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OverUnity Research > Benches > Vidura (Moderator: Vidura) > Concepts and principles of OU devices.
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Concepts and principles of OU devices. « on: 2023-01-04, 01:32:37 »
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This topic is intended as a complement of the BTG research topic, to propose some alternative hypothesis about the principles of operation. The Idea is to guide the practical research to discover the actual physical concepts on which these devices could likely relay. So in first place the approach is not to try to replicate a specific device, or do reverse engineering.
In the thread we will have a look on some basic concepts and principles of some OU devices, like the machines from Ruslan, Akula, Dally and Kapanadze.
In the first part we will address some general considerations, and have a look at some OU machines which are accepted by conventional science. It may at the first glance look like off-topic, but it is really worthwhile to take the time to reflect about the involved principles and eventually draw analogies to electrodynamics.
In this place I want to give credit and express my gratitude to Sergei Deyna, a great Researcher from Russia. He has made a huge number of experiments in diverse areas of physics, and published many papers from which I have used some parts for posting in the forums with his kind permission.
It is well known from Newtons theory about thermodynamics, that energy cannot be created or destroyed. But it can be transformed in different forms, and it can be collected for our purposes. So if we want to understand, or replicate,  such a machine, in first place we have to ask  the two key questions:
1.) Where does the surplus energy come from?
2.)How does this happen, what are the involved physical principles?

Let's take as an example a well-known and accepted OU machine, the heat pump. I think most of you know about this device, which is widely implemented in refrigerators, heating systems, or reversible air-conditioning devices which can operate in both directions. It is well known by engineers, that a modern heat pump can have a COP up to 5( for heating systems with liquid medium temperature exchanger's) . That means for one unit electric power , five units of thermal energy can be obtained. Refrigerators use the very same system, but the obtained heat energy is normally dissipated without using it.
For the first question it is quite obvious that the extra energy comes from the thermal background energy of the environment (air, water, earth ).
The second question is also not very difficult if someone has some basic information about thermodynamics.
Anyway a detailed analysis will help us for better understanding and give some inspiration for other less known and accepted machines. Usually it is stated that there are  two main parameters, temperature and pressure, but this is an incomplete  view of the process.(the Carnot diagram in textbooks is plotted as a two coordinate cycle, but actually it should be three-dimensional, because of the missing third parameter) The third parameter which is missing in the diagram is the displacement of the medium, of special importance in resonant systems.
Under normal circumstances they will have directly proportional relationship, any increase in pressure will rise the temperature and vice versa.
This relates to a closed system, which does not interchange Energy with the environment, and is also called an adiabatic process. To get a non-adiabatic process, which is of our interest, some specific conditions have to be present. Of course the temperature exchangers on the hot and cold side are required in hardware, as well as a closed circuit filled with a medium. It can be any gas in case of thermodynamics, but for better performance special refrigerant is used, which will experience a change of its state of aggregate from gas to liquid and back, which increases the heat transfer by orders of magnitude. Then we need to create a difference of pressure inside the circuit,  usually a compressor will provide the propulsion of the medium, and a release valve will help to divide the circuit into two zones of different pressure. A heat exchanger will be placed in in each zone of pressure.
This setup produces a shift of phase between pressure and temperature, and this is what is making the process non adiabatic, and allows to transfer heat energy from a lower temperature level to a higher one, making possible all the before mentioned practical implementations of this devices.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #1 on: 2023-01-04, 01:39:22 »
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Now let's make an analysis of another thermodynamic device:
There is another way to create a heat pump without a compressor and refrigerant, in which the working fluid itself (for example air or any gas) becomes a source of temperature differences and, under certain conditions, is capable of performing mechanical work itself.
Since all thermal phenomena are reversible, then by supplying thermal energy to the machine, mechanical work can be obtained at the output. Such devices are usually called thermoacoustic motors.
The simplest thermoacoustic machine consists of a resonator in the form of a tube and a regenerator made of a porous material, on the sides of which a temperature difference is created. In the simplest case, the regenerator can be a burner inserted inside the resonator (in the form of a vertically mounted glass tube) or a heated metal porous mesh, as shown in the figure below.
The optimal position of the flame is in the centre of the resonator, and the (heated) grid is approximately L / 4 distance from the lower end.
See the illustration 1 attached below.
The heat engine or thermoacoustic machine is of special interest for us, as it will help us to understand and draw analogy to various types of electrical self-feeding devices, which uses the principles of resonance.


The theory of the effect under consideration was created by Rayleigh in 1878, in which he discovered the principle that currently underlies all thermoacoustic.



And so, we will compare the principles of operation of the heat pump (generator) and the heat engine:
The principal of a heat pump:
1) if heat is transferred to the gas at the moment of maximum rarefaction and/or heat is taken away at the moment of maximum compression , then this stimulates the transfer of heat energy.

The thermodynamic phenomenon underlying thermoacoustic is reversible.

The principle of operation of a heat engine :
2) if heat is transferred to the gas at the moment of maximum compression and / or heat is taken away at the moment of maximum rarefaction, then this stimulates gas oscillations.

The thermoacoustic device can be based on two modes of  resonant oscillations, on standing waves or on travelling waves.
Here  standing wave device in heat-pump mode with the graphs for displacement, pressure and temperature(attachement2):
Below in attachement3  we can see a travelling wave device in mode of a heat engine.
And in this video you can see a travelling wave resonator, which is used to produce electric energy from the vibrations of an attached magnet in a practical implementation:
https://youtu.be/F2cTgt9WEBE
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #2 on: 2023-01-04, 01:50:29 »
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An interesting point is that a standing wave will be established in a half-wave resonator, when pressure and displacement will perform harmonic oscillations. But in addition to pressure and displacement, the working fluid in the resonator also changes the temperature according to a sinusoidal law, especially in the pressure anti-nodes. Depending on whether the ends of the resonator are open or closed, the pressure anti-nodes will be located either in the centre of the resonator or at its ends, respectively. The illustration below shows diagrams in which pressure anti-nodes are visible at the edges and in the centre. See attachment 1
The hydraulic RAM pump is an example for a self-oscillating device, that uses a non-compressible medium to collect energy from a low level source and shift it to a higher level. There are many different ways to get free energy. Some relative simple to do, others much more complex. Why there are such few replications of the BTG devices from Ruslan, Akula, Kapanazde to name only a few? Are we all that dull  that we are not able to replicate? I don't think so, first and this is the most important cause, we do not completely understand the theories and underlying principles, and second, there are  skills of various types required to build them. And this is the main purpose of this thread, to fill the gaps of knowledge.
The reason for analysing the thermodynamic devices is that they will help to draw analogy to the electrical machines, and understand intuitively what's going on (domain of the right brain hemisphere). Thinking about the inconvenience with certain areas of textbook physics, I decided to decline to open disputes against them, as this would only lead to unfruitful discussion with those who are not ready to abandon the obsolete ideas. Instead I will simply trying to show alternative ways of explanations, and try to fit the pieces of the puzzle together, in order to attain step by step a more complete view of the whole picture.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #3 on: 2023-01-04, 01:53:13 »
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In continuation we will begin to look for the analogies to the electric generators which are based on the principles of resonance for energy collection.



There is a good reason to take the thermodynamic devices, and specially the thermoacoustic resonators as examples , as analogues  to the principles of resonant electric devices.  Because a detailed understanding of its working principles will allow us to build the exact equivalents of electrical machines.
So let's make a list of the required hardware and the involved parameters first.
    Hardware:
1. The Resonator
2. The Medium
3. A hot heat exchanger
4. A cold heat exchanger
5. The Regenerator or Stack

     Parameters:
6. Pressure
7. Displacement of the medium
8. Temperature

Then we will begin to associate this with our electric devices. Some of these are easy and obvious, others will require some more studies. I will not be able to give you all answers yet, but I will show you a crucial piece of the puzzle, this will require to delve a bit into another areas of physics. This will make you understand why such few people have succeeded in replications of this machines.
Let's start with the more simple of the equivalents.

1. An Inductor is the Resonator
2. Electric charges are the medium.
3.  Kacher-Brovin or TC is equivalent to the heat source, and the "antenna coil" to the hot heat exchanger.
4. Earth ground wire or a massive metallic object is equivalent to the cold heat exchanger.
5. A certain section of the main resonator circuit (for ex. Grenade coil) is equivalent to the Regenerator
6. EMF is the pressure (Remember N.Tesla  was using the same term in electricity).
7. Current is Displacement of the medium(charges).
8. Atomic excitation(or ionization) is equivalent to Temperature.



Before we continue the thread I would like to make the following statement: I only  want to bring bits and pieces together. All this thread relays on the work of many researchers, I try to select what is of interest for our purposes and consider eventually unconventional theories  for a more complete understanding and to make the OU devices more predictable.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #4 on: 2023-01-04, 02:03:37 »
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Let's now think about an experiment, that was performed in 1914 by the German physicians James Franck and Gustav Hertz. The experiment consisted in a vacuum tube in which a small amount of mercury was evaporated.  Here some extracts out of Wikipedia, where you can find more information if you wish:
Attachment 1:
The Franck–Hertz experiment was the first electrical measurement to clearly show the quantum nature of atoms, They discovered that, when an electron collided with a mercury atom, it could lose only a specific quantity (4.9 electron volts) of its kinetic energy before flying away. This energy loss corresponds to decelerating the electron from a speed of about 1.3 million meters per second to zero.
A faster electron does not decelerate completely after a collision, but loses precisely the same amount of its kinetic energy. Slower electrons merely bounce off mercury atoms without losing any significant speed or kinetic energy

Attachment 2:
Elastic and inelastic collisions of electrons with mercury atoms. Electrons traveling slowly change direction after elastic collisions, but do not change their speed. Faster electrons lose most of their speed in inelastic collisions. The lost kinetic energy is deposited into the mercury atom. The atom subsequently emits radiation, and returns to its original state.

These experimental results proved to be consistent with the Bohr model for atoms that had been proposed the previous year by Niels Bohr. The Bohr model was a precursor of quantum mechanics  and of the electron shell model of atoms. Its key feature was that an electron inside an atom occupies one of the atom's "quantum energy levels". Before the collision, an electron inside the mercury atom occupies its lowest available energy level. After the collision, the electron inside occupies a higher energy level with 4.9 electron volts (eV) more energy. This means that the electron is more loosely bound to the mercury atom. There were no intermediate levels or possibilities in Bohr's quantum model. This feature was "revolutionary" because it was inconsistent with the expectation that an electron could be bound to an atoms nucleus by any amount of energy.
In a second paper presented in May 1914, Franck and Hertz reported on the light emission by the mercury atoms that had absorbed energy from collisions. They showed that the wavelength of this ultraviolet light corresponded exactly to the 4.9 eV of energy that the flying electron had lost.
Attachment3:
Wavelengths of light emitted by a mercury vapor discharge and by a Franck–Hertz tube in operation at 10 V. The Franck–Hertz tube primarily emits light with a wavelength near 254 nanometres, whereas the discharge emits light at many wavelengths. Based on the original 1914 figure.

The relationship of energy and wavelength had also been predicted by Bohr because he had followed the structure laid out by Hendrick Lorentz at the 1911 Solvay Congress. At Solvay, Hendrik Lorentz suggested after Einstein’s talk on quantum structure that the energy of a rotator be set equal to n*h*v. Therefore, Bohr had followed the instructions given in 1911 and copied the formula proposed by Lorentz and others into his 1913 atomic model. Lorentz had been correct. The quantization of the atoms matched his formula incorporated into the Bohr model. After a presentation of these results by Franck a few years later, Albert Einstein is said to have remarked, "It's so lovely it makes you cry."
 
The experiment with Neon, attachment 4:
In instructional laboratories, the Franck–Hertz experiment is often done using neon gas, which shows the onset of inelastic collisions with a visible orange glow in the vacuum tube, and which also is non-toxic, should the tube be broken. With mercury tubes, the model for elastic and inelastic collisions predicts that there should be narrow bands between the anode and the grid where the mercury emits light, but the light is ultraviolet and invisible. With neon, the Franck–Hertz voltage interval is 18.7 volts, and an orange glow appears near the grid when 18.7 volts is applied. This glow will move closer to the cathode with increasing accelerating potential, and indicates the locations where electrons have acquired the 18.7 eV required to excite a neon atom. At 37.4 volts two distinct glows will be visible: one midway between the cathode and grid, and one right at the accelerating grid. Higher potentials, spaced at 18.7 volt intervals, will result in additional glowing regions in the tube.

The last image shows the original device used by Franck and Hertz.

From <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franck%E2%80%93Hertz_experiment>

It should be remarked, that this experiment is one of the pillars of the modern quantum mechanics. If someone wants to dig a little bit deeper in this, there is a lot of information available on the internet. Of course the energy quanta for all substances  and for different levels of excitement can be calculated with an equation, using the atomic number and the involved electron shells.
Of special interest for us might be the values for copper: 1.4 eV (excitation) or 7.62 eV (ionisation).
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #5 on: 2023-01-04, 02:09:34 »
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Almost half a century later in 1959 the laser was discovered, based on the very same principals of quantum mechanics.

In the following extract  we can find some most interesting details:

An electron in an atom can absorb energy from light (photons), heat (phonons) or an EMF only if there is a transition between energy levels that matches the energy carried by the photon or phonon or it will absorb the matching potential from an applied EMF.  For light, this means that any given transition will only absorb one particular wavelength of light. Photons with the correct wavelength can cause an electron to jump from the lower to the higher energy level. The photon is consumed in this process.

When an electron is excited from one state to that at a higher energy level with energy difference ΔE, it will not stay that way forever. Eventually, a photon will be spontaneously created from the vacuum(?? To be discussed further) having energy ΔE . Conserving energy, the electron transitions to a lower energy level which is not occupied, with transitions to different levels having different time constants. This process is called "spontaneous emission". Spontaneous emission is a quantum-mechanical effect and a direct physical manifestation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The emitted photon has random direction, but its wavelength matches the absorption wavelength of the transition. This is the mechanism of fluorescence and thermal emission.

A photon with the correct wavelength to be absorbed by a transition can also cause an electron to drop from the higher to the lower level, emitting a new photon. The emitted photon exactly matches the original photon in wavelength, phase, and direction. This process is called stimulated emission.
 
The gain medium:

The gain medium is put into an excited state by an external source of energy. In most lasers this medium consists of a population of atoms which have been excited into such a state by means of an outside light source, or an electrical field which supplies energy for atoms to absorb and be transformed into their excited states.

The gain medium of a laser is normally a material of controlled purity, size, concentration, and shape, which amplifies the beam by the process of stimulated emission described above. This material can be of any state of aggregation: gas, liquid, solid. The gain medium absorbs pump energy, which raises some electrons into higher-energy ("excited") quantum states. Particles can interact with light by either absorbing or emitting photons. Emission can be spontaneous or stimulated. In the latter case, the photon is emitted in the same direction as the light that is passing by. When the number of particles in one excited state exceeds the number of particles in some lower-energy state, population inversion is achieved. In this state, the rate of stimulated emission is larger than the rate of absorption of light in the medium, and therefore the light is amplified. A system with this property is called an optical amplifier. When an optical amplifier is placed inside a resonant optical cavity, one obtains a laser.

At this point some might get some inspiration what we are looking for.
Ask yourself what have these processes in common, and how could this be associated with the thermodynamic and electrodynamic processes before mentioned.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #6 on: 2023-01-04, 03:00:35 »

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I'm exploring "displacement of the medium"...
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #7 on: 2023-01-04, 12:44:23 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2023-01-04, 03:00:35
I'm exploring "displacement of the medium"...
Do you have a topic where you are posting your results? Maybe I could comment something related...
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #8 on: 2023-01-04, 13:23:58 »
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Now I will summarize the Idea and proposed implementation in the BTG. 
1. A resonant circuit at a relative low frequency is used as principal resonator, and would be the equivalent of the thermoacoustic resonant conduit.
2. A high voltage source provides the potential needed for the atomic excitation. This has a low energetic cost, provided that the source dipole, or secondary resonator(TC, Kacher)is not depleted.
3. The antenna coil would be the equivalent of the hot heat-exchanger. The Drossel inductor might have the purpose to block the dielectric displacement wave and let pass only potential.
4. The bifilar section of the principal resonator is intended to produce a phase shift between the anti-node of potential and the associated atomic excitation. It is the analogue of the stack, or regenerator in thermoacoustics.
5. The long earth-ground wire has the purpose to dissipate the radiation of the excited atoms, when they are returning to their low energy state. It is most important to tune the oscillations of the ground current with the principal resonator, it has to be part of the oscillatory circuit. It would be the equivalent of the cold heat-exchanger, and cold spot in thermoacoustics.
If this 5 components are properly set up with the correct parameters, there should appear an undampened oscillation in the principal resonator by a positive feedback in each cycle. Then some amount of the gain can be extracted by
6.the removal coil or similar means for a regulated extraction of  usable energy and provide the feedback for the needed input power. 
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #9 on: 2023-01-04, 14:55:48 »
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Quote from: Vidura on 2023-01-04, 13:23:58
Now I will summarize the Idea and proposed implementation in the BTG. 
1. A resonant circuit at a relative low frequency is used as principal resonator, and would be the equivalent of the thermoacoustic resonant conduit.
2. A high voltage source provides the potential needed for the atomic excitation. This has a low energetic cost, provided that the source dipole, or secondary resonator(TC, Kacher)is not depleted.
3. The antenna coil would be the equivalent of the hot heat-exchanger. The Drossel inductor might have the purpose to block the dielectric displacement wave and let pass only potential.
4. The bifilar section of the principal resonator is intended to produce a phase shift between the anti-node of potential and the associated atomic excitation. It is the analogue of the stack, or regenerator in thermoacoustics.
5. The long earth-ground wire has the purpose to dissipate the radiation of the excited atoms, when they are returning to their low energy state. It is most important to tune the oscillations of the ground current with the principal resonator, it has to be part of the oscillatory circuit. It would be the equivalent of the cold heat-exchanger, and cold spot in thermoacoustics.
If this 5 components are properly set up with the correct parameters, there should appear an undampened oscillation in the principal resonator by a positive feedback in each cycle. Then some amount of the gain can be extracted by
6.the removal coil or similar means for a regulated extraction of  usable energy and provide the feedback for the needed input power.

Hi Vidura,

I appreciate your approach, everything is clearly stated, the scientific references are very enlightening, and I like the idea of reasoning by analogy, or transposition, consisting in taking a principle such as that of a heat pump to apply it in another field, e.g. to an electrical device.

On the other hand, the references to Ruslan, Akula, Kapanadze do not bring anything, nobody credible has duplicated their so-called inventions, whereas any engineer can reproduce an electric diagram properly described, even if he does not understand it.

To continue a bit in generalities, I also believe that we should look more deeply into the notion of "OU". If a device produces OU, it is clear that the COP is > 1.
But a COP >1 does not imply, from my point of view, OU, a notion that I reserve for "free energy". Indeed, thermal energy is a degraded energy. Even if it is true that we take much more energy from the environment than the electrical energy that powers the heat pump, we cannot transform this energy gain into electrical energy that powers the pump. In other words, the device cannot be self-sustaining, so we will always have to pay for the initial electrical energy that powers the pump, which is not free energy.

Now let's come to the synthesis of your Reply #8. A high voltage cannot excite atoms to energy levels higher than the energy it supplies itself. The excitation of atoms requires a current. Because the voltage is high, the current is low, but we still have P=U*I. I have a 50 KV, 3 mA power supply. 3mA is not much, but it's still 150W, that's the maximum power supplied, and as the efficiency is not 100%, the electrical energy taken from the mains is still higher.
So I don't understand where you hope to take the initial energy, the one equivalent to the thermal energy of the environment in the case of the heat pump.



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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #10 on: 2023-01-04, 15:38:38 »

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Thanks Vidura, I quite enjoyed your dialogue.    I completely agree that it's important to focus on equivalent principles and try to understand where the asymmetries exist in order for us to better understand and exploit it.

The Heat pump analogy as applied to parametric variation is something I've been pondering for years.  A simple principle and one that can be modeled mathematically, yet difficult to physically construct and quantify.


IMO boils down to 'what is a simple analogy for operation and what is the simplest embodiment to demonstrate it?'.
Note that this doesn't need to be OU, it just needs to demonstrate the asymmetry.  If it turns out to be easier to destroy energy than synthesize it, that would be just as remarkable as being able to pull it from the vacuum. >:-)



(tangentially related clip of mine: https://www.bitchute.com/video/6DsqNeO2wrxD/  :P)


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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #11 on: 2023-01-04, 15:56:48 »

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Quote from: Vidura on 2023-01-04, 12:44:23
Do you have a topic where you are posting your results? Maybe I could comment something related...

I've been building the AVEC device that "Spherics" disclosed off and on for several years.

Just last weekend, I achieved the necessary pulse parameters with a single channel.  Now I'll build the other 5 channels and hope to test in a couple of weeks.

The device is supposed to operate by moving the ether medium...
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #12 on: 2023-01-04, 18:02:22 »
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Quote from: F6FLT on 2023-01-04, 14:55:48

To continue a bit in generalities, I also believe that we should look more deeply into the notion of "OU". If a device produces OU, it is clear that the COP is > 1.
But a COP >1 does not imply, from my point of view, OU, a notion that I reserve for "free energy". Indeed, thermal energy is a degraded energy. Even if it is true that we take much more energy from the environment than the electrical energy that powers the heat pump, we cannot transform this energy gain into electrical energy that powers the pump. In other words, the device cannot be self-sustaining, so we will always have to pay for the initial electrical energy that powers the pump, which is not free energy.
Thanks F6FLT.
I appreciate your critical observations. Although IMO it should be possible to back loop a heat pump working at optimal parameters and using the most efficient way to convert the heat to electricity again, but it is clear that would not provide a practical solution, as it would be expensive and the margin of usable excess energy  very small.
Quote
Now let's come to the synthesis of your Reply #8. A high voltage cannot excite atoms to energy levels higher than the energy it supplies itself. The excitation of atoms requires a current. Because the voltage is high, the current is low, but we still have P=U*I. I have a 50 KV, 3 mA power supply. 3mA is not much, but it's still 150W, that's the maximum power supplied, and as the efficiency is not 100%, the electrical energy taken from the mains is still higher.
So I don't understand where you hope to take the initial energy, the one equivalent to the thermal energy of the environment in the case of the heat pump.
The important question where does the "firewood" come from:
The statement that a high voltage cannot excite atoms to energy levels higher than the energy it supplies itself is certainly true for a closed system, an adiabatic process without interchange with the environment. Under normal conditions the high voltage and the level of excitement will be simultaneous, in phase. As the atom acquires a higher energy level it absorbs photons of certain range from the environment(or background radiation) to compensate  for the stability of the atom. when the emf decreases, it emits them again. The process becomes non-adiabatic when a phase shift between the applied EMF and the level of excitement is achieved, then the system becomes opened for an exchange of energy with the background radiation. The absorption of this radiation would become possible beyond the  energy level of applied EMF, as the maximum of atomic excitement would be time differing from the former. Similar to the phase shift of temperature and pressure in thermoacoustics.
 I will remind you that for the moment it is a hypothesis, but if it is possible to proof the effects experimentally, it might be considered as a valid theory.
Regards Vidura.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #13 on: 2023-01-04, 18:07:32 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2023-01-04, 15:56:48
I've been building the AVEC device that "Spherics" disclosed off and on for several years.

Just last weekend, I achieved the necessary pulse parameters with a single channel.  Now I'll build the other 5 channels and hope to test in a couple of weeks.

The device is supposed to operate by moving the ether medium...
I will have a look on it, thanks.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #14 on: 2023-01-04, 18:14:00 »
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Quote from: Hakasays on 2023-01-04, 15:38:38



IMO boils down to 'what is a simple analogy for operation and what is the simplest embodiment to demonstrate it?'.

Agreed, It might be a good approach to think about the simplest way to proof the concept, and not to stick too much on the devices shown by the well known authors.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #15 on: 2023-01-05, 09:39:38 »
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Quote from: Vidura on 2023-01-04, 18:02:22
...
The statement that a high voltage cannot excite atoms to energy levels higher than the energy it supplies itself is certainly true for a closed system, an adiabatic process without interchange with the environment. Under normal conditions the high voltage and the level of excitement will be simultaneous, in phase. As the atom acquires a higher energy level it absorbs photons of certain range from the environment(or background radiation) to compensate  for the stability of the atom. when the emf decreases, it emits them again. The process becomes non-adiabatic when a phase shift between the applied EMF and the level of excitement is achieved, then the system becomes opened for an exchange of energy with the background radiation. The absorption of this radiation would become possible beyond the  energy level of applied EMF, as the maximum of atomic excitement would be time differing from the former. Similar to the phase shift of temperature and pressure in thermoacoustics.
 I will remind you that for the moment it is a hypothesis, but if it is possible to proof the effects experimentally, it might be considered as a valid theory.
Regards Vidura.

Thank you for this important clarification. The guiding idea is therefore that the voltage which would excite the atoms would be "aided" by the background radiation. This speculation is daring but worth testing.



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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #16 on: 2023-01-06, 20:48:16 »
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A little bit profound view of the proposed principle: It shall be remarked that I try to follow classic physics  and conventions as far as possible.  Let's consider a conductor in solid state of aggregation: Composed by atoms whose positive charged nuclei are bound in the molecular lattice and  the negative charged electrons hold in their orbits by the nuclear forces. A conductive material differs from the dielectric in the availability of valence electrons, which can be dislocated by a minimal emf applied to the conductor, and move then freely across the molecular structures. The free electrons are repelling each other cause of the coulomb force but they can't leave the conductor under normal conditions. For this reason they behave similar to a gas and can be compressed or rarefied by the forces of an applied EMF. At higher energy levels beside the already free valence electrons  also the other electrons in orbits closer to the nuclei are excited and rise to higher orbits, and get eventually dislocated when the atoms reach the ionisation level. In this case they will add to the displacement of those already present. We could conclude, that the energetic level of excitement increases in proportion to the distance between the nuclei and the electrons and vice versa. As the EMF, or other source of external energy(radiation, heat for example) diminishes, the electrons will return to their lower energy state occupying an orbit closer to the nuclei, while emitting a photon of the matching wavelength. When such a photon impacts on a nearby object of the same material it would likely be absorbed rising it's excitement level, which under the right conditions(resonance) would lead to the appearance of an EMF in this separate conductor. In this case a phase shift between the two EMF should be observed, not at 180º like in the case of capacitive coupling, but 90º  because when the potential of the emitting conductor falls, the one of the receiver would rise simultaneously. If it is possible by such means to delay the level of excitement relative to the potential, we could assume that there are possibilities to build "charge resonators" powered by the background radiation of the environment, as the electrodynamic analogues of the thermoacoustic resonators.   
One more comparison with thermodynamics: At a surficial view we could think that the heat in a heat pump comes from the energy applied to the compressor. But also in this case the phase shift between pressure and temperature makes it clear that this is not the case. The energy of the compressor rises the gas pressure , concentrating the already present thermal energy of the medium. It would be including be possible to recover an important amount of the prime mover energy at the release valve(replacing it by a turbine for ex.) without affecting the level shifting of temperature. Also the COP of this devices makes it clear, that the  heat energy does not come from the compressor, unless the small fraction of its losses.
An argument for a similar process in atomic excitation by means of an EMF: The excitation would be caused by coulomb forces acting upon the elementary charges which composes the atoms. For this process no current flow is required and should be inhibited by the layout of the system(open circuit).
If phase shift is possible, the absorption of background energy would happen at a different time when the potential is lower.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #17 on: 2023-01-07, 03:35:00 »

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If concepts leading to overunity or free energy were found in currently accepted physics, then we would have these devices all around us.

This leads me to believe that the concepts leading to the operating principles of these devices will only be found by looking beyond what is normal.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #18 on: 2023-01-07, 09:47:32 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2023-01-07, 03:35:00
If concepts leading to overunity or free energy were found in currently accepted physics, then we would have these devices all around us.

This leads me to believe that the concepts leading to the operating principles of these devices will only be found by looking beyond what is normal.
Yes, therefore I stated that I adhere to classics "as far as possible" but there are grey zones and misconceptions , which eventually will be corrected, when the proofs are unshakeable. Science today is not the same than a century ago and will continue changing.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #19 on: 2023-01-07, 17:41:45 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2023-01-07, 03:35:00
If concepts leading to overunity or free energy were found in currently accepted physics, then we would have these devices all around us.

This leads me to believe that the concepts leading to the operating principles of these devices will only be found by looking beyond what is normal.

I agree, it is indeed the right method O0, looking for anomalies in what is not well known, or pushing to the limit what is.

But physicists do it too. Their main concern is to find a "new physics".
The competition is tough!  :)


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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #20 on: 2023-01-08, 00:57:29 »
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Still working out a theoretical model in details, I will share some more thoughts. In the proposed system the negative charged electrons are the medium, for conductors in solid state of aggregation only those are able to some degree of displacement. From this follows that this charges are the carriers of the different manifestations of energy in question. Firstly there is the inherent electric charge of opposite sign  of electrons and nuclei giving rise to the coulomb force or potential energy, but there is also the kinetic energy of the electrons which balances the former in a dynamic equilibrium. The centrifugal force holds them in orbits, like planets in the solar system balances the attraction to the sun with the rotational movement.  Here I argue that the total energy of an atom is constant, when the potential energy decreases, the kinetic energy increases, and vice versa. For example when a spaceship is intended to leave a planet, it has to increase its kinetic energy, while the potential energy  due to the reduction of gravity, in this case will  also reduce in proportion to the distance. This would lead us to the conclusion, that the formula E=m.c2 is incomplete, as the kinetic energy of the orbiting electrons is not taken into account in this formula. Some food for thoughts for those who are not satisfied with classic physics.
From various experimental observations we know already about the exchange of photons(radiation) when electrons are accelerated or decelerated. X-rays, the Laser (besides visual light many other wavelengths of photons included), the Frank Hertz experience.
When the distance between nuclei and electrons increases, the increase of the coulomb force between the nuclei (repelling force) would make the molecular structure unstable, therefore nature intervenes by balancing the lost equilibrium with photons. Including I argue that a constant inflow of energy has to be there, as a rotating charge will dissipate energy continuously. The same is true for solar systems in the macro cosmos. A planet like the earth with the oceans on its surface would inevitably slow down the rotation and eventually stall, as  it would continuously lose momentum, unless the kinetic energy is kept at a constant value by a regulating force.
Back to the atoms. When I made a calculate for the first ionization level of copper, which is 7.72eV using Planck's formula I got corresponding wavelength of 160.6 nm. This is situated between UVc  and x-ray range. For the excitation energy I found 1.4eV and this gave a wavelength of 885nm in the infrared spectrum area. It is well known, that the properties of photon radiations is varying considerable with its wavelength regarding penetration and interaction with different materials, so there is still a lot  to explore.
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #21 on: 2023-01-08, 02:52:52 »
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Our way to look into OU, we can start from the beginning when knowledge about electricity was very minimal. There was no knowledge whatsoever, that poles are opposite phases and matter is double charged, as some call it.  On top of it, the motor was built using only one side of the coil, which equals 50% of its potential.

Second, the coils were built in a way that anodes were enclosed, where they could not express themselves, diminishing potential even further. The knowledge about nature’s processes did arrive about 100 years ago, but it was not applied to the motor.

For this reason, our group studied electricity first, with many experiments, that will be shared on this board or at our own bench.

We are all expecting something spectacular like the big bang for OU, but now we see that it is much simpler then we thought. Knowledge and a lot of common sense can make big leaps and improvements in our research.

The question is – where is all that extra power coming from? The simple answer is knowledge and common sense. Even better, from nowhere, it was always there.

We grow and we start to see further. Now we know that heat is caused by one coil working alone, which is not nature’s process. Nature uses 2 coils side by side, one clockwise and the other counter clockwise. With one direction it creates 2 effects: first is push from outside inward towards the centre to create gravity or compression. The other effect is to push from the centre outward to create expansion. With this process, firing only one coil would create its reaction on the other side which does not need any input of power on our side.

This is the sole reason that there is no wasteful heat. A new video is coming shortly with a much better visual explanation.

Bets Regards
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #22 on: 2023-01-10, 02:55:20 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2023-01-09, 21:14:00

    do these devices have a common theory of operation?
There is a common pattern in this devices. Note that the builders where in most cases radio technicians, therefore their explanations and also implemented technic approaches are related to this theme. Regarding the principles, there are differing versions, but nothing thoroughly verified. Some speech of "pushing the magnetic field with high voltage" others refer to nuclear magnetic resonance. Lately I have read a translation of a video, where Ruslan explains how the different parts of his device interact. He was careful not giving any explanations about the physical principals, stating that it was good enough to know how to set up the parameters, and light the lamp. :) 
Not for me, but anyway as it is the only detailed description I found of what supposedly happens in the device, I will post in brief:
First the tesla coil, or Kacher. Its function is of course to produce the HV HF, and is a 1/4 wave resonator. He describes the spiral transmitter as a capacitor, and the choke in-between is used for fine-tuning. The grenade coil is the reception coil, the spiral is placed over the partially cancelling sector. On the other end(normal wound)  a second inductor is coupled, which is driven in anti-phase(180º). This sets up the standing wave tuned to 1/2 wave. The modulation has to be synchronised to apply the pulses in the potential anti-node when it has passed its maximum. He emphasized the importance of the ground wire, which has to be tuned in syntony with the tesla resonator, which can be done eventually winding it up a few turns near a current anti-node. In the circuit of the grenade the principal capacitor, and a bridge rectifier with another capacitor across.
To tune this all together requires certainly some skills in radio engineering :)   
 
The general description is sound, of course as you know from the earlier posts, my hypothesis is not according the before mentioned, below description how this would be explained in context with it.

The TC produces the scalar potential waves(could be described as dielectric pressure waves), when it is resonating with the ground wire it produces the actual "pumping force" of the medium(electrons).  The grenade and the secondary inductor are two LCR resonators, which have to be tuned to the same frequency, but in anti-phase. Two current waves(displacement of charges) in opposite direction give rise to an standing wave. The anti-node of voltage has to be established in the sector of the cancelling windings under the spiral. In the moment when the anti-node has passed its maximum(maximal pressure of electrons) the impact of scalar waves on the charges will rise their kinetic energy accelerating them faster and  absorb photons from the environment to keep stable. Then in the phase of relaxation the charges propagate (more precisely their kinetic energy) across grenade winding to the ground wire while decelerating relative to the positive charges of the conductor emitting photons in this process.
A gradient of the atomic excitement  is needed in the grenade coil, where the potential gradually decreases from the spiral to the part which connects to the ground wire. As the  turns of  adjacent layers are close to each other's, the emitted photons of decelerating charges will excite the neighbouring turns, but with diminishing energy level towards the ground wire which has the function of a dissipator in addition to be part of the resonant system.
Note that this is my particular interpretation, and might change as experimental results proof or discard some concept.
Regards Vidura             
   
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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #23 on: 2023-01-10, 03:22:27 »

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Quote from: Vidura on 2023-01-10, 02:55:20
The anti-node of voltage has to be established in the sector of the cancelling windings under the spiral. In the moment when the anti-node has passed its maximum(maximal pressure of electrons) the impact of scalar waves on the charges will rise their kinetic energy accelerating them faster and  absorb photons from the environment to keep stable. Then in the phase of relaxation the charges propagate (more precisely their kinetic energy) across grenade winding to the ground wire while decelerating relative to the positive charges of the conductor emitting photons in this process.

Absorption/emission from rapid acceleration/deceleration sounds a lot like Bremsstrahlung (Braking radiation).
It would explain why 'manipulation of electrons' is such a common theme in many purported devices, and also why many inventors end up having health problems (accidental X-ray/UV ray/? emissions)
It also explains the need for impulses/disruptive discharges (rapid acceleration/deceleration component) as well as high-Q resonance (efficient recycling+extraction of .energy). ;)


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Re: Concepts and principles of OU devices. « Reply #24 on: 2023-01-11, 00:55:53 »
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Absorption/emission from rapid acceleration/deceleration sounds a lot like Bremsstrahlung (Braking radiation).
There are a whole lot of effects known and recognized in physics which are relaying on the interaction of photons when the kinetic energy of electrons changes, including methods like X-ray spectroscopy and spectrometries of various types. What called my attention is  that apparently in textbooks nothing can be found about the effects produced by accelerating or decelerating electrons in electric conductors, transmission lines , inductors and capacitors. It would certainly be worth to investigate with modern equipment if the measured results are consistent with those observed in cathode ray collisions.   
   
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