Bias or propaganda against the free energy community

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Author Topic: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community (Read 7893 times)

Hakasays	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #25 on: 2023-02-10, 14:28:26 »
Hero Member Posts: 568	Quote from: F6FLT Scientists have never claimed "a universe created from nothing" It would seem some do and some don't. https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-debate-hawkings-idea-that-the-universe-had-no-beginning-20190606/ I'm not sure we'll ever have a concrete answer since it borders closer to philosophy than to science. « Last Edit: 2023-02-10, 22:13:54 by Hakasays » --------------------------- "An overly-skeptical scientist might hastily conclude by scooping and analyzing a thousand buckets of ocean water that the ocean has no fish in it."

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #26 on: 2023-02-10, 21:19:49 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	Hakasays Quote It would seem some do and some don't. https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-debate-hawkings-idea-that-the-universe-had-no-beginning-20190606/ I'm not sure we'll ever have a concrete answer since it borders closer to philosophy than to science. I agree but think Stephen Hawking was on the right track. I tend to use brute force reasoning rather than appealing to others dogma's similar to Hawking. For example... 1)If the universe is expanding it must have originated from a compressed cluster of matter and energy. 2)We are then left with trying to explain how the universe originally became compressed in supposed violation of entropy, the COE and causality. 3)To assume the compressed universe just existed for no reason is no different than creationism and getting something from nothing. 4)Ergo, to believe the universe is expanding is to believe it was once compressed by some other forces presently unknown to us. Rather than gut the laws of physics we presently know the easier option is as Hawking suggested. The universe as we know it has no beginning or end and our "observable universe" is similar to how we see other galaxies. Our supposed universe could be just a large formation of grouped galaxies in a sea of other grouped galaxies we mistakenly call a universe. In which case universal compression and expansion could be normal cycles we already see everywhere in nature. As Einstein, Feynman and Hawking implied, I prefer to be disagreeable. I recognize no authority or there beliefs. As Feynman said "Nobody ever figures out what life is all about, and it doesn't matter. Explore the world. Nearly everything is really interesting if you go into it deeply enough." AC « Last Edit: 2023-02-11, 05:47:43 by Allcanadian » --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #27 on: 2023-02-11, 15:00:18 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Hakasays on 2023-02-10, 14:28:26 It would seem some do and some don't. https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-debate-hawkings-idea-that-the-universe-had-no-beginning-20190606/ I'm not sure we'll ever have a concrete answer since it borders closer to philosophy than to science. You have to distinguish science from research, which is not yet science (only its method is scientific). A debate between scientists, including various and even contradictory hypotheses, is part of research, not science. There is no scientific consensus on a big-bang being the beginning of a universe from nothingness and I doubt that even one scientist affirms it in a peer-reviewed scientific publication. Or, same question as to AC, provide the scientific publication that would assert it. Again, a debate is not science, a scientist's word is not science, even a scientific publication without consensus is not science, you need consensus; understand what you are talking about. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #28 on: 2023-02-11, 17:45:32 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	F6FLT Quote Again, a debate is not science, a scientist's word is not science, even a scientific publication without consensus is not science, you need consensus; understand what you are talking about. I found most modern science is kind of like puppeteering. This is my puppet named "science" and rather than me making a claim my puppet will. It can claim anything it wants and we can pretend it's not a person but we know it's really just another person pulling the strings. It's just another convenient scapegoat to deflect from our human nature. It wasn't my mistake it was science or god or unicorns or whatever. It's a slippery slope because in the past the scientific consensus was the Earth was flat, then the center of the universe, then a limited universe and so on. Knowing this one could presume the original consensus on anything has consistently been wrong. So this is a debate on science and how a methodology which should give the correct answers seldom does. The proof is progress which shows most past science and there consensus was wrong. Think about it... if the majority of our past science was proven incorrect then 50 years from now the science you presently know should also be incorrect. You just don't know it yet... Here is a good example... https://www.aier.org/article/why-so-much-science-is-wrong-false-puffed-or-misleading/ Quote It’s not that scientists willfully lie, cheat, or deceive – even though that happens uncomfortably often, even in the best of journals – but that poorly designed experiments, underpowered studies, spreadsheet errors or intentionally or unintentionally manipulated p-values yield results that are too good to be true. Since academics’ careers depend on publishing novel, fascinating and significant results, most of them don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. It's not rocket science, anytime anyone has a vested interest in a given result the process is biased. --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Hakasays	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #29 on: 2023-02-13, 12:59:21 »
Hero Member Posts: 568	Quote from: F6FLT on 2023-02-11, 15:00:18 There is no scientific consensus on a big-bang being the beginning of a universe from nothingness and I doubt that even one scientist affirms it in a peer-reviewed scientific publication. Or, same question as to AC, provide the scientific publication that would assert it. Again, a debate is not science, a scientist's word is not science, even a scientific publication without consensus is not science, you need consensus; understand what you are talking about. Thanks for rephrasing into a more generalized view. I just wanted to correct that while "origin" remains a philosophical/theological notion that there are still many scientists attempting to tackle it (or pretend that they have solved it). --------------------------- "An overly-skeptical scientist might hastily conclude by scooping and analyzing a thousand buckets of ocean water that the ocean has no fish in it."

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #30 on: 2023-02-13, 15:07:59 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-11, 17:45:32 F6FLT I found most modern science is kind of like puppeteering. This is my puppet named "science" .... The so-called "puppet" provides you with the energy that allows you to produce this message and all the computer and network tools through which it travels, and it provides all the modern technology. When you have nothing to show better than the scientists, and even nothing to show at all, you'd better shut up and work, rather than slander. When the obscurantism and esotericism that you defend will be able to do as much as the scientists, don't hesitate to let us know. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #31 on: 2023-02-13, 15:17:46 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Hakasays on 2023-02-13, 12:59:21 Thanks for rephrasing into a more generalized view. I just wanted to correct that while "origin" remains a philosophical/theological notion that there are still many scientists attempting to tackle it (or pretend that they have solved it). The very idea that there would be an "origin" is a prejudice. It is a vestige of the beliefs of creationists. Scientists try to go back as far as they can. There are also theories of cycles. Finally, time being a component of our universe, depending on the gravitational potential, to evoke the "before" big-bang as if we were still in the absolute time of Newton, is meaningless and those who think like that prove only one thing: their scientific inculture, they are more than a century behind. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Hakasays	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #32 on: 2023-02-14, 02:34:22 »
Hero Member Posts: 568	Quote from: F6FLT on 2023-02-13, 15:17:46 The very idea that there would be an "origin" is a prejudice. It is a vestige of the beliefs of creationists. This actually highlights a major prejudice 'Big Bang' theory faced in Lemaitre's era, when the roles were reversed. At that time common scientific consensus was that the universe was as an endless sea with no beginning or end or boundaries (Steady State theory). This 'let there be light' singularity known as the Big Bang faced tremendous bias and scrutiny by the community because of the parallels it had with the creationist view, which is largely why it took so many decades to be adopted. Lemaitre's credentials as a Catholic priest certainly didn't help. (Note: personally I have no real opinion on this matter; I just like to articulate how our biases influence us (myself included)) ------------------------ Bias or propaganda against the free energy community BigBangCreationism.jpg (357.58 kB, 1200x703 - viewed 453 times.) --------------------------- "An overly-skeptical scientist might hastily conclude by scooping and analyzing a thousand buckets of ocean water that the ocean has no fish in it."

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #33 on: 2023-02-15, 17:21:08 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	I thought this was interesting... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeQX2HjkcNo Maths Fundamental Flaw Specifically the game of life created in 1970 by John Conway at minute 1 in the video. As the video explains, even simple patterns with simple rules can do very complex and unexpected things. As the author put it, the patterns can become "undecidable" meaning it's impossible to predict it's outcome. Similar to the concept of uncertainty where we can never know the what and where of things with any accuracy. I found this concept to be true in electrodynamics as well. After a decade or so of research and experiments I found a person starts to get a very good feel for how circuits or machines should work in reality. From our experience, like a circuit simulator based on math, most of the time we can predict what should happen. However not always and there are always exceptions to a rule. For example, in one case while building a smaller variant of the Hubbard device I had a dilemma. By making only a few small changes to the device the result became uncertain and I had no idea what the result would be. The rules changed and by adding a few extra variables the complexity and possible number of different interactions increased exponentially. As the video above suggests the outcome became undecidable and the device did not act like it was supposed to, it did something very different. Watch the patterns generated by Conway's game of life. The rules are very simple and not unlike the electron, proton, neutron of the atom bound by an electric and magnetic field. Yet everything we know with all it's complexity evolved from these relatively small number variables. This is why we need to be very careful about lumping things together or averaging them. Nature with it's infinite amount of complexity and diversity is obviously not a simple lumped sum or average. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #34 on: 2023-02-16, 13:03:32 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Concerning Conway's game of life, it is a game, not real life. And it is deterministic. Even if we don't have an algorithm to predict its evolution, numerical tools can simulate it, the limit being only the computing time. Then real life, especially human life, adds a factor: the non respect of rules. We are indeed not obliged to respect the laws of nature. Of course we are subject to it, but we transcend it thanks to our conscience. If our own evolution was subject to Conway's game of life, we can anticipate evolution in the short or medium term, and decide to change the pattern if we do not like it, it is enough to be always a few steps ahead of Nature. Anticipation adds a feedback factor, allowing a predictable future state to be prevented. This is already common practice (which can lead to instability problems but that is another debate). But I don't see any connection with the subject: "Bias or propaganda against the free energy community". There will always be errors in science, logically undecidable concepts too, science always incomplete too. The only question to ask is: is it the best solution? To claim that this is not an ideal solution is a truism. To claim that because this solution is not ideal, it should be rejected, is the "perfect solution fallacy", thus a logical error. When you don't have anything better to propose, it is better to stick to science. The "free energy community" would do better to point out its own mistakes, which it never does, and which prevents it from making any progress, without any need to invoke conspiracy theories against it or the imperfections of others. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #35 on: 2023-02-16, 20:52:30 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	F6FLT Quote Concerning Conway's game of life, it is a game, not real life. And it is deterministic. Even if we don't have an algorithm to predict its evolution, numerical tools can simulate it, the limit being only the computing time. Then real life, especially human life, adds a factor: the non respect of rules. I agree and that was kind of my point. Most computers have trouble with simulations having even a limited number of variables like Conway's game of life. Even basic models can easily evolve into complex geometric forms and ever increasing complexity and uncertainty. As you say, it's not real life which is beyond the computing capacity of any computers we know of. For example the stock market is a multi trillion dollar industry yet a recent study found a common house cat beat the best stock investors using state of the art predictive computer software. Not by a small margin and the cats supposedly random picks did almost twice as well as the experts. Quote But I don't see any connection with the subject: "Bias or propaganda against the free energy community". There will always be errors in science, logically undecidable concepts too, science always incomplete too. The only question to ask is: is it the best solution? I was thinking in an abstract sense which isn't for everyone. Most are using an argument for normalcy when they object to free energy which is a mistake in my opinion. This is why they like to lump things together and average them. However real life gets messy and there is always a great deal of uncertainty due to random events. You see as a programmer who has run many CFD simulations on gas turbines and wind generators I understand we cannot include random numbers or events. The render time goes from days to hundreds or thousands of years even on fairly basic simulations. The problem is the resolution and number of details/variables involved. Which may be why the real FE inventors like Schauberger said "do the opposite of everyone else" and Steven Marks said "do your worst" ie. chaos theory. I mean if normal isn't working then why not try something else?. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #36 on: 2023-02-17, 17:23:56 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-16, 20:52:30 ... Which may be why the real FE inventors like Schauberger [...] and Steven Marks... We have no real FE, so there are no real FE inventors (except in the imagination of real dreamers). --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #37 on: 2023-02-18, 16:03:56 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	F6FLT Quote We have no real FE, so there are no real FE inventors (except in the imagination of real dreamers). I think your using the same narrative as the fossil fuel and tobacco companies. 1)Cast doubt on the subject. 2)Marginalize the people involved. 3)Repetitive denial of any facts involved. 4)Attempt to rewrite the history of what actually happened. However, as we know the truth always manages to come out sooner or later. It just seems like a waste of time pretending nothing can ever change when we know it always does. I like Tesla's mindset, "the present may be there's but the future is mine". Long after you and the other skeptics are dead and buried he still wins. Tesla still wins because he was the only one who did anything real that matters unlike the skeptics. That's pretty cool... --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #38 on: 2023-02-19, 10:34:52 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-18, 16:03:56 F6FLT I think your using the same narrative as the fossil fuel and tobacco companies. 1)Cast doubt on the subject. 2)Marginalize the people involved. 3)Repetitive denial of any facts involved. 4)Attempt to rewrite the history of what actually happened. ... Your accusations are extremely stupid and a trial of intent. Moreover, this is exactly what you do against scientists. What I am expressing here are only my convictions, without any ulterior motives. Instead of accusing others on the basis of your twisted judgment, clean up your own house and instead of lying to others and to yourself, provide to the humanity that has never seen it, this FE that you claim to already exist. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #39 on: 2023-02-19, 19:07:22 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	F6FLT Obviously, I'm not the one claiming "We have no real FE, so there are no real FE inventors (except in the imagination of real dreamers)" ... in a free energy forum. You just can't seem to break your repetitive pattern... 1)Cast doubt on the subject. 2)Marginalize the people involved. 3)Repetitive denial of any facts involved. 4)Attempt to rewrite the history of what actually happened. --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #40 on: 2023-02-21, 09:41:08 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-19, 19:07:22 F6FLT Obviously, I'm not the one claiming "We have no real FE, so there are no real FE inventors (except in the imagination of real dreamers)" ... in a free energy forum. You just can't seem to break your repetitive pattern... 1)Cast doubt on the subject. 2)Marginalize the people involved. 3)Repetitive denial of any facts involved. 4)Attempt to rewrite the history of what actually happened. "We have no real FE, so there are no real FE inventors", it is me who asserts this, obviously not you. That's why I try to produce it, but you don't because you consider that we already have it! You spend your time: 1) to assert that there would be real inventors of FE and real FE when you don't have it and humanity is waiting for it 2) defame science, scientists and skeptics like me since it is thanks to the scientific method and rational thinking that we can affirm that point 1 is false 3) incessantly repeating lies, urban legends and tales about FE machines that nobody can reproduce and that humanity does not have 4) to write a pseudo-history of this FE from which nobody has ever benefited, on a background of esoteric obscurantism, of praise of dubious characters from which no usable invention has come out, and of blind and unintelligible beliefs. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #41 on: 2023-02-21, 18:25:15 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	FL6FLT Quote "We have no real FE, so there are no real FE inventors", it is me who asserts this, obviously not you. That's why I try to produce it, but you don't because you consider that we already have it! Here's a clue... Inventor: 1)One who invents or devises something new; one who makes an invention. 2)To produce (something, such as a useful device or process) for the first time through the use of the imagination or of ingenious thinking and experiment. 3)One who invents, either as a hobby or as an occupation. By definition an inventor is simply one who invents something. It has nothing to do with patents, science, whether they disclose or share it with anyone in any way or profit from it. The moment anyone invents something new or unique they become an inventor and it has nothing to do with what anyone else believes or not. It's no wonder you keep failing at FE, you don't understand what an inventor is or how invention actually works. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #42 on: 2023-02-22, 16:14:45 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-02-21, 18:25:15 ... 1)One who invents or devises something new ... You have simply forgotten that "something new" that does not work is not an invention in the technical sense that we are interested in, but a fiction, a dream or a lie. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Grumpy	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #43 on: 2023-02-22, 18:52:12 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Define an experiment that will show that FE exists.

partzman	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #44 on: 2023-02-22, 21:25:42 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Deleted..... « Last Edit: 2023-02-24, 22:28:52 by partzman »

Chet K	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #45 on: 2023-02-22, 22:21:34 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Mirror topic ( shared with permission ( as always)) https://overunity.com/19396/poc-proof-of-concept-for-apparent-gain-with-parametric-coil-using-rle/msg574525/#new Respectfully Chet K

ourunity	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #46 on: 2023-02-23, 00:15:45 »
Newbie Posts: 40	My opinion is that we should look into the concepts first such as: F.E...When we learn more about electricity we will build better. There is nothing free in this. OVERUNITY...The potential of this universe is infinite. What then is the meaning of over? Most important is to recognize that we see almost nothing! For over a century, the radial motor is used with so many flaws, but we do not see that. Einstein said “Fast motion multiples electric potential”. Now we have to decide – do we modify the cylindrical coil or this knowledge cannot be applied to our cylindrical coil? The advantage of the axial motor was in its radius. Now someone very smart decided to decrease the radius so the power could be multiplied tremendously!!! The same with the Maglev technology and many others. The biggest question is: if something better arrives, who is going to be the one to recognize it? Throughout history, man used all his might to discredit the new. How far are we today?

F6FLT	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #47 on: 2023-02-23, 15:56:16 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: Grumpy on 2023-02-22, 18:52:12 Define an experiment that will show that FE exists. A scientific demonstration of "free energy" cannot be made. "Free energy" is indeed not a scientific notion because "free" is not. At most, one could make a demonstration of inexhaustible energy coming out of a seemingly isolated setup where nothing would seem to be depleted or significantly depleted. It would not be "free" since at least the setup has to be paid for, but I think that is what we are looking for. In this case any true engineering scheme claimed to be free energy is duplicable and a consensus on the reality of the device can be reached, unless it is a lie, urban legend or tale. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Allcanadian	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #48 on: 2023-02-23, 17:35:20 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	F6FLT Quote You have simply forgotten that "something new" that does not work is not an invention in the technical sense that we are interested in, but a fiction, a dream or a lie. Thankfully your opinion is irrelevant and countless free energy related devices have been patented globally and the persons recognized as real inventors. As defined by patent laws created by federal government/patent lawyers and real inventors not some nut job on the internet. Quote A scientific demonstration of "free energy" cannot be made. "Free energy" is indeed not a scientific notion because "free" is not. Thankfully science is irrelevant and anyone could build and sell countless FE devices to anyone they please. The only laws relate to business law and any claims made regarding a product in question. There are no laws which require the operation of the device be disclosed, that it be reproducible or operable by non-owners or disclosing where the energy comes from or why. The only requirement is that a product work for the "owner" as claimed. Quote At most, one could make a demonstration of inexhaustible energy coming out of a seemingly isolated setup where nothing would seem to be depleted or significantly depleted. It would not be "free" since at least the setup has to be paid for, but I think that is what we are looking for. In this case any true engineering scheme claimed to be free energy is duplicable and a consensus on the reality of the device can be reached, unless it is a lie, urban legend or tale. In fact, free energy is just as it sounds, free (no cost) and energy(relating to the motion of something on some level). All energy is free because it cannot be created or destroyed only transformed. What part of "cannot be created or destroyed" do people not understand?. So when we speak of "free energy" we are referring to the fact "energy" is free regardless of how or what transforms it. We cannot own energy because it's a form of motion, we can only own material energy carriers as objects or material devices which transform energy. For example, can you own the motion of photons or high energy particles ejected from a star like our Sun?. Can you own the motion of electromagnetic waves found everywhere in the universe produced by moving electric or magnetic fields?. Here's a clue, if nobody can own something then it must be free. Here's another clue, to our knowledge nobody owns the rest of the universe outside of Earth including the energy and everything is free. It's only on Earth that people of limited means and intelligence associate a cost with everything. All energy is inherently free... AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Grumpy	Re: Bias or propaganda against the free energy community « Reply #49 on: 2023-02-23, 19:02:02 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr

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