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Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « on: 2022-11-02, 02:38:08 »

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Hi everyone - This is my first post here.

I actually joined the site to get some opinions on this particular design -

I am copying the exact instructions and details laid out in the YouTube video by the late Patrick J Kelly or Edward Williams - "A Tiny Generator"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZEoL5zvFU

I now have most of the components and am carefully installing them as they arrive. I would appreciate you watch the entire video before participating in discussion as it is not your average Bedini (if such a thing exists) and does not seem to appear anywhere else I have searched for it (one off?)

I have several batches of questions to ask / points to discuss. Having this site as a tool to communicate with other "free energy freaks" like myself is great - No one by me seems interested in even discussing the various working OU designs that have been deployed throughout even our known history.

I have yet to buy the 7 batteries as I am trying to be thrifty and catch a good deal, especially seeing as partly/totally sulphated units will work better anyway.

Is it important they're 7ah as the video states? or will 2.1/5ah etc work OK? (plan is to draw a small continual load from them to a bigger pre-existing battery through caps then a solar charge controller with big LFE. I don't want to ram 600v spikes into my nice big LFE battery - something tells me Betty won't like that.

Amongst many other questions including but not limited to - Should I use this 2.5mm solid core throughout or is stranded 1mm dia. fine? Connector blocks ok or induce unwanted hysteresis? if used then is bigger better? (lower ohms)

If built correctly, will this run continually and power a load? How many watts would you guess it puts out? the video doesn't overtly say, although I suppose it's not electricity in the traditional sense that's being produced.

Many thanks in advance for any responses. RR
« Last Edit: 2022-11-05, 00:11:56 by Renaissance Rising »
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #1 on: 2022-11-02, 10:43:36 »
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Hi Renaissance Rising

All these stories that are floating around the net, of machines that self-power and provide energy, have never been proven to work by credible experimenters who have tried to reproduce them.

Patrick Kelly is one of the many people who has talked a lot about free energy without ever having produced a single operational device that can be reproduced by engineers and professionals in general. Those who talk the most about the "secrets" of free energy never produce any and generate urban legends.  Kelly made compilations of anything, usually conventional things that produce effects but no free energy, but which he will interpret in a way that produces entertainment and excites the neophytes.

Some people here don't hesitate to follow all these free energy gurus like Kelly but they never explain or admit why they always fail to reproduce any FE device, except by conspiracy theories or because information would be missing in the description. This is what happens when you replace your critical thinking with your faith.

To be honest, I think you're wasting your time and money on Kelly's stories, like everyone else who tried before you. Think of this opinion not as negative, but as positive to avoid screwing up.
May I offer some advice?
This forum is dedicated to doing research to build devices that provide free or nearly free energy. We just had long discussions about the method. Replicating everything on the internet is pointless, it's not even research. My opinion is that you should only rely on your own ideas and the new ideas (not the old ones, if they worked we would already have free energy) of those you trust because they are competent and don't try to show off online. So you have to use and develop your own physical science skills either to do your own research or to be able to identify who you can rely on.


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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #2 on: 2022-11-02, 13:17:29 »

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If you're building to explore the dynamics and better understand the interactions going on, I think that's definitely worth it. :)
You get a feel for motor dynamics, experience winding coils, and probably learn quite a bit about gate driving and building a pulse motor.  A 'skill development project'. O0

If you're expecting it to produce more usable energy than it consumes right out of the gate, you're probably not going to get it by accident.  And even if you did, imagine the horror and stress of not being able to replicate it?  Or if it stopped working one day and you didn't know why or how to fix it?? :o

https://www.bitchute.com/video/6DsqNeO2wrxD/


I look forward to seeing your work, it's always good to have more builders ;)


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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #3 on: 2022-11-02, 13:48:52 »
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Sir
I would imagine the builders from open source forums could fill box cars or freighters with attempts in this direction!
 had heard of a fellow from Africa that boasted of a gain .. but was never specific on how ?

I will ask around to see if more info is out there !

A truly open source fellow would make sure his contributions were well understood and out to the world!

Respectfully
Chet K
Ps I see you were quick to write in chat room the “H” word or associate persons in your introduction, I can’t remember ever reading that here ..
This is an open source venue dedicated to sharing FE technology ( an ongoing hunt
No stone left unturned!
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #4 on: 2022-11-02, 16:17:54 »
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  Welcome, RR.
You wrote:  "I just picked a design that I thought had some merit and I thought would be within my skills/knowledge to execute effectively. There are several others I want to try and will be attempting soon - Big joule thief - Tesla Air gap circuit with spark gap - Isotopic transmutation (Patented-shelved likely) - several others there too- I am also planning to attempt a DIY Aeromine system soon "

   Interesting pathways - I hope you succeed!   My gold-and-silver prize still stands - going (I hope) to the FIRST cop>1 and Pout>1Watt device that I can replicate (or purchase) and verify for myself.   See attached.  (Or $2000 cash prize in lieu of the gold and silver, if the inventor prefers.)

     I suspect others may join/add to this, to encourage the research.  I recognize that a time-limited non-disclosure agreement, NDA, might be a good idea to protect the inventor, but I hope the idea would soon be released to benefit humanity...  Its going to be a COLD winter ahead for many...   
      Hurray for green-energy research!

-- Steve
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #5 on: 2022-11-02, 16:25:09 »
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Quote from: Renaissance Rising on 2022-11-02, 15:54:41
F6FLT: You do make some solid points however - without being corny - I'm not your average builder - I will be going above and beyond to get there with this.
...

I am not questioning your skills. I am questioning, and a serious question, about the device you are trying to reproduce.
I just made a warning about the futility of a project to duplicate a Kelly setup, based on the fact that many have tried, including competent people, and all have failed while duplication requires far less skill than inventing a real innovative machine.
Of course if you still want to go for it, go for it. But it's not enough to be more competent than everyone else who tried before you and failed, when it's the project that's not viable.



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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #6 on: 2022-11-02, 16:56:29 »
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Would be good to have an image of schematic for passers by to view and a suggestion to theory ( from claimant)
The simpler the better ( trying to replicate a gain mechanism.. instead of the whole device ?

Plenty of opinions here and experience !
Interest to !
As of this moment I am unaware of any successful replications shared open source ( or even heard of any that run
 With gain in open source community !
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #7 on: 2022-11-03, 00:03:53 »
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A good while ago I built a similar device that used an scr triggered by a neon . Very low component count and simple in operation , but much like the circuit here.

I tweaked it and tweaked it for best efficiency by moving the magnets and changing trigger points until I had it "just right" and to my surprise the battery voltage started climbing steadily .  "Its all true" ,I thought . But trying elaborate switching of batteries even manually switching just to prove the point .No useful energy was extracted and all my batteries were eventually flat .

What I learned was that pulsing batteries especially older ones gave them a cleaning effect which raised the measured voltage . I also learned that there are many hopeful people out there ,some who even know it cant work ,yet allow the believer to find out for themselves and that is the question here . Why would somebody encourage this or discourage this ?

Its those who seek to profit from peoples ignorance that get me ...but then any education is expensive . What ever we are taught. Any way Good luck with this and they are fun to set up play with . There are many good lessons on many levels .
A monatised video is always the first red flag .
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #8 on: 2022-11-03, 00:52:31 »
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Perhaps drop a note to member Aking21 I believe he helped with Patrick’s sight and also
Experimented with these type setups , also good with
Finding more info !

He popped in the other day!
Might be very helpful .
Still asking around about that fellow I heard about in South Africa
I believe he posted at OU. Com some years back .

Asking over there too
Respectfully
Chet K
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #9 on: 2022-11-03, 13:46:46 »
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #10 on: 2022-12-19, 14:14:27 »
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Quote from: Renaissance Rising on 2022-11-02, 02:38:08
...
I am copying the exact instructions and details laid out in the YouTube video by the late Patrick J Kelly or Edward Williams - "A Tiny Generator"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZEoL5zvFU
...

I have always been very surprised at the need for a battery for a "free energy" device. If you need a buffer for the current, you can use a large capacitor.

If the device provides power, it can be used for something other than charging a battery. From there to say that it is the battery, charged, which makes the device work, there is only one step to take, which I take without any complex.



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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #11 on: 2022-12-19, 15:20:20 »

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Quote from: F6FLT on 2022-12-19, 14:14:27
I have always been very surprised at the need for a battery for a "free energy" device.
Knowing your interest in using the magnetic vector potential for exotic effects I think the opposite polarity ions moving through an electrolyte could offer something interesting if there is such an A field there.  I am not aware that anyone has studied this.  Note that a charged particle Q in an A field has electromagnetic momentum QA and its movement will be affected by any change of momentum hence change in A across the electrolyte.  Thus a battery may be there not as a power source but as a source of moving ions.  Plasma would be a better ion source for exotic effects as the velocities are much greater.

Smudge
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #12 on: 2022-12-20, 00:44:03 »
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Renaissance Rising

As Mark Twain once said,
"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction".

"Of all God's creatures, there is only one that cannot be made slave of the leash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve the man, but it would deteriorate the cat."

I have built many impulse motors like the one in question and it would be a good start towards the Adams motor/generator.

I can show you a few tricks to help you get a good start. My favorite switching combo is the 2N2222a and IRFP460 mosfet in a Darlington configuration as in your circuit. The transistor/mosfet combo doesn't look like much on paper but seem to outperform there specs for some reason.

On switching I learned a few tricks not found the tetbooks. We want very short HV impulses for efficiency but most call for mosfet drivers for fast switching which are problematic. We can easily produce impulses or oscillations down into the nanosecond range by using two switches. First a magnetic sensor and transistor/mosfet switch to close the circuit. Then a second mosfet switch to detect the gate voltage on the first mosfet opening the circuit. Now the actual switching time is the difference between the first and second mosfet thus it can have any value. Any value independent of one mosfets on/off transition time down to a few nanoseconds. In effect it's a battle, one switch is trying to close as the other is simultaneously trying to open.

Where many go wrong is playing around with low voltage and the input voltage should be near the tolerances of the components. The higher the voltage the lower the resistance losses associated with high currents. High current is for amateurs because it always produces high losses, ie. our coils get hot. We do not want to build a space heater we want to build the most efficient motor we can.

Once we have a super efficient motor we can start building a super efficient generator and start considering a mechanism for gain to drive it over COP>1. However first we want to get as close to COP=1 as we can. We build up to COP=1 then cross the line into a gain scenario.

AC



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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #13 on: 2022-12-20, 17:00:10 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2022-12-19, 15:20:20
Knowing your interest in using the magnetic vector potential for exotic effects I think the opposite polarity ions moving through an electrolyte could offer something interesting if there is such an A field there.  I am not aware that anyone has studied this.  Note that a charged particle Q in an A field has electromagnetic momentum QA and its movement will be affected by any change of momentum hence change in A across the electrolyte.  Thus a battery may be there not as a power source but as a source of moving ions.  Plasma would be a better ion source for exotic effects as the velocities are much greater.

Smudge

This seems an interesting way to go. I have started to make a quantified assessment of what can be expected. I will make a second answer.


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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #14 on: 2022-12-21, 11:39:03 »
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Quote from: Renaissance Rising on 2022-12-20, 19:24:43
F6FLT- I am just following the design - once I have everything exact, I want to try running the circuit via 7w buck converter fed from store directly - eliminating the need for a drive battery, then later try substituting the store batteries themselves with a batt-cap.
...

I can't recommend a better project.  Removing batteries should be the target of everyone who wants to be sure to face OU.   O0


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"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #15 on: 2022-12-21, 13:26:56 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2022-12-19, 15:20:20
Knowing your interest in using the magnetic vector potential for exotic effects I think the opposite polarity ions moving through an electrolyte could offer something interesting if there is such an A field there.  I am not aware that anyone has studied this.  Note that a charged particle Q in an A field has electromagnetic momentum QA and its movement will be affected by any change of momentum hence change in A across the electrolyte.  Thus a battery may be there not as a power source but as a source of moving ions.  Plasma would be a better ion source for exotic effects as the velocities are much greater.

Smudge
I replied eslewhere because off topic here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4408.0


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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #16 on: 2023-01-04, 13:45:35 »
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Quote from: Renaissance Rising on 2022-12-26, 18:33:52
What would you suggest in their stead? (assuming the rest of the circuit stays the same) Battery capacitors ? or would regular electrolytic / ceramic be ok, and if so which? or should I use a combination of both / all?? Or would something else entirely work better and capture the radiant output more effectively? (barring plasma, which I can't readily produce) - I'm open to suggestions and can source parts as needed.

In the devices supposed to produce OU, there is usually a cycle that is repeated, for example a signal at frequency F.

Each cycle being identical, if OU is globally generated, it is because it is generated a little at each cycle.

It is therefore sufficient for the energy buffer to hold a significant level during a period of the signal. If, for example, the system has a cycle of 50 Hz, the buffer must be maintained for 20 ms. If it is 1 MHz, holding it for 1µs is sufficient.
It is therefore understood that a capacitor is largely sufficient for an electrical OU device, for example 470 nF for 1 MHz, a few thousand µF for 50 Hz, to be specified according to the current required. If a battery is needed, we can be sure that the device is wrong.





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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #17 on: 2023-01-08, 00:14:08 »
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RR

I reproduced several variations of the South African designs from Patrick Kelly book. They seemed pretty straightforward. I even corresponded a bit with Mr Kelly before he passed away and he was very encouraging. Anyhow, I was never able to get the circuits/to go over 100% efficiency. I’ll be curious to see if you have success with them. If you get the switching to work efficiently you’ll get up close to 90% power recovery.  If the rotor spins fast enough you’ll get induction charging via the drive coil but not enough to surpass 100%. My conclusion was they don’t work as advertised else others would be able to successfully replicate. Still they are a good tool to learn about dc motors and circuit design.
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #18 on: 2023-01-08, 17:35:06 »

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I too built my own version of a “ window “ motor/generator nearly 15 years ago. Spurred on by an alleged self runner that was presented at OU. Com at that time.

Needless to say it ran continuously for 3 months before I gave up with it. The single sealed 7 AH LAB’s voltage dropped to 8.2 VDC and then remained there. I had achieved a “ unity “ situation ( IMO ) but despite many tinkering’s couldn’t get any extra from the DUT.

My control system was purely mechanical ( commutator ) with diodes to capture the BEMF.

Cheers Graham.


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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #19 on: 2023-01-09, 19:56:28 »
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I only corresponded maybe 3 or 4 times over email, sent photos back and forth, etc.  He was very kind and encouraging and sent over a few documents from his book - actually some where chapters not in the book that I can send you if you like.  Nonetheless, the content was similar to the chapter on Tiny Generator and the South African generator.  He was convinced the guy in SA had a 150watt OU device and that I should copy it to the letter of the law.  He noted that others had tried replications and failed but he concluded they didn't copy it 100% but rather made their own variations.  (of which to be fair I did as well - made the rotor a little larger, used different transistors, etc.) 

He stated that pulsing coils and collecting the spikes was a way of drawing power from the local environment and moreover that electrical flow was not necessarily electrons from the power company but rather the power company created a signal that drew the power in from the surrounding environment.  So you can see he had some unconventional ideas on how electricity worked.  Nonetheless he seemed to really believe in what he published.  I don't think he intentionally was misleading people but rather didn't build the designs he published and so had no way of validating they worked.


Quote from: Renaissance Rising on 2023-01-08, 17:15:10
Thankyou for the info - Good to know that others have tried, at least.
I now realize that solid state is where it's at with the electrical designs - otherwise it's just taming entropy so to speak.

If I may ask - what was Edward like ? Would've been great to have met / spoke to him myself before his passing.
Very interesting character.

The Tiny Generator certainly has been a good learning experience for me as something of a novice to all this, even if it doesn't deliver the "advertised" results. I never expected anything spectacular despite the claims, but the fact that it's producing such a high voltage with so little input is useful in itself for other upcoming experiments / projects I have in mind.

As F6FLT has mentioned, I believe this could still be a good model to play around with different capacitor types / values instead of the supposed VRLA's.

I don't have much faith in these old batteries, I think they let the design down and put people off it (most expensive part) wasting some 50% of what they receive, seems far less than ideal, even if the "COP is in the batteries" as Bedini said, and negative charging is a different process altogether, it's a clumsy and drawn out, extensive PITA process - I want to keep it as simple as possible really, for various reasons. I didn't want to stray from the original design, having copied it precisely and had custom parts made etc, but I now see that it's needed given this reply.

Would much rather attempt mechanical / rotary amplification off the rotor body, or store & use the radiant output as heat through a timed capacitor discharge circuit, or something else more direct than a battery. Any ideas are welcome as I am now at the stage of the design where I have tried what's suggested (Almost identical parts set, coil values etc) and am happy to plug ideas.

I will upload pics of the model soon, and what I have tried so far and the results to the new thread I started on this topic.
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #20 on: 2023-03-05, 00:44:07 »

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Overview of build
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #21 on: 2023-03-05, 00:46:20 »

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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #22 on: 2023-03-05, 01:02:32 »

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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #23 on: 2023-03-05, 01:04:18 »

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Effects of Radiant output visualized  O0
   
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Re: Patrick Kelly "A Tiny Generator" « Reply #24 on: 2023-03-05, 01:17:43 »

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