Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!!

Author Topic: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! (Read 14571 times)

Topic Options

web000x

Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #150 on: 2025-02-27, 20:33:34 »

Sr. Member

Posts: 340

Quote from: Magluvin on 2025-02-27, 20:13:00

i agree. in conventional circuits, everything that is in line between the source and the load, can be a loss, but only because of voltage divisions preventing the load from seeing max voltage from the source.

but in this case, lets say we charge cap A to 10v, then just short it out till 0v. did we lose 'all' the energy because of resistance? or did we lose what we once had by just letting it go? we simply discharged the cap. if there was radiation because we discharged the cap, that radiation wasnt the reason the exess electrons in the neg plate were transferred to the electron depleted positive plate for an end result of 0v, zero energ left. and also, IF there were no radiation nor any resistance, would that 10v cap still just discharge to 0v? or would you expect a better result than a 100% loss?
if so, explain.

mags

If you had no radiation nor resistance, you would have an infinite LC oscillation.

Itsu

Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #151 on: 2025-02-27, 20:53:13 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member

Posts: 4236

Quote from: gyula on 2025-02-27, 17:34:58

Hi Itsu,

In your Reply #71 https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4757.msg114752#msg114752 you used the 8V / 220V transformer already and gave the transformer specs.

The 220V coil on it has 509 Ohm DC resistance versus the CMC's 1 Ohm, this surely causes a relatively big loss in charging C3. Also the wall plug-in transformer core can have core losses at 26 kHz.

I mention this because I think we would need to consider any FG output energy leakage into the circuit via the switching transistor IRF540.
This leakage may add energy to the system and during the 48 hour run time it resulted in the data you included in Reply #129 yesterday.

Data sheet includes typical capacitance graphs versus drain to source voltage, say at VDS=2V the gate to drain capacitance (Crss=Cgd) is around 600 pF, and the other
capacitances are also included in the snapshot on Figure 5 attached from data sheet https://www.vishay.com/docs/91021/irf540.pdf

Although you did not run the test for 48 hours with the 8V / 220V transformer like with the CMC one, it is possible that the energy leakage from the FG in the same circuit
was fully consumed by the losses in the 8v / 220V transformer so the "extra" energy (or the strange behaviour) you experienced with the CMC transformer simply could not manifest (especially not in C3) (here I assume the
"extra" energy enters the system from the FG via the IRF540's capacitances).

Comments are welcome from everybody of course.

Gyula

Gyula,

thanks for that info.

Yes, the FG is able to add some power into the circuit, and a quick look on the PS shows it is consuming 9V @ 10mA (90mW).

Not sure how that pans out for additional input into the circuit (gate is pulsed with 9V pulses with 75% duty cycle.), so perhaps i can get some measurements on that gate circuit.

Itsu

Itsu	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #152 on: 2025-02-27, 20:57:46 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4236	An update on my present circuit, which just now was running for 36 hours. The below Excel sheet shows both the data (time in minutes) and the graph. We see that C1 and C2 are swapping places concerning voltage reading, (C2 is dropping at the moment) and overall we have a much less input into C3 for reasons like mentioned by Gyula (higher secondary resistance). Itsu ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! zesde.png (46.03 kB, 1230x544 - viewed 102 times.) « Last Edit: 2025-02-28, 09:07:24 by Itsu »

Magluvin

Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #153 on: 2025-02-28, 00:46:51 »

Group: Mad Scientist
Hero Member

Posts: 676

Quote from: web000x on 2025-02-27, 20:33:34

If you had no radiation nor resistance, you would have an infinite LC oscillation.

ideal caps have no resistance and no inductance. the cap is ideal, just capacitance. so no oscillation.

nags

web000x	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #154 on: 2025-02-28, 02:03:40 »
Sr. Member Posts: 340	Quote from: Magluvin on 2025-02-28, 00:46:51 ideal caps have no resistance and no inductance. the cap is ideal, just capacitance. so no oscillation. nags The only problem with that situation is that it is not rooted in reality. All of the metallic geometry constituting the capacitor will have some inductance. A current passing through the conductor will produce a stored magnetic field. Saying omit the inductance is akin to saying we are running experiments in a reality where kinetic energy does not exist and we only have potential available. Anyway, I am not trying to derail this thread with theorizing so this will be my last response to the capacitor paradox. I am genuinely curious if anyone will find an anomaly and would love for Joel to be proven right. Dave

Itsu	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #155 on: 2025-02-28, 09:12:11 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4236	I just updated my post #152 above with 36 hour data. We see both C1 and C2 decreasing and C3 increasing only barely. I think this is due to a steady state we have reached now, and the internal leakage of the capacitors together with the DMM's across them is causing this decrease. There is not much use to continue this run i guess. Itsu

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #156 on: 2025-03-01, 19:42:24 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 676	if the document the screeshot here came from is correct, then this is the transformer that should work using the cap to cap deal. i have some toroid cores that are perfect halves. so wind one half and the secondary wound on 2 other halves, the put the halves together. easier wind than a closed toroid.. basically the claim is that the 2 core rag doll is lenzless other than 'increasing' the primary inductance when the sec is loaded. normal transformers, the primary inductance will go way down when the sec is loaded. so. the same idea i had with the orbo, use the primary as the inductor to transfer all of cap A to cap B and load capC with the sec. the cap to cap paradox is key here. till now i hadnt found a good reason to use it, as all my earlier attempts over the years didnt pan out. but here also, i hadnt found a good use for the rag doll as shown, till now. if the rag doll works as described, then these 2 should be a perfect match. the cores came from an unusual scorce. at work they replaced the showroom lights. the old ones were round toroid cfl bulbs with no electrical connections. there were inductively powered with these cores with like 10 turns from a 400 out balast. anyway, i have a few of them. mags ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! 20250301_143237.jpg (3639.91 kB, 4080x3060 - viewed 70 times.) Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! Screenshot_20250301_141704_Samsung Notes.jpg (462.23 kB, 1080x2408 - viewed 69 times.)

Itsu	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #157 on: 2025-03-01, 21:15:58 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4236	Quote from: web000x on 2025-02-27, 18:51:22 I get what you're saying but in conventional circuits we are indeed losing energy to resistance or RF. Where the energy comes from in these OU circuits is the million dollar question. You said that 50% of the energy is not lost due to resistance but what I see on my bench is that it is indeed lost to just that. Something energetic is coming from a low impedance (zero resistance and/or stout copper busses) when a capacitor is discharged through them. See Gerry Vassilatos Secrets of Cold War Technology where Tesla talks of the stinging rays from large cap discharges into low impedances. Energy is leaving the circuit boundaries. Here is a quick test I did earlier with two 5600uF caps and a 30 ohm resistor. I charged the C1 up to 10V and C2 at 0V. I connected the resistor between the positive terminals of the caps and put a current probe on the wire and a voltage probe across the resistor. F3 (Purple) is a math function of CH2CH4. I took the area of F3 as indicated under the measurements tab and it aligns almost perfectly with 1/2 of the energy from the initial charge on C1. CH4 - 1mV = 1mA Initial Energy in C1 - (10^2)(5600uF)/2 = 280mJ Area under F3 = 137mJ Dave I used the same method as web000x did above, but tried to measure my 100F super caps that way. First thing i did was measuring the value of my super caps because how sure are we they are really the written 100F? Anyway, i used the method as shown here: https://youtu.be/Y1dCHwHokbw It turns out that one of my super caps (C1) loads from 1V to 2V with 1A current limit in 1 min 27sec, so in 87s, meaning its value is 87F minus 25% is 65.25F. Another one (C2) measures 97F minus 25% is 72.75F. Doing a transfer between them from 2V in C1 to 1V in both via a 0.2 Ohm resistor shows the below screenshot: Yellow the voltage across the 0.2 Ohm resistor, green the current through it, and in red the power calculated from V and I. The calculation is made of the data in between the both red vertical lines A and B and the result shown in the bottom left corner (60.37Ws or Joule). So we started with 2V in 65.25F (130 J) and ended with 1V (32.625 J) in C1 and the same energy in C2 (32.625 J) which means we lost 64.75 J which is almost accounted for by the lost power in the resistor. Itsu ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! cap paradox.png (22.11 kB, 800x600 - viewed 71 times.)

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #158 on: 2025-03-01, 23:30:04 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 676	with thes large caps, it would be hard if not impossible to do a transfer from A to B, probably even with a very large inductor. similar to my issue with the orbo toroid winding, where the caps with a value above 2uf would take the inductor to max current, max flux, before half way through the transfer. the larger the caps, the quicker to max flux n current. so with the super caps, with high internal resistance, like i said, it would be very unusual to anything higher than 50% from A to B. that resistor you were talking about, id bet if you took it out of the circuit, you would have very similar results left in A and B caps. of course the lost energy would be found in that resistor, or any other resistor value should get the same result. anything above 0ohms really. doesnt anyone find it odd that no matter the value of the resistor in the same circuit, that the lost energy is still 50%??? lets say the resistor was .001ohm. the lost energy will be found there. but i insist that the resistace is not the reason for that loss. i dont think cap b should necessarily be thought of as a load but rather an energy storage device. a 1Mohm resistor in a circuit in series with say a resistor that is the same resistance of the super cap. now replace capB with that resistor of the same resistance as the cap. i can guarantee that most all the energy is consumed by the 1Mohm resistor and it will not be 50% this time. only if the 2 resistors arebthe same value. mags

Aking.21

Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #159 on: 2025-03-02, 01:30:40 »

Sr. Member

Posts: 489

I am nearly ready to start the experiment. My preliminary tests have revealed that cap A loses potential with no connections. This decay has not been taken into account
Meanwhile, Joel has moved on as I expected.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cWOZDRh5cA

Transcript:
0:02
are you ready to power the future with
0:03
smarter energy or perhaps I bet you
0:06
didn't know we could make energy work
0:08
harder for us welcome to navua Labs
0:11
where the future of energy begins today
0:14
inspired by the great minds like Maxwell
0:16
and Tesla we're revolutionizing how we
0:18
think about power gone are the days of
0:21
Simply producing more energy now it's
0:23
about making every watt count our
0:26
mission to optimize energy for
0:28
everything from AI Data Center and space
0:30
exploration to your own home at navua
0:33
Labs we believe in unlocking the full
0:35
potential of existing energy sources
0:38
think of it as energy recycling but on a
0:40
groundbreaking level by enhancing
0:43
current systems we're creating smarter
0:45
cleaner and more scalable Power
0:47
Solutions imagine Aid driven data
0:50
centers that consume less but perform
0:52
more electric vehicles that travel
0:55
farther with less charge even your
0:57
household appliances running more
0:59
efficiently
1:00
all thanks to Innovative energy
1:02
recycling our vision is simple smart
1:05
clean energy for everyone we're not just
1:08
talking about sustainability we're
1:10
making it a reality and we're doing it
1:13
one electron at a time ready to be part
1:16
of the future join us at Neva labs and
1:19
let's power a smarter world together
1:21
Neva Labs energy
1:27
optimized in the realm of science
1:29
questioning established theories is the
1:31
Cornerstone of progress while Dogma
1:34
confines true science thrives on
1:36
curiosity and exploration throughout
1:39
history our understanding of the
1:40
universe has continuously evolved each
1:43
Discovery building upon the last what we
1:46
often consider immutable laws are often
1:48
just approximations of more complex
1:50
realities consider the humble bee a
1:53
creature that challenges our
1:54
understanding of physics bees generate
1:56
heat through rapid muscle contractions
1:59
and create an electrostatic charge as
2:01
they move through the air this charge
2:04
interacts with their environment in ways
2:06
we're only beginning to understand some
2:08
theories suggest that these oscillations
2:10
might even interact with gravity itself
2:13
potentially reducing the be's effective
2:15
weight traditional aerodynamics struggle
2:18
to explain how bees fly yet fly they do
2:22
defying our current models to explain
2:25
these phenomena we need to extend our
2:27
understanding perhaps even revisiting
2:29
fun FAL equations like Maxwell's as we
2:32
delve deeper we uncover more questions
2:35
than answers revealing the vast gaps in
2:37
our scientific
2:38
[Music]
2:41
knowledge at Neva Labs we're taking on
2:43
this challenge pushing the boundaries of
2:45
science to unravel these Mysteries
2:48
returning to historical context we
2:49
revisit the remarkable contributions of
2:52
Nicola Tesla before 1900 Tesla's
2:55
pioneering work revolutionized the
2:57
electrical industry introducing Concepts
2:59
like the rotating magnetic field and the
3:01
LC oscillatory circuit crucial for radio
3:04
transmission his Ambitions included
3:06
transmitting power wirelessly through
3:08
standing scaler waves in the earth
3:10
providing virtually Limitless free
3:12
energy unfortunately Financial backers
3:15
sabotaged his efforts fearing the
3:16
economic repercussions of free energy
3:19
Tesla's use of scalar waves specifically
3:21
Fe feel static electric potential holds
3:24
significance he understood that coupled
3:26
scalar waves formed herzan waves
3:28
indicating a more fun fundamental
3:30
electromagnetic wave theory than the
3:32
conventional electromagnetics of his
3:34
time this fundamental wave the scaler
3:36
wave is crucial to understanding the
3:38
Soviet super weapons that emerged in the
3:40
following decades Tesla's vision of
3:43
providing free energy to mankind faced
3:45
vement opposition from Financial Empires
3:48
dependent on controlling energy
3:50
production and resources perceived as a
3:52
threat to these Empires Tesla lost all
3:55
Financial backing and his laboratory was
3:57
ultimately destroyed by 1914 the once
4:00
renowned inventor and scientist had
4:01
become a forgotten nonperson isolated
4:04
from the scientific Community examining
4:06
the historical development of
4:07
electromagnetic Theory the concept of
4:09
replacing Vector Fields with two scalar
4:11
Fields as demonstrated by Whitaker's
4:13
1903 paper closely coincided with
4:16
Tesla's pioneering work despite the
4:19
foundational proof of Tesla's wave
4:21
coupling Theory existing in the hardcore
4:23
electromagnetic Theory the West
4:25
overlooked it presently the West
4:27
concentrates on the herzan wave Limited
4:29
to the speed of light C however scalar
4:32
waves such as Tesla's fif field are not
4:35
bound by this velocity the fif field a
4:38
spatial concept operates in four
4:40
dimensions and has the potential to
4:42
affect time flow while present
4:44
electromagnetic Theory assumes a
4:46
constant flow of time for everything the
4:48
F field can move at any velocity
4:49
including infinite have you ever
4:51
pondered about the immense amount of
4:53
energy we consume each day and the
4:55
pressing need for innovative solutions
4:57
across the globe our energy consumption
4:59
is skyrocketing while our resources are
5:01
dwindling it's a paradox that's begging
5:04
for a resolution we're caught in a
5:06
constant race devising ways to fuel our
5:08
ever growing energy appetite but what if
5:11
the answer lies in a realm we've
5:12
overlooked what if there's a way to tap
5:14
into a usually wasted and ignored part
5:17
of electrodynamics enter Joel's one wire
5:20
system a revolutionary method inspired
5:22
by Tesla's one wire system this system
5:25
signifies a significant shift in how we
5:27
understand and harness the power of
5:29
electron DCS at the heart of Joel's one
5:31
wire system are two diodes each with a
5:34
specific cathode and a node
5:36
configuration these dodes play a pivotal
5:38
role converting a unique field that
5:40
surrounds the wire known as the heavy
5:42
side component back into pure direct
5:45
current potential this potential has
5:47
zero current but it does have voltage
5:49
this voltage can charge small capacitors
5:51
very quickly now these capacitors can be
5:54
discharged into a load or a charging
5:56
battery this process effectively
5:58
converts this pure potential back into
6:00
real current thanks to the displacement
6:02
current effect this system does not
6:04
close the loop or offer any return path
6:06
which is a significant departure from
6:08
traditional electrical systems now you
6:10
might wonder how does this system
6:12
actually work the mechanics of Joel's
6:14
one wire system are as fascinating as
6:16
they are Innovative let's break it down
6:19
step by step first Joel connects the one
6:21
wire side of a diode to the live side of
6:24
a near zero current field of another
6:26
wire this unique wiring configuration
6:28
doesn't form a closed loop or offer any
6:31
return path which is a key factor in
6:33
eliminating backend counter
6:34
electromotive Force also known as C EMF
6:37
here's where it gets even more
6:38
interesting Joel employs antenna likee
6:41
counter Poise wires on the diodes which
6:43
work in concert with wave guide and
6:45
Reflections this clever setup is
6:47
designed to capture more of the heavy
6:49
side component a frequently ignored part
6:52
of electrodynamics harnessing the heavy
6:54
side component is no small feat it's
6:56
like fishing in a vast ocean with an
6:58
exceptionally fine net designed to catch
7:00
only a specific type of fish yet the
7:03
payoff is remarkable this approach can
7:05
generate pure potentials of hundreds of
7:07
volts now you might be wondering what
7:09
happens next well these high potentials
7:11
are not left idle they are converted
7:13
into real current through a process
7:15
called CAP dumps this involves charging
7:17
small capacitors very quickly and then
7:20
discharging them into a load or charging
7:22
battery effectively transforming pure
7:24
potential back into usable current but
7:26
what does this mean for our energy
7:28
Paradox Joel's one wire system opens up
7:31
a world of possibilities in the field of
7:32
energy it's akin to a magician revealing
7:35
Hidden Treasures only in this case the
7:37
treasure is a part of electrodynamics
7:39
that's often overlooked the heavyside
7:41
component by ingeniously converting this
7:44
component into pure direct current
7:46
potential Joel's system effectively Taps
7:48
into a virtually unused reservoir of
7:51
energy this isn't a case of creating
7:52
energy out of thin air rather it's about
7:55
utilizing an underappreciated aspect of
7:57
electrodynamics the beauty of this
7:59
system is that it doesn't stress our
8:01
input load it's like siphoning off just
8:04
enough to make a difference without
8:05
draining the source imagine the
8:08
implications for green energy and
8:09
renewable sources harnessing this
8:11
potential could revolutionize how we
8:13
generate and use electricity reducing
8:16
our Reliance on non-renewable resources
8:19
innovative solutions like Joel's one
8:21
wire system are not just remarkable
8:22
Feats of science they are Stepping
8:24
Stones towards a more sustainable future

---------------------------

Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Itsu	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #160 on: 2025-03-02, 09:38:31 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4236	Quote from: Magluvin on 2025-03-01, 23:30:04 with thes large caps, it would be hard if not impossible to do a transfer from A to B, probably even with a very large inductor. similar to my issue with the orbo toroid winding, where the caps with a value above 2uf would take the inductor to max current, max flux, before half way through the transfer. the larger the caps, the quicker to max flux n current. so with the super caps, with high internal resistance, like i said, it would be very unusual to anything higher than 50% from A to B. that resistor you were talking about, id bet if you took it out of the circuit, you would have very similar results left in A and B caps. of course the lost energy would be found in that resistor, or any other resistor value should get the same result. anything above 0ohms really. doesnt anyone find it odd that no matter the value of the resistor in the same circuit, that the lost energy is still 50%??? lets say the resistor was .001ohm. the lost energy will be found there. but i insist that the resistace is not the reason for that loss. i dont think cap b should necessarily be thought of as a load but rather an energy storage device. a 1Mohm resistor in a circuit in series with say a resistor that is the same resistance of the super cap. now replace capB with that resistor of the same resistance as the cap. i can guarantee that most all the energy is consumed by the 1Mohm resistor and it will not be 50% this time. only if the 2 resistors arebthe same value. mags Hi Mags, thanks for your view on this again. You might be right that something else must also be in play here, but for now we have to work with what we see happening on the bench. Like Web000x, i had to adjust the resistor to the caps values to have a practical way to show the result on a scope, but the outcome are very similar. Less resistance will result in higher (off the scale) initial current, more resistance will increase the time to take to equalize the voltages etc. Itsu

Itsu	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #161 on: 2025-03-02, 09:45:38 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4236	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2025-03-02, 01:30:40 I am nearly ready to start the experiment. My preliminary tests have revealed that cap A loses potential with no connections. This decay has not been taken into account Meanwhile, Joel has moved on as I expected. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cWOZDRh5cA Looking forward to your experiment. Yes, we see a decay in potential in not connected caps, like we also see an increase in potential of a just shorted cap. It's that dielectric absorption effect. Not sure what that (promotional) video is all about, but IMO it has nothing to do with Joel. Itsu

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #162 on: 2025-03-02, 11:20:32 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Another Joel video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZg6379y42I and here's a screenshot. Don Smith electron pump. ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! don smith electron pump.png (907.69 kB, 1920x1084 - viewed 76 times.) --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #163 on: 2025-03-02, 11:48:56 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	I've set up my experiment with cap1 2,600 F 2.5v. Cap 2 the same Cap 3 is 4 x 2,600F 2.5v in series. I did some preliminary tests with cap 1 into cap 2. Cap 1 was charged to 2.24 volts, cap 2 discharged. 6523 joules After a couple of hours of pulsing at 3.6kHz and 15% duty cycle I got Cap 2= 1.00 volts. 1,300 joules cap1 1.44 volts. 2.695 joules So an interesting starting point to use as a comparison. I found that when I upped the frequency to 150 khz after the experiment concluded, there were only losses and cap 2 didn't want to charge. Obviously the correct frequency needs to be found. Could be a long job. The conclusion is that discharging cap 1 to cap 2 is a mighty inefficient process with massive system losses. Next I'll wire up the transformer and do the experiment properly. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

gyula

Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #164 on: 2025-03-02, 17:17:08 »

Group: Tech Wizard
Hero Member

Posts: 1250

Quote from: Itsu on 2025-03-01, 21:15:58

...
It turns out that one of my super caps (C1) loads from 1V to 2V with 1A current limit in 1 min 27sec, so in 87s, meaning its value is 87F minus 25% is 65.25F.
Another one (C2) measures 97F minus 25% is 72.75F.

......
So we started with 2V in 65.25F (130 J) and ended with 1V (32.625 J) in C1 and the same energy in C2 (32.625 J) which means we lost 64.75 J which is almost accounted for by the lost power in the resistor.

Itsu

Hi Itsu,

Thanks for these tests. IF it makes sense, when you have time, do the same test by swapping the two caps and see how it behaves. So 2V input into the 72.75F cap.

Gyula

Itsu	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #165 on: 2025-03-02, 20:13:16 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4236	Hi Gyula, looking at my own data of yesterday, i noticed i screwed up, as i toke for both caps the same joule value at 1V, but both caps are not equal, so the joule value at 1V must be different. Doing the calculations again, i now get: "So we started with 2V in 65.25F (130 J) and ended with 1V in 65.25F (32.625 J) in C1 and in C2 1V in 72.75 (36.375 J) which together is 69 J, so we lost 61 Joule which is accounted for by the lost power in the resistor (60.37 Joule) Almost bang on. Now after swapping the caps we get: Meaning, we lost 63.03 Ws or Joule in the 0.2 Ohm resistor. So we started with 2V in 72.75F (145.5 J) and ended with 1.077V in 72.75F (42.19 J) in C1 and in C2 1.076V in 65.25F (37.77 J) which together is 79.96 J, so we lost 65.64 Joule which is almost accounted for by the lost power in the resistor (63.03 Joule). Itsu ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! cap paradox 2.png (22.3 kB, 800x600 - viewed 76 times.)

gyula	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #166 on: 2025-03-02, 21:21:12 »
Group: Tech Wizard Hero Member Posts: 1250	Thanks Itsu. Anyway, it is worth knowing the actual Farad value of super or ultra capacitors the members using. Gyula

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #167 on: 2025-03-02, 21:39:58 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	One thought I've just had. I have several DMM and they all differ by a percent or two. Does anyone have a fix for this. Can this make a huge difference in our calculations? Obviously I only use the same digital multimeter in any experiment, so the relationship is constant. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #168 on: 2025-03-03, 04:40:23 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	I've finally got my act together. The start voltages are: (I'll check the real Farads after the 1st experiment.) cap1 2.79V 2600F cap2 0.08V 2600F Cap3 0.03V 2600F x4 IN SERIES. I found an AC trafo 9v AC from 240 V mains 50Hz used in reverse, as in Lagace's video. The output voltage was 82.2V DC through a HV bridge rectifier. It was enough to light a neon, as shown in one of the photos. The FG is set at 26.5 KHZ, has a duty cycle of 75%, and is powered by the power supply in the photos. I am using a MOSFET transistor. It's good to document the experiment here for future reference. It was interesting seeing the experiment light up a neon using displacement current. ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! 1.jpg (1746.04 kB, 4128x1956 - viewed 31 times.) Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! 2.jpg (1949.59 kB, 4128x1956 - viewed 36 times.) Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! 3.jpg (49.44 kB, 527x250 - viewed 23 times.) --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Itsu	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #169 on: 2025-03-03, 10:20:41 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4236	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2025-03-02, 21:39:58 One thought I've just had. I have several DMM and they all differ by a percent or two. Does anyone have a fix for this. Can this make a huge difference in our calculations? Obviously I only use the same digital multimeter in any experiment, so the relationship is constant. Well, DMM's have their own specifications on internal resistance (10 MOhm, 1MOhm) and accuracy so best is to look those up for your DDM. If those specifications differ then not much can be done IMO other than trying to use the same DMM's in the experiment like you are doing. Itsu

Itsu	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #170 on: 2025-03-03, 10:25:23 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4236	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2025-03-03, 04:40:23 I've finally got my act together. The start voltages are: (I'll check the real Farads after the 1st experiment.) cap1 2.79V 2600F cap2 0.08V 2600F Cap3 0.03V 2600F x4 IN SERIES. I found an AC trafo 9v AC from 240 V mains 50Hz used in reverse, as in Lagace's video. The output voltage was 82.2V DC through a HV bridge rectifier. It was enough to light a neon, as shown in one of the photos. The FG is set at 26.5 KHZ, has a duty cycle of 75%, and is powered by the power supply in the photos. I am using a MOSFET transistor. It's good to document the experiment here for future reference. It was interesting seeing the experiment light up a neon using displacement current. Looking good So for C3 you have 2600 / 4 = 650F, which is lower then C1 and C2 like i also used (but lower overall values), so you might expect similar results as i had with my latest experiment. Itsu

gyula	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #171 on: 2025-03-03, 15:14:08 »
Group: Tech Wizard Hero Member Posts: 1250	Here is a link for calculating discharge time for super capacitors, this may help checking the Farad measurements. http://www.circuits.dk/calculator_capacitor_discharge.htm Howerd, As an addition to Itsu's reply on DMMs differing displays, you can buy voltage reference integrated circuits with specified output voltages of 0.5% or 1% precision (these are the cheaper types) and you can compare your DMMs using such voltage references. Here are choices: https://eu.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/power-management-ics/voltage-references/ In the Output voltage column you can select among the output voltages. and see for instance this type with 10V output voltage: https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM4040CIZ-10.0-NOPB?qs=QbsRYf82W3EnDEn4D%252BL3Kg%3D%3D Gyula

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #172 on: 2025-03-03, 17:36:44 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 676	on dmm's. for such large caps, just connecct the meter for as long as it takes to get a reading. the drain should be closer to negligable. mags

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #173 on: 2025-03-03, 18:11:17 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Results after 12 hours, which are a little strange. start C1 2.79 7254c (coulombs) start C2 0.08 208c start C3 0.03 19c Total 7481c Ater 12 hours C1 2.30 5980c C2 0.72 1872c c3 0,24 156c Total 8,008c Remember this experiment is the closest to Lagace in both the size of the caps and the use of the trafo, which is not HF but an ordinary mains ac trafo C1 and C2 are 2600F C3 is 650F C3 is 4 x 2600 F in series. I am however using the positive side of caps 1 and 2 through the FG rather than Joel's negative side. Maybe I've made an error in calculation, but the voltages are correct, In any case, when I look at the initial losses between cap1 and cap2, (if you look at one of my previous posts), this is a massive increase. The caps seem to be behaving better. However, 1 metre below this experiment is my constant mains battery charging equipment that is disturbing the electrons in the air around the experiment. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Itsu	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #174 on: 2025-03-03, 19:56:26 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4236	The calculations seem OK by me. But why do you think the results are "a little strange"? They follow a similar path (although we only have 2 data points) as in my last experiment, shown in post #152 above. But you still have a long time to go, i reckon for a complete dataset. Itsu ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! Aking.png (31.82 kB, 1088x543 - viewed 23 times.)