Bias or propaganda against the free energy community

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OverUnity Research > General - Free Energy Related > Miscellaneous Discussions (Moderator: Allcanadian) > Bias or propaganda against the free energy community

2024-11-27, 13:01:52
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Author Topic: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community (Read 7910 times)

floodrod	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #50 on: 2023-02-23, 19:28:11 »
Jr. Member Posts: 80	I'll throw in my demented views. All energy, whether "free" or "paid" comes from the same place. Natures force to balance.. Gasoline ignites and creates "pressure" in a combustion chamber. Now we have an "Imbalance" of pressures.. Nature dislikes imbalances and exerts energy to balance it out. We tap the imbalance being balanced by inserting a piston and we spin our wheels. Magnet passes a coil. Positive and Negative charges separate causing an imbalance. Nature does not like the imbalance so given a path, the charges balance and we run our electronic loads by making nature balance through them. A waterfall.. Imbalance of height exists. Nature does not desire this imbalance so there exists a force to level these waters. We put a little water-wheel in the path and get free work from nature balancing. As "Free Energy Researchers" we seek to create or discover an imbalance we can pillage and rape for our benefit. Whether tapping an existing imbalance or using input to create the imbalance, nature will continually exert force we can tap - as-long as the imbalance exists.

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #51 on: 2023-02-23, 21:30:44 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	Floodrod Quote All energy, whether "free" or "paid" comes from the same place. Natures force to balance.. Gasoline ignites and creates "pressure" in a combustion chamber. Now we have an "Imbalance" of pressures.. Nature dislikes imbalances and exerts energy to balance it out. We tap the imbalance being balanced by inserting a piston and we spin our wheels. I agree however it also helps to understand where all energy including that in gasoline came from. 1)A bunch of material moving about in space was pulled together by gravitational energy and formed a star, our Sun, which started a fusion process. 2)The fusion/radiant energy from our Sun then traveled to Earth and was transformed by plants into a hydrocarbon HxCy and O2 from H2O and CO2. 3)Animals also ate the plants and when the plants and animals died they were covered in earth. 4)Pressure and heat then transformed the dead organic material into a hydrocarbon liquid we call oil. 5)The oil was then transformed again into a lighter hydrocarbon we call gasoline. So where did the "Energy" in the gasoline actually come from?. Energy always comes from a source which was the cosmic/gravitational energy to form the Sun and the energy released by the fusion process in the Sun. So we should be clear gasoline is not a source of energy per say and like most things is only an energy carrier. In some sense we could say all the energy we know is Cosmic energy relating to the universe. It was cosmic energy which caused all the stuff to start moving about then later gravitate together, start a fusion process in a star and radiate some energy to this planet. Which is why most credible physicists like to say all the material and energy we know on Earth came from somewhere else in the universe, ergo cosmic energy. Think about that, whenever we fire up our truck it's running on cosmic energy. Energy and material which came from somewhere else in the universe through countless transformations over the course of billions of years. Energy cannot be created or destroyed only transformed thus it always comes from somewhere else then eventually goes somewhere else. To understand this concept is to understand energy... AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

floodrod	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #52 on: 2023-02-24, 02:37:10 »
Jr. Member Posts: 80	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-23, 21:30:44 Floodrod I agree however it also helps to understand where all energy including that in gasoline came from. 1)A bunch of material moving about in space was pulled together by gravitational energy and formed a star, our Sun, which started a fusion process. Interesting, but perhaps the entire timeline you proposed is all reaction. What made the gravitational energy pull together all the material to form the sun and cosmos? It could be possible the great force of "Balance" is responsible for everything, including your timeline. All power, including cosmic powers, could all be reaction from the supreme force of balance that is encoded in the fabric of reality throughout the multiverse. The very same force that makes a coil induct could be the same force that formed the galaxy.

JimBoot	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #53 on: 2023-02-24, 03:55:13 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-23, 21:30:44 Floodrod I agree however it also helps to understand where all energy including that in gasoline came from. 1)A bunch of material moving about in space was pulled together by gravitational energy and formed a star, our Sun, which started a fusion process. 2)The fusion/radiant energy from our Sun then traveled to Earth and was transformed by plants into a hydrocarbon HxCy and O2 from H2O and CO2. 3)Animals also ate the plants and when the plants and animals died they were covered in earth. 4)Pressure and heat then transformed the dead organic material into a hydrocarbon liquid we call oil. 5)The oil was then transformed again into a lighter hydrocarbon we call gasoline. So where did the "Energy" in the gasoline actually come from?. Energy always comes from a source which was the cosmic/gravitational energy to form the Sun and the energy released by the fusion process in the Sun. So we should be clear gasoline is not a source of energy per say and like most things is only an energy carrier. In some sense we could say all the energy we know is Cosmic energy relating to the universe. It was cosmic energy which caused all the stuff to start moving about then later gravitate together, start a fusion process in a star and radiate some energy to this planet. Which is why most credible physicists like to say all the material and energy we know on Earth came from somewhere else in the universe, ergo cosmic energy. Think about that, whenever we fire up our truck it's running on cosmic energy. Energy and material which came from somewhere else in the universe through countless transformations over the course of billions of years. Energy cannot be created or destroyed only transformed thus it always comes from somewhere else then eventually goes somewhere else. To understand this concept is to understand energy... Af Our Sun being a fusion reaction is a belief more akin to religion than science IMO. The sun is cooler on the inside, elements not produced by fusion exist in the sun, the corona is 100s of times hotter than the surface. There is a lot of room for better models of our universe than "once upon a time there was nothing which exploded" Dark energy/matter = dog ate my homework. They just sound like convenient work around excuses. EU theory make much more sense. Sadly we lost another EU giant recently. Wal Thornhill has joined Halton Arp amongst the stars.

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #54 on: 2023-02-24, 10:30:16 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-23, 17:35:20 F6FLT Thankfully your opinion is irrelevant and countless free energy related devices have been patented globally and the persons recognized as real inventors. ... Proof of the reality of an invention has never been required from patent offices. All it takes is for an "inventor" label to be placed on an official paper for you to confuse it with a person who actually invented something. You are confusing the map with the territory, it is childish. Quote In fact, free energy is just as it sounds... Talking about what you have never given us any proof of is talking about nothing. "any true engineering scheme claimed to be free energy is duplicable and a consensus on the reality of the device can be reached", I wonder what you don't manage to understand so simple ! We have no consensus, humanity is still waiting for this free energy. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #55 on: 2023-02-24, 10:45:13 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: JimBoot on 2023-02-24, 03:55:13 ...EU theory make much more sense... Certainly not. It is incredible this mania in the free energy movement to accept anything as long as it is opposed to academic science, especially since I have never seen that those who defend these pseudo-sciences have the skills and knowledge of the subjects. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9q-v4lBGuw --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #56 on: 2023-02-24, 17:54:26 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	F6FLT Quote Proof of the reality of an invention has never been required from patent offices. All it takes is for an "inventor" label to be placed on an official paper for you to confuse it with a person who actually invented something. You are confusing the map with the territory, it is childish. Talking about what you have never given us any proof of is talking about nothing. Quote Talking about what you have never given us any proof of is talking about nothing. "any true engineering scheme claimed to be free energy is duplicable and a consensus on the reality of the device can be reached", I wonder what you don't manage to understand so simple ! We have no consensus, humanity is still waiting for this free energy. Talking about what you have never given us any proof of is talking about nothing. Quote Certainly not. It is incredible this mania in the free energy movement to accept anything as long as it is opposed to academic science, especially since I have never seen that those who defend these pseudo-sciences have the skills and knowledge of the subjects. Talking about what you have never given us any proof of is talking about nothing. You see this nonsense works both ways and if you can demand proof for everything then so can we. As well just like you, once you do provide what you call proof we can call it gibberish and demand even more proof, ad nauseam. Your cool with that aren't you?, every time you open your mouth we demand more and more irrefutable proof or deem you a moron for a lack of it. It's just silly in my opinion and goes towards the bias and double standard this thread is about. AC « Last Edit: 2023-02-24, 23:09:39 by Allcanadian » --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

JimBoot	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #57 on: 2023-02-24, 20:33:18 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Quote from: F6FLT on 2023-02-24, 10:45:13 Certainly not. It is incredible this mania in the free energy movement to accept anything as long as it is opposed to academic science, especially since I have never seen that those who defend these pseudo-sciences have the skills and knowledge of the subjects. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9q-v4lBGuw sorry for challenging beliefs. I never wore a mask the last 3 years either. I don’t follow science.

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #58 on: 2023-02-25, 13:39:14 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	"Belief" is the right word. I personally know almost nothing about immunology, so I'm not going to start having "beliefs" in anti-vaccine theories from a tiny fraction of "experts". At the very least I will remain in doubt. Science is not challenged with beliefs but with facts and refutable reasoning, especially physics. When one does not know how to hold them, one would be better advised to reserve judgment. When one considers that the value of one's beliefs prevails, religion or politics is the best alternative. When you say "I don't follow science", after having affirmed sienctific observations like "The sun is cooler on the inside" or having spoken about the "electron spin" and having referred to scientific publications, I see there a big lie or a big incoherence: it is affirming a thing and its opposite! You have to choose sides. The downgrading of science to the level of religion is unacceptable and to be fought. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

floodrod	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #59 on: 2023-02-25, 14:39:28 »
Jr. Member Posts: 80	If you think mainstream "Science" isn't politically polarized and corrupted, then I don't know what to say.. I can absolutely guarantee much "Funding" of these scientific research projects comes with strings attached.. The who issue the funds usually have their own agenda and make it abundantly clear what conclusion the research should reach. And if the conclusion is not congruent with the funders expectations, the results are hidden, destroyed, or altered. IMO- we have reached a point of such extreme corruption, that "Mainstream Science" has become a mockery. Profit and Power have prevailed over the quest for truth.

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the scientific community « Reply #60 on: 2023-02-25, 15:16:19 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: floodrod on 2023-02-25, 14:39:28 If you think mainstream "Science" isn't politically polarized and corrupted, then I don't know what to say.. I know why many in the "free energy communauty" think that : https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4411.msg103981#msg103981 --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the scientific community « Reply #61 on: 2023-02-25, 15:19:50 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	I note that the free energy community relies on science and spends its time invoking concepts from science, such as "magnetic field", "electric current" or "energy". It is perfectly legitimate and useful to do so. The absurdity is that many of those who adopt these concepts, which they would not have had the idea of if science had not taught them, start to dispute them, even though they are only definitions and models formalised within the scientific framework, not real objects existing in the absolute! The "electric field" is only what science formulates, since it is a concept created and defined by science alone. It is an abstraction. If you don't want it, if you see its effects differently, if you don't want this science that you hate because you don't understand it, define your own concepts instead rather than behaving like a parasitic phagocyte with it. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

chief kolbacict	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #62 on: 2023-02-25, 15:41:13 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	Something you remind me more and more of Russian-language forums. There is a furious squabble with the transition to personalities and obscene expressions. You are more intelligent people...

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #63 on: 2023-02-25, 17:44:22 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	floodrod Quote If you think mainstream "Science" isn't politically polarized and corrupted, then I don't know what to say.. I can absolutely guarantee much "Funding" of these scientific research projects comes with strings attached.. The who issue the funds usually have their own agenda and make it abundantly clear what conclusion the research should reach. And if the conclusion is not congruent with the funders expectations, the results are hidden, destroyed, or altered. I agree and it's an interesting dilemma, many with a vested interest in a given interpretation of science may claim it's not polarized or corrupt. However the science of psychology proves to be human is to be polarized and biased in some way. Everyone is biased and to claim were not is simply more proof of our bias. Here's a good example of how many misuse and misrepresent science to serve there own interests. Science is a systematic method or body of knowledge in a given area. The knowledge is often represented by observations and experiments. However, then many do something were not supposed to do in science and tell others how they must use this knowledge based on there own beliefs. For example, science tells us the known universe is a sea of energy because everything we know has been proven to be in motion on some level. All the material stuff is in motion in a sea of electromagnetic waves and all of this represents energy. However then many misinterpret this knowledge and claim we can never utilize some aspects of this energy based on there own personal beliefs. Here we need to separate knowledge from an opinion of what we think the knowledge means. In effect, science and real scientists don't tell people what they can or cannot do with knowledge or what to believe. Only people with a vested interest or opinion tell others what to believe. My opinion is that since we have been proven to be swimming in a sea of energy it's just a matter of time before we find new and better ways of transforming it. My proof is that history has shown this has always been the case and there is no reason our progress should stop. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #64 on: 2023-02-25, 18:58:57 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-25, 17:44:22 ...the science of psychology proves... Psychology has never "proven" anything. One wonders if it is even a science. The psychologist is like the economist: the expert who can tell you afterwards why what he predicted before did not happen. In a recent trial, psychiatrists were not even able to answer a simple question: "was a child lying or telling the truth?" ! A "science" unable to answer such a simple binary question, I no longer call that a science. On the other hand, a hard science, such as physics, is able to predict an eclipse of the moon or the sun to the minute decades in advance. A discipline is judged by its results. When we compare the results of all the technology coming from the sciences with the results, the nothingness, coming from their detractors like many in this free energy community, we understand this ridiculous situation where those who have never produced anything useful nor consequently understood anything they talk about, shamelessly criticize those who understand and succeed. Immodesty is proportional to incompetence, see the Dunning-Kruger effect. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

chief kolbacict	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #65 on: 2023-02-25, 19:02:22 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-25, 17:44:22 history has shown this has always been the case and there is no reason our progress should stop. AC But what about the degradation and decline of states and civilizations?

chief kolbacict	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #66 on: 2023-02-26, 07:46:35 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	Quote from: F6FLT on 2023-02-25, 18:58:57 A "science" unable to answer such a simple binary question, I no longer call that a science. And where do the thoughts and ideas inspired by inspiration come from ? Whether it be in invention, music or poetry? What physics can explain this?

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #67 on: 2023-02-26, 14:30:49 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2023-02-26, 07:46:35 And where do the thoughts and ideas inspired by inspiration come from ? Whether it be in invention, music or poetry? What physics can explain this? If you believe in spirituality, in the existence of a spirit without matter, then you can answer irrationally all you want about it. If, like me, you are a materialist, if you think that the mind is only an emanation of the brain, which has received during its life a multitude of solicitations and information linked to the experience of the individual, to his environment, and to his culture, then imagination, invention and everything that revolves around it comes from the "background noise" of the brain. We can notice in fact that inventions are never radically new. The Tesla coils or the contraceptive pill could not have been invented by prehistoric men. The same goes for Beethoven's 5th symphony, perspective drawing or impressionist painting. It takes a context, it takes the evolution of humanity to prepare these ideas, and then the smallest click in the brain of a pioneer will trigger the release of this idea that was already in the air of time, and so the progress of techniques, ideas and art continues. Novelty is never created completely ex nihilo. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

chief kolbacict	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #68 on: 2023-02-26, 16:49:03 »
Sr. Member Posts: 275	Quote from: F6FLT on 2023-02-26, 14:30:49 If, like me, you are a materialist, if you think that the mind is only an emanation of the brain, which has received during its life a multitude of solicitations and information linked to the experience of the individual, to his environment, and to his culture, then imagination, invention and everything that revolves around it comes from the "background noise" of the brain. That is, orderly is born out of chaos? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmmYtopGx7Y

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #69 on: 2023-02-26, 18:52:48 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2023-02-26, 16:49:03 That is, orderly is born out of chaos? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmmYtopGx7Y Chaos can give rise to stable and regular patterns. We should therefore not be surprised by a certain order in our universe, since it has been able to give rise to the observers that we are, and the observer of a universe can only be compatible with it. In a theory of multi-universes, even if these universes come from a chaos functioning on the same basis, it is the initial conditions which will determine an evolution where there will be the possibility in some of them, like ours, of a sufficient order for the appearance of observers, who will thus notice this relative order coming from the chaos. "The second paradigm is the one which has emerged in only the last 150 years or so from our increasing scientific understanding of the world, namely that order emerges spontaneously but inevitably from chaos or randomness, and that the world becomes more ordered, complex and interesting over time." https://tasmaniantimes.com/2015/08/order-emerges-out-of-chaos-the-fundamental-d1/ --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #70 on: 2023-03-06, 17:19:55 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	F6FLT Quote If you believe in spirituality, in the existence of a spirit without matter, then you can answer irrationally all you want about it. If, like me, you are a materialist, if you think that the mind is only an emanation of the brain, which has received during its life a multitude of solicitations and information linked to the experience of the individual, to his environment, and to his culture, then imagination, invention and everything that revolves around it comes from the "background noise" of the brain. It's problematic in my opinion because the Primary Fields (Electric, Magnetic, gravic) are considered immaterial. Particles are considered material however the electric and magnetic fields which dictate all forces thus there action are considered immaterial. Unless we want to define the space between particles as material but then were talking about a materialistic concept similar to the Aether or dark energy/matter. It's an interesting debate, a spirit is defined as "a force or principle believed to animate living beings". What are the forces which animates anything?, it's the Primary Fields and Energy which are also considered immaterial like a spirit. So the term spirit just seems like a more primitive and generalized way of describing what we already know of field/energy theory. It gets even more strange when we consider that we are now developing organic computers. These could become an intelligent organic AI with a organic robotic form similar to us in the future. However most would never dare say it has a spirit even if it learned to act like us in every respect. Even if the electro-magnetic field energy moving about between the particles in it's computer is really no different than in our brain. It would all seem to be the same stuff,(particles, fields and energy) which animates everything so how is it any different?. I do not tend to agree with either the Atheist/materialist or spiritual/religious perspectives. I prefer the some things can become more than the simple sum or average of there parts theory and nature. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

ourunity	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #71 on: 2023-03-07, 03:27:40 »
Newbie Posts: 40	A very important understanding of the physical world to us is to recognize the difference between the brain and the mind. BRAIN is physical which means electric. Electricity and the effects of electricity are the sole property of the material world. MIND is spiritual or the controlling power and energy behind physical matter. Magnetic light with mirrors and concave and convex lenses is creating an illusion of motion and substance where nothing exists. The brain can copy, imitate, reason and sense another motion. Imagination, gut feeling, sixth sense, inner knowing and wisdom is magnetic. In this cycle the woman had to be suppressed or the game could not be played out the way it was. Woman is very intuitive, where man’s intellect is not a match for it. These are some things that are a must to know when dealing with information, knowledge and AI.

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #72 on: 2023-03-08, 09:01:55 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: ourunity on 2023-03-07, 03:27:40 ... BRAIN is physical which means electric. Electricity and the effects of electricity are the sole property of the material world. MIND is spiritual or the controlling power and energy behind physical matter. ... You make the same difference between the brain and the mind, as between a computer and a software. The problem is that we have never seen a software having an operational function without a machine to run it. And the very idea of software has only ever existed in a hardware, the human brain. From there to say that it is the hardware that creates the software, since it always precedes it, there is only one step that I will happily take. Your "spiritual" concepts, like all religious ideas, are nothing but an inversion of causes and effects. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #73 on: 2023-03-08, 09:04:30 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-03-06, 17:19:55 F6FLT It's problematic in my opinion because the Primary Fields (Electric, Magnetic, gravic) are considered immaterial. ... It is only your "opinion" that is problematic, because it is an opinion, not knowledge. If you are co-moving with a charge, you do not see a magnetic field. If you move relative to a charge at rest, you see a magnetic field. One observer may see a magnetic field where another observer sees nothing, or each may see different intensities and directions of the field. Science defines an electric field as a property of space where a force F=q.E is exerted on the charge. This is its definition. Only the force is seen by all observers, not the field, which can be seen as electric or magnetic. This definition makes no assumption that the field is "immaterial" but it does make the assumption that space is modified by the field. If you do not conceive the electric field as defined here, it is no longer an electric field, call it something else, define it, and since you speak of "immateriality", also give an operational definition of this term, otherwise it will never be anything but pseudo-scientific gibberish. The idea of an absolute reality that would be the magnetic or electric fields, of an absolute time, and of an undefined "materiality", is childish and completely outdated since more than a century. I don't understand that we are still at this level today, except if we want to go back to the middle-age superstitions. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #74 on: 2023-03-20, 00:37:05 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	Was over at OU.com and Chet made a post about marathonman's website. On the first page I saw this jewel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyQwgBAaBag Veritasium, Risking My Life To Settle A Physics Debate The old DDWFTTW, Directly Down Wind Faster Than the Wind fiasco, lol. This will always stick in my mind because in some sense it changed my mind about the people in science. I believe in science but also believe many treat it like a cult and this was a perfect example. It seemed everyone in physics and science including the forums was calling this a scam, a violation of the COE, a violation of the sacred laws of thermodynamics. Literally everyone got triggered and completely lost it claiming only a fool could believe in such nonsense. I will always remember it because the first thing I did was draw countless sketches, did calculations and concluded something was wrong. Not with the device it works perfectly, not with the science it works perfect as well, it was our perception of what we thought was happening which was flawed. In fact, I nailed down the working principal in under an hour simply by assuming I didn't understand what was actually happening and it must be something else nobody thought of, go figure. The mistakes were similar in nature to FE and everyone concluded the DDWFTTW device could not work because they thought the device was just like a windmill which is absurd. Even a 10 year old knows a windmill effect cannot work and it's obvious why. So how did millions of really smart people make such an amateur mistake and come to all the wrong conclusions?. How could they become so deluded that a physics professor was willing to bet $10,000 he was correct because physics doesn't lie. It proved something I always knew from talking to so many really smart people. There really smart within the limits of there knowledge and what they know and have memorized. However there not much smarter than most people here when something falls outside the context of what they know. In fact it can become a liability not unlike the physics professor making a $10,000 bet he could never be wrong about physics and yet he was. Not only was he wrong and could have lost $10,000 but he made an amateur mistake. It was arrogance assuming he knew exactly what was happening and there was no need to look into it any further. In fact, science tells us we should never make assumptions and we should always ask questions and keep asking questions until were satisfied with the answers. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

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