Grenade coil type systems

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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Tariel Kapanadze's Devices (Moderators: verpies, Apecore) > Grenade coil type systems

2024-11-26, 10:49:08
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Author Topic: Grenade coil type systems (Read 39728 times)

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #400 on: 2023-10-20, 10:32:44 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: Itsu on 2023-10-20, 09:55:49 Interesting videos, showing the effect we are after in the Ruslan type of devices too, namely the effect that the Kacher / Tesla coil provides for the current while the Push-Pull provides for the voltage. In the 4^th part the author says that the effect happens inside the transformer and the TC only generates HV pulses to tickle the core of this transformer.

Itsu	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #401 on: 2023-10-20, 12:48:27 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Ok, so the TC tickles the transformer to produce the extra current then.

Itsu	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #402 on: 2023-10-20, 13:14:50 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	I finished shielding the nano-pulse electronics in a metal box and made the same measurements (lower amplitude) as in this post: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg107972#msg107972 I now cannot detect any effect from this 1.5kV nano-pulse both in the E and the H field. Video here: https://youtu.be/MHp78MUVIUM Itsu

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #403 on: 2023-10-20, 13:47:07 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	So, this puts to rest any unconventional behavior of terminated coaxial coils. I wish there was some unconventional effect but this experiment proves that terminated coaxial coils are nonsense. Anything detected previously was only due to leakage or common-mode signals. Please repeat this experiment two more times, with the end of the coaxial cable open and shorted. The unterminated end of the coax shall be shielded inside the copper tube/foil cage but isolated from the tube, just like it is now, in both cases. Finally, when you take the big box apart to rescue your Peppermuntz, pay special attention to any damage the coax could have sustained during the soldering of the copper tube.

Itsu	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #404 on: 2023-10-20, 14:54:15 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Well, i have used a shorted coax end many times with the nano-pulser without problems, but i used it on an open coax end before which blew up the nano-pulser MOSFET, so i am reluctant to do this open end test.

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #405 on: 2023-10-20, 15:17:14 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Yes, I remember that you could not find a TVS diode to put across D-S of the MOSFET that would be fast enough and have a voltage rating similar to V_{DS_MAX.}

Itsu	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #406 on: 2023-10-20, 15:43:16 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Ok as this pulser has such fast TVS i did the tests and both (open coax and shorted coax) showed no effect on the probes similar as with a 50 Ohm load resistor.

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #407 on: 2023-10-20, 17:51:57 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: Itsu on 2023-10-20, 15:43:16 Ok as this pulser has such fast TVS i did the tests and both (open coax and shorted coax) showed no effect on the probes similar as with a 50 Ohm load resistor. That settles it then. Coaxial cable coils do not generate any external fields unless Aharonov–Bohm effect overturns that verdict.

Apecore	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #408 on: 2023-10-20, 18:44:33 »
Group: Moderator Jr. Member Posts: 87	Quote from: verpies on 2023-10-20, 17:51:57 That settles it then. Coaxial cable coils do not generate any external fields unless Aharonov–Bohm effect overturns that verdict. Well, the word "any" maybe not a good expressions as we don't know what is present we aint detecting with the used probes. Can you be more specific on which type of field.

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #409 on: 2023-10-20, 20:14:38 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: Apecore on 2023-10-20, 18:44:33 Can you be more specific on which type of field. Itsu did not detect any external B-field, H-field nor E-field. The jury is still out on A and φ.

Itsu	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #410 on: 2023-10-20, 20:48:03 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Quote from: verpies on 2023-10-19, 11:40:00 Yeah, that means this position of the coil is not ideal for creating a bucking flux, but it gives us the upper boundary for the number of ampturns needed to rotate the flux in the gap. The low-turn coil needed to accomplish that feat must be positioned adjacently to the gap, deliberately keeping some distance from the magnet, to give its flux some space to be expelled from the fast ferrite. Do you have your gaussmeter already to check whether the flux density in the gap (B) satisfies the condition B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD ? I got my gaussmeter (WT10A) and did some measurements. The ring magnets i have show a value of max 150mT / ring (outside mostly) and when stuck together (4) they show a max value of 180mT. With those 4 ring magnets stuck together on the right side of the device and measuring the flux in the Al ring gap (Al ring plus filler removed) the flux value varies from 61mT (right side gap / outside core) to 10mT (left side gap / outside core). So i do not see how that relates to "the condition B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD" Itsu

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #411 on: 2023-10-21, 01:22:36 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: Itsu on 2023-10-20, 20:48:03 The ring magnets i have show a value of max 150mT / ring (outside mostly) and when stuck together (4) they show a max value of 180mT. Since 1mT = 10 Gauss, the open magnets' surface flux density is 1500 Gauss. If the magnets were well yoked^* then their flux density would be double that value, i.e.: 3000 Gauss. The best ceramic magnets go up to 4200 Gauss. Quote from: Itsu on 2023-10-20, 20:48:03 With those 4 ring magnets stuck together on the right side of the device and measuring the flux in the netall ring gap (Al ring plus filler removed) the flux value varies from 61mT (right side gap / outside core) to 10mT (left side gap / outside core). So i do not see how that relates to "the condition B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD" Your maximum flux density (B) in the gap is 61mT, which is equal to 610 Gauss and your OD is 50mm, so: 610 > 70500 / 50 is false because 610 < 1410 G. Your best flux density in the gap is 2.3 times too small to confine the fast electrons to the metal ring (actually more than that because your Al OD is less than 50mm.) Thus the device will not work as it is now. What flux density do you get in the gap if the magnets are placed on both sides of the sausages ? What if the gap width is decreased to 6mm ? Using more magnets or bigger/stronger ones, making the ferrite sausage shorter, making the sausage out of a more permeable ferrite, making the gap narrower, putting DC into that biasing coil (aiding), adding a second DC coil on the other side of the gap, yoking the entire device in a soft-steel frame - all increase the flux density in the gap. Take your pick. Also, increasing the OD, lowers the minimal flux density (B) requirement in the gap. ^* _{magnetic yoke is a looped frame that decreases the reluctance for the return flux.}

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #412 on: 2023-10-21, 02:38:31 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: verpies on 2023-10-20, 21:33:55 Your maximum flux density (B) in the gap is 61mT, which is equal to 610 Gauss and your OD is 50mm, so: 610 > 70500 / 50 is false because 610 < 1410 G. So at that minimum flux density of 1410 G (141mT), the Aluminum ring needs to be resonated with 1.57MHz. For frequencies of other metals, see this.

picowatt	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #413 on: 2023-10-21, 03:19:30 »
Sr. Member Posts: 453	Quote from: verpies on 2023-10-21, 02:38:31 So at that minimum flux density of 141mT, the Aluminum ring needs to be resonated with 1.57MHz. For frequencies of other metals, see this. Verpies, The above quote seems to indicate the effect being sought is NMR related. However, in a previous post you stated: Quote from: verpies A stream of fast electrons starts circulating in the ring/rod. This has the effect of producing a strong current pulse which generates flux opposing the 0° field and amplitude increases. Is the effect being sought moreso related to NMR or some action involving free electrons? How did you arrive at the the requirement for "B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD" ? PW

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #414 on: 2023-10-21, 13:46:33 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: picowatt on 2023-10-21, 03:19:30 The above quote seems to indicate the effect being sought is NMR related. It is spin related. It seeks to reverse the spins and destabilize the nuclei of these elements. I always knew that the decay of some nuclei could be influenced by external factor, such as ionization, e,g, see the spectacular example of ¹⁸⁷Rhenium and GSI anomaly but it wasn't until I read this patent which made me realize that certain RF absorption by the nuclei, can destabilize them, too. The result of this destabilization is the ejection of fast electrons (fast as in: 0.9c - not to be conflated with slow electrons of regular conduction). Quote from: picowatt on 2023-10-21, 03:19:30 However, in a previous post you stated: "A stream of fast electrons starts circulating in the ring/rod. This has the effect of producing a strong current pulse..." Is the effect being sought moreso related to NMR or some action involving free electrons? It is a synergy of four mechanisms: 1) the destabilization of nuclei by specific RF absorbtion 2) the directionalized emission of fast electrons (not slow electrons of regular conduction) 3) the confinement/bending of the paths of the above by the static B (as in a cyclotron) 4) electron multiplication by secondary emission Normally, the fast electrons are emitted in random directions, however the spin axis alignment caused by the magnetic field, directionalizes this emission. In case of this device, it is a circular polarization of these directions. Quote from: picowatt on 2023-10-21, 03:19:30 How did you arrive at the the requirement for "B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD" ? From the Lorentz deflection radius of fast electrons (as in a cyclotron), with the assumption of their speed being 0.9c, according to: That the Lorentz deflection of moving charged particles also applies to the trajectories of fast particles inside solid matter, is exemplified by the enhancement of PET imaging resolution in presence of constant magnetic fields. The photo above also illustrates that the fast charged particles inside matter, survive for several millimeters between collisions, which is a huge distance on the atomic scale. ICRU Report #37 has more data about the mean free path of fast electrons inside metals. « Last Edit: 2023-10-22, 09:46:04 by verpies »

Itsu	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #415 on: 2023-10-21, 14:51:05 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Quote What flux density do you get in the gap if the magnets are placed on both sides of the sausages ? Then i get 60mT measured at both the left and right side of the gap on the outside (OD) of the cores (27mT in the middle of the gap near the center (ID) of the cores) Quote What if the gap width is decreased to 6mm ? Then i get 116mT measured at both the left and right side of the gap on the outside (OD) of the cores (97mT in the middle of the gap near the center (ID) of the cores) Quote Using more magnets or bigger/stronger ones, making the ferrite sausage shorter, making the sausage out of a more permeable ferrite, making the gap narrower, putting DC into that biasing coil (aiding), adding a second DC coil on the other side of the gap, yoking the entire device in a soft-steel frame - all increase the flux density in the gap. Take your pick. Also, increasing the OD, lowers the minimal flux density (B) requirement in the gap. Ok, i will try if i can increase the flux density above the 1410G by using any or all of these suggestions. I have these 2 big ring magnets (140 x 60 x 20mm) which i expected to be much stronger, but they measure 100mT max. only, compared to the 150mT for the smaller magnetron ring magnets i use now. Itsu

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #416 on: 2023-10-21, 14:58:25 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: picowatt on 2023-10-21, 03:19:30 I get a 404 error, is it me ... No, it is me. I will let you know when I find the correct link.

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #417 on: 2023-10-21, 15:10:22 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: Itsu on 2023-10-21, 14:51:05 Ok, i will try if i can increase the flux density above the 1410G by using any or all of these suggestions. Please try the easiest one first. Also, always remember not to put opposing flux sources (repelling magnets, coils) next to each other without some space to squeeze out the flux. This will be especially true for the low-turn coil in the future, which will have to oppose the flux from the magnets and the DC/LF coil or coils. The low-turn coil can be right next to the gap but not right against a DC coil. Give it some space to squeeze out the flux out of the ferrite.

picowatt	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #418 on: 2023-10-21, 15:17:40 »
Sr. Member Posts: 453	Quote from: verpies on 2023-10-21, 14:58:25 No, it is me. I will let you know when I find the correct link. Verpies, Do you have the patent number? PW

Itsu	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #419 on: 2023-10-21, 15:18:57 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Quote from: verpies on 2023-10-21, 15:10:22 Please try the easiest one first. Also, always remember not to put opposing flux sources (repelling magnets, coils) next to each other without some space to squeeze out the flux. This will be especially true for the low-turn coil in the future, which will have to oppose the flux from the magnets and the DC/LF coil or coils. The low-turn coil can be right next to the gap but not right against a DC coil. Give it some space to squeeze out the flux out of the ferrite. Right, i tried reducing the number of soft cores from 6 (3 on each side) to 4 (2 on each side) and then the (aiding) flux density is 130mT on both sides of the gap (6mm). After further reducing the number of soft cores to two (one on each side), i end up with a flux density of 160mT at both sides of the gap.

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #420 on: 2023-10-21, 15:42:39 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: Itsu on 2023-10-21, 15:18:57 After further reducing the number of soft cores to two (one on each side), i end up with a flux density of 160mT at both sides of the gap. Yes but now you have very little space for the DC coil and for the low-turn coil for pulsing. Without the DC coil we cannot make an experiment to find out how many ampturns to put into the low-turn coil to turn the field 90° in the gap during normal operation ...and we cannot modulate the density of the 0° flux in the gap, at a low frequency. If you take up the entire width of the ferrite with a wide DC coil then the low-turn pulsing coil will have no room to squeeze out the flux from this DC coil and magnet.

Itsu	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #421 on: 2023-10-21, 15:46:31 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Ok, so looking for a compromise using the other options......

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #422 on: 2023-10-21, 16:21:48 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	How about this: The low-turn pulse coil will be narrow. It does not need a breathing room to the right, because the gap is the breathing room there and that is where the flux is supposed to turn 90° anyway when the pulse coil is active. However, the pulse coil needs some space to the left because the DC coil and magnets are there and we do not want to fight their flux at close quarters.

Itsu	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #423 on: 2023-10-21, 16:58:39 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Yes, that might work, in this configuration i have about 190mT in the gap.

verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #424 on: 2023-10-21, 17:32:32 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: Itsu on 2023-10-21, 16:58:39 Yes, that might work, in this configuration i have about 190mT in the gap. Yeah, but how many ampturns are needed to turn that flux in the gap by 90° now ?

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