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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Inductive Kickback Circuits > The Death of the Lenz Law
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Author Topic: The Death of the Lenz Law  (Read 170348 times)
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img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #100 on: 2011-02-23, 19:24:37 »
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Quote from: ramset on 2011-02-23, 09:38:29
MH
Did you miss the "Ismael is a gifted electrical engineer part"?
Saudi Arabia Microwave Tech "Wiz kid" Part?

I thought you said we needed to work a week with an EE?

I'm confused.....................................

I wanna go work with Ismael!!

Chet

Chet:

The dude is almost certainly not an engineer, you really should try to evaluate claims with a critical eye.

MileHigh
   
img  Chet K
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #101 on: 2011-02-24, 00:12:29 »
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HHMMMmmmmmm
The coil thing {antenna} is looking suspect,...... size for application ,people sitting on it [near it].
Etc
But he's a business man,showing his unique, world changing [Aquarious age}proprietary wares out in public?

?
Chet
   
img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #102 on: 2011-02-24, 01:11:43 »
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Quote from: ramset on 2011-02-24, 00:12:29
HHMMMmmmmmm
The coil thing {antenna} is looking suspect,...... size for application ,people sitting on it [near it].
Etc
But he's a business man,showing his unique, world changing [Aquarious age}proprietary wares out in public?

?
Chet

There are no high-energy-density electromagnetic fields in the 700 MHz to 1.5 GHz range that are pervasive in the environment such that we could pick them up with an antenna and use them to power something as big as a car.  If there were it would be like walking around inside a microwave oven.  By the same token there is no such thing as picking up a carrier wave and using that to suck up extra electromagnetic energy from nowhere.

The whole thing is complete and utter nonsense.
   
img  Chet K
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #103 on: 2011-02-24, 01:20:10 »
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MH
Yeah, Yeah I know,
I'm still going with the smoke and mirrors business man covering his A$$

I brought a couple movies

Laurent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QanbffVFZPU


Romero
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYaPvGipao4




  
   
img  Chet K
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #104 on: 2011-02-24, 02:13:23 »
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img  darkspeed
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #105 on: 2011-02-24, 02:20:47 »
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Quote from: ramset on 2011-02-24, 02:13:23
Feature presentation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC_0-0YutKI

I want to see a spin down time with and without the output coil on the board.
   
img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #106 on: 2011-02-24, 02:40:51 »
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Does this sound familiar:

Quote
Why does the inductive kickback light up the LEDs?  Because a discharging inductor acts like a current source.  That means you could put one LED, two LEDs, 10 LEDs or 50 LEDs in series, it doesn't matter, they will all light up.  The more LEDs there are the less time they will light up.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stefan read my comments and that's where the suggestion came from.

Quote
I want to see a spin down time with and without the output coil on the board.

The spin-down will last longer if the output coil is not there.  There is Lenz' drag on the rotor when the output coil and LEDs are there.  Just because Romero can't hear a noticeable change in the sound from the spinning rotor doesn't mean that the rotor speed is unaffected.  The power required to light the LEDs has to come from somewhere.

MileHigh
   
img  Chet K
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #107 on: 2011-02-24, 03:12:30 »
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                                             Death to the Lenz!!

                                            
   
img  Magluvin
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #108 on: 2011-02-24, 03:17:44 »
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Quote from: MileHigh on 2011-02-24, 02:40:51
Does this sound familiar:

I wouldn't be surprised if Stefan read my comments and that's where the suggestion came from.

The spin-down will last longer if the output coil is not there.  There is Lenz' drag on the rotor when the output coil and LEDs are there.  Just because Romero can't hear a noticeable change in the sound from the spinning rotor doesn't mean that the rotor speed is unaffected.  The power required to light the LEDs has to come from somewhere.

MileHigh

I think Romero has good ingredients to start with. His rotor is good and heavy, 6 disks thick, and the magnet arrangement worked well.
I believe there is drag for sure. The flywheel effect works well.

I want to see input numbers. His 1 stator is getting it up to speed very good.

I think he is getting very decent charge with the distance from the rotor. Next would be to add more charge units, and it looks as if you could combine them to 1 cap. 3 more charge coils, will we hear the drag?  ;]

I like it.

Mags
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #109 on: 2011-02-24, 06:20:28 »
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@Ramset
Quote
Folks that have seen things they can't understand or explain in conventional terms will seem way outside the box to folks that havent seen it!
I would agree, I use a little trick I learned many years ago that speeds development, I once read it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert. So I considered that if I worked through the fundamental issues of any given technology every waking moment in the back of my mind that I would solve the problems faster. What I found was that the only reason what we call "expertise" takes so long is because we forget half of what we learn when we are not thinking about it or actively doing it. Thus long term continuous though and practise on any given subject is not only faster it is exponentially faster. This is one reason I don't buy into the BS of labelling people by their occupation or years in any given occupation because in many cases it means nothing. Another aspect is creativity, there are people who are creative and create new things and new technology and there is everyone else -- the wanna-be's who obviously resent them. If anyone is wondering if they are creative they just need to ask one question--- what have you created recently?, if the answer is nothing then you are not a creative person,lol. It is an age old issue, there are people who learn, understand and create new things and their are people who simply repeat the same actions and thoughts over and over, repetition is not creative. It should be obvious that experience and intelligence(IQ) play a minor role in respect to perspective and creativity because all the experience in the world will not help us create anything new and that is what matters in technology.
One real example I have seen recently is the "windbelt" technology, a 20 year old builds a "new" wind generator with no rotating parts, no gears, no silly propellers only a piece of fabric that flutters(aeroelastic flutter) in the wind. It is supposedly capable of breaking the $1/watt theshhold even in small scale installations which makes it comparable to larger machines. Now if all these so called experts with thousands of years of combined expertise are so damn smart then why didn't they think of it? -- because they couldnt that is why. Great new idea's matter, living in the past and repeating the same mistakes over and over does not.

Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #110 on: 2011-02-24, 08:31:43 »
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Just for fun, I noticed something that Doug Konzen (Konehead) wrote about the Ismael system:

Quote
It doesnt really matter if someone sits near that anntenae obviously,  its sort of recent add-on feature and is NOT whre the power "comes from" it is jsut an additional thing he added on recently...he told me there are three Power supplies - there are
1)pikcup winds,
2)shorting of coils 5 times at peaks where the oscialltion peaks themselves get shorted - and this is how he gets the exponential power increase and this is the heart of the system..

Point #2 above is what's of interest here.  I am going to assume that Doug believes that statement and he has believed it for years.  I am also going to assume that lots of people around here believe it too because Ismael and Doug say it is true.

So I will issue a challenge to any experimenter out there that believes that this is true and wants to make a test jig to find out if it actually is true.  I think that would be an interesting project and I am sure that myself and others around here would be willing to help one of more persons make a test jig to do that.  It could be as simple or as fancy as you want to make it.

Here's Doug's version of a system like this:

http://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/shorting-coils-circuits

Doug shows a schematic but he doesn't show a real jig or any experimental data.  So the challenge is to see if this proposition is true or not.

I can suggest a preliminary plan of attack:

1.  Take your pick-up coil and measure how much energy it stores versus the current flowing through it.  I just designed a coil energy measuring circuit as we speak.
2.  Then put the pick-up coil in a Konehead-type of setup (or whatever you design) and measure how much energy you can extract from the coil with the shorting system.  If anybody has a Bedini motor then they at least have a setup to fly magnets by the pick-up coil.

If somebody actually did this I think Konehead would be in for a surprise.

MileHigh
   
img  Chet K
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #111 on: 2011-02-24, 12:29:54 »
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MH
I'm going to ask you to have a look into Chetty's world again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc

This "Moment" [9900 celsious ,sonoluminescence]

Whether I do it with a coil a hammer ,perhaps a "wind"?

THAT MOMENT........................is harvest time!
The door has been opened........................
Keep it open!!!!!!!

I believe It can be done ONLY BECAUSE THE BUG DOES IT!
Some folks make a lot of sence when they play with the Hammer [pulse]
open the door and keep it open .

It may take a big "Wallop"[energy] to open the door,but after that, I think the beast can just be tapped on the chin.
perhaps others will talk more about this,
Chet
PS
Actually I know they will,Its what where talking about
@AC
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
As always "they are provoking"
« Last Edit: 2011-02-24, 12:58:37 by ramset »
   
img  giantkiller
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #112 on: 2011-02-24, 17:23:01 »

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
The shorting coil circuit is actually a 1 cycle stun gun. It is the same ckt that Dr. Rife demostrates into sheets of steel screen. The level is the only thing that changes in the application.
The pistol shrimp deals stunning blows which disorients the brain communications. The Rife circuit deals micro blasts to the harmonically tuned DNA which realigns the DNA into a natural form alginment other than a misalignment formed by ingested or absorbed chemicals that promote radical alignments thereby causing organ failures. The outcome of the misalginments are labled in accordance as to what or where indentified. The misalignment is all the same. This last statement is what Rife promotes is the root cause to attend to. Not putting salted bandaids on recurring wounds.

Which brings me to AC's creativity statement. When a person who is not creative and they say 'I see' they are looking with their eyes. When a 'Creative' person says 'I see' they looking with their mind.
A creative person can formulate the next step before it is seen. All others can only repeat because they need the next step to happen before they can understand to approach the process. The Bible promotes 'Not by sight'. Think about that! If you can...


http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tesla/esp_tesla_17.htm
« Last Edit: 2011-02-24, 17:51:27 by giantkiller »


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http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/
   
img  EMdevices
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #113 on: 2011-02-24, 19:01:01 »
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I like that DNA realighnment concept.  I'm going to shock myself this weekend   :P
   
img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #114 on: 2011-02-24, 19:14:27 »
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Chet:

I think we discussed the Pistol Shrimp a few months ago.  It's pretty cool but energy is conserved.  There is no door that opens up that let's you harvest extra energy from "somewhere."  The high temperatures and sonoluminescence are actually microscopic and all part and parcel of the energy trail. I think you also get a similar kind of luminescence when you bite into a Certs candy.

Giantkiler:

Quote
The Rife circuit deals micro blasts to the harmonically tuned DNA which realigns the DNA into a natural form alginment other than a misalignment formed by ingested or absorbed chemicals that promote radical alignments thereby causing organ failures. The outcome of the misalginments are labled in accordance as to what or where indentified. The misalignment is all the same.

Are those statements directly from Dr. Rife or are they from the modern interpretation of Dr. Rife?  Either way it sounds totally far out to me!  I wouldn't be surprised if a DNA researcher would say that the Dr. Rife stuff is just medical quackery.

Quote
Which brings me to AC's creativity statement. When a person who is not creative and they say 'I see' they are looking with their eyes. When a 'Creative' person says 'I see' they looking with their mind.
A creative person can formulate the next step before it is seen. All others can only repeat because they need the next step to happen before they can understand to approach the process. The Bible promotes 'Not by sight'. Think about that! If you can...

I certainly can think about that.  You are just doing the old semi-disguised bashing of scientists and engineers accusing them of not having any imagination and not being creative and just repeating what they read in textbooks.  That's a total crock of shit.

MileHigh
   
img  giantkiller
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #115 on: 2011-02-24, 19:56:43 »

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
@MH,
Maybe if you keep pressing the Enter key things will change.

Since you are all knowing and all seeing then:
Riddle me this then Factman: From whence does this energy that you know nothing about come from? Do you contest Tesla? Or is this a boundary you know not to cross?
Do you pry and ply to keep the boasters on to gleen the final design to encumber with yourself?
Why don't you step into the ring with the biggest of the big boys and openly denounce what you cannot conceive of?

Quote
Magnifier Transmitter

Of a truth, dielectric energy was native source of incredible proportion and virtually eternal duration. Able to use such a kinetic source, one could dispense entirely with the Power Transmitters necessary in stimulating and impressing "extra pulsations" on the aether flow. Tesla often defined the dielectric field as a natural flow of aether particles, one that seemed impossible to utilize through lack of appropriate resistive materials. In order to obtain momentum from the flowing particles of a dielectric field, one required special matter poised in equally special symmetries. The otherwise continuous flow could be absorbed directly, being exchanged to utilities, appliances, and other applications.

Tesla had already considered the condition of charged particles, each representing a tightly constricted whorl of aether. The force necessarily exerted at close distances by such aetheric constrictions was incalculably large. Aetheric ponderance maintained particulate stability. Crystalline lattices were therefore places within which one could expect to find unexpected voltages. Indeed, the high voltages inherent in certain metallic lattices, intra-atomic field energies, are enormous. The close Coulomb gradient between atomic centers are electrostatic potentials reaching humanly unattainable levels. By comparison, the voltages, which Tesla once succeeded in releasing, were quite insignificant. In these balanced lattices, Tesla sought the voltages needed to initiate directed aetheric streams in matter. Once such a flow began, one could simply tap the stream for power.

 

In certain materials, these aether streams might automatically produce the contaminating electrons, a source of energy for existing appliances. One could theoretically then "tailor" the materials needed to produce unexpected aetheric power with or without the attendant detrital particles. Tesla did mention the latent aetheric power of charge forces, the explosive potentials of bound aether, and the aetheric Power inherent in matter. In these studies, Tesla sought replacement for the 100,000,000 volt initiating pulses which natural law required for the implementation of space aether. Tesla had long been forced to abandon those gigantic means by other, less natural laws.

Thereafter, Tesla shifted his attentions from the appreciation of the gigantic to an appreciation of the miniature. He sought a means for proliferating an immense number of small and compact aether power receivers. With one such device, Tesla succeeded in obtaining power to drive an electric car. But for the exceptional account, which follows, we would have little information on this last period in Tesla's productive life, one that very apparently did not cease its prolific streams of creativity to his last breath. The information comes through an unlikely source, one rarely mentioned by Tesla biographers. It chanced that an aeronautical engineer, Derek Ahlers, met with one of Tesla's nephews then living in New York. Theirs was an acquaintance lasting some 10 years, consisting largely of anecdotal commentaries on Dr. Tesla. Mr. Savo provided an enormous fund of knowledge concerning many episodes in Tesla's last years.
 

« Last Edit: 2011-02-24, 20:29:35 by giantkiller »


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http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/
   
img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #116 on: 2011-02-24, 20:02:24 »
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Quote from: giantkiller on 2011-02-24, 19:56:43
Maybe if you keep pressing the Enter key things will change.


It looks to me like you are pressing the Escape key.
   
img  giantkiller
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #117 on: 2011-02-24, 21:04:58 »

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
There is no escape, only truth.

Quote
Marconi was the son of a wealthy Italian landowner and an Irish mother When interest in his first transmission in 1895 had not interested Italian authorities, he had gone to Britain. The Marconi Wireless Telegraph Company was formed in London in 1896 and Marconi made millions off his inventions.

Same all over the place.
« Last Edit: 2011-02-24, 21:33:17 by giantkiller »


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http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/
   
img  giantkiller
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #118 on: 2011-02-24, 22:04:57 »

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Do you see a sideshow or a purpose?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dzLGASozwM&feature=related[/youtube]


---------------------------
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/
   
img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #119 on: 2011-02-24, 22:17:43 »
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Quote from: giantkiller on 2011-02-24, 22:04:57
Do you see a sideshow or a purpose?

How about you tell me what you see first?  I am more curious than you.
   
img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #120 on: 2011-02-24, 22:49:55 »
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Quote from: giantkiller on 2011-02-24, 19:56:43
@MH,
Maybe if you keep pressing the Enter key things will change.

Since you are all knowing and all seeing then:
Riddle me this then Factman: From whence does this energy that you know nothing about come from? Do you contest Tesla? Or is this a boundary you know not to cross?
Do you pry and ply to keep the boasters on to gleen the final design to encumber with yourself?
Why don't you step into the ring with the biggest of the big boys and openly denounce what you cannot conceive of?

I never said that I was all knowing and all seeing and I reject the negative connotation implicit in that statement.

Quote
From whence does this energy that you know nothing about come from?
You tell me what energy you are talking about and you tell me where it comes from.  If you are going to ask a question then just ask a straight question.  You cannot pose questions with uncertainties and questions implicit within the question.  How do you know that I don't know anything about it when you are not even clearly stating what energy you are talking about?  See Giantkiller, you pose a bogus question and I throw back a bunch of questions about the question to you.  Typically you then won't answer and as a result the debate goes nowhere and nothing gets accomplished.  How was that for an answer?

Quote
Do you contest Tesla? Or is this a boundary you know not to cross?
Is that the "Tesla Bogeyman" boundary or is that just another spur of the moment philosophical question that requires deep contemplation?  There is nothing to cross and I will explain why.

I am not a Tesla fanboy, and the research and technology that he developed has largely been superseded by newer technology.  That's progress for you.  Everything that Tesla did was 100% conventional.  He was also a showman and did "fancy tricks" to raise money.  The stuff in your quote strikes me as possibly being "fictionalized pulp press Tesla prose."  There is a whole cottage industry that has been developed around Tesla and he has been seriously embellished to sell paperback books.  Tesla is like a kind of Elvis figure.  Even if Tesla wrote about esoteric things like "aether streams" he could have been playing his audience like a Carney to raise money or just been plain dead wrong.  I don't think Tesla ever "got" Einstein and the same goes for Edison.

Quote
Do you pry and ply to keep the boasters on to gleen the final design to encumber with yourself?
I don't know because I can't understand the question!

Quote
Why don't you step into the ring with the biggest of the big boys and openly denounce what you cannot conceive of?
Tesla is not nearly as big as you think he is.  He is a small cottage industry kind of guy.  Just to repeat, with respect to all of the tangible experiments that Tesla did, they are all conventional.  I give him a lot of credit for being one of the first to explore a lot of stuff and do innovative research.

MileHigh
   
img  Chet K
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #121 on: 2011-02-25, 00:38:31 »
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Some movies from the front!

Stefan
Quote:

2 New emails from Ismael:

The  test Video result . The motor 11Kw powered by wall outlet or  conventional supply = 45% effeciency only & my Ecar technology  125%.

Repelling force Test. conventional lifting a kilo by means of ordinary low speed  motor up 33 feet & my repelling force 1:4 ratio. means if I consume 100 watts the conventional 400watts.

Video within few hours , but we made it in a fast forward mode. To see what happening inside the testing lab. 

heres  the link of my TV interview

http://gmanews.tv/video/74270/ub-filipino-inventor-nakadevelop-ng-self-charging


Aviso E car test result by DOE & DOST

   
Here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cJW2On1E54


=============

Regards, Stefan.
   
img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #122 on: 2011-02-25, 04:14:47 »
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Chet:

I watched the DOST & DOE testing clip.  They had the car putting out about 400 mechanical watts at about 8 Km per hour.  I assume that's about typical for a car.  They didn't seem to test at a more reasonable city street driving speed, say 60 Km per hour.  I am just going to guess that the dynamometer would normally be set to a few kilowatts of mechanical load at that speed.

That's not so important for now, because any results should be applicable and interesting.

What I didn't really get the sense of in watching the testing clip was how well the measurement of the electrical power supplied to the Ismael system was done.  You saw a few ordinary looking scopes, etc, but that's all.  You can't really measure the battery output power with an ordinary scope.

They are promising a DOST report next week.  I see a potential big pitfall here.  I am going to assume that the DOST shop was not set up to make precise battery output power measurements during the dyno testing.  It's not their area of expertise and they appeared to leave that part to Ismael's people.  That's a conflict of interest if that's true.  You could see how the dyno test system the DOST people used was made to monitor a gasoline engine.

So the big question is related to the equivalent battery output power measurements and who did them and how well will they be documented.  I didn't get a sense that those measurements were being made in a serious fashion in the clip.

I will try to watch the clip a second time tomorrow.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2011-02-25, 07:57:47 by MileHigh »
   
img  Chet K
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #123 on: 2011-02-25, 16:43:10 »
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Some more data for Lunch !

hartiberlin
»Quote
New email from Isamel:

Testing figure

Testing DATA 5 

Test1.

Meralco: 1,300watts/  6.4amps./  223 V    Dyno: 291 Newton /  570 watts

Aviso tech: 308 watts/  13amps / 23.74 v  Dyno :210 Ntwn / 418 watts


Test2

Meralco: 2000watts/ 9.5Amps / 227V  V  Dyno: 455 Newton / 931 watts

Aviso tech: 306 watts/ 13amps / 23.6V     Dyno: 210 Newton / 402 watts

Test3

Meralco: 2,300watts / 10.98amps / 229V  Dyno: 507 newton / 1,100 watts

Aviso tech: 306 watts/ 13amps/ 23.56 V   Dyno: 200 Newton / 389 watts

We drive outside few 100 meters & back again to LAB & again some testing, due
to they found two sets of batteries 7amps/12V in front of the Car. I told them supply only for   
FAN & Microcontroller, but they don't believe so we test again for the 4th time & confirmed
no connection powering the motor & drops of volts & increase of current draw. Very minute
draw of current only either on or off of the motor.

Note: Actual Average time testing of AVISO tech 5 minutes. Two minutes running  allocated for the
        DYNO computer setting up.

 

Testing of repelling force.

6 times Conventional way of lifting a 1kilo coil & Using conventional small 12V DC low speed motor.

Height : 12 feet
Average Time to reach 12 feet :   0.9 sec.
Average Current draw :  0.93 amps
Battery : 12V / 24AH
 
FYMEGM repelling force by AVISO TECHN. 1Kilo coil

3 times repelling Battery start at 12.48 V end up 12.29V

Average Height: 26 feet
  "         Time: 1 sec
Battery: 9 V + 1.5V AA + 1.5 AA = 12volts

Note: I am Not satisfied re: the Height reached, but i don't have time to adjust to full power.

I told them, Once I recieve  the enough funding. Next test will be 110 Kilometers per hour & until battery
 it run down.

Ismael
   
img  MileHigh
Re: The Death of the Lenz Law « Reply #124 on: 2011-02-25, 22:51:15 »
Group: Guest
There are too many unanswered questions about the preliminary data.  For example, assuming the forklift motor that's in the car runs on 24 volts, how are they converting the 220 volts AC into 24-volt DC?  There is supposed to be a more formal report released next week so we will wait and see.

The big fat issue looming over the report is that if it comes from the government testing lab it may only contain the dynamometer data and nothing about the electrical power data.  From looking at the LCD monitor that's part of the dynamometer testing system you can see that it's designed to make measurements on vehicles with gasoline powered engines.

MileHigh
   
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