Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy?

Author Topic: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? (Read 4624 times)

Topic Options

F6FLT

Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « on: 2025-03-21, 17:31:44 »

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member

Posts: 2161

https://phys.org/news/2025-03-generate-electricity-earth-rotational-energy.html

If we're at the center of the earth in a fixed (non-rotating) inertial frame of reference, we see any conductor on the earth's surface crossing the earth's magnetic field with a speed depending on its latitude. The conductor's charges are therefore subject to the Lorentz force, and if the conductor is properly oriented, a voltage will develop along its length.
However, this voltage causes a rearrangement of the charges and a new static configuration develops (extremely rapidly), cancelling out the electric field.
If we carry out the analysis from the conductor's frame of reference, i.e. rotating with the earth, it's identical: we don't see the Lorentz force since v=0 in our own frame of reference, but we do see an electric field E equivalent to that VxB seen from the center of the earth, with the same consequence of charge redistribution preventing us from circulating current.
After the well-known observation that no energy can be extracted from the Earth's magnetic field, the authors provide the key to getting around the problem, but I confess I'm having trouble following them.

"The extremely rapid and continuously ongoing field cancellation within any conductor appears to make it impossible to use the 𝐯×𝐁 force to generate electricity even for the m=0 components of Earth's field. However, Eq. (12) hides an implicit assumption that can be violated [2]. Since ∇x∇𝑉=0 always, Eq. (12) cannot be satisfied within a magnetically permeable object with a topology chosen to ensure ∇x(vxB)≠0 (13) within the object. The inequality of Eq. (13) holds, for example, in the interior region 𝑎<𝜌<𝑏 of a magnetically permeable conducting cylindrical shell of inner and outer radii 𝑎 and 𝑏 (with 𝜌 the radial coordinate in a cylindrical coordinate system centered in the shell), and long axis perpendicular to 𝐯 and 𝐁 (see Fig. 1)."

Why? If anyone understands, please enlighten us. For me, this is incompatible with relativity, where it can only be in the frame of reference where we see both the field B and the velocity V of the charges, that we can recover their energy.

In any case, with a 30 cm MnZn ferrite tube, they claim to produce a permanent voltage in the 15 µV range, eliminating possible temperature-related artifacts, and opening the door to possible scalability (otherwise, of course, the interest would remain purely theoretical).

---------------------------

"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

panyuming

Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #1 on: 2025-04-04, 01:59:00 »

Newbie

Posts: 26

Quote from: F6FLT on 2025-03-21, 17:31:44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZR95bXuMbQ

*earth spin generator:*

Join acclaimed TV science filmmaker Simon Holland in this captivating exploration of groundbreaking renewable energy! In this video, we delve into the remarkable innovation by a Princeton University scientist who has developed an electrical generator powered by the Earth's rotation. This incredible concept is rooted in the pioneering work of Michael Faraday, whose brilliant observations laid the foundation for modern electromagnetism.

Discover how this revolutionary generator harnesses the Earth's rotational energy to produce clean, sustainable electricity. As we face the urgent challenge of climate change, advancements like these could play a crucial role in our transition to renewable energy sources.

In this engaging documentary, Simon Holland breaks down complex scientific principles into easily digestible insights, showcasing the potential of this technology to reshape our energy landscape. You'll learn about the engineering challenges, the science behind Faraday's law of induction, and the future implications for global energy production.

Don't miss this enlightening journey into the intersection of science, innovation, and sustainability! Subscribe to our channel for more fascinating content on science and technology, and hit the notification bell to stay updated on our latest videos!

verpies

Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #2 on: 2025-04-04, 08:18:40 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member

Posts: 3695

Quote from: F6FLT on 2025-03-21, 17:31:44

In any case, with a 30 cm MnZn ferrite tube, they claim to produce a permanent voltage in the 15 µV range, eliminating possible temperature-related artifacts, ...

I will believe it if that voltage varies sinusoidally as a function of the tube's angle.
It would make a novel compass.

panyuming	Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #3 on: 2025-04-04, 14:19:26 »
Newbie Posts: 26	If a copper wire generates a voltage on the earth, it cannot be measured or utilized. Because of the measurement or utilization, a closed loop will be formed, so that the total voltage = 0. If the video says it correctly: a ferrite coil can slow down electrons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZR95bXuMbQ There is a voltage difference between the power generation coil that is decelerated and the electronic speed difference between the conventional measurement circuit without deceleration or the circuit using the circuit.

F6FLT	Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #4 on: 2025-04-04, 17:03:10 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2161	Quote from: panyuming on 2025-04-04, 14:19:26 If a copper wire generates a voltage on the earth, it cannot be measured or utilized. Because of the measurement or utilization, a closed loop will be formed, so that the total voltage = 0. Quote If the video says it correctly: a ferrite coil can slow down electrons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZR95bXuMbQ There is a voltage difference between the power generation coil that is decelerated and the electronic speed difference between the conventional measurement circuit without deceleration or the circuit using the circuit. What we do know is that a closed rigid circuit crossing a constant magnetic field produces no current. The reason is obvious, just consider that we have two half-circuits moving together and therefore cutting the same field, so their ends are at the same potential, consequently closing the circuit serves no purpose. This is true even if the observer on earth added an extra displacement to the circuit. So what happens if we “slow down” the electrons somewhere with a ferrite? A ferrite contains charges and also moves with the conductor. The charges in the ferrite are subject to the Lorentz force. They are also redistributed. If it is an insulator, the redistribution consists of a displacement of the electron clouds in relation to the nuclei, under the effect of E=VxB, a displacement of charges which has an influence on the magnetic field and which, we can bet, cancelling out the delay we were hoping for. This is best understood in terms of relativity. The magnetic field is a relativistic effect on the coulombic field. When all the charges are moving at the same time at the same speed, the overall effect on a rigid circuit can only be zero. It is only when one part of the circuit is mobile in relation to the other, by deformation or by sliding contacts as in the Faraday disc, that we can have an influence of electrons from one part on the other, creating the imbalance that allows a current to flow. So in the end I think they're screwing up, and that a few microvolts could be created by various artefacts. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

panyuming	Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #5 on: 2025-04-04, 22:15:55 »
Newbie Posts: 26	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzHEmphBeFM ------------------------ Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? PRTSC.bmp (7838.89 kB, 2428x1102 - viewed 312 times.) « Last Edit: 2025-04-05, 01:45:21 by panyuming »

verpies	Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #6 on: 2025-04-05, 07:36:40 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3695	Quote from: panyuming on 2025-04-04, 22:15:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzHEmphBeFM According to this video, the voltage DOES vary as a function of the cylinder's orientation angle. I mentioned this here. Also, a full rod/cyliner does NOT work but a hollow one does. Furthermore, the choice of the material matters (the ones with lower magnetic Reynold's coefficients are better, e.g.: MnZn) A larger diameter hollow cylinder is supposed to generate a higher voltage. The generated voltage is supposed to be higher at lower geographical latitudes. Last but not least, thermoelectric and photoelectric effects have been ruled out. P.S. Electrons moving 30cm in a billionth of a second (1ns) is plausible but stretched, however moving this distance in a billionth of a billionth (sic!) of a second (1as) is FTL.

Aking.21

Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #7 on: 2025-04-05, 19:52:04 »

Sr. Member

Posts: 494

NASA has explored generating electricity in space by "dangling" a wire through Earth's magnetic field. This concept is tied to experiments with electrodynamic tethers, notably the Tethered Satellite System (TSS) missions.
In one such experiment, during the TSS-1R mission in 1996 aboard the Space Shuttle Columbia, NASA deployed a satellite connected to a 19.7-kilometer (12.2-mile) conductive tether. The idea was to move the tether through Earth's magnetic field, inducing an electric current via electromagnetic induction—similar to how a generator works. The motion of a conductor through a magnetic field generates voltage, and in this case, the setup produced up to 3,500 volts and 0.5 amps of current. However, the experiment hit a snag when the tether unexpectedly snapped due to an electrical arc caused by the high current, ending the test prematurely.
The concept leverages the interaction between a long conductive wire and Earth's magnetic field to produce power, offering a potential method for spacecraft propulsion or electricity generation without fuel. While the TSS-1R mission didn’t fully succeed, it demonstrated the principle and paved the way for further research into tether-based technologies. Earlier tests, like one in 1993 with a shorter 1,640-foot tether, also showed promise, generating 50-100 volts in a simpler setup. These efforts highlight NASA’s innovative attempts to harness space’s natural environment for power.

---------------------------

Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Smudge

Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #8 on: 2025-04-06, 12:00:11 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member

Posts: 1979

Having now educated myself for the term advection (which I had never used or known) compared to convection and diffusion (which I had known) I can now understand where this new principle comes from. Treating magnetism moving within a permeable material acting like something (perhaps temperature or an impurity) advecting (moving in one direction) or diffusing within a fluid now makes sense. Such magnetohydrodynamics requires a magnetic Reynold's number to act like the fluid Reynold's number in a real fluid. So a lump of permeable material moving within a uniform magnetic field will have that field entering on one side and exiting on the other, hence moving within the material according to magnetohydrodynamic rules. I can envisage the field within the material moving past a conductor embedded within the material at a rate that differs from the the field outside the material moving past the return path that contains the voltmeter, hence inducing a voltage reading. What I cannot get to grips with is their vision of the field flowing radially through their rectangular closed circuit to reach the centre point of their cylinder. I do not understand why they use the closed rectangular loop conductor within the ferrite for their math when the real closed loop that includes the voltmeter passes outside the ferrite. In my view their internal path could be a single conductor, not two separate paths in parallel.

Smudge

Smudge	Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #9 on: 2025-04-06, 17:15:14 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1979	Their statement that a voltage V induced into their rectagular closed loop will result in 0.5V being seen by the voltmeter is just plain wrong, and I am surprised that this has not been picked up. It is zero. So all their calculations are just rubbish. However the fact that the external field moving relative to the ferrite is at a different velocity to the field moving within the ferrite yields an E=vXB voltage induction into a wire embedded along the tube that is different to the E=vXB cancelling induction in the external return wire with the voltmeter in series. Hence that closed loop sees an induced voltage. Using their Rm number for M60 ferrite I calculate 48 microvolts for a 20cm wire embedded in the ferrite at their earth location. Not their measured 18 microvolts but its of the right order. It should be a simple task to get a single wire running inside a ferrite rod and do the test. It doesn't have to be a tube, all their math that led them to a tube is based on their false idea that you get half a closed loop induced voltage of you connect an external voltmeter across it, so they looked for induction into their internal closed loop. Smudge

verpies	Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #10 on: 2025-04-06, 18:23:27 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3695	Quote from: Smudge on 2025-04-06, 17:15:14 It should be a simple task to get a single wire running inside a ferrite rod and do the test. I should be simple if the ferrite rod does not need to be drilled axially, e.g. by making a hollow cylinder out of a bunch of ferrite rings stacked axially. Since spin-polarized electrons cannot jump these small air gaps between the rings, will these gaps inhibit the phenomenon ? How does the length of the hollow ferrite rod affect the induced voltage, anyway ...in your opinion ?

Smudge	Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #11 on: 2025-04-07, 08:37:30 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1979	Quote from: verpies on 2025-04-06, 18:23:27 I should be simple if the ferrite rod does not need to be drilled axially, e.g. by making a hollow cylinder out of a bunch of ferrite rings stacked axially. Since spin-polarized electrons cannot jump these small air gaps between the rings, will these gaps inhibit the phenomenon ? I don't know how much the spin polarized electrons influence the "fluid" magnetic field velocity. My guess is for the ferrite it has such a low conductivity that the velocity is more influenced by its dielectric property. Doing the experiment with ferrite rings is so straightforward that it is worth doing anyway. Incidentally Graham Gunderson built a low bandwith DC amplifier that gives a 'scope the ability to measure these microvolt DC levels. He sent it to me, I passed it to Grum and he passed it to Itsu. So Itsu has this facility. For any measurement you have to null out DC offset using a control knob. When you connect it to something using croc clips the thermocouple action between the croc clip and the item has a DC voltage just from the temperature difference at the instant of connection coming from your body temperature handling the croc clip, and that drifts as things stabilise. For this experiment it needs a switch to make the connection to the circuit after the DC offset has been adjusted to zero. Quote How does the length of the hollow ferrite rod affect the induced voltage, anyway ...in your opinion ? IMO the voltage is proportional to the length of the conductor within the rod. Smudge

chief kolbacict

Re: Free electricity using Earth's rotational energy? « Reply #12 on: 2025-04-08, 06:48:30 »

Sr. Member

Posts: 310

Quote from: Smudge on 2025-04-07, 08:37:30