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Author Topic: Energy from electron spin  (Read 17841 times)

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My PowerPoint presentation mentioned at the start of this thread contained errors.  In the formula I did not include the relative permeability of the Fe.  Also the sample calculation was incorrect, I had a senior moment when I did the spreadsheet :-[  The file below is the revised presentation where I have used the relative permeability of pure iron as 180,000, FEMM tells me that figure.  So the Surface Magneto-electric Effect should be detectable with a set up that is within the grasp of experimenters here.

Smudge
   
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@F6,
With the spin as a current loop connected to a current generator any change of flux through that loop will induce a voltage into the loop thus causing the generator to deliver power. ...

If neither the magnetic moment of the electron nor the current changes, where would be the evidence of an "induced voltage"?

Let Φ=Φi+Φe where Φi is the intrinsic internal flux of the spin, the one that gives rise to the magnetic moment, Φe the external flux through the spin, and Φ the resulting flux through the spin. If no external flux, Φ = Φi.

From this, two assumptions of the effect of an external flux:
1) It is the intrinsic internal spin flux that remains constant, so dΦi/dt=0 and dΦ/dt = dΦe/dt: the flux variation through the spin is simply that of the external flux.

2) The flux Φ through the spin is constant, then it is that the intrinsic internal flux adjusts according to the external flux: Φi = Φ-Φe and dΦi/dt = -dΦe/dt

In hypothesis 1, the presence of the spin has no effect on the external flux variation. This is what we observe: that the coil with variable current surrounds a magnet, or the same material not previously magnetised, has no effect on the current. This is equivalent to saying that the spin is not equivalent to a conductive loop, you cannot induce a current in it, there is no reaction, it is transparent, only the permeability plays a role.

In hypothesis 2, the intrinsic flux of the spin changes to eliminate the external flux that tries to pass through it, and maintain a constant flux through the spin. Opposition to the flux through the spin has no effect on the external macroscopic flux, which then passes between the spins rather than through them. Again the lack of reaction on the external flux is what is observed.

In neither case is there any possibility of energy recovery. So in this context, what exactly are you talking about?
Before talking about exotic theory and the aether, we should define the fluxes, macroscopic and at the spin level, flux variations and currents involved, relative to the spins, and formally specify the relationships between them.

The only indication of extra-energy according to you would come from "2.Bm.Bc" when we superimpose the macroscopic fields of the magnet and the coil. As already mentioned these fields do not have the same topology, especially at the atomic level. There is no reason to think that there would be more volume where the superposition of the fields would be constructive than destructive, and thus as in the interference phenomena, that there would be an energy gain when integrating over the whole volume. And this is all the more doubtful as the surface presented by the spins to the external flux is insignificant compared to the cross-sectional area of the material, due to the minute size of the electrons.


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Here is a spreadsheet for the construction of a special tape wound ring-core that consists of Fe tape and Cu tape separated by a thin plastic tape so that is is both a core and a capacitor.  Sheet 1 is where you input data and get output data.  It assumes the coil is connected in series with the capacitor and calculates the negative resistance expected from the Surface Magneto-electric Effect and also the AC resistance of the coil at the LC resonant frequency.  If the negative value exceeds the AC resistance the COP states "self oscillation", else it gives the ratio RAC/(RAC-RNEG).  As you play around with the numbers the COP goes towards infinity until you reach self oscillation.  Enjoy!

Smudge

P.S.  The ring- core also needs another coil around it carrying DC to magnetize the Fe.   
   

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If neither the magnetic moment of the electron nor the current changes, where would be the evidence of an "induced voltage"?
I modeled the electron as a current loop connected in series with a constant current generator.  The induced voltage in that model is across the current generator.  We don't need evidence for that voltage, we know that is the case for such a current loop.
 

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Let Φ=Φi+Φe where Φi is the intrinsic internal flux of the spin, the one that gives rise to the magnetic moment, Φe the external flux through the spin, and Φ the resulting flux through the spin. If no external flux, Φ = Φi.

From this, two assumptions of the effect of an external flux:
1) It is the intrinsic internal spin flux that remains constant, so dΦi/dt=0 and dΦ/dt = dΦe/dt: the flux variation through the spin is simply that of the external flux.
Yes.

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2) The flux Φ through the spin is constant, then it is that the intrinsic internal flux adjusts according to the external flux: Φi = Φ-Φe and dΦi/dt = -dΦe/dt
That is paramagnetic behaviour, we are dealing with magnets not paramagnets.

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In hypothesis 1, the presence of the spin has no effect on the external flux variation. This is what we observe: that the coil with variable current surrounds a magnet, or the same material not previously magnetised, has no effect on the current.
  What current are you considering here that is not effected?  I am confused. 
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This is equivalent to saying that the spin is not equivalent to a conductive loop, you cannot induce a current in it, there is no reaction, it is transparent, only the permeability plays a role.
More confusion, nowhere have I said we can induce current.

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In hypothesis 2, the intrinsic flux of the spin changes to eliminate the external flux that tries to pass through it, and maintain a constant flux through the spin. Opposition to the flux through the spin has no effect on the external macroscopic flux, which then passes between the spins rather than through them. Again the lack of reaction on the external flux is what is observed.
  Even in the correct hypothesis 1 some of the flux through the spins passes between the spins, they are a long way apart.

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In neither case is there any possibility of energy recovery.
Agreed for the spins in a PM, but this does not mean that spins cannot supply energy.  You clearly believe they can't.
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So in this context, what exactly are you talking about?
Before talking about exotic theory and the aether, we should define the fluxes, macroscopic and at the spin level, flux variations and currents involved, relative to the spins, and formally specify the relationships between them.

The only indication of extra-energy according to you would come from "2.Bm.Bc" when we superimpose the macroscopic fields of the magnet and the coil. As already mentioned these fields do not have the same topology, especially at the atomic level. There is no reason to think that there would be more volume where the superposition of the fields would be constructive than destructive, and thus as in the interference phenomena, that there would be an energy gain when integrating over the whole volume. And this is all the more doubtful as the surface presented by the spins to the external flux is insignificant compared to the cross-sectional area of the material, due to the minute size of the electrons.
You must believe that the additional energy in the field external to the magnet, my "2.Bm.Bc", that does not come from the current source of the coil around the magnet, must therefore come from internal regions of the magnet where the fields reduce in magnitude due to your spatial interference phenomena.  Then the spins do not give up any energy.  But I can simulate an ordered array of tiny current loops in FEMM which shows exactly that spatial interference.  I can simulate a PM.  And when I add a coil around my simulated magnet I get the situation exactly as I have described, the tiny current loops supply extra energy both to the the space external to the magnet and to the space within the magnet.  Methinks your vision of interference phenomena where there is no energy gain when integrating over the whole volume is for the case where the spins are fully spatially random and that is not the case for PM's.

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@F6,
You said
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And this is all the more doubtful as the surface presented by the spins to the external flux is insignificant compared to the cross-sectional area of the material, due to the minute size of the electrons.
The number density of the spins is huge, there are a lot of them, so I don't accept that argument.  And it is not just electron spin, but orbital motion as a spin.  Clearly the external flux intercepted by the spins can have a value determined by the orbit size or the electron size, i.e. some capture area.  You might argue that the granularity of what we consider to be a magnetic field could destroy my argument, but then we are talking about virtual particles that represent the field and we know they react with electrons in various ways.
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I modeled the electron as a current loop connected in series with a constant current generator.  The induced voltage in that model is across the current generator.  We don't need evidence for that voltage, we know that is the case for such a current loop.
 
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Let Φ=Φi+Φe where Φi is the intrinsic internal flux of the spin, the one that gives rise to the magnetic moment, Φe the external flux through the spin, and Φ the resulting flux through the spin. If no external flux, Φ = Φi.

From this, two assumptions of the effect of an external flux:
1) It is the intrinsic internal spin flux that remains constant, so dΦi/dt=0 and dΦ/dt = dΦe/dt: the flux variation through the spin is simply that of the external flux.

 Yes.

So let's keep this assumption since we are in agreement on this point.

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More confusion, nowhere have I said we can induce current.

"With the spin as a current loop connected to a current generator any change of flux through that loop will induce a voltage into the loop thus causing the generator to deliver power." (your reply #23).
Not a current but a "voltage". The problem is that a "voltage", I assume you mean an emf in the spin, is a force on a charge, which will be expressed as a current. But if I understand correctly you assume that the emf is compensated by the generator ("thus causing the generator to deliver power"), which cancels the induced current. Is this correct?

So di/dt=0, the spin current does not change. And we know that dΦ/dt = dΦe/dt, the flux variation through the spin is due to the external field alone. This variation is therefore the same as if the magnet material was not magnetised, since the spin current does not change.

The charge in the spin is rotating at the same constant speed whether the external field is there or not, and there is no need of energy for that (1st Newton law, you need an emf to rotate a current only to fight the losses due to the resistance), so this generator, which is supposed to deliver power, does not.

So where would the energy be expressed? Energy is the work of a force. What force, on what, and with what work?

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But I can simulate an ordered array of tiny current loops in FEMM which shows exactly that spatial interference.  I can simulate a PM.  And when I add a coil around my simulated magnet I get the situation exactly as I have described, the tiny current loops supply extra energy both to the the space external to the magnet and to the space within the magnet...

There is no current variation in the spin. It is a constant current loop, so the static external field is always the same. And dΦ/dt is due to the external field alone, that is our assumption. So I don't see how FEMM could see anything other than the energy density of the static field of the magnet + the energy density of the varying field.

In summary, from what I understand, you make the hypothesis that we would need energy to maintain the spin current constant and thus cancel out the variation in current that we would have due to the emf induced in the spin by the dΦ/dt that passes through it. This extra energy would come from the aether.
But one needs energy to maintain a constant current only in the case where there are losses. A spin has no losses. Spins should be modelled by lossless current loops,


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@F6,
You said The number density of the spins is huge, there are a lot of them, so I don't accept that argument.  And it is not just electron spin, but orbital motion as a spin.  Clearly the external flux intercepted by the spins can have a value determined by the orbit size or the electron size, i.e. some capture area.  You might argue that the granularity of what we consider to be a magnetic field could destroy my argument, but then we are talking about virtual particles that represent the field and we know they react with electrons in various ways.
Smudge

Depending on the electron model, its size ranges from less than 10-22 to 2.817 9 × 10-15 m, the largest value being the classical radius.
Even with the classical radius, it is one millionth of the interatomic distances. If we reason in cross-section, the spin is at best one millionth of a millionth of the area crossed by the flux.
The interception of an external field by the spin is therefore anecdotal, unless a mechanism can be established that would concentrate the lines of the external field there.
Of course there are also orbital motions, but not only are they small compared to the interatomic distances, but I think I remember that in a magnet they contribute less than 10% to the field. And we are talking about spin, not orbital motion.



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@F6,
You said
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"With the spin as a current loop connected to a current generator any change of flux through that loop will induce a voltage into the loop thus causing the generator to deliver power." (your reply #23).
Not a current but a "voltage". The problem is that a "voltage", I assume you mean an emf in the spin, is a force on a charge, which will be expressed as a current.
I use the word voltage in respect of that applied to the current generator.  Of course that is really an electric field applied to the charges in the loop, and that will apply force.  In the case of a spinning spherical charge the electrical field (which is a circular vortex) will apply a torque that attempts to change the spin speed.  In the loop it attempts to change the current.  So it can't be expressed as a current, that is just nonsense.  With the current or spin constant there has to be some other force that keeps the value constant.  And I look upon that as coming from the aether.
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But if I understand correctly you assume that the emf is compensated by the generator ("thus causing the generator to deliver power"), which cancels the induced current. Is this correct?
I would not use the word compensated, in a current generator the load emf determines the power.  (In a voltage generator the load current determines the power, we don't say the current is compensated by the generator).  I don't see the induced induced current being cancelled, the emf can't induce current period.
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tExB=qr
My PowerPoint presentation mentioned at the start of this thread contained errors.  In the formula I did not include the relative permeability of the Fe.  Also the sample calculation was incorrect, I had a senior moment when I did the spreadsheet :-[  The file below is the revised presentation where I have used the relative permeability of pure iron as 180,000, FEMM tells me that figure.  So the Surface Magneto-electric Effect should be detectable with a set up that is within the grasp of experimenters here.

Smudge

By the way:
Throughout your paper you show the electric field of an electron as a circular electric field.
An electron's electric field is negative and directed inward (radial).

You can create a rotating radial electric field, interacting with a static magnetic field (or a gravity field) perpendicular to the rotation direction, and find your elusive "energy from electron spin".

By that way, did Chava ever develop anything useful?
   

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By the way:
Throughout your paper you show the electric field of an electron as a circular electric field.
No I didn't.  I show the electric field from the applied magnetic field as circular.
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An electron's electric field is negative and directed inward (radial).
I know that

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By that way, did Chava ever develop anything useful?
Not that I am aware of.
   
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@F6,
You said I use the word voltage in respect of that applied to the current generator.  Of course that is really an electric field applied to the charges in the loop, and that will apply force.  In the case of a spinning spherical charge the electrical field (which is a circular vortex) will apply a torque that attempts to change the spin speed.  In the loop it attempts to change the current.  So it can't be expressed as a current, that is just nonsense.  With the current or spin constant there has to be some other force that keeps the value constant.  And I look upon that as coming from the aether.I would not use the word compensated, in a current generator the load emf determines the power.  (In a voltage generator the load current determines the power, we don't say the current is compensated by the generator).  I don't see the induced induced current being cancelled, the emf can't induce current period.
Smudge

A zero current is a current where the electrons have zero speed. In physics, this is not nonsense, it is a current: I=0.

These are quite secondary vocabulary issues. Sometimes you have to use non-formal periphrases to make yourself understood, and not everyone has the same.

Wasn't your original point that the "spin generator" cancels out the dΦ/dt related emf effect?
I would have liked to know if this is the main point to understand and the one you are defending, because this is the point I just showed we have no evidence on.



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No I didn't.  I show the electric field from the applied magnetic field as circular.
I know that
Not that I am aware of.

Ah, I see you did say that the circular electric field is from the changing applied magnetic field.  Sorry, I skimmed past that and missed it.

So, is the radial electric field still there?
   

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Ah, I see you did say that the circular electric field is from the changing applied magnetic field.  Sorry, I skimmed past that and missed it.

So, is the radial electric field still there?

Yes but for electrons inside the core material there is an equal number of protons so we don't see any electric field outside the material.  For the Surface Magneto-electric Effect the electric field from the electrons is of course the field across the capacitor dielectric.
   

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A zero current is a current where the electrons have zero speed. In physics, this is not nonsense, it is a current: I=0.
We are not dealing with zero current.  We are dealing with a constant current.  Moreover we are dealing with a current that is constant when the electrons have a force on them from an induced electric field and that force is trying to increase the current.  The only way the current can remain constant is when there is another electric field that cancels out the induced field.  In the case of a constant current generator driving current around the loop this cancellation comes from the charges built up at the connections to the generator thus presenting the generator with a voltage (you call it an emf) and also creating the reverse electric field along the conductor.  This happens if the loop is open circuited, the only current that flows is that required to build up the charges at the open gap, and a current generator has infinite resistance so is an open circuit.  You could argue that the current pulse establishing that charge separation might explain my anomalous energy component but you haven't and I would shoot that down anyway.  Of course this concept of a single current source connected to the loop at one point is not ideal, it is better to consider a large number of tiny current sources all distributed around the loop.  That better models whatever keeps the electron spinning at a constant spin speed.

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These are quite secondary vocabulary issues. Sometimes you have to use non-formal periphrases to make yourself understood, and not everyone has the same.

Yes, I am quite sure that any misunderstanding between us is due to vocabulary and phrasing.  I tend to assume that what is obvious to me is obvious to anyone else with physics and electronics training. 

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Wasn't your original point that the "spin generator" cancels out the dΦ/dt related emf effect?
That cancels out the dΦ/dt related emf effect phrase is yours, and I don't see the emf being cancelled.  But I accept there is a cancellation of the induced E field that could cause the current to change as stated above.  Perhaps this is what you meant to imply?  The current generator (or the many current generators around the loop) is a model for some source that keeps the electron spinning at a constant rate even though there is an induced circular field opposing the charge spin.  The emf across each generator does not get cancelled.  The spin is not modeled by a superconducting closed loop carrying a current (which does cancel the induced emf, that cancellation would be by the loop current changing value and that doesn't happen, it is constant)
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I would have liked to know if this is the main point to understand and the one you are defending, because this is the point I just showed we have no evidence on.
I respectfully suggest that you have shown no evidence to counter my arguments.
   

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Smudge, if the same principle were applied in reverse, would that not result in destruction of energy into electron spin?

I've witnessed significant anomalous loss of energy into a pair of opposed Tesla Extra coils and was wondering if your model was compatible with this.


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Smudge, if the same principle were applied in reverse, would that not result in destruction of energy into electron spin?
No, the energy would go into the aether somehow.

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I've witnessed significant anomalous loss of energy into a pair of opposed Tesla Extra coils and was wondering if your model was compatible with this.

Yes it possibly could.  If you wind a coil around a cylindrical magnet and pass current such that the field from the coil reduces or negates the field from the magnet you have (a) supplied some energy to the coil but (b) the energy in the field has gone to zero or near zero.  Where has your coil energy and the magnet's field energy gone?  That is an anomalous loss of energy, and in my mind it must go to whatever drives the electron spins to keep them spinning.  Hence my models for spin as (a) some form of quantum motor spinning a spherical charge or (b) a current generator driving current round a loop.
   
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But I accept there is a cancellation of the induced E field that could cause the current to change as stated above.  Perhaps this is what you meant to imply?

That's right

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The current generator (or the many current generators around the loop) is a model for some source that keeps the electron spinning at a constant rate even though there is an induced circular field opposing the charge spin.

Why would a current generator be necessary when dΦ/dt=0 since a motion at constant speed of rotation requires no energy to maintain itself, Newton's first law, an objection already made to which I have not seen an answer?
Does this generator come into action only to overcome the dΦ/dt?
And if there is one for the spin, why wouldn't there be another one for each orbital rotation ?



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That's right

Why would a current generator be necessary when dΦ/dt=0 since a motion at constant speed of rotation requires no energy to maintain itself, Newton's first law, an objection already made to which I have not seen an answer?
When the flux is  constant the current generator is not supplying energy.  The generator is there to explain where the anomalous field energy comes from or disappears to.
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Does this generator come into action only to overcome the dΦ/dt?
I  don't like the expression "to overcome".  I have explained why it is there.
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And if there is one for the spin, why wouldn't there be another one for each orbital rotation ?
There is but those orbits are mostly randomly orientated wrt the magnet axis so they have no effect. Those few that do contribute to the PM magnetism do take part in this energy exchange.
   

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Delete this if off topic Smudge. It's above my pay grade to comment on this thread. This makes more sense to me that current theory (pun intended) of simply electrons spinning.

I just read this from this paper http://www.rexresearch.com/pdf/frolovnewsourcesofenergy.pdf

Tesla wrote on the nature of electricity: «Well, electricity cannot be called Aether in the
broadest sense, but nothing can prevent electricity from being called Aether, which is
related to matter. The rotation of molecules and their Aether causes the tension of the
Aether or electrostatic deformation, the equalization of the tension of the Aether causes
the movements of the Aether or electric currents, and the orbital movements of the
molecules produce the effect of electric and constant magnetism".




   

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@F6
You said
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Depending on the electron model, its size ranges from less than 10-22 to 2.817 9 × 10-15 m, the largest value being the classical radius.
Even with the classical radius, it is one millionth of the interatomic distances. If we reason in cross-section, the spin is at best one millionth of a millionth of the area crossed by the flux.
The interception of an external field by the spin is therefore anecdotal, unless a mechanism can be established that would concentrate the lines of the external field there.
Of course there are also orbital motions, but not only are they small compared to the interatomic distances, but I think I remember that in a magnet they contribute less than 10% to the field. And we are talking about spin, not orbital motion.

The electron has a magnetic dipole moment with a magnitude in the order of the Bohr magneton uB.  Treating that as a current loop with current I and area s, the energy dW delivered to its external field due to an applied dPhi flux change is dW = I.dPhi.  The flux change from a spatially uniform B field is dPhi = s.dB.  Hence dW = Is.dB, but Is is the Bohr magneton so dW = uB.dB.  This is independent of the size of the electron, and it doesn’t need anything to concentrate the flux lines.  A 10-22 electron has 107 greater loop current than a 10-15 electron so its energy contribution is the same.  Note that uB.dB is some form of potential.
   
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...
those orbits are mostly randomly orientated wrt the magnet axis so they have no effect. Those few that do contribute to the PM magnetism do take part in this energy exchange.

The magnetism due to orbital motion is certainly much weaker than that due to spin, but it is far from negligible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_magnetization

Hence my question that if there is a generator behind the spin to maintain the same rotation speed of the charge whatever the external flux, then there should be a similar one for the orbital rotation (if we assume that the orbital rotation is also done with constant speed).


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The electron has a magnetic dipole moment with a magnitude in the order of the Bohr magneton uB.  Treating that as a current loop with current I and area s, the energy dW delivered to its external field due to an applied dPhi flux change is dW = I.dPhi.  The flux change from a spatially uniform B field is dPhi = s.dB.  Hence dW = Is.dB, but Is is the Bohr magneton so dW = uB.dB.  This is independent of the size of the electron, and it doesn’t need anything to concentrate the flux lines.  A 10-22 electron has 107 greater loop current than a 10-15 electron so its energy contribution is the same.  Note that uB.dB is some form of potential.

In the context of a macroscopic flux produced by the sum of the individual fluxes of the electron spins, this is correct. But conversely, we have no assurance that an external macroscopic field will subdivide into an equal number of equal individual fluxes through the spins. I don't see what could guarantee this reciprocity.
« Last Edit: 2022-07-15, 13:45:05 by F6FLT »


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@JimBoot

One can imagine that an aether is the mediator of electromagnetism. But one has to accept the fact that electromagnetism can be modeled rigorously and simply with the basic principle of influence at a distance by the Coulomb force, without assuming anything else.

Only electromagnetic waves have an explicit mediator, the photon. Static fields may also involve a mediator, the virtual photon, but real or virtual, the photon does not depend on an aether theory either.

This does not mean that there is no such thing as "aether" which would be necessary for the functioning of electromagnetism, it just means that as long as there is no experiment to distinguish a situation with or without aether, the aether appears to be a superfluous hypothesis for electromagnetism.

A theory of electromagnetism via the aether will therefore have to be based on new facts, explainable only by it and not by Maxwell's electromagnetism. I am not aware that such facts exist.
Most of the facts claimed as such are either not reproducible or normal and explainable by classical electromagnetism except by those who claim them but without having the competence. Even Tesla. Tesla was a brilliant inventor but not a valid theoretical physicist.


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@JimBoot

One can imagine that an aether is the mediator of electromagnetism. But one has to accept the fact that electromagnetism can be modeled rigorously and simply with the basic principle of influence at a distance by the Coulomb force, without assuming anything else.

But that action at a distance is not instantaneous.  If you played with fast voltage rise times applied to the self capacitance of an electrode (as I have done) and examined the Coulomb field you would find that any change of field travels at velocity c.  This is not EM radiation as it is not a tranverse wave, it is a longitudinal wave along the Coulomb field direction.  So I ask myself the question, when I charge a sphere I establish a radial electric field emanating from the sphere, and apart from a small loss due to radiation (that can be minimized by doing it slowly) the energy I supplied is contained in that field that goes out to infinity.  I recover most of that energy when I discharge the capacitance.  How does the energy in areas away from the sphere travel backwards?  The standard response to that question is the falling voltage transmits a negative longitudinal wave that then cancels out the field leaving behind zero field and zero energy.  But that doesn't really answer the question of how field energy really gets sucked back.  A similar question relates to antenna, the capture area of a typical half wave dipole is much smaller than the presented area of the cylindrical conductors of the antenna.  How does the antenna capture EM energy from EM fields that don't arrive at that presented area?  The standard response is current induced into the receiving antenna cause it to emanate a near field that cancels some of the arriving field and the loss of energy there accounts for the received energy.  So this is another form of action at a distance, the recovery of energy.  But that does not really answer the question of how the near field energy transfer over a distance really takes place, we are told it just happens.  I think the mediator in all this is the active aether.
   
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Only electromagnetic waves have an explicit mediator, the photon. Static fields may also involve a mediator, the virtual photon, but real or virtual, the photon does not depend on an aether theory either.

But the photon is a mystery object having both particle and wave-like characteristic.  That mystery is easily explained by an aether theory.

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This does not mean that there is no such thing as "aether" which would be necessary for the functioning of electromagnetism, it just means that as long as there is no experiment to distinguish a situation with or without aether, the aether appears to be a superfluous hypothesis for electromagnetism.

In my opinion an aether theory that can unite particle and wave-like characteristics is not superfluous.

   

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The magnetism due to orbital motion is certainly much weaker than that due to spin, but it is far from negligible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_magnetization

Hence my question that if there is a generator behind the spin to maintain the same rotation speed of the charge whatever the external flux, then there should be a similar one for the orbital rotation (if we assume that the orbital rotation is also done with constant speed).

Yes and I believe that the non-negligible orbits that contribute to the magnetism also contribute to the energy exchange.

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In the context of a macroscopic flux produced by the sum of the individual fluxes of the electron spins, this is correct. But conversely, we have no assurance that an external macroscopic field will subdivide into an equal number of equal individual fluxes through the spins. I don't see what could guarantee this reciprocity.

Now you are suggesting that fields down at atomic particle dimensions no longer have field-like characteristics, but we know from Electron Spin Resonance that the electrons precess about the field direction so it is still a field, and not some other coagulation.
   
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But that action at a distance is not instantaneous.  If you played with fast voltage rise times applied to the self capacitance of an electrode (as I have done) and examined the Coulomb field you would find that any change of field travels at velocity c.  This is not EM radiation as it is not a tranverse wave, it is a longitudinal wave along the Coulomb field direction.  So I ask myself the question, when I charge a sphere I establish a radial electric field emanating from the sphere, and apart from a small loss due to radiation (that can be minimized by doing it slowly) the energy I supplied is contained in that field that goes out to infinity.  I recover most of that energy when I discharge the capacitance.  How does the energy in areas away from the sphere travel backwards?
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There is another way of looking at it. The field around each charge is always present, extends to infinity, it is an intrinsic part of the charge. And a charge is conserved. So you can never change the field of a charge, you can't take any energy from it or give it any energy.

Since positive and negative charges are equal in number in the universe, in the general case their fields cancel each other out.
To obtain a field, we must separate the positive charges from the negative charges, and therefore perform work, work that is reflected in the energy that can be withdrawn from the field. The fields of positive and negative charges are effectively superimposed, even when their resultant is zero, since the fields do not interact.

So when you say that by charging a sphere you generate a radial field, this is a partial way of looking at things. By charging a sphere, you shift the field of negative charges from that of positive charges in all the surrounding space, making a non-zero resultant appear. This shift is propagated from near to near at the speed c as you said.

When you get it back, you ask yourself: "How does the energy in areas away from the sphere travel backwards?"
The answer is simple, the energy doesn't travel, unlike the field. The energy of the field is only potential. Such and such a field in such and such a place allows you to recover energy, but the only physical reality is the field, not the energy.
The best proof of this is the interference of two radio transmitters of the same frequency, spaced far enough apart not to influence each other. If we draw a straight line from the antenna of one of them, it will cross areas where the field is double, and others where it is zero, depending on the interference. It is therefore clear that the energy did not follow this straight line, otherwise we would not have a null zone, and that if it had zigzagged from one zone of constructive interference to another in order to pass, it would have had to go at a speed >c because the path would no longer be a straight line.

Once we understand that energy is only the potentiality of a physical condition, we also understand that it does not have to propagate. Energy is a condition created locally by the configuration of the elements of reality in it, such as the field, and this condition, the recoverable energy, depends on the frame of reference and therefore on the observer. Energy is not an intrinsic property of the field.

You ask the question in the context of electromagnetism, but why not ask it for other forms of energy as well? Why don't you ask yourself where kinetic energy is or how it travels? Because again, this is not an element of reality. The car will have kinetic energy if you are on the side of the road, but if you are in the car, its kinetic energy will be zero compared to you. As you can see, the question of the "travel" of energy is nonsense, energy is only a potentiality of local conditions as seen by the observer.

In the near field, you change the superposition configuration of the positive and negative charge fields, so you create distant conditions where energy can be recovered locally, but no more than your charge displacement operation, such as charging a capacitor, will have required.

PS - I may be a little less present in the next few days, I'm off on holiday to visit Cornwall and Wales  :). But I'm not giving up on this interesting discussion.


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"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"
   
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