to pass the resistors, activate the hall sensor and have enough to trigger the gate to create his required switching on/off of the drive coils. Regardless of why, the fact remains he did try to show Video 2 and 3 as a continuation but fooled us there again.

Now you know why I asked you if you can try running your wheel on one or two 9vdc batteries.

Also, if someone does a sound scan of the wheel turning in Video 3 compared to Video 2, then if there is any difference someone will have to explain it. But don't count on Romero to do so because in his book, silence is his best ally.

I may seem like a pain in the ass but if you realize how much time this guy has taken up and how much effort all based on simple crap, it just knocks me to the ground when we have so many other potential OU methods to run after instead of this guys failures and deceit. We see builders all the time showing their stuff and explaining why it does not work the way they planned, and we try to help where we can. But when someone comes in and fakes three videos and takes up so much energy on the forums, I am just dumfounded, and hence, my reason for pushing back.

@poynt99

Thanks for your reply but where in that waveform can you see when the generator coil is in between two rotor magnets? Seems to me the time factor is not right. If you have one magnet plus two (or more) magnet spaces before the next magnet, seems to me the time factor which does not change regardless of voltage output. Add that to the fact that there will also be a delay somewhere before the hall sensor actives the drive coil to push the rotor forward again, there is something wrong. But anyways, this is a moot point in the grand scheme of this scheme.

@mag

Yes, the sooner you stop looking at Romeros wheel and concentrate on looking at newer avenues to work this out, the better. This I know guys will be telling themselves 1 or 2 months from now. We have all been down this road so many damn times it really is not funny anymore. My post at OU that @Plengo downsized explains it better. http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg294185#msg294185

It is very simple - Asking yourself how Romeros wheel worked is the wrong approach to begin with. That first mistake will lead no where but endless conjecture and endless suppositions. You say I am drawing conclusions. No way. These are facts. Fact that Video 1 was battery driven. Facts that the same battery wires were sent down a hole in Video 2. Fact that he removed those resistors in Video 3. No need for guessing anything here. Simple facts says it all and all these then coincides with Romeros' dancing replies to me at OU, coincide with his MIB story and miraculous come back and now even more a miraculous new forum. Wow them MIBs are really on the ball. lol

wattsup


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"Periphery coil"?

If you are correct then the circuit diagram given is wrong. Just swapping the PNP for an NPN won't short the coil.

The collector/emitter pair are still in series with the coil and battery. It would reverse the on/off sequence.

   

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Frequency equals matter...


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Wrap a reader/pickup configuration around the activity of a secondary activity impressed upon a primary resonant field. This will garner the necessary attention.


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Hey Peter

It will be interesting to see what results you get with 1 driver set. 

I was chattin with Deepcut, and I told him to try some reverse polarity diodes on his drive coils. He tried 1 and the rpm increased.

Just put the diode across the coil so that the cathode is on the lead of the coil that is connected to + from the driver circuit. You will see an increase in rpm at the same input level as without the diode.  ;]

When the driver circuit sends the pulse to the coil, the diode doesnt conduct yet, till the input pulse ends, then the diode allows current to continue (in the same direction) in the coil.  It is not bemf or cemf, it is like a flywheel and the diode allows the current to continue for a bit. No reversal happening here. ;]

Sooo, now you can shorten the input pulse( less input) and get the same rotational power to the rotor that you are getting now. Also, you may have to adjust the timing( I find the need to retard, or trigger a bit later. ) when using the diodes. 

I have a vid on YT that is of a pulse motor with 1 coil being driven. Then I take the so called bemf ;]  and rectify it to a cap and that cap is the source for a second drive coil.  And there was a significant increase in rpm. Ive had up to 3 coils like this.

Just saying, there are things that you can do to get more rpm for the same amount of power in.  We can either try to send some of the drive energy directly back to the battery from the drive coil, or we can apply it all to getting the rotor going and let the gens charge the battery.

With the diodes, we are using the energy in the coil, that is still there when the input is cut, and using it up to increase rpm buy a longer lasting magnetic field pushing the rotor, after the input is disconnected.  ;]  Extree.

Try it and let us know what you find.  Lets see if we can really reduce the input necessary.    Romero used this in a circuit before his shorting coil run.  I asked him about it, but he said nobody listened.    He used it on the primary of a transformer.  Imagine, using maybe half as much of a pulse width input to get a desired width input with the diode freewheeling the primary.  Are we getting more?

Mags


   
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Well, I dont know what coils you are using, in your replication that you have done everything you can, beyond what has been done , to come to your infallible conclusions, that you are out here just about demanding that others should quit on this.
" Anyone with a wheel should stop trying to figure out how Romero made his wheel work "
...
Mags

I wouldn't lose sleep over his statements, especially when he doesn't have a wheel nor the technical expertise.  - the wannabe emperor has no clothes.

cheers
chrisC
   
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Here is a post of David70 at OU and my PM to him.
Quote
Quote from: David70 on July 9th, 2011 at 02:27:25 AM posted here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg294304#msg294304

@wattsup
    i have tested the circuit with and without that resistor and it makes no difference.i run it as low as 4 volts and i get the same speed, 366RPM. I think it looks like that because the video was done inside and not too much light.
    David

@David70

I said I would not post to the Muller Dynamo thread anymore so I am PMing you instead. You can post my answer to your post if you wish.

There is no mistake. The resistors are removed from video 3 since it is noticed when you move through the frames of the video at several points. See here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=827.msg15451#msg15451

The point is not that it works at 4 volts with or without the resistor in your particular case. The point is what would you do if you run the wheel with a 12vdc by 7-12ah battery like he was using in his Videos 1 and 2 . In that case you would not take any chances and keep the resistors in place so as not to risk to overload the hall sensors that would overload the transistor gates.

But if you were using very small batteries, regardless of 4 volts or 9 volts types with a minimal ah, you will want to remove the resistors because the resistance will cost you to much energy and also because the risk of overloading the hall sensor is minimal with such small batteries as he can hide in his dc convertor box.

Also, in Video 3 he put Wire X Red and Black of the DC output rail directly back to drive coil circuit inputs so the use of the DC convertor to be used as a convertor is useless or cancelled. But by doing so and having a battery in the dc convertor box, this would energize the device to turn the rotor wheel as it did. lol

Also, I notice that the dc convertor box has screwdriver marks between each half of the outside covers as you will get when trying to pry open the box, it always leaves burr marks. Those burr marks are not evident in Video 2.

There is no question to ask anymore if Romero faked his videos or not. It is a certainty.

Thanks for your interest.

wattsup

@chrisC

You are just setting yourself up to eat some big crow. You should find a nice spot where there is some soft sand. Easier to stick your head in and hide from the facts.


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..

@chrisC

You are just setting yourself up to eat some big crow. You should find a nice spot where there is some soft sand. Easier to stick your head in and hide from the facts.

You are the one shitting all over the place with your totally stupid assumptions. You'll make a good clown and please take your clown acts somewhere else. Thank you.

cheers
chrisC
   
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I reckon it is way past time to jump ship

I wish wattsup could employ his skills and gather the detail need to replicate this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfg4ZLFWSG8

At least it seems more realistic.

Just cant for the life of me figure how Romero get more than a couple of volts from his gen coils. I've obviously
used all the tricks I know of and short of using multifilar coils to raise the voltage, I just can't get there.

Penno
   
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You are the one shitting all over the place with your totally stupid assumptions. You'll make a good clown and please take your clown acts somewhere else. Thank you.

cheers
chrisC


Greetings.

@ChrisC

Wattsup is critiqued for not having a unit to prove the issue, or to be allowed to play as an equal party for same reason, that instead, he's just using a video to bash something wonderful. However, the critics do not use the video to observe and acknowledge the evidence that is there. Fair's fair.

In this post here, http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1003.msg14950#msg14950, you signed onto and lauded a demonstrably false 'proof'. The continuation arc drawn in and proposed by EMDevices to be evidence of sameness can be proven to be connecting two completely dissimilar wires. Will you yourself look at the video #2, and admit error? See 2.24+ time.

Begin wrong there, can mean one is wrong elsewhere. Critical points should thus be given the benefit of the doubt.

Point of fact: a) the arc drawn by EMDevice's connected a red wire, to an orange wire, not another red wire. b) The view shows that the wire drawn as connected to red Wire X is actually an orange coil wire, quite separate. The red one next to that, is also, quite separate. Look at 8.41 for reference.  c) I can show 3 or more views at different times, each showing Wire X terminating into the umbrella plug. I can argue, factually, that Plengo's 'case closed proof' posted in rebuttal on OU, which was a quite logical monstrosity hiding behind the moderator's hammer for any counterpoint, also assumes points made in clear error.

But what's the point, when blind belief alone, has become the point.  ??? No one in the critical camp has said the Muller dynamo is void, or invalid at all, or cannot be made to self run ever..only that the evidence for this particular species of one as a self runner, has become (increasingly) questionable.

@Penno

That's a cool one, like Perendev has been done right finally. One notices that the magnets of the rotor are entirely covered by the farthest away stator/surround, the middle one seems to be about 3/4 covered, and the one closest to the demonstrator are about 1/2 covered. It's very interesting.

Robert (AG)


 

   
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@chrisC

Maybe you should think about what you post or take time to wipe the flux from your eyes and out of your ears. Maybe demagnetize your brain while you're at it.

OK, I know you are the smartest person on the block and nothing can be run past you without you understanding perfectly what is going on. I mean you are so wise and full of experience.

So here it is in a nice easy to understand block diagram of how Romero set-up his device for Video 3. ALL PLAIN TO SEE BY ANYONE WILLING TO SEE IT.

Sooooooooo......... Mr. Smart Ass, tell me what the DC converter is doing in this diagram? Give me one good explanation instead of complaining.

You are simply a fool to think that you have to have an exact build to know what is going on with the wheel. Just juvenile thinking.

Maybe if you figured out that I am on your side here and not on Romeros because when stuff stinks in Video 1 and 2, and rots in Video 3, the buffet will wind up being pretty stale for everyone no matter how nice the table looks.

Romero thought all of us here are just a bunch of dumb asses that would never figure out how he made his videos. He even complained about Wire X on his forum. He is the one who used them and tried to hide them, not me. So go and blame where the blame belongs. Or maybe you do not have the guts.


@penno64

You should start a new thread on that and we will see.

wattsup


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@AG,
Great objectivity.

Also
The division amongst us causes descension.
This doth produce commradarie not.


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Get over it folks. I appreciate Wattsup's work and great attention to detail. We seldom agree but that changes nothing.

As an example: The 'two resistors' are visibly three. Connecting resistors in parallel, as is shown, is a common practice. So is replacing these with the proper 'single' one, later.

That single resistor may not have color code band.
 
   
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Shorting the second motor coil (turned ON by the periphery magnets) is pretty much the same thing as driving the coil to produce opposition to the rotor, because the induced EMF voltage in the coil and the battery voltage ADD in polarity, so the current through the coil rises faster according to di/dt = V/L.

However, if he simply shorted that coil without actually supplying voltage to the circuit, than it does not explain the rocking back and forth of the rotor at start up.  So I conclude that what we thought all along still holds:   he simply drives that coil in opposition.

EM


PS.   @wattsup,  your diagram shows the input and the output of his DC2DC converter connected to the same wires, this will not allow him to switch the converter to different voltage levels, as he clearly demonstrated in his second video,  regardless of the fact if we believe he had hidden wires or batteries.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I had a look at the 3rd video to see if there was any evidence of tampering with the DC2DC converter box; I could not see any.

.99


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@chrisC

Maybe you should think about what you post or take time to wipe the flux from your eyes and out of your ears. Maybe demagnetize your brain while you're at it.
....
Sooooooooo......... Mr. Smart Ass, tell me what the DC converter is doing in this diagram? Give me one good explanation instead of complaining.

...

wattsup


Well Wattsup. I'm not the first to say you don't know much if anything at all. Romero himself stated this about you in his previous message: "@wattsup
for long time I had a good impression about you and your posts and I tought you have good knowledge in understanding a real thing from the unreal.The fact that you cannot understand and succeed in making any OU device does not mean you are right."

My issues with you is not whether you are trying to prove a fake. Quite rightly you should and we will all benefit. But, instead of proving without a shadow of a doubt, you character assassinate Romero for being a fake. This is a LOW class act. Not only are you not skilled at all in electronics, you write as if you knew the solutions; often babbling about stuff you have no ideas. We call people like you clowns.

Look at the diagram you you painstakingly drawn to show you're a smart ass. When have you seen a DC-DC converter hooked up like this? Shows you know nothing about electronics. Get a Electronics for Dummies book. They're a good educational book, even for clowns.

I am not diplomatic like most other people. If I was I will not be in my job of suing B$ companies to force them to take a license for my patents. But I do detest clowns who assassinate other people because they wanted to prove their worth.  I am writing this from Hong Kong a good 13 hours ahead and I have not been able to be online much for the past 3 weeks.  Get yourself a life and try to learn something before you open your mouth or write volumes of trash.

cheers
chrisC
   
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I had a look at the 3rd video to see if there was any evidence of tampering with the DC2DC converter box; I could not see any.

.99

I have gone all through that one as well, and see no obvious anomalies (other than the rearmost rod top remaining unseen). I suppose if one really wanted to fake it, they could also put in a dummy coil or two in the mostly unseen areas, which hid some batteries, but there's no way to know.

I have a near identical converter unit here (except for branding, the Maplin one, by Nikkai, had a friend from UK bring me one over he came to the states). It has two rather unique screws holding it together on back. I haven't torn it apart due to that, so I cannot say how hard it is to open, or if prying afterwards would be needed once the screws are removed. Somebody at OU did do a teardown though. Would note that if there are batteries in there, leaving the L.E.D. lit at time mark 0.14'ish was a nice touch. I'd feel a lot better about this one if it was also running the same lamp visible in the other two.

Wish the one party who truly knows would illuminate things more than they have chosen to.
   
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