RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy

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sergh	RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « on: 2024-04-08, 13:43:37 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	Hi all! Whatever it is, we will continue. I need to remind myself and everyone.. Time frame is about 5 years. While searching in patent databases, I came across several interesting patents on which promising experiments (at that time $:-\$ ) were carried out. Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water - production of hydrogen without electrolysis. Process for producing hydrogen: https://patents.google.com/patent/SU807584A1/en?oq=SU807584A1 Amount of Calcium Oxide Powder: 200 grams The amount of water vapor present in the reactor: 50 grams Pressure in the reactor: 0,87 atmospheres (But about the pressure in this patent, it is not entirely clear. If you study other patents of this author, there are indications that in the process of preparing "calcium hydroxide" he lowered the pressure to 0.01 atmospheres) Method for hydrogen production: https://patents.google.com/patent/GEP20074038B/en?oq=GEP20074038B Abstract: A method comprises heating water vapor together with the catalyst at pressure 8,0-10,0 atm. The received mix is cooled during (3-5)х10-3sec. up to temperature 70,0-80,00С and simultaneously with it pressure is lower up to 0,5-0,7atm. Then by means of addition water vapor hydrogen is isolated and process is repeated. Amount of Calcium Oxide Powder: 200 grams Pressure inside the reactor: 0,5 - 10 atmospheres Temperature 70 - 400 Celsius Water 100 ml Amount of hydrogen: 0.66 - 0.72 % from the water, or 0.66 - 0.72 grams hydrogen, 7788 cubic centimeters of gas, 84 kilojoules if burned. Thermolysis of water in contact with zeolite masses: https://patents.google.com/patent/US3963830A/en?oq=US3963830 Catalytical process for obtaining hydrogen from water: https://patents.google.com/patent/RO95468B1/en?oq=RO95468B1 About zeolite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2DSI-v9k8c Quantum field as a hypothetical energy source for reversible chemistry: https://digital.sandiego.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=phys-faculty Quote ..when a real molecule is placed between such plates, its energy levels behave in strange ways. And this latest paper demonstrates that with a photochemical rearrangement – the reaction rates change completely depending on whether or not the starting material is confined in the right sort of space, and they change exactly as the cavity is tuned more closely to the absorption taking place. In effect, the molecule is now part of a completely new system (molecule-plus-cavity), and this new system has different energy levels – and can do different chemistry. The photochemistry shown is not exciting per se, but the fact that it can be altered just by putting the molecule in a very tiny box is exciting indeed:... https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2012/09/14/chemistry_in_the_quantum_vacuum_no_really Possible Role of Oxides in the Fleischmann-Pons Effect: Jean-Paul Biberian, Iraj Parchamazad and Melvin H. Miles Aix-Marseille University, France, University of LaVerne, LaVerne, CA, U.S.A., https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.380.2981 Method for producing oxygen and hydrogen from water https://patents.google.com/patent/US4278650A Quote Water is fed into a high temperature pressurized vessel containing hydrated large-port mordenite having a high Si/Al ratio and containing a cation that is selected from a specified group of metals and that is in its highest oxidation state. The high temperature causes an endothermic redox reaction that produces oxygen gas and, as a solid reaction product, a large-port mordenite wherein the metal cation is in a lower oxidation state. The solid reaction product is passed through a heat exchanger, where it is cooled and then into a second pressurized reaction vessel at low temperature whereby there occurs an exothermic redox reaction that produces hydrogen gas and which oxidizes the cation back to its highest oxidation state. The large-port mordenite generated in the second reaction vessel is passed through the heat exchanger, where it is heated, and then back into the first reaction vessel for recycling. Pressurization is employed in the reaction vessels to prevent dehydration and this, together with the composition of the mordenite and the use of the heat exchanger, provides high thermal efficiency. Dynamical Casimir effect in metamaterial converts vacuum fluctuations into real photons: https://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.html Zero-Point Energy extraction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLEJTaY307E Unlocking Zero-Point Energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tGRhTXKh8A Zero-Point Energy Demystified: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh898Yr5YZ8 Zero Point Energy \| Dr. Thorsten Ludwig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCvbqMGPpa8 Not only water, but carbon dioxide: https://patents.google.com/patent/SU1011511A1/en Method of catalytic decomposition of water: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7357912B2/en Quote Preferable solid acid catalysts and the solid base catalysts are particles having 1 to 50 μm. The main component of the solid acid catalysts is silicon acids, and the main component of the solid base catalysts is at least one of alkali metal compounds and alkaline earth metal compounds. Preferable silicon oxides are alumino-silicates. The solid base catalyst contains at least one oxide of K, Mg, and Ca. The temperature of water is 130° C. or higher. alumino-silicates - same as zeolite Thermolysis of water in contact with zeolite masses: https://patents.google.com/patent/US3963830A/en Near the RO95468B1 patent. Method for producing oxygen and hydrogen from water https://patents.google.com/patent/US4278650A/en dynamic version Catalyst for production of hydrogen or oxygen: https://patents.google.com/patent/JPH10263397A/en Production of gaseous hydrogen by direct thermal decomposition of water and device thereof: https://patents.google.com/patent/JPH11171501A/en Catalyst for producing hydrogen and oxygen and method for producing hydrogen and oxygen by thermal decomposition of water https://patents.google.com/patent/JP3939389B2/en Hydrogen gas generating method: https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1245531A1/en to be continued..

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #1 on: 2024-04-08, 14:34:59 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	Design of the first experiment that produced a small amount of hydrogen without electrolysis. Used equipment and materials: 1. Oil vacuum pump, creates a vacuum of up to 0.5 mm. hg or less 2. Test tube made of quartz glass with heater and thermocouple for temperature measurement. 3. Hydrogen sensor for Arduino based on MQ-8 4. Natural zeolite - clinoptilolite with ions of other elements. The sensor unambiguously registers hydrogen. Features: 1. The temperature of the beginning of the process is 420 - 430 degrees Celsius. Below almost never happens. Better if the temperature reaches 500 - 520 C. 2. Vacuum. The pressure must be not higher than minus 99.5 kPa.With a pressure of vacuum is higher minus 99 kPa, nothing happens. 3. The quality of zeolite is not critical. It is possible to use cat litter, if it contains natural zeolite. Almost the same effect. Even ordinary lime can be used, but the effect will be much lower. ------------------------ RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy ex11.jpg (77.21 kB, 1123x572 - viewed 520 times.)

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #2 on: 2024-04-08, 14:39:27 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	Design of the second experiment, which produced a small amount of hydrogen at normal pressure, without heating to high temperature and without a special vacuum pump. Added alternating high-voltage current to obtain a barrier discharge. Such as in ozonizers or in plasma balls. When test run without zeolite - no or very little amount of hydrogen. ------------------------ RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy 22.jpg (106.46 kB, 1192x646 - viewed 486 times.)

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #3 on: 2024-04-08, 14:51:48 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	Season three, changes relative to season two: 1. The vacuum pump from medical syringes was replaced with one hydraulic cylinder. The hydraulic cylinder has 2 chambers. When the piston moves, a rarefaction of air is created in one chamber, and air is compressed in the other. If you combine these chambers with valves, you get a two stage vacuum pump. The first valve first stage was installed with electrical switching, as mechanical "aquarium" valves do not work at low pressure. At low air pressure, there is not enough force to press the spring in the valve. With some physical effort, it is possible to set the vacuum gauge needle at -100 kPa with the help of such a pump. 2. I do not use water heating. The room is +22 Celsius, water at reduced pressure boils without heating. 3. Heating the tube is also not needed. The tube is heated by itself from the barrier discharge. 4. The central conductor in the tube was placed in a thin glass pipe. 5. Added an air inlet pipe to a jar of water. Through a valve that can finely regulate the air flow, I supply a little air in the water to ensure air circulation with steam. If there is only steam, there is very small amount of gas at the outlet, the pressure does not increase. Results: It is possible to achieve a concentration corresponding to 2.2 and even 2.3 Volts max at the output of the MQ-8. This voltage probably corresponds to a concentration of about 3000 - 3500 ppm. But considerable physical effort is required. In general, of course, the system is far from optimal. It is necessary to do something so that the steam cyclically enters the zeolite in a significant amount, and then the remaining steam and reaction products are cyclically pumped out. So far I somehow do not understand how to implement this. The main difficulty is that relatively low pressure is required to produce hydrogen. Most simple pumps are not suitable for such pressure. Of course, you can use an two stage rotary vane vacuum pump, but this is inefficient and the output will contain oil.

chief kolbacict	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #4 on: 2024-04-08, 18:22:59 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	Quote from: sergh on 2024-04-08, 14:51:48 The main difficulty is that relatively low pressure is required to produce hydrogen. Most simple pumps are not suitable for such pressure. Of course, you can use an two stage rotary vane vacuum pump, but this is inefficient and the output will contain oil. Let's use 10m. vertical tube which is fill of your water. In the top of closed tube will be your pressure.

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #5 on: 2024-04-09, 07:55:15 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	Hm.. Anyone who is interested should check the water from a well or tap for the presence of hydrogen. Simply pour fresh tap water into a jar, place the hydrogen sensor above the water, and close the jar with a lid. Probably in mountainous areas dissolved hydrogen can be released from water. Well water is usually very dirty. Clay, fine sand, and probably small zeolites may also be present in such water. The problem is the (small) amount of hydrogen and the possibility of production “on demand”.

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #6 on: 2024-04-09, 08:37:31 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	"Elucidating the Roles of Electric Fields in Catalysis: A Perspective" - near to this topic. High voltage Field-Assisted Catalysis, quantum effects: https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1772334 https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1772334 Big text, about practical results - from p.39

chief kolbacict	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #7 on: 2024-04-09, 12:38:54 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	Make a centrifugal water pump impeller from zeolite. There will be areas of both high and low pressure there. Insulate the impeller and apply high voltage to it. We will obtain in the output water for our needs and a little hydrogen.

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #8 on: 2024-04-10, 07:00:46 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	Remember, I wrote that this does not work with liquid water. My attempts to obtain any detectable amount of hydrogen from vibrations in liquid water were unsuccessful. Do not understand why. Some statistical or fundamental limitations. 2 factors are needed: 1. Cyclically variable low pressure. Very low, almost a vacuum. 2. High temperature over 400 degrees Celsius. It is better if it is heated to 500 Celsius. Preferably cycled with low temperature. High temperature can be replaced by a volumetric electrical discharge such as a barrier discharge or glow discharge. In a vacuum it works like a plasma ball. With liquid water...? Of course it would be interesting and it would be a breakthrough. But how? It is impossible to heat liquid water to 500 Celsius in a vacuum. We need some difficult solution. Not obvious. Could it somehow create a barrier or glow discharge in water? But I don’t know how this is possible, there is no information. For my experiments I found interesting device, like this: https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005005219509060.html The motor pulls the piston out. The piston then disengages from the gear and is quickly compressed by the spring. Like an automatic water gun or sprinkler. A small amount of water can be added to the pump exhaust trought the built-in peristaltic pump. I plan to use it as a prototype for experiments. Although the device is quite weak. Can anyone tell me where something similar is used, or in a more powerful implementation?

chief kolbacict	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #9 on: 2024-04-10, 08:30:15 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	I have a lot of old inkjet printers. peristaltic pumps are installed at the bottom in all. But they are very weak as well.

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #10 on: 2024-04-12, 13:50:34 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	There are different types of peristaltic pumps. But in the previous message, an ordinary cylinder with a high compression ratio, and an additional peristaltic pump plays an auxiliary role and is not needed for the experiment. Zero Point Energy and How Could it Change the World https://www.inverse.com/article/35077-wtf-is-zero-point-energy

F6FLT	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #11 on: 2024-04-12, 14:30:21 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Since the ZPE is the minimum energy level, and using energy means reducing that of the source, the idea of using the ZPE is even more extravagant than inventing a Maxwell demon. When those like Neel V. Patel who talk about it can provide even the slightest experimental proof of concept, we may change our minds. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Smudge	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #12 on: 2024-04-12, 15:22:59 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: F6FLT on 2024-04-12, 14:30:21 Since the ZPE is the minimum energy level, and using energy means reducing that of the source, the idea of using the ZPE is even more extravagant than inventing a Maxwell demon. I would agree with you if we lived at that zero point temperature of 0K. But we don't, so we have something like 290C degrees of temperature to play with before we reach that point. That is a lot of local heat energy well above ZPE as a source. Smudge

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #13 on: 2024-04-15, 09:00:37 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	Quote from: F6FLT on 2024-04-12, 14:30:21 When those like Neel V. Patel who talk about it can provide even the slightest experimental proof of concept, we may change our minds. Proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode You can even buy this device and check: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=tunnel+diode ZPE can probably be thought of as a low potential energy, but with large energy flux. If this energy came from some geometric point source, it would certainly be small. But what if energy is released from the entire volume of space? How many tunnel diodes can be produced per square millimeter? 10 - 1000 - million? How many tunnel diodes can be produced per cubic millimeter using the same technologies as flash drives are now produced? And why produce something like that at all, if there are ordinary molecules that can, under certain conditions, be changed due to the ZPE? You cannot get energy directly from a tunnel diode, since in this diode this ZPE only adds conductivity. But what will happen to the molecule into which conductivity from this energy is added? Under normal conditions nothing will happen. We exist with these and do not observe anything like this. But under certain conditions it is still possible to use this energy. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232703935_Autocatalytic_and_Cooperatively_Stabilized_Dissociation_of_Water_on_a_Stepped_Platinum_Surface If the optimal catalyst and conditions are chosen, it is probably possible to turn redox reactions in the direction of lower entropy. ------------------------ RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy tunnel_diode.jpg (103.22 kB, 1537x714 - viewed 324 times.)

F6FLT	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #14 on: 2024-04-15, 14:11:42 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	@sergh Proof of what?! Questions of potential or conductivity or non-continuous energy extraction have no relevance to what I said. Whether it's a question of a tunnel diode, an ordinary diode, a gravitational or electrical potential, thermal agitation or any other kind of agitation cannot give rise to rectification. According to the current theories the energy balance will always be zero over a cycle. Quote If the optimal catalyst and conditions are chosen, it is probably possible to turn redox reactions in the direction of lower entropy. A gratuitous assertion. So I'm still waiting for this experimental proof-of-concept of permanent energy extraction from the ZPE or a single thermal bath, which would be in opposition to the known laws of nature, which impose symmetry and therefore the impossibility of maintaining a permanent imbalance. I'm not saying that the idea shouldn't be explored, but that for the moment there are no experiments to back it up, only interpretations of experiments that are too partial to be conclusive. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

chief kolbacict	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #15 on: 2024-04-15, 18:04:53 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	Where does the potential difference come from in an unconnected electrolytic capacitor ? Translate it, please by translator. It is interesting. ------------------------ RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy 2021-09-10_144050.jpg (100.94 kB, 462x606 - viewed 296 times.) RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy 2021-09-10_144032.jpg (144.75 kB, 455x597 - viewed 290 times.) RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy 2021-09-10_144017.jpg (64.7 kB, 374x604 - viewed 87 times.) RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy 2021-09-10_143957.jpg (116.48 kB, 461x611 - viewed 80 times.) RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy 2021-09-10_143938.jpg (113.07 kB, 459x597 - viewed 72 times.) RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy 2021-09-10_143836.jpg (80.83 kB, 584x527 - viewed 86 times.)

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #16 on: 2024-04-15, 22:30:34 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	Quote from: F6FLT on 2024-04-15, 14:11:42 @sergh Proof of what?! If it were exactly what you want, then there would be no reason for us to gather here. It would be selected from trade catalogs according to the necessary parameters and sold in stores. We don't yet know how space and time work. And these, “virtual particles,” vacuum energy are part of the structure of the world. Here is a more academic example that there is something in a vacuum: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228392-700-light-pulled-out-of-empty-space/ Quote Zero-point radiation continually imparts random impulses on an electron, so that it never comes to a complete stop. Zero-point radiation gives the oscillator an average energy equal to the frequency of oscillation multiplied by one-half of Planck's constant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy Of course it's not easy How do you imagine a rectifier when the frequency of the oscillations is close to the limit for our space? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Planck_frequency https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/43063/what-is-the-highest-possible-frequency-for-an-em-wave

chief kolbacict	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #17 on: 2024-04-22, 11:51:58 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	where does appear voltage in a unconnected electrolytic capacitor ?

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #18 on: 2024-04-29, 14:33:17 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	"Enhancement of ionic conductivity of aqueous solution by silanol groups over zeolite surface" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1387181120307435

F6FLT	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #19 on: 2024-04-29, 16:26:39 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: sergh on 2024-04-15, 22:30:34 If it were exactly what you want, then there would be no reason for us to gather here. It would be selected from trade catalogs according to the necessary parameters and sold in stores. Proof is exactly what I want, and I don't think I'm the only one. Looking for that proof without having it yet is a "reason for us to gather here", as you put it. But you're the one who told us about "proof", a word that has a precise meaning, especially in science. So if you're going to talk about proof, tell us at least one proof of what, that was only my question. What would be proven? Quote Here is a more academic example that there is something in a vacuum... That the quantum vacuum is not empty is a truism. Everyone in science agrees on that. The question is not so much the nature of the quantum vacuum as the possibility of extracting energy from it. We haven't the slightest proof or thought experiment that this would be possible. Quote from: sergh on 2024-04-29, 14:33:17 "Enhancement of ionic conductivity of aqueous solution by silanol groups over zeolite surface" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1387181120307435 This is much more interesting, thanks for posting it. I don't think it's related to ZPE, but in any case manipulating ionic conductivity is an interesting avenue to explore. In the light of this paper, I'm going to take another look at the Vasilescu-Karpen perpetual electric battery, on which I experimented a few years ago but whose effects were too weak to be significant. Perhaps they can now be increased. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

F6FLT	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #20 on: 2024-04-29, 16:40:06 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2024-04-22, 11:51:58 where does appear voltage in a unconnected electrolytic capacitor ? https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/en/faq/detail.php?id=alRecoveryVolt --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #21 on: 2024-04-30, 07:10:27 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	Quote from: F6FLT on 2024-04-29, 16:26:39 This is much more interesting, thanks for posting it. I don't think it's related to ZPE, but in any case manipulating ionic conductivity is an interesting avenue to explore. In the light of this paper, I'm going to take another look at the Vasilescu-Karpen perpetual electric battery, on which I experimented a few years ago but whose effects were too weak to be significant. Perhaps they can now be increased. Regarding the article about increasing the conductivity of water with zeolite. I have long noticed that the conductivity of even highly purified water increases with the addition of zeolite. I believed that this was due to the presence of foreign impurities in commercial zeolites. But I would not agree with the authors of the article. As I understand it, they consider the reason to be an increase in conductivity due to the presence of a silicon hydroxyl group at the surface of the zeolite. But in this case, ordinary sand or glass in water will also increase conductivity. The complex structure of the dielectric surface usually improves the insulating properties. Probably the reason is the nanostructure, tunnel or other quantum effects. The same ZeroPoint energy, weak and almost elusive.

chief kolbacict	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #22 on: 2024-04-30, 17:41:07 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	Quote from: F6FLT on 2024-04-29, 16:40:06 https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/en/faq/detail.php?id=alRecoveryVolt Didn't know. thanks. But if my electrolytic capacitor has standing without power supply during three years ?

chief kolbacict	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #23 on: 2024-05-01, 10:47:51 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	Besides that,voltage in the capacitor' outputs after stand for an year by unconnected is is opposite, on the positive terminal there is a minus, and on the negative terminal there is a plus. Japanese doesn't know it.

sergh	Re: RedOx reactions and Zero Point Energy « Reply #24 on: 2024-05-03, 09:18:38 »
Jr. Member Posts: 81	About increasing adsorption and desorption in zeolites without high temperatures and very low pressures. 1. increase adsorption by applying an electric field: Influence of electric field on sorption ability of natural zeolite. Sorption properties of zeolite at various values of intensity of electric field are studied. It is shown that influence of constant electric field on natural zeolite essentially raises it sorption ability and exchange capacity in relation to iron and manganese ions. Increase of activity of a sorbent remains after electric field removal. 2. increasing desorption by adding ferric iron oxide to the zeolite and heating in a microwave field https://patents.google.com/patent/UA83469U/en?oq=UA83469U 1. Preparation of black iron oxide from a liquid solution "on demand" and "from scratch": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPzY2HL9_VE iron sulfate (iron vitriol from gardener's shop) + iron chloride (radio parts store) + alkali (household store) 2. Magnetic Graphene \| Making Magnetic Graphene Oxide - Fe3O4 magnetic nano particle composite system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOu0yC3WEMQ 3. Russian secret methods for producing magnetic fluid from simple components: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhZxJzW5jrg https://youtu.be/yr3iXa3ciSU?t=522 ------------------------ Desorption_of_zeolit_eng1.pdf (90.46 kB - downloaded 55 times.) Influence of electric field on sorption ability of natural zeolite_eng1.pdf (237.26 kB - downloaded 53 times.) « Last Edit: 2024-05-23, 11:16:59 by sergh »

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