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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Tariel Kapanadze's Devices (Moderators: verpies, Apecore) > Grenade coil type systems
2024-11-26, 10:47:42
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Author Topic: Grenade coil type systems  (Read 39725 times)
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #500 on: 2023-10-31, 17:19:03 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-10-30, 09:27:37
PW, verpies,

The fields are not homogenous, as far as i can see as moving the probe from OD to ID shows many fluctuations.
Also measuring a single magnet across its surface shows many different readings.

Another problem is the positioning of the probe when probing inside the gap as we have many "degrees of freedom" to control.

This picture shows me having the probe in what i call the 0° position:


Let me double-check on this as i am sure i found a 0mT spot with the probe in 0° position while running 8A through the coil.
Itsu,

What is the stack sequence of the sausage in this image (i.e., left to right, magnet, ferrite, ferrite, etc).  Also please provide the approx. thickness and diameter of each (ferrite/magnet).

Thanks,
PW
« Last Edit: 2023-10-31, 19:20:04 by verpies »
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #501 on: 2023-10-31, 19:20:41 »

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Quote from: picowatt on 2023-10-31, 17:19:03
Also please provide the approx. thickness and diameter of each (ferrite/magnet).
Also, please provide the dimensions of the copper coil (not including the plastic former).
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #502 on: 2023-10-31, 19:32:51 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2023-10-31, 19:20:41
Also, please provide the dimensions of the copper coil (not including the plastic former).

Verpies,

Where is the copper foil located?

PW
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #503 on: 2023-10-31, 19:41:22 »
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Itsu,

if you only had magnets at one end of the sausage, the following might prove interesting:

Step 1:  Measure the surface field of the magnet side of the gap with the coil deactivated.  Place the probe's measurement face directly against the surface of that pole piece.  Note the reading.

Step 2:  Remove the magnets from the sausage.  Position the probe to make a surface field measurement of the pole piece on the DC coil side of the gap.  As above, place the probe's measurement face directly against the surface of that pole piece. (pick a location that is directly opposite from where you made the step one measurement).  Ramp up the coil current and see if you can attain the same (or greater) field strength as measured in step one.  Note the amp draw.

You will have to decide if removing the magnet is too much hassle.  You'll likely need a spacer to replace the magnets' width in the stack.  Use another ferrite if you have one or just a plastic spacer if you don't.

If there are magnets at both ends of the sausage, it might take a bit more thought on how to do this.  Perhaps Verpies can offer a suggestion.

I was just wondering how much surface flux your DC coil and ferrite cores can achieve without the magnets involved...

PW
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #504 on: 2023-10-31, 20:06:18 »

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Quote from: picowatt on 2023-10-31, 17:19:03
Itsu,

What is the stack sequence of the sausage in this image (i.e., left to right, magnet, ferrite, ferrite, etc).  Also please provide the approx. thickness and diameter of each (ferrite/magnet).

Thanks,
PW


PW, verpies,

for details on my device see here:




Data left to right;

2 stacked ringmagnets each 57 x 21 x 13mm (OD ID H),    Soft core (underneath the coil) 50.5 x 25 x 28.5mm (OD ID H),   Soft core 50.5 x 25 x 28.5mm (OD ID H),   2 stacked ringmagnets each 57 x 21 x 13mm (OD ID H)

Coil data:

coil former OD 53mm
Coil width 27mm
coil thickness 11mm
530 turns 0.8mm magnet wire
88m length
3.5 Ohm


No copper foil is present.


Itsu
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #505 on: 2023-10-31, 20:34:13 »

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Quote from: picowatt on 2023-10-31, 19:41:22
Step 1:  Measure the surface field of the magnet side of the gap with the coil deactivated.  Place the probe's measurement face directly against the surface of that pole piece.  Note the reading.
With all 4 ringmagnets stacked together on the right side of the device i measure 180mT at the surface (OD) of these magnets in the gap, but 170mT when moving a few mm inside the gap to match the OD of the soft core.
See also this earlier measurement here:  https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg108422#msg108422


Quote from: picowatt on 2023-10-31, 19:41:22
Step 2:  Remove the magnets from the sausage.  Position the probe to make a surface field measurement of the pole piece on the DC coil side of the gap.  As above, place the probe's measurement face directly against the surface of that pole piece. (pick a location that is directly opposite from where you made the step one measurement).  Ramp up the coil current and see if you can attain the same (or greater) field strength as measured in step one.  Note the amp draw.
With the 4 magnets removed and measuring the flux on the surface of the 2nd core at the OD in the gap i measure 115mT (max.) at 7.6A current (max).


Itsu
« Last Edit: 2023-11-01, 01:18:51 by verpies »
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #506 on: 2023-10-31, 23:14:54 »

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Quote from: picowatt on 2023-10-31, 19:32:51
Verpies,
Where is the copper foil located?
That would be in the Staaar Yoke device. They also used an aluminum foil in it for the orthogonal winding.
Itsu's Grenade device does not have a copper foil in it nor the orthogonal winding.
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #507 on: 2023-11-01, 10:29:43 »
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Itsu,

When you make your surface field measurements, do so on the "face" of the pole pieces, not on the OD.

Perhaps consider removing the two magnets on the coil end of the sausage to see if this will allow you to null the field with the DC coil (with the probe measurement axis parallel to the sausage axis, which I believe you call the 90 degree measurement for some reason...).

Although having only the two magnets on the opposing end will likely not meet Verpies' field strength versus diameter requirement, it might allow further study of the field conditions in the gap when the field is nulled with the DC coil.

Perhaps Verpies can provide more guidance regarding this...

PW
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #508 on: 2023-11-01, 12:32:34 »

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I am probably not expressing myself clearly enough, sorry for that, but i did make my latest measurements on the "face" of the pole pieces.
But as the strongest readings are at the outside of the core / magnets, i referred to this outside as OD, so here a picture of where i measured the above readings:





Concerning: "the probe measurement axis parallel to the sausage axis, which I believe you call the 90 degree measurement for some reason...", i from now on will call that the 0° position.


I will do some experiments with fewer magnets to see if i somehow can "null the field with the DC coil".


Itsu
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #509 on: 2023-11-01, 13:11:57 »

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I removed the left 2 stacked magnets leaving only the right 2 stacked magnets.

Measuring with the probe in the middle of the gap halfway the OD / ID of the soft core in the (new) 0° position, see picture, where the coil is DEACTIVATED (136mT).
When activating the coil at max 8A, the reading is reduced to 70mT:





Then i removed one of the 2 right stacked magnets, leaving only one (the weakest).

Measuring with the probe in the middle of the gap halfway the OD / ID of the soft core in the (new) 0° position, see picture, where the coil is DEACTIVATED (75mT).
When activating the coil at max 8A, the reading is reduced to 11mT:





So nearly there (0mT), so looking for an even weaker ring magnet............


Itsu
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #510 on: 2023-11-01, 16:00:47 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-11-01, 13:11:57
I removed the left 2 stacked magnets leaving only the right 2 stacked magnets.

Measuring with the probe in the middle of the gap halfway the OD / ID of the soft core in the (new) 0° position, see picture, where the coil is DEACTIVATED (136mT).
When activating the coil at max 8A, the reading is reduced to 70mT:



Then i removed one of the 2 right stacked magnets, leaving only one (the weakest).

Measuring with the probe in the middle of the gap halfway the OD / ID of the soft core in the (new) 0° position, see picture, where the coil is DEACTIVATED (75mT).
When activating the coil at max 8A, the reading is reduced to 11mT:





So nearly there (0mT), so looking for an even weaker ring magnet............


Itsu


Itsu,

While nulled as best you can, can you move the probe around a bit to find something closer to zero?  Start out with just some slight twists of the probe to the left or right to see if it will null.

PW
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #511 on: 2023-11-01, 16:12:09 »

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I found a weaker speaker magnet which i put in as the only magnet,

Same setup as before, measuring 60mT with the coil deactivated, see picture:



Around 6A through the coil the meter reads 0mT.


Seen the above update from PW, i will see what i can do as there is little time to adjust the probe before the coil heats up too much and i need my both hands to manage the movements of the coil and magnet when energized


Itsu
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #512 on: 2023-11-01, 16:22:49 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-11-01, 16:12:09
I found a weaker speaker magnet which i put in as the only magnet,

Same setup as before, measuring 60mT with the coil deactivated, see picture:



Around 6A through the coil the meter reads 0mT.


Seen the above update from PW, i will see what i can do as there is little time to adjust the probe before the coil heats up too much and i need my both hands to manage the movements of the coil and magnet when energized


Itsu

Itsu,

Forget my last post...

Now that you can null the field, measure the radial field (what we are now calling the 90 degree reading with the measurement axis perpendicular to the sausage axis) with and without the DC coil activated with the current necessary to achieve the 0 degree null.

PW.
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #513 on: 2023-11-01, 20:58:22 »

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PW,

it depends on what position (height) the probe needs to be.
When at the same height as previous done (halfway the OD / ID of the core) i can set the reading to 0mT with deactivated coil and this will stay low (max 8mT) when activating the coil with 6A.

But when increasing the probe height to be higher than the OD of the core (5mm) then we have a reading of 25mT with deactivated coil and 57mT with 6A through the coil.

For this latter position see this picture:




Itsu
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #514 on: 2024-02-04, 09:30:11 »
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Hi Itsu,

Its bin a while since your last post.
Is the subject still an active bench topic or is it already put to bed?
Maybe you or Verpies could give a short conclusion where this has ended or should proceed from?

Best regards,
Ape
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #515 on: 2024-02-04, 09:58:27 »

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Hi Ape,

well its kind of shelved for the time being, other things have come in between for now, so who knows if it will be followed up or not.

Itsu
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #516 on: 2024-02-04, 12:28:11 »
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Hi Itsu as I understand it the grenade device captures the magnetic wave that’s transmitted from the none standard Tesla coil (re Don Smith's) vids on the net, I was wondering as this is a 90deg phase shift wave if you had done any tests on your recovery device or have any information you could share.

I hope asking you is ok as i am really interested is solving some of the mystery’s of this device.

Please feel free to PM me. Sil
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #517 on: 2024-02-05, 20:00:46 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2024-02-04, 09:58:27
Hi Ape,

well its kind of shelved for the time being, other things have come in between for now, so who knows if it will be followed up or not.

Itsu

I understand.its also a very specific topic.

Let me try to activate in general the Ruslan topic..
I can recall long ago with T1000 to have a test in order to charge a cap/ plate/ grenade by a kacher setup.
I didn't succeed also I' m not aware if somebody has done it succesfully.
In other words, charging an object with longitudinal waves.
We all know ionizing something can not be done with a sinewave as the average charge from a sinewave cycle is always zero.

Now there has been circulating some vids that a unipolair wave is generated from a kacher setup in a slight different setting.

So again if T1000 can remember what I'm talking about it hopefully gets some attraction here.
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #518 on: 2024-02-05, 23:05:36 »
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Hi Mr Ape I'm not sure where your going with this, But if your talking about an ac fed cap / inductance (tank coil) then it's a tuned circuit, but put a diode in circuit and it's a different matter, are we talking about Hertzian waves or scalar or acoustic waves audio stuff? Hertzian is 2 dimensional (it only has losses) wile scalar is 3 dimensional and doesn’t have losses and it’s not a wave.
But in saying that a lot of BS has been said and other stuff un said.

So tell me what are you trying to do I might be able to help?

Sil

PS where has your PM service gone ?
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #519 on: 2024-02-06, 09:13:52 »
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Apecore; picture this idea suppose we have a simple Tesla coil
with a 100mm wave length with the energy spinning round it's length,
now suppose we split that wave length into 4 parts
and separated with nodes, now we wind another coil with two
layers and wind it to the same wave length so the node wave
length sits in the same wave length but folded over in the middle
so it produces canceling waves. Now perhaps all we have to do is
sync the both coils so they are at the same place at the same time
but apparently one is 3 times the speed as the other.

Regards Sil
   
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Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #520 on: 2024-02-06, 19:16:30 »
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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2024-02-05, 23:05:36
Hi Mr Ape I'm not sure where your going with this, But if your talking about an ac fed cap / inductance (tank coil) then it's a tuned circuit, but put a diode in circuit and it's a different matter, are we talking about Hertzian waves or scalar or acoustic waves audio stuff? Hertzian is 2 dimensional (it only has losses) wile scalar is 3 dimensional and doesn’t have losses and it’s not a wave.
But in saying that a lot of BS has been said and other stuff un said.

So tell me what are you trying to do I might be able to help?

Sil

PS where has your PM service gone ?

Longitudinal charging the grenade adding/ mixing current
   
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