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OverUnity Research > Benches > Vidura (Moderator: Vidura) > BTG Research (please only posts related to practical work)
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Author Topic: BTG Research (please only posts related to practical work)  (Read 7177 times)
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #25 on: 2022-12-26, 15:29:40 »
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These effects look conventional to me. Where is the schematic, and how are the probes connected?


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Re: BTG Research « Reply #26 on: 2022-12-27, 09:30:02 »

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Vidura,

thanks for the videos.

Yes, a simple diagram would be good to have, so everybody knows how the coils work together and where the probes are.

Is the scope grounded?
I seem the kacher runs at 1Mhz.

I am not sure where the 90° shift comes from, I wonder if the fact that one probe is floating and the other is not, removes their phase relation?

For the asymmetry of the signal, it looks like the negative halfwave is clamped somehow.

Could the long time it takes to reach max amplitude have something to do with the bulb filament heating up and increase its resistance?
I notice this halogen lamp (230V / 150W?) is not visibly on (yet), so it will change from its cold state to slightly warmer.
I think i have seen something similar in my ZPM experiments, but i do not remember what i was using for load etc.

Thanks,   Itsu
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #27 on: 2022-12-27, 11:47:40 »
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Vidura,
thank you for your excellent and honest research, I really like your attitude and explanation style. The device under investigation is surrounded by myth, information overload, distractions, the net is polluted with claims and opinions about it. A roll up and investigation from the beginning like you do is a very good act.

But let me ask a question, even if it sounds stupid: What is the specific role of the Kacher Coil in all this Kapanadze devices ? Even after years of reading / experimenting / thinking I cannot get the picture. For me the kacher coil is nothing more than a special Tesla Coil / Transformer.

The question I ask is especially important for me when looking at the before mentioned Video link, you posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZsidu9BYjg ( Time mark: 12:24 , where the highest COP is claimed by OldScientist). It is almost magic what is presented in this video. The draw on the input side is 0.1 micro (!) Ampere with 1,69 V. Output is 1.84 V with 3.35 milliamps.  :-X . OldScientist is even claiming that he can at this stage disturb the input side and even shunt it to ground without even affecting Power on the output side. A remarkable experiment I was not aware of!


When the Kapanadze devices is essentially the setup in the video, then where is need for the Kacher coil?

Again, thank you and also thanks for the video links.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #28 on: 2022-12-27, 18:44:40 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2022-12-27, 09:30:02

Vidura,

thanks for the videos.

Yes, a simple diagram would be good to have, so everybody knows how the coils work together and where the probes are.

Is the scope grounded?
I seem the kacher runs at 1Mhz.

I am not sure where the 90° shift comes from, I wonder if the fact that one probe is floating and the other is not, removes their phase relation?

For the asymmetry of the signal, it looks like the negative halfwave is clamped somehow.

Could the long time it takes to reach max amplitude have something to do with the bulb filament heating up and increase its resistance?
I notice this halogen lamp (230V / 150W?) is not visibly on (yet), so it will change from its cold state to slightly warmer.
I think i have seen something similar in my ZPM experiments, but i do not remember what i was using for load etc.

Thanks,   Itsu

Thanks for the feedback, below attached a diagram of the test setup and probes. the scope is not grounded, it comes from factory with a two wire plug and usually I do not add a separate ground wire. But yes it connects to the device ground wire when the clip is attached. regarding the filament lamp you are right, this could be the reason for the slow increase of the amplitude, I will check with another type of load.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #29 on: 2022-12-27, 18:55:58 »
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Quote from: Frederik2k1 on 2022-12-27, 11:47:40


But let me ask a question, even if it sounds stupid: What is the specific role of the Kacher Coil in all this Kapanadze devices ? Even after years of reading / experimenting / thinking I cannot get the picture. For me the kacher coil is nothing more than a special Tesla Coil / Transformer.



When the Kapanadze devices is essentially the setup in the video, then where is need for the Kacher coil?

Again, thank you and also thanks for the video links.

The kacher-brovin is basically a solid state Tesla resonator. Its purpose is to produce a scalar(electric) wave with high potential. Soon I will present more details of the hypothesis which I am trying to proof or discard with this research. regarding the experiment of the old scientist, I dont think that it repersents the entire concept of the "BTG" devices, and personally I will not conform with measurements, as I saw too many odd things related to the equipments. The only valid proof IMO is that the device can be looped.
Regards Vidura.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #30 on: 2022-12-27, 20:38:57 »

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Quote from: Vidura on 2022-12-27, 18:44:40
Thanks for the feedback, below attached a diagram of the test setup and probes. the scope is not grounded, it comes from factory with a two wire plug and usually I do not add a separate ground wire. But yes it connects to the device ground wire when the clip is attached. regarding the filament lamp you are right, this could be the reason for the slow increase of the amplitude, I will check with another type of load.

Vidura,

thanks for the nice drawing, very good  O0

Concerning the copper tube (pipe), would it not act as an electrical short circuit and causes a very large azimuthal induced current in the copper tube that opposes any change in the magnetic flux inside. (Lenz's Law)?
Reference: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/copper-pipe-in-solenoid-center.427974/

I have seen copper and aluminum tubes inserted into coils which have a slit along their length to overcome this problem and is also mentioned in the above link.

Itsu
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #31 on: 2022-12-27, 22:20:11 »
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Vidura hi

Are any of these pics i'm posting any thing like the images your expecting to see from the TC ?

Regards Sil
« Last Edit: 2022-12-28, 05:56:17 by AlienGrey »
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #32 on: 2022-12-28, 08:30:40 »
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Quote from: Vidura on 2022-12-26, 13:54:39
Of course. First I want to make clear that whenever possible I adhere at classic physics, which IMO can satisfactory explain over 90% of all observed phenomena. But not all. On the observations of the mentioned effects I will remark the following :
1. The phase shift between the two scope traces. If we consider the effect as produced by Coulomb forces, the influence on the unconnected scope probe should be bthe same as exerted on the reception coil. But there is clearly a difference of 90° compared wit the bifilare cancelling Coil.
...

Quote from: Vidura on 2022-12-27, 18:44:40
Thanks for the feedback, below attached a diagram of the test setup and probes. the scope is not grounded...

After telling us that the phase difference between the two traces would be a sign of anomaly, you write in the diagram that probe 2 is not connected.

So we still don't know what you are talking about or what you are measuring.

Could you provide something clear?



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Re: BTG Research « Reply #33 on: 2022-12-28, 12:32:14 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2022-12-27, 20:38:57

Concerning the copper tube (pipe), would it not act as an electrical short circuit and causes a very large azimuthal induced current in the copper tube
Without any doubt. ;) pipe ought to be cut.
That is why for many years everyone repeats, copies the same design.
The design that came from Ruslan and Akula.
You can use other microcircuits and transistors, but the essence remains the same.
"grenade" is the same for everyone.
I always come up with something new, or I will roll the "grenade" into a ring.
Or I will modulate the high-voltage (hot) output of the "kacher" with an electronic lamp.
Semiconductor devices are not suitable here.
And for a lamp, ten kilovolts is not a problem.
Although, just like you, nothing interesting happens. :(
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #34 on: 2022-12-28, 13:56:57 »
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Regarding the copper tube I do not agree. Yes there is an induced current for sure, but a short circuited "secondary" is not a load, it just reflects the power  back to the primary reducing it's impedance, but in the case of a Resonator it only increase the reactive power of the system, ant thus also the electric field on the hot end becomes stronger. I will answer the other questions later , now I am busy. Thanks.Vidura.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #35 on: 2022-12-29, 10:09:28 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2022-12-27, 09:30:02



Could the long time it takes to reach max amplitude have something to do with the bulb filament heating up and increase its resistance?
I notice this halogen lamp (230V / 150W?) is not visibly on (yet), so it will change from its cold state to slightly warmer.


Itsu, You where right, the delay was due to the filament lamp, thanks for pointing this out. I should have realized it.

Quote
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2022-12-27, 22:20:11
Vidura hi

Are any of these pics i'm posting any thing like the images your expecting to see from the TC ?

Regards Sil
Sil, I know that your idea is that unipolar impulses are necessary. In the hypothesis that I try to test dampened waves are used mostly. In the case of Kapanadzes spark devices they would look like in the first diagram, also the nano pulser would give a similar output, due to the coax wire with shorted endpoint, which is a high Q resonator. the solid-state versions with Kacher or similar drivers should produce the trace like in the scope shot.
I believe that it could work also with unipolar pulses, provided that the rise-falltime is fast enough and the potential sufficient.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #36 on: 2022-12-29, 10:26:07 »
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Quote from: F6FLT on 2022-12-28, 08:30:40
After telling us that the phase difference between the two traces would be a sign of anomaly, you write in the diagram that probe 2 is not connected.

So we still don't know what you are talking about or what you are measuring.

Could you provide something clear?
Hi F6FLT,
In general terms I want to learn about the physical principles involved in this devices, in order to make them replicable. Most of the tests until the moment are proposed to collect more information about the transfer and antenna coupling between the different components and coils. On which parameters they are depending, and are there other principles involved beside capacitive coupling. If you have any suggestions for tests, which could shed more light on this, it will be appreciated.  Regarding the phase-shift I found that it also depends on the load impedance, with a low impedance the effect disappears.
Regards Vidura.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #37 on: 2022-12-29, 10:29:58 »
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Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2022-12-28, 12:32:14
Without any doubt. ;) pipe ought to be cut.
That is why for many years everyone repeats, copies the same design.
The design that came from Ruslan and Akula.
You can use other microcircuits and transistors, but the essence remains the same.
"grenade" is the same for everyone.
I always come up with something new, or I will roll the "grenade" into a ring.
Or I will modulate the high-voltage (hot) output of the "kacher" with an electronic lamp.
Semiconductor devices are not suitable here.
And for a lamp, ten kilovolts is not a problem.
Although, just like you, nothing interesting happens. :(
That is fine Chief, I'm lookink foreward to see your Ideas in experimental form O0
Regards Vidura
   
img  NickZ
Re: BTG Research « Reply #38 on: 2022-12-31, 15:14:42 »
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Quote from: Vidura on 2022-12-27, 18:55:58
The kacher-brovin is basically a solid state Tesla resonator. Its purpose is to produce a scalar(electric) wave with high potential. Soon I will present more details of the hypothesis which I am trying to proof or discard with this research. regarding the experiment of the old scientist, I dont think that it repersents the entire concept of the "BTG" devices, and personally I will not conform with measurements, as I saw too many odd things related to the equipments. The only valid proof IMO is that the device can be looped.
Regards Vidura.



  Vidura-
   You may not know me, yet. But, I am one of the few members with a fully built Ruslan- Stalker replication.
It is the simple kacher version, that Ruslan (or rather Oleg, his circuit builder) came up with. Mine is also tuned to around 1MHz, and can produce a one centimeter streamer at 24v inputs, or less. I also have a fully built induction circuit, using a 4 inch yoke core, grenade coils, as well as a rectified feed back circuit.
 
    It is possible to use both scope probes on the induction circuit, so long as the Kacher is not on, at the same time. Otherwise, the kacher's HV will be grounded, and killed. And the device won't self run.
   I will also up load some videos that I had made a few years ago showing the interaction between the grenade and the HV Kacher circuits, as well as some tuning tips, provided to me by T-1000.
   I had also worked along with itsu, on this type of project previously, a few years ago. But,  we did not get the needed sync, at that time.
   For now, if you are interested, you can view my videos on YouTube, under my name  Nick Zec
   Many of the tests that you are going through have already been tried and tested already, yet, not one of us has produced a self runner, as yet.
   My recommendation to any one, is to follow the Stalker videos on the subject at YT, as he has the best and clearest diagrams, and videos. Yet, he will not show the device self running, for obvious reasons. Nor would I.

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2022-12-31, 16:37:25 by NickZ »
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #39 on: 2022-12-31, 17:51:28 »
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Thank you for the post, Nick. I will watch the videos. Of course I already guessed that I am not the first person trying to find the clue of this device  ;)  but generally there are only a few who put the efforts to build and do practice of researching. All those who succeeded until the moment have achieved it with work on the bench, without any doubt. Also they knew how to setup the correct parameters. With respect to theory, IMO none has found yet the actual physical principle how the extra energy is obtained. Therefore the difficulty to replicate. For this reason I try with a different approach, although in the Layout and the  tests done to the moment this would not be noted. So I will publish another topic in parallel, In which I will try the best to make the followed hypothesis clear and understandable. So others, specially if the hardware is already there, might consider to re-engage the research with another point of view.
Regards Vidura.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #40 on: 2023-01-01, 18:06:40 »
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   Vidura.
   Yes, the IMO. Well it has been discussed by the various forums till the cows come home. But, what has not been done is to show working proof thereof. That is the tricky part. And not easy to do.
   Allow me to recap a few things about this device, as I have spent many many hours days months and even some years behind the wheel, on this. And, I am still at it.
   First, as I understand it, the Kacher is not meant to add anything to the system, it is meant to only interfere, and stop the induction circuit pulse, at a certain tuned frequency. Not add to it. That is the part that Tesla came up with, as you may know. And that is where most guys fail, at obtaining the right sync. So, there lies the part of the trick to tuning, and understanding what we are trying to do. As that only happens at a very tiny bandwidth,  so  it can take much time to master that sync.
  The red WIMA capacitors of 0.47uf, are used on the induction circuit to enable tuning to the right frequency, and are indispensible, as they are rated at 2000v, and most others caps are not. They are also used at the grenade coil output, and can get real hot, at times, and can even crack. I have also done over night test runs, to see what blows, or overheats, and why.
  So, just a few ideas about all this. From hands on tests, and not just guessing, or repeating what some one may have had said.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #41 on: 2023-01-05, 01:21:30 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-01-01, 18:06:40
   Vidura.
   Yes, the IMO. Well it has been discussed by the various forums till the cows come home. But, what has not been done is to show working proof thereof. That is the tricky part. And not easy to do.
   Allow me to recap a few things about this device, as I have spent many many hours days months and even some years behind the wheel, on this. And, I am still at it.
   First, as I understand it, the Kacher is not meant to add anything to the system, it is meant to only interfere, and stop the induction circuit pulse, at a certain tuned frequency. Not add to it. That is the part that Tesla came up with, as you may know. And that is where most guys fail, at obtaining the right sync. So, there lies the part of the trick to tuning, and understanding what we are trying to do. As that only happens at a very tiny bandwidth,  so  it can take much time to master that sync.
  The red WIMA capacitors of 0.47uf, are used on the induction circuit to enable tuning to the right frequency, and are indispensible, as they are rated at 2000v, and most others caps are not. They are also used at the grenade coil output, and can get real hot, at times, and can even crack. I have also done over night test runs, to see what blows, or overheats, and why.
  So, just a few ideas about all this. From hands on tests, and not just guessing, or repeating what some one may have had said.
Hi Nick, I was watching the YT videos, nice built. Perhaps in the first video you had something important, maybe by chance. The fluctuations on the output might be a sign that you where close to the right parameters,at least partially. If you have read the theory thread, you will understand that I am trying to test a different hypothesis of the underlying principles. Experiments will reveal what this is about.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #42 on: 2023-01-05, 01:28:09 »
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The last Days I made some more tests, with different load attached and testing some more effects of tuning with the insertion of the copper tube. And today after modifying the antenna and changing the polarity of the Kacher primary I could see finally the response of the HV pulses in the oscillations of the main resonator. below a video of the experiments:
https://youtu.be/CPzJdqL_dF8
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #43 on: 2023-01-05, 14:08:18 »
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   Vidura-
   I have read your ideas on the other thread, here. But, I do not see any factual working relation to how these devices are supposed to self run. More like guesses.
   So, I will continue to wait for your tests to conclude, so we can possible go in the right direction. As you will find that you will have little to no interaction between your 12v Kacher, and the grenade output. And much less when you connect up a feed back path.
   You will also find that your 1/4 point of Kacher signal on the scope will also not yield the result that you expect. As you really have no proper tuned relation in the sync of the frequencies, between your Kacher signal frequency and the grenade running frequency. Since they have not been tuned to each other, nor by themselves, first. Not to mention, the need for a thick tuned Earth ground line going to a copper rod stuck well into the ground, to see any actual OU effects.
.
   I am not trying to be negative, I am trying to help you get there...As you will soon see what I mean. And what I mention will be more obvious to you.
    Both itsu and I have spent much time and money to get to where we got, even if that did not obtain the needed results.
 We did see what does NOT work...  yet there is nothing that happens in this case by chance. It takes much effort to see any positive results, at all.
   You can also view any of the itsu videos, as well as Geofusion videos on YouTube. Itsu goes by his name itsusable, on YT.

   Best of luck...

   NickZ
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #44 on: 2023-01-05, 18:15:15 »
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Some might have noted that I am not going the usual way of copying  someone's else work or reverse engineering a device. Of course I look at the different approaches, what do they have in common and the most important thing , what are the involved physical principles. Therefore I do the research based on the hypothesis presented in the theoretical topic, at least until (partial)proof or discard. The most crucial effect in context with the hypothesis is without doubt the process of excitation or ionisation of nearby conductors by the scalar waves of potential. How the phaseshift can be achieved, what is the role of the negative charges and their displacement in the process, and in which coordinates the nodes and antinodes of each parameter should be established. I am not expecting to assemble something , and by having good luck it will work. But with a solid base of physics and continued efforts I am convinced that it can be achieved.
Regards Vidura
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #45 on: 2023-01-05, 18:48:48 »

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Quote from: Vidura on 2023-01-05, 18:15:15
Some might have noted that I am not going the usual way of copying  someone's else work or reverse engineering a device. Of course I look at the different approaches, what do they have in common and the most important thing , what are the involved physical principles. Therefore I do the research based on the hypothesis presented in the theoretical topic, at least until (partial)proof or discard. The most crucial effect in context with the hypothesis is without doubt the process of excitation or ionisation of nearby conductors by the scalar waves of potential. How the phaseshift can be achieved, what is the role of the negative charges and their displacement in the process, and in which coordinates the nodes and antinodes of each parameter should be established. I am not expecting to assemble something , and by having good luck it will work. But with a solid base of physics and continued efforts I am convinced that it can be achieved.
Regards Vidura

Copy someone else's work, that actually works, is valuable for learning and can lead to new discoveries by building upon that work.

Why is "the process of excitation or ionisation of nearby conductors by the scalar waves of potential" the most crucial effect?  What causes this effect?
What is the "phaseshift" supposed to do?
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #46 on: 2023-01-05, 22:29:30 »
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Quote from: Vidura on 2023-01-05, 18:15:15
Some might have noted that I am not going the usual way of copying  someone's else work or reverse engineering a device. Of course I look at the different approaches, what do they have in common and the most important thing , what are the involved physical principles. Therefore I do the research based on the hypothesis presented in the theoretical topic, at least until (partial)proof or discard. The most crucial effect in context with the hypothesis is without doubt the process of excitation or ionisation of nearby conductors by the scalar waves of potential. How the phaseshift can be achieved, what is the role of the negative charges and their displacement in the process, and in which coordinates the nodes and antinodes of each parameter should be established. I am not expecting to assemble something , and by having good luck it will work. But with a solid base of physics and continued efforts I am convinced that it can be achieved.
Regards Vidura

Ok - that's one approach:  " I am not expecting to assemble something , and by having good luck it will work. But with a solid base of physics and continued efforts I am convinced that it can be achieved.
Regards Vidura"

   Not having read the entire thread, let me ask if this is the general idea;
1 - Have a parallel LC circuit whose resonant frequency one measures (RF1).  This becomes the receiver - and multiple receivers are doable.  The load is in parallel with the LC circuit, could be a simple resistor, set up so one can measure Pout.

2 --  Now set up a high-efficiency "sender/transmitter" which is tunable to that frequency RF1.   Set up to measure the input power, Pin.

3 -  The energy is transmitted wirelessly. 

4-  One then measures Pout and Pin, and calculates Pout/Pin = COP. 

IS THAT THE GENERAL IDEA of this thread?

Note that the above is an outline for the "PADWIT" principle that I have described previously (starting years ago) -- lots of fun!!   

I think several are and have been working along these lines... 
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #47 on: 2023-01-07, 00:45:03 »
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Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2023-01-05, 22:29:30
Ok - that's one approach:  " I am not expecting to assemble something , and by having good luck it will work. But with a solid base of physics and continued efforts I am convinced that it can be achieved.
Regards Vidura"

   Not having read the entire thread, let me ask if this is the general idea;
1 - Have a parallel LC circuit whose resonant frequency one measures (RF1).  This becomes the receiver - and multiple receivers are doable.  The load is in parallel with the LC circuit, could be a simple resistor, set up so one can measure Pout.

2 --  Now set up a high-efficiency "sender/transmitter" which is tunable to that frequency RF1.   Set up to measure the input power, Pin.

3 -  The energy is transmitted wirelessly. 

4-  One then measures Pout and Pin, and calculates Pout/Pin = COP. 

IS THAT THE GENERAL IDEA of this thread?

Note that the above is an outline for the "PADWIT" principle that I have described previously (starting years ago) -- lots of fun!!   

I think several are and have been working along these lines...
No this is not the idea, it is not about radio transmission. You can find more information in the theoretical topic.
Regards.
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #48 on: 2023-01-08, 01:07:46 »
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Today I took some time to assemble a new transmitter "antenna" . The idea was to minimize the influence of capacitive coupling. For this I used a design which is sometimes implemented in HF ozonizers. A grid or mesh of very thin wire is used as electrode, the small surface area reduces the capacitance considerably. Below the video of the test.
https://youtu.be/ALI1f5Kg2wA
   
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Re: BTG Research « Reply #49 on: 2023-01-08, 10:35:53 »

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Vidura,


nice demo, so there is now (almost) no capacitive coupling between your mesh antenna and the main resonator (Grenade).

You mention:  "the small surface area reduces the capacitance considerably" by which i understand that the "old" antenna did had considerable capacitive coupling, did you measure that capacitance before?  What was it?

 
Anyway,  so what is causing the energy transfer we saw before from antenna to main resonator (Grenade)?  Inductance?


Itsu
   
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