Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!!

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Aking.21

Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « on: 2025-02-08, 20:53:34 »

Sr. Member

Posts: 489

For the past couple of years, I have been happily generating a couple of watts "ou" unverified by peers.
I listened to Lagace and tried something and I got 4 watts. Unverified by anyone. OK, so it's time to get serious.
In order to understand Lagace, you have to understand electrostatics. Especially electrostatic induction as applied to capacitors.
There is no ou. The term is itself misleading. The term cop>1 would be more appropriate.

1 Have a really good look at his latest video and poke as many holes in it as you can.
2 What I need is a simple circuit that uses a cheap frequency generator to switch a circuit on and off. That's it. Has anyone got a schematic? I have various transistors and a few cheap Chinese frequency generators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c7llvTjlwQ

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Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

web000x

Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #1 on: 2025-02-09, 01:19:48 »

Sr. Member

Posts: 340

You're saying that you have reproduced Joel's work and it is worth spending a few hundred dollars on super caps to pursue this experiment? Can you elaborate on what your experimental setup was?

Thanks,

Dave

Grumage

Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #2 on: 2025-02-09, 15:02:57 »

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Posts: 2782

Hi Dave.

I’m not sure that any great expenditure is necessary…. As I see it he is discharging a large value capacitor into an empty one of the same value via a transformer winding. ( using a simple electronic switch)

The secondary winding is charging up a large capacity capacitor bank. Surely any value of capacitance would suffice? After the pair have reached equilibrium a note of voltage and current passed through a known resistance will give the final value for the energy transfer.

Have I missed something important Guys??

Cheers Graham.

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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

web000x	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #3 on: 2025-02-09, 15:28:49 »
Sr. Member Posts: 340	Joel says that he's tried it with conventional electrolytic caps but only had success with the super caps. I have loads of large bus caps from old VFD's that I have repaired but haven't set up the experiment due to his statement. Dave « Last Edit: 2025-02-09, 17:41:59 by web000x »

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #4 on: 2025-02-09, 17:25:18 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	I don't remember Joel saying that ordinary caps don't work. My take was that ordinary caps don't appear to give much energy and are hard to quantify. I'll give more details about my experiment in a bit. My advice, based on years of experiments, is to set up a capacitor bank and use that. When you pulse caps, at least one thing will happen. This has been verified independently by Grumage and me. We both have or had a setup where once the device was shut down, it would not! and kept running for ten minutes or so! This is because the dielectric absorption of the caps was supercharged. Both of us run or ran spark gaps! I think Grum has dismantled his setup, but, based on his discoveries I have modified mine, and was able to delete a troublesome thyristor. As Elon Musk says - good engineering is when you can delete a component, because there is no cost and no possibility of failure. That is the starting point to note. Now I need a simple circuit that uses a frequency generator to drive a transistor to use as an on-off switch. Look guys, this is the start. Kapanadze uses exactly the same principle. Number 2: Joel says that intercepting the wiring with a trafo enables you to harvest energy that does not conventionally load the trafo. It is seen by the circuit as a system loss. He recommends that the trafo is less than 4 ohms. I tried it and it works. So, one way of looking at it is you are tapping into a reactive current circuit with a slight resistance (less than 4 ohms) but getting real power out of it without loading the circuit. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Magluvin

Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #5 on: 2025-02-09, 19:54:02 »

Group: Mad Scientist
Hero Member

Posts: 675

Quote from: Aking.21 on 2025-02-08, 20:53:34

For the past couple of years, I have been happily generating a couple of watts "ou" unverified by peers.
I listened to Lagace and tried something and I got 4 watts. Unverified by anyone. OK, so it's time to get serious.
In order to understand Lagace, you have to understand electrostatics. Especially electrostatic induction as applied to capacitors.
There is no ou. The term is itself misleading. The term cop>1 would be more appropriate.

1 Have a really good look at his latest video and poke as many holes in it as you can.
2 What I need is a simple circuit that uses a cheap frequency generator to switch a circuit on and off. That's it. Has anyone got a schematic? I have various transistors and a few cheap Chinese frequency generators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c7llvTjlwQ

1. first hole to poke is, what is the actual value of the caps in the small bowl. we can read the value of caps A and B, but not C.i

2. the transformer. if cap A is pulsed to cap B through the transformers secondary(2v rating) and the primary (110v if not 220v) winding ouputing to cap C, then i fail to see enough current getting to the 3rd cap in order to charge 'higher' than cap A began with. i can only see this happening if caps C is of a much lower value than cap A and B.

mags

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #6 on: 2025-02-09, 20:13:56 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 675	but, i would like to see your angle on this. mags

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #7 on: 2025-02-09, 22:39:32 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Quote from: Magluvin on 2025-02-09, 20:13:56 but, i would like to see your angle on this. mags I am not using Joel's system, but a variation of Duncan's when he told us about charging a battery from the mains. I am aware that battery behavior is unpredictable because there are chemical processes involved. Also, a battery can die unexpectedly. However, I have seen enough to encourage further experimentation. My only meter used is a mains wattmeter. Constantly registering zero draw. I'll show a pic when I've time. But, when you put Joel's experiments, together with Kapanadze's schematic, it all starts to make more sense. ie Where is the energy coming from? We all know that capacitors charge up by themselves. My take is that this is a form of electrostatic induction. Now.... one pulse is not useful energy. But.. a hundred million pulses a second? Kapanadze constantly told me that his system relied on high frequency. So the puzzle starts to make sense. Now have another look at a simplified version of Kapanadze's circuit. I have removed the start-up sequence that consisted of a switching system. Instead of focusing on the coil side, have a look at l1, which is where the initial "magic" happens. There, staring at you is the capacitor and high-frequency generator! I am sure that we have all looked at Kapanadze videos intensely. Have you ever seen his capacitor and high-frequency generator? He may have had a big cap hanging around in his first video but it was not on the table. My opinion is that a focus on both the coils and Tesla was classic misdirection to protect the secret. Incidentally, the voltages are my guess in the schematic. Now add to the fact that Don Smith spilled the beans before he died and talked about caps getting energy from the electric background through electrostatic induction, and the puzzle has even more evidence. So, where do Joel's revelations fit in? He is essentially telling us where the energy is coming from. It is up to us to figure out a circuit. So, has anyone got a good schematic for a frequency generator-controlled on-off switch? ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! kapa simplified.png (330.92 kB, 1217x718 - viewed 161 times.) --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #8 on: 2025-02-10, 05:08:26 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 675	in his vid of the 2 caps, A and B, both the same value, and caps C in the bowl, of which we cannot say for sure its value, he is not using high freq at i think 75% duty. if the vid is legit, he is not implying high freq as you speak of, 100mhz. i have that sig gen he has in the vid. 150k max, and not so square up in the freq above 100k. but good for general lower freq stuff. electrostatic induction. without knowing what it is yet, i imagine multi plate caps, with more than 2 leads off of it.. what is your version of it? mags

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #9 on: 2025-02-10, 07:04:21 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Quote from: Magluvin on 2025-02-10, 05:08:26 in his vid of the 2 caps, A and B, both the same value, and caps C in the bowl, of which we cannot say for sure its value, he is not using high freq at i think 75% duty. if the vid is legit, he is not implying high freq as you speak of, 100mhz. i have that sig gen he has in the vid. 150k max, and not so square up in the freq above 100k. but good for general lower freq stuff. electrostatic induction. without knowing what it is yet, i imagine multi plate caps, with more than 2 leads off of it.. what is your version of it? mags AAh, well here's the thing. If you charge one plate of a capacitor, the environment charges the other plate for free. By putting a charge on a plate, you create an imbalance in nature. Re Lagace. Yes he's getting good results, and I think we should replicate those. But better will come at a higher frequency, but we have to start somewhere. It also appears that if you ground the uncharged plate it works better. If you think about it, in an on-off situation, you are only ever pulsing one side. Put it this way, I think it is the best lead we have ever had that gives us a path to figuring out ou. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azDFR5RwVkA Now if we can turn the grounding on and off cheaply, what do you think will happen? In the following video I show you what happens when you repeatedly pulse a capacitor bank. In this case, I was using a spark gap as the on-off switch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBR2tOTsyfg --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #10 on: 2025-02-10, 18:57:34 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 675	does it cost anything to charge the 1 plate? mags

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #11 on: 2025-02-11, 00:05:10 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Quote from: Magluvin on 2025-02-10, 18:57:34 does it cost anything to charge the 1 plate? mags Of course, the first time. If you pulse the ground on and off then in theory you should get charges from the environment. I''m only quoting Don Smith, Rick Friedrich, Lagace and others. All I can suggest is to try it and find out. That's what we should be doing on this forum anyway. My understanding is that if you pulse one side, the environment gives back an equivalent amount, so then it is up to you to configure a circuit. The modus operandi is electrostatic induction, which is generally overlooked in electronic engineering as a potential energy source. Yet I'm sure we've all experienced an unexpected static shock at some point in our lives. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #12 on: 2025-02-11, 00:36:49 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 675	as i was thinking earlier, say we had a 4 plate cap and 2 plates in the middle as the output cap and 2 plates on the outer side, like a 4 layer sandwich. so the outer plates, well insulated dielectric, having constant charge maintained, given their close proximity to each inner plate, would electrostatically induce the inner plates. so we take the charge from the inner plates to a load, output, and let it recharge because of the outer plates constant charge, as the outer plates never actually discharge. dunno. sounds feasible. if we have a diode across the middle cap that allows electrons to be shifted from one plate to the other during the induction. does that make sense? mags

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #13 on: 2025-02-11, 16:28:26 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Quote from: Magluvin on 2025-02-11, 00:36:49 as i was thinking earlier, say we had a 4 plate cap and 2 plates in the middle as the output cap and 2 plates on the outer side, like a 4 layer sandwich. so the outer plates, well insulated dielectric, having constant charge maintained, given their close proximity to each inner plate, would electrostatically induce the inner plates. so we take the charge from the inner plates to a load, output, and let it recharge because of the outer plates constant charge, as the outer plates never actually discharge. dunno. sounds feasible. if we have a diode across the middle cap that allows electrons to be shifted from one plate to the other during the induction. does that make sense? mags Yes, there are many ways to tame this science. In his first patent, Kapanadze uses a three-plate capacitor! I've just remembered he once told me he would have to make one component himself. I don't like a dielectric if it is: as in an electrolytic capacitor. An electrolytic capacitor behaves more like a battery in that it passes current. The choice of a well insulated dielectric has to also be considered because many of them have either a positve or negative charge. That is where the science gets a little complicated. But not hard. It just needs a bit of research; that is very easy these days. So obviously the type of caps used in this research have to be more thoroughly researched. A good reference point is that the earth ground appears to be negative. Also remember that attaching a diode will transmit charge on the outside of the diode and can act as a short. So the diode has to be turned on and off at the very minimum. Remember static behaves very differently from Kirchhoff's laws. If you take a good look at the Kapanadze device in Aquarium 2 you will see that he isolates the static side from the electricity transmission side. I think you've understood the science, and good luck. Don't give up. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #14 on: 2025-02-11, 22:17:18 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Here is Lagace's schematic and video still. Based on his comments here is the analysis. Power used 1.96 - 1.78 = 0.18 volts at 500 F = 1/2 C.Vsq = 8.1 joules or .00225 watts Power received = 2.51 @10000F = 31,500 joules or 8.75 watts I question the size of his receiving capacitors, but still food for thought. If anyone knows the capacitors used - that would be useful information. Of course, we haven't included the power used by his function generator although there will be some switching losses from the transistor. I have modified to include a revised schematic Have at it - and constructive criticisms are welcome. ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! JoelLagace.png (1296.04 kB, 1366x1006 - viewed 159 times.) Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! Lagace schematic (2).png (6.07 kB, 408x191 - viewed 347 times.) --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #15 on: 2025-02-11, 22:39:15 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Please note: I have modified the original schematic to include the bridge rectifier --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #16 on: 2025-02-12, 00:51:03 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 675	one thing about the 4 caps. the size of the 2 single caps is 5F, but the 4 caps if you look, they are in series. if the value of the 4pack is suppose to be 10F, then each, being smaller in size than the 5F caps, would have to be 40F each..... series caps lower the total capacitance, parallel increases it. so im really not trusting that. 40F would be much larger than he has there. but im still interested in what you present here.. mags

web000x	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #17 on: 2025-02-12, 01:46:59 »
Sr. Member Posts: 340	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2025-02-11, 22:17:18 Power used 1.96 - 1.78 = 0.18 volts at 500 F = 1/2 C.Vsq = 8.1 joules or .00225 watts You can't linearly take the difference between the starting and finishing voltage of the primary cap. Since energy stored in the capacitor is a function of the square of the voltage, you would have to calculate it like this: (1.96V^2 - 1.78V^2)*500/2 = 168.3 J Quote from: Magluvin on 2025-02-12, 00:51:03 one thing about the 4 caps. the size of the 2 single caps is 5F, but the 4 caps if you look, they are in series. if the value of the 4pack is suppose to be 10F, then each, being smaller in size than the 5F caps, would have to be 40F each..... series caps lower the total capacitance, parallel increases it. so im really not trusting that. 40F would be much larger than he has there. but im still interested in what you present here.. mags The two caps are 500F each and then he claims the charge recovery cap bank is a set of 10000F which is ambiguous verbiage. He needs to show his values on camera. I have a hard time believing he is getting an energy increase of 31500J/168.3J = 187 COP. I'll be following along this thread but won't be putting a lot of energy into this myself unless someone can show that it is worth it. Dave

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #18 on: 2025-02-12, 03:49:08 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Quote from: web000x on 2025-02-12, 01:46:59 You can't linearly take the difference between the starting and finishing voltage of the primary cap. Since energy stored in the capacitor is a function of the square of the voltage, you would have to calculate it like this: (1.96V^2 - 1.78V^2)500/2 = 168.3 J The two caps are 500F each and then he claims the charge recovery cap bank is a set of 10000F which is ambiguous verbiage. He needs to show his values on camera. I have a hard time believing he is getting an energy increase of 31500J/168.3J = 187 COP. I'll be following along this thread but won't be putting a lot of energy into this myself unless someone can show that it is worth it. Dave Some calculation revisions. Chat GPT suggested they may be 10,000F supercaps (Photo enclosed) 4 in series gives us 2,500 F @2.51 volts = 6,275J or 2.1875 watts However, there was energy recovery in cap b* Primary cap a = 168.3 J - secondary cap b ie 10% loss? say (- 18) = 150 J therefore net consumption = 18.3 J So, revised figures give a net input of 18.3 J Output Power received = 6,275 J or 2.1875 watts Net COP 342 ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! U5bIiDS.jpeg (73.48 kB, 1366x768 - viewed 159 times.) --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

web000x	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #19 on: 2025-02-12, 04:14:43 »
Sr. Member Posts: 340	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2025-02-12, 03:49:08 However, there was energy recovery in cap b Primary cap a = 168.3 J - secondary cap b ie 10% loss? say (- 18) = 150 J therefore net consumption = 18.3 J You would need to know the start and finish voltage of that second 500F capacitor to make any meaningful calculations in that regard.

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #20 on: 2025-02-12, 04:29:26 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 675	lol. yeah i messed up the values. when i do sims on this, i use smaller values and get quicker results. thanks for pointing that out. my mistake. but still, either values, it doesnt look good. but the electrostatic induction has my attn. mags

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #21 on: 2025-02-12, 04:53:38 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 675	having trouble finding caps 10,000f. just see web sites claiming graphene caps back in 2015. those 500f caps are big in comparison to the alleged 10,000f caps. but if they make them, i want one. mags

web000x	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #22 on: 2025-02-12, 16:38:38 »
Sr. Member Posts: 340	This might be the capacitor he was using for the charge receiving bank. It comes in various capacities including 10KF. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/new-technology-500f-1000f-3000f-5000f_1600129821347.html?gQT=1 Edit: Upon looking more closely, the radial package depicted in the image doesn't seem to be available in a 10KF size. It says the package is a snap in style at that capacity. However, the radial package does look similar to what he was using in the bowl so maybe he is just using a smaller capacity.

Magluvin	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #23 on: 2025-02-12, 17:26:14 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 675	it would take 20 500f caps to equal 1 of those smaller ones mags

Aking.21	Re: Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! « Reply #24 on: 2025-02-12, 17:37:05 »
Sr. Member Posts: 489	Quote from: web000x on 2025-02-12, 04:14:43 You would need to know the start and finish voltage of that second 500F capacitor to make any meaningful calculations in that regard. I agree. But as a back-of-the-envelope calculation, the only thing that matters is that we are getting energy out of the background environment. And that this input is in useable quantities. Also, when analyzing Don Smith, Kapanadze, or any other of the "OU" claimants, one cannot rely on Kirchhoff's or Ohm's law only. We have to account for input from the environment. In my video, I and Graham have proved beyond any doubt that this is a fact. And that this energy is in the form of useable quantities. I can demonstrate this fact anytime. The device is in my room right now. It works every time. Every single time. I think we should get Joel on this forum and thank him for highlighting the effect. He may not know how it works, but we do. That in my opinion is a breakthrough. Here's the circuit diagram. Once you replicate it you'll be convinced. Just remember to turn it off once the caps have been conditioned. Conditioning may take several hours. Be careful when you turn it off because it is still charging up the caps in lethal quantities from the background environment. Incidentally, I have just looked at Kapanadze's first patent with the three-pate capacitor and now understand it. Thank you to Joel, for providing the evidence. Modification: You don't need a three gap spark gap to prove the tchnology. Just ignore the lead leading to the third spark gap connection. ------------------------ Checking out Joel Lagace - Hang on I'M SERIOUS!! Grumage King simplified.png (44.23 kB, 632x600 - viewed 145 times.) --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KV charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?