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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Solid-State Generators > Magtap by LaserSaber
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Author Topic: Magtap by LaserSaber  (Read 11842 times)
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img  ion
Magtap by LaserSaber « on: 2011-01-11, 20:54:33 »
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Here's a video that Lasersaber posted that may verify a possible effect regarding  operation of the Hans Coler device and a few other devices e.g. the Daniel McFarland Cook coil, Roy Meyers etc.

He has found a measurable (although very small) source of DC current in an iron loop having remnant magnetism.

Quite an interesting effect. Any thoughts anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ssUTRbRRs&feature=channel


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #1 on: 2011-01-11, 21:25:34 »

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found these on OU

sounds like residual eddy current (an artifact)
   
img  ion
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #2 on: 2011-01-12, 16:54:09 »
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Wow...I'm surprised no one found this as a significant discovery. An DC EMF with no apparent motional cause. A solid state battery effect. Granted the output is very low, but this discovery could be the tip of an iceberg if fully developed and harvested.

Why do I and Lasesaber find this significant? Are we missing something?


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  darkspeed
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #3 on: 2011-01-12, 17:05:44 »
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Is this not Seebeck effect?

can he do it without the coils?
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #4 on: 2011-01-12, 18:14:43 »

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Quote from: ION on 2011-01-12, 16:54:09
Wow...I'm surprised no one found this as a significant discovery. An DC EMF with no apparent motional cause. A solid state battery effect. Granted the output is very low, but this discovery could be the tip of an iceberg if fully developed and harvested.

Why do I and Lasesaber find this significant? Are we missing something?

If it is just an artifact, then it cannot be exploited.   Also, there are far more interesting things that go ignored.
   
img  giantkiller
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #5 on: 2011-01-12, 19:42:19 »

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I am with you on this.

If there was a power feed into this circuit would it not resonate and feedback, thereby self destruct?
If there was a loopback into the circuit could it sustain itself longer?

In looking at his coils I would like to see down inside one for a battery. Just checkin' for chicken...

Quote from: ION on 2011-01-12, 16:54:09
Wow...I'm surprised no one found this as a significant discovery. An DC EMF with no apparent motional cause. A solid state battery effect. Granted the output is very low, but this discovery could be the tip of an iceberg if fully developed and harvested.

Why do I and Lasesaber find this significant? Are we missing something?


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img  Grumpy
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #6 on: 2011-01-12, 20:25:32 »

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Quote from: ION on 2011-01-12, 16:54:09
Wow...I'm surprised no one found this as a significant discovery. An DC EMF with no apparent motional cause. A solid state battery effect. Granted the output is very low, but this discovery could be the tip of an iceberg if fully developed and harvested.

Why do I and Lasesaber find this significant? Are we missing something?

Hmm.  Thinking about this a little more.  If this direct current is caused by some sort of residual rotating region of "stuff" - like a distant cousin to a superconductor where the current keeps spinning forever once started - then this gets interesting.

So, does orientation of the ring the the earth matter?  Orientation to magnetic poles of earth?  Does polarity change if flipped over or anything related to a change in orientation?
   
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Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #7 on: 2011-01-12, 21:14:02 »
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G

You will have to watch the video to "get it". No power is applied except for a brief initial pulse to establish the remnant magnetism. Then he probes around and the effect is an EMF on opposite sides of the neutral point.
Don't know if it suffers an orientation problem. He doesn't get into that.


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Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #8 on: 2011-01-12, 21:54:29 »

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Quote from: ION on 2011-01-12, 21:14:02
G

You will have to watch the video to "get it". No power is applied except for a brief initial pulse to establish the remnant magnetism. Then he probes around and the effect is an EMF on opposite sides of the neutral point.
Don't know if it suffers an orientation problem. He doesn't get into that.

I understood that no power is applied continuously, but to have a current, "something is changing", and since this current is "rotating", I posit that "something is rotating" so that the region is homogeneous yet still changing and inducing a current.  Since the region is homogeneous, you will not detect it by a means that requries a variation in magnitude.  You would have to use a method that relies on a variation in position, such as a concentric capacitor with the rotating region between the concentric surfaces.

EDIT:
An ether vortex would cause this and if appers to be inside the material.  In this example it occurs where the material is "bent" and the magnetic field is also bent and one side is stronger than the other.  This uneven magnetic field creates an additional force perpendicular to the magnetic field, which happens to be the vector between positive and negative potential.  Coincidental?
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #9 on: 2011-01-12, 22:18:42 »
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Just poked my nose in here and took a look at the video.  Interesting. However, I'm not convinced that anything special is really happening here.

This is how I see it. The initial dc pulse magnetises the iron bar and keeper, which, if hard iron, will then remain magnetised until the magnetic domains in the bar eventually become disorient or are caused to become disorient by an external influence.  I don't see that any kind of current needs to be flowing, it's just a magnetised hard iron bar.  Now, LS mentions the possibility of the Bloch Wall, which in fact makes perfect sense at the precise point where he is seeing the current flow.  However, current from the Bloch Wall will only manifest if the two probes are moving (however slightly) about the Bloch Wall point.  So no current should be evident even at the Bloch Wall if the probes are held perfectly still.  Determing this would be my first priority.

   
img  AllPhase
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #10 on: 2011-01-12, 23:06:18 »
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I wish he would measure the voltage across the coils AFTER he has it magnetized.

After what he showed so far, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a significant voltage across the coils, with the power off.

.
« Last Edit: 2011-01-13, 01:44:33 by AllPhase »
   
img  BEP
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #11 on: 2011-01-13, 06:53:35 »
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Has anyone posting actually built a PMH that worked as reported (like the one built by LS less the voltage readings)?

Farrah has it exactly correct on the functions of the PMH. The field lines prefer to follow the path of least resistance over adding distance between themselves. Pull the keeper and the mag field dissipates (flashes a light bulb if you have one connected).

There is no current flowing in the wires while the PMH does the 'holding'.

As far as the tiny voltage readings go... I would expect them to be found at a bend in the metal (compressed metal on one side and stretched on the other side) or where there is a difference in the metal surfaces from one side to the other. Both would make an opportunity for the Seebeck Effect. Maybe he has both going for him?

I saw some discussion where he doesn't measure the voltage unless the PMH is 'holding'. There are a couple of possibilities there. I won't bore you all with them. All are like Farrah said, "Interesting. However, I'm not convinced that anything special is really happening here".

I'll respectfully disagree that a Bloch Wall is involved.

I do wish I had built a PMH to Ed's exact specs. Maybe Something more would have manifested itself.
   
img  Rob
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #12 on: 2011-01-13, 11:21:17 »
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Would be interesting to try same measurement with the core deactivated
in case this is a galvanic voltage being measured by disimilar metals as its so small?
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #13 on: 2011-01-13, 11:50:17 »
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WW, I thought the Seebeck Effect was due to dissimilar metals being heated at their junction?

Anyway, here's something anyone can try if you have a suitable MM.

Using a Fluke MM set on the microA range, I can get a current reading from a 40mm x 8mm rod neo.  My Fluke showed a current of up to 5uA from just contacting the magnet with the probes. The current level altered when my probes were in different areas of the magent, but 5uA was seen when my probes were on the rod ends.

I guess you will need a sensitive MM with a uA range to see the effect, but it is there. Have to say though, I'm not at all sure why this should be the case or indeed what actually causes this effect.
   
img  ion
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #14 on: 2011-01-13, 15:33:13 »
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Several possibilities exist here. I first considered thermoelectric effects and thought there might be some differential heating causing the effect. Besides Seebeck effect, consider Thompson effect combined with Hall effect.

If the effect disappears when the remnant magnetism is lost, it could point to a combination of Hall combined with other thermoelectric effect. Normalizing the ambient across the device will rule out thermal effects.

Best way to test would be with permanently applied electrodes and the assembly placed in a styrofoam insulated container. Differential thermals must be at a minimum, this would include heating from ambient light.

I am quite familiar with low level instrumentation in the uV area having designed a lot of thermocouple preamplifiers, linearizers and electronic reference junction compensators. There are many pitfalls to be avoided.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: Magtap by LaserSaber « Reply #15 on: 2011-01-13, 16:49:28 »
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Quote from: ION on 2011-01-13, 15:33:13
Several possibilities exist here. I first considered thermoelectric effects and thought there might be some differential heating causing the effect. Besides Seebeck effect, consider Thompson effect combined with Hall effect.

If the effect disappears when the remnant magnetism is lost, it could point to a combination of Hall combined with other thermoelectric effect. Normalizing the ambient across the device will rule out thermal effects.

Best way to test would be with permanently applied electrodes and the assembly placed in a styrofoam insulated container. Differential thermals must be at a minimum, this would include heating from ambient light.

I am quite familiar with low level instrumentation in the uV area having designed a lot of thermocouple preamplifiers, linearizers and electronic reference junction compensators. There are many pitfalls to be avoided.

My neo was ouside in a very cold green house, but my handling it would certainly have created hotspots, which certainly has to be considered. 

Any pitfalls I fell into with measuring the uA, I daresay LS also fell into!
   
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