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img  vrand
HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « on: 2022-01-16, 01:15:19 »
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"To remind anybody doing this reseach that injury or death is possible in experimenting with HHO gas and this is for educational purposes only  and harm reduction!"


"sharing is caring"

Hi,

Back here to report on my latest build findings on a tubular style Browns gas HHO device and to try to do a running Log of build progress.

HHO, Browns Gas, or Rhodes Gas, are 1960-70's US patents for the idea of "neutral plates." That in-between the 2 electrodes connected to a power source, were several neutral non-powered plates not connected to power but created a series cell of added voltages. So a 6 cell can be run on 12V DC power source, not requiring only a 2V DC to create water electrolysis.

Tubular HHO design has a center pipe/rod as one electrode (Pos.) and the outer pipe as the other electrode (Neg.).  Instead of the "flat cell plates" HHO units currently on the market.

See attached photo of my 6 tubes HHO design. Nickel plated (for low amp. units), stainless steel 304 0.065 thick tube sizes 0.5", 0.75, 1.00, 1.25, 1.5, and the 2" outer tube 24" long enclosing the HHO unit.

Water enters one end, circulates through the 5 series cell tubular unit and exits the other end with the collected HHO gas.  All re-circulating by a water pump to a gas separation chamber, where the HHO gas rises to the top and is used to fuel gas engines, and the water electrolyte goes back through the tubular HHO unit to collect more HHO gas.

So far other researchers tests have shown it can run car engines on 100% HHO gas.  More to come.

Checking to see if photo uploads...
« Last Edit: 2022-01-28, 03:19:56 by vrand »
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #1 on: 2022-01-16, 01:26:43 »
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Here are some additional photos of the unit.

- The 3D printed End Caps coated with epoxy
- The 6 tubes nickel plated, 2 sets
- Input for water/electrolyte Pos. end 316 SS nipple in 3d form prior to epoxy + cement pour
- Output of water and HHO gas
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #2 on: 2022-01-16, 09:39:39 »
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Attached are more photos of the new tubular HHO cell design inspired by Fred Wells. In 2019 he emailed me crude drawings of his 2012 design and said "sharing is caring" so now I am sharing it with you all.

Fred has been running his cars and demonstrated running 50kWp generator with only water added into his 8 foot tall cell design back in 2018, so it looks real to me and so I am recreating his small 2 foot unit.

The End-Cap cell encloures are cast in a mixture of epoxy and portland cement and poured into a 3d printed form/shell. One end has to be a dielectric insulator for the 10-300A DC input for the center positive electode. Both also needs to withstand +80C water temperature, and to be able to hold 65 PSI water pressure for the recirculating pump I got off ebay"

"High Pressure Marine 12V DC 60PSI 5.0 GPM Water Pump on Demand Boat"
shorturl.at/iqvHU

Check out the linked Youtube 2013 video of his 18" cell being installed in a "900HP Camaro car" as the guy describing the complete setup is instructive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_f74KApJRQ
   
img  Paul-R
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #3 on: 2022-01-16, 10:29:44 »
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This is interesting but the $64,000 question has to be:

What is the electrical power in for different gas flows (at STP) out?
   
img  Jerry Volland
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #4 on: 2022-01-16, 16:19:00 »
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Quote from: Paul-R on 2022-01-16, 10:29:44
This is interesting but the $64,000 question has to be:

What is the electrical power in for different gas flows (at STP) out?

I would think that the output does not have to equal or exceed the input power if the goal is to power an ICE with batteries.  It shouldn't be hard to beat the pathetic efficiency of a petrol engine, even without OU.
   
img  lota
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #5 on: 2022-01-16, 16:21:10 »
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Hello
is there a drawing for it?
Lota
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #6 on: 2022-01-16, 19:21:11 »
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Hi,
See the attached pdf drawing I made in 2019 based on an email Fred Wells sent me in 2019 of his (Future Energy Concepts LLC) tubular water cell design.

This was an early drawing that had the end caps as Stainless Steel electrodes, in short a single cell unit. 

This summer I figured out that if the end caps instead were made as an insulator material instead of stainless steel then it would be more efficient with the 5 neutral tubes.
So for 12V DC power source each cell would be 2.4V DC instead of 12V DC, meaning less heat wasted.

The Neutral flat plates HHO units were invented by Brown and Rhodes back in the 1960's. 

Mr. Wells has not replied to my wish for more free info, so I had t figure it out myself for the past 18 months.
He did share the initial Idea of using tubes, and his many videos showing him and others running cars and generators.

Thank you Fred Wells, aka Fast Freddy!



Quote from: lota on 2022-01-16, 16:21:10
Hello
is there a drawing for it?
Lota
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #7 on: 2022-01-16, 19:34:13 »
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Here are the 2 end caps drawings showing dimensions use to create 3d printed models later used to make forms to pour in epoxy and cement.

Labeled Negative and Positive but really are the early terms I used based on the 2012 drawings.

Later last summer I figured out the Browns Gas/HHO neutral plates idea, and have since built several units and ran some electrical tests.

Attached are early drawings of the End Caps with the O-Rings for sealing the 2" Dia outer tube to the end caps. 
Since then I went to Epoxy Cementing the tubes to the end caps to stop the leaking.  It was easier for me as I did not have success with the 1/16" and 1/8" O-rings.
 
« Last Edit: 2022-01-25, 06:44:47 by vrand »
   
img  Paul-R
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #8 on: 2022-01-16, 23:19:55 »
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Quote from: Jerry Volland on 2022-01-16, 16:19:00
I would think that the output does not have to equal or exceed the input power if the goal is to power an ICE with batteries.  It shouldn't be hard to beat the pathetic efficiency of a petrol engine, even without OU.

I doubt that it is petrol that is the problem; it is the ICE design. i.e. No matter what powers a car's engine, it will give an efficiency of 20 - 30% or so. I can't see this approach giving a better result than feeding the H2 into a fuel cell and using a standard quality LX motor.
   
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Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #9 on: 2022-01-16, 23:37:47 »
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Quote from: Paul-R on 2022-01-16, 23:19:55
I doubt that it is petrol that is the problem; it is the ICE design. i.e. No matter what powers a car's engine, it will give an efficiency of 20 - 30% or so. I can't see this approach giving a better result than feeding the H2 into a fuel cell and using a standard quality LX motor.

This is a good point.  Although I have seen claims that hho boosters do increase combustion efficiency, and milage.  The things I can't afford to buy are the fuel cell - for my car or off grid location - or the high powered electric motor.
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #10 on: 2022-01-17, 00:31:38 »
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900HP Camaro Build

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_f74KApJRQ

Youtube video on converting a Camaro to run on water.

At the 8:15 min. in the video the speaker presents the V621 Fuel Cell setup with all the parts needed in converting the car to run on Fred Wells 2012 design.

That "Fuel Cell" design is what the drawing I uploaded today was supposed to be to my understanding at the time.

« Last Edit: 2022-03-11, 18:07:52 by vrand »
   
img  Chet K
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #11 on: 2022-01-17, 02:31:42 »
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Vrand
Thank you for sharing this design, you have mentioned fellows running on HHO
I remember Fast Freddy’s claim from few years back , a rather big vehicle he claimed to be driving around
On water fuel /HHO , ( around Texas USA ?)

Do you have any links to these fellows doing this ? Actually driving vehicles solely on the HHO in an ICE ?

Thanks
Chet

Yes EDIT for below info from vrand

Thanks will look !
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #12 on: 2022-01-17, 02:39:14 »
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Mechanically connecting the Center Positive Electrode into the center of this HHO tubular cell was a challenge.  The negative DC battery terminal was easily connected to the outer 2" tube surface, no problem there.

The way that I did it was to tap thread the 1/2" solid SS 304 center rod at one end with a 1/4-20 thread.  Then brought the 3.5" long 1/4" all-thread to a SS nipple with a 1/4" SS Jam Nut cut down on the sides for the water to flow by the nut.  The jam nut then connects to the nipple where the pos. terminal then connects with a clamp. See attached photos.

This Center Electrical Terminal design works to;
- supply the +150A DC current
- Connects the Positive battery terminal to the SS nipple with a clamp
- take the heat from the +150 Amps input
- allows inlet 65psi pumped water to the HHO cell to flow past it

If anybody has any other ideas on how to connect to the center electrode please let us know. 
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #13 on: 2022-01-17, 02:45:09 »
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Hi,

Check out his current website "Quantum Fuels" that has some of his most notable videos and photos at the bottom of the page..

https://wellssportstore.com/quantum-fuels

HHO Archived Videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4Yzo7z2c-cTq0z_JMQ5fdg


Quote from: Chet K on 2022-01-17, 02:31:42
Vrand
Thank you for sharing this design, you have mentioned fellows running on HHO
I remember Fast Freddy’s claim from few years back , a rather big vehicle he claimed to be driving around
On water fuel /HHO , ( around Texas USA ?)

Do you have any links to these fellows doing this ? Actually driving vehicles solely on the HHO in an ICE ?

Thanks
Chet
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #14 on: 2022-01-17, 05:14:56 »
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Test Results to date:

Summary
This Tubular HHO Cell really likes Lots of amps at Low voltage. It must be due to the following points:
- Browns Gas - Neutral tubes/plates to series divide the cell voltages = 12V DC divide by 5 cells = 2.24V DC
- tight cell spacing of 1/16"
- 65 psi water pump re-circulating the water thru the cell
- and efficiently stripping off the HHO bubbles
- and carrying the water and HHO gas out of the cell to the "gas separation unit"
- to collect the HHO gas out of the top to fuel engines etc.
- high amperage at low voltage input

Cell Volts   HHO DC Volts   Amps          power W
1.642          8.21                   122.00         1004

At 1.642V DC and 122A, was the lowest voltage at such high input done with the following power supply off Amazon for $15.
The attached photo of the power supply did just that at 122A output before it smoked and stopped working.  Pretty amazing though to see how that power supply tried its hardest to feed the HHO Tube unit at just what it needed before smoking out.  I have since gone to 200A IGBT Arc Welder with no problems.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B4B2X35?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details


Michael Faraday said 1.23V DC was ideal, so not much off at 1.642V DC = less wasted heat.
 


 
   
img  Paul-R
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #15 on: 2022-01-17, 11:55:45 »
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Quote from: vrand on 2022-01-17, 00:31:38

That "Fuel Cell" design is what the drawing I uploaded today was supposed to be to my understanding at the time.


I think this is a matter of definitions. If I remember correctly, NASA first used the term, probably in the 60s, to define a device which takes O2 and H2 and gives electricity. In his chapter 10, I think Patrick refers to "HHO cells" or "electrolysis cells" to distinguish.
   
img  Paul-R
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #16 on: 2022-01-17, 12:15:11 »
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Quote from: Jerry Volland on 2022-01-16, 23:37:47
This is a good point.  Although I have seen claims that hho boosters do increase combustion efficiency, and milage.


I think you are quite right. Particularly the Bob Boyce system. But the overall percentage, although improved, will still be poor.
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #17 on: 2022-01-18, 01:31:44 »
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Test Results cont.:

The most exciting test result was the individual cell voltage dropping to below Faraday's 1.23V DC, coming in at 1.104V DC.
Lowest cell voltage recorded was 1.104V DC at 62.30A.

                      Cell Volts        Volts         Amps
01/07/22      1.642         8.21          41.15
01/08/22      1.104         5.52          62.30

It was a brief test video recorded by cell phone for later transcribing into spreadsheets and log. Still transcribing.
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #18 on: 2022-01-18, 06:06:00 »
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Here is the diagram of the 2012 Fred Wells, Skype handle Lazarus Tesla, layout with the V621M Fuel Cell position.
   
img  Paul-R
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #19 on: 2022-01-18, 10:06:13 »
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Quote from: vrand on 2022-01-18, 01:31:44
Test Results cont.:

The most exciting test result was the individual cell voltage dropping to below Faraday's 1.23V DC, coming in at 1.104V DC.
Lowest cell voltage recorded was 1.104V DC at 62.30A.

                      Cell Volts        Volts         Amps
01/07/22      1.642         8.21          41.15
01/08/22      1.104         5.52          62.30

It was a brief test video recorded by cell phone for later transcribing into spreadsheets and log. Still transcribing.

What was the rate of gas flow?
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #20 on: 2022-01-18, 17:36:17 »
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Quote from: Paul-R on 2022-01-18, 10:06:13
What was the rate of gas flow?

Hi,

For the moment "lots of bubbles"

- Still need to build a gas-separation unit, to takeoff the HHO gas from the top
- Then to feed the HHO to applications such as car engines, gen-sets to create electricity, gas flow meter, or other applications for the HHO gas..

Here is a Youtube video of Mr. Wells fueling a 50kWp genset under a load:

Last 50 KW video, tuned and polished, ready for prime time
https://wellssportstore.com/quantum-fuels


This is what got me to publish here my little effort on this Tubular HHO Brown's Gas design as nobody

 - knows about
- and are not building these units

So, maybe my little publishing effort will get more people interested in this New type of "HHO Tubular Unit, with Neutral Tubes" design, instead of the current marketplace HHO units with the "Flat Plates" design!

Mr. Wells was kind enough to share his 2012 design drawings with me and he said

"sharing is caring"

But since 2012 I have not seen anybody sell these units in the marketplace, or even heard of this tubular neutral plates design.  So here I am trying to get this info out publicly for the first time evidently...
...




 
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #21 on: 2022-01-19, 00:03:05 »
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Quantum Fuels sHHO Powering ICE Engines

Website
https://wellssportstore.com/quantum-fuels

Enlarged Photos

- 50 kWp Propane Converted, Ford 6 cylinder, Electrical Generator  from back in 2018.
- 900 HP Camaro car conversion installation in trunk
- 1.5 MWp Cat 16 cylinder engine conversion generator set.





« Last Edit: 2022-01-19, 02:22:59 by vrand »
   
img  lota
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #22 on: 2022-01-21, 07:58:57 »
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Hello
the first pipes. Does the part run on pure HHO or electrolyte?
Greeting
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #23 on: 2022-01-21, 08:39:40 »
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Quote from: lota on 2022-01-21, 07:58:57
Hello
the first pipes. Does the part run on pure HHO or electrolyte?
Greeting

Hi,

Electrolyte (NaOH or KOH) in the distilled water helps reduce the voltage and increase current/amperage, for more efficient HHO gas production.
   
img  vrand
Re: HHO Tubular Browns Gas Build « Reply #24 on: 2022-01-21, 18:33:34 »
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Cell #2 Build v9

Photos showing
- 6 Tubular HHO Unit; arranged from 2" diam. to 0.75" and center 1/2" rod solid rod
- Electrical Connection to Battery Power source
   
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