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OverUnity Research > Benches > AlienGrey > Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications.
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Author Topic: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications.  (Read 47422 times)
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #175 on: 2023-08-20, 18:14:54 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #62 on: 2023-06-01, 09:26:18 »


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I looked at my Grenade (with Inductor and antenna) using several methods / equipment to determine its resonance frequencies / harmonics.

Here i present the result using Spectrum Analyzers


I have the Inductor and Antenna around the Grenade left alone with both leads open.

I "excite" the Grenade with a coupling coil (4 turns) attached to my FG set for square wave, and measure the resulting signals using the SA probe ground lead on one of the Grenade leads and the SA probe tip connected to the insulation of the other end thus avoiding to "load" the Grenade too much with the 50 Ohm impedance of the SA, see diagram.

Results can be seen in the attached pictures, first the MDO3054 SA results, then the Rigol DSA 815 results.

The strongest response was with the FG set to 1.87MHz (1/4 wave resonance), and the generated harmonics shown are:


1.87MHz (base resonance)
5.6MHz  (3rd Harmonic)
9.33MHz (5th Harmonic)
13.1MHz (7th Harmonic)
16.8MHz (9th Harmonic, strongest)
20.5MHz (11th Harmonic)
24.3MHz (13th Harmonic)
etc.


Itsu
------------------------
SA Grenade 1.8MHz excite.png
* SA Grenade 1.8MHz excite.png (31.66 kB, 800x600 - viewed 105 times.)
DSA815 Grenade 1.8MHz excite.png
* DSA815 Grenade 1.8MHz excite.png (35.2 kB, 800x480 - viewed 101 times.)
Grenade SA measurement.png
* Grenade SA measurement.png (15.22 kB, 1091x768 - viewed 52 times.)
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #176 on: 2023-08-20, 18:15:43 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #63 on: 2023-06-01, 13:10:17 »


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   itsu:
   Ok, thanks for the info. Can you explain as you see it, just what does that tell you?
Seams like the numbers don't really match up to what Stalker mentioned.
And that makes me think that there may also be something wrong with the previous build information and device instructions, as well.
   Thanks again itsu.

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2023-06-01, 14:14:48 by NickZ »
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #177 on: 2023-08-20, 18:16:51 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #64 on: 2023-06-01, 14:48:44 »


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Nick,

well you mentioned here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104865#msg104865 that: "Stalker mentions Grenade frequency of 15.6Mhz", so perhaps he was referring to a harmonic like my strongest 9th harmonic at 16.8MHz which does exist in the Grenade.

If this is important i do not know yet, but for now It's nice to know the grenade is generating HF over a broad spectrum.

Itsu
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #178 on: 2023-08-20, 18:17:18 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #65 on: 2023-06-01, 14:52:21 »


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Itsu,

Have you tried this method of Sergey stalker.

https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI

Maxolous
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #179 on: 2023-08-20, 18:24:05 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #66 on: 2023-06-01, 15:36:31 »


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Itsu,

If you go to your sub-harmonic, maybe You're using divide by 50 or divide by 100.
If divide by 100 , then you will have 18.7 khz.  Choose range of 18---19khz with a square wave signal. As you sweep check where your 3rd harmonic is at maximum. It could be at sub-harmonic18.5khz or same 18.7khz

Maxolous.
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #180 on: 2023-08-20, 18:24:36 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #67 on: 2023-06-01, 15:42:11 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-01, 14:48:44
Nick,

well you mentioned here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104865#msg104865 that: "Stalker mentions Grenade frequency of 15.6Mhz", so perhaps he was referring to a harmonic like my strongest 9th harmonic at 16.8MHz which does exist in the Grenade.

If this is important i do not know yet, but for now It's nice to know the grenade is generating HF over a broad spectrum.

Itsu

The issue is 15.6 MHz I still think is a typographical error or translation error. All manners of harmonics are there and you're not going to use them.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #181 on: 2023-08-20, 18:25:15 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #68 on: 2023-06-01, 15:44:24 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-01, 14:48:44
Nick,

well you mentioned here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104865#msg104865 that: "Stalker mentions Grenade frequency of 15.6Mhz", so perhaps he was referring to a harmonic like my strongest 9th harmonic at 16.8MHz which does exist in the Grenade.

If this is important i do not know yet, but for now It's nice to know the grenade is generating HF over a broad spectrum.

Itsu

Hi Itsu,
Nice to see those figures, is it possible to do another scan in DUT mode?
Inclusive ground connected.
Just to see what changes.

Grt, Ape
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #182 on: 2023-08-20, 18:25:50 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #69 on: 2023-06-01, 16:44:28 »


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  As I had mentioned previously, my grenade's best output frequency is around 18.5KHz. That is with the complete system grounded,
Including the kacher circuit. That is the best running frequency for my 37.5m grenade, and 18.75m inductor. Tuning for best gain.
  I understand that more than a small deviation of 300KHz is enough for it not to sync. And mine does sync, but still needs something.
   
   NickZ

   
« Last Edit: 2023-06-01, 18:18:55 by NickZ »
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #183 on: 2023-08-20, 18:26:33 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #70 on: 2023-06-01, 21:39:18 »


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Quote from: Maxolous on 2023-06-01, 14:52:21
Itsu,

Have you tried this method of Sergey stalker.

https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI

Maxolous

Max,

i think so, some years ago, i will see if Vasik had translated this video then.
Not sure now if he (Stalker) is tuning for peaks or dips in this video.


Quote
Itsu,

If you go to your sub-harmonic, maybe You're using divide by 50 or divide by 100.
If divide by 100 , then you will have 18.7 khz.  Choose range of 18---19khz with a square wave signal. As you sweep check where your 3rd harmonic is at maximum. It could be at sub-harmonic18.5khz or same 18.7khz

Maxolous.


Max,

i will give it a try.

Itsu
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #184 on: 2023-08-20, 18:27:10 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #71 on: 2023-06-01, 21:47:01 »


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Quote from: Apecore on 2023-06-01, 15:44:24
Hi Itsu,
Nice to see those figures, is it possible to do another scan in DUT mode?
Inclusive ground connected.
Just to see what changes.

Grt, Ape

Hi Ape,

not sure what you mean with "scan in DUT mode?"

But i understand you want me to look at those harmonics again, but now with a ground wire connected.

But remember that one side of the Grenade was already grounded by the Spectrum Analyzer so i don't think it will make any difference.

Itsu
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #185 on: 2023-08-20, 18:27:46 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #72 on: 2023-06-01, 22:21:38 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-01, 21:47:01
Hi Ape,

not sure what you mean with "scan in DUT mode?"

But i understand you want me to look at those harmonics again, but now with a ground wire connected.

But remember that one side of the Grenade was already grounded by the Spectrum Analyzer so i don't think it will make any difference.

Itsu

I did understand you did a measurement in DUT... the grenade connected as it schould be?
I saw difference in grenade stand alone results and conected as built
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #186 on: 2023-08-20, 18:28:22 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #73 on: 2023-06-02, 09:45:37 »


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Hi Ape,

with DUT i mean "Device Under Test" in this case the Grenade.

Because in some publications they call the device / component being tested this way (DUT) like here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104868#msg104868.

Anyway, yes, there will be a difference in measurement results with the Grenade (DUT) as stand alone like i have now and when in the complete circuit.

Itsu
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #187 on: 2023-08-20, 18:29:03 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #74 on: 2023-06-02, 12:02:48 »


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Quote from: Maxolous on 2023-06-01, 15:36:31
Itsu,

If you go to your sub-harmonic, maybe You're using divide by 50 or divide by 100.
If divide by 100 , then you will have 18.7 khz.  Choose range of 18---19khz with a square wave signal. As you sweep check where your 3rd harmonic is at maximum. It could be at sub-harmonic18.5khz or same 18.7khz

Maxolous.

Itsu

My little correction here; "divide by 10 will be 187khz.

Maybe you will need to sweep between 180khz ---190khz , that's what I meant to say please.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #188 on: 2023-08-20, 18:30:37 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #75 on: 2023-06-02, 21:25:25 »


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Max,

concerning your post #73 where you wrote:

Quote
Itsu,

Have you tried this method of Sergey stalker.

https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI

Maxolous


i have found out that i indeed tried that as can be seen here:  https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90914#msg90914.
The attached PDF (pp.pdf) there from Vasik contains a short translation too, so i will revisit that part / pdf once again.

By the way that thread contains a wealth of information especially due to the (translation) work of Vasik041.


Concerning your above post about "divide by 10 will be 187khz", i tried that too using my SA and the earlier used measurement setup:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104955#msg104955.

At 187Khz square wave carrier frequency we see these harmonics:



So the carrier frequency of 187kHz shows as a low amplitude peak with increasing amplitudes (odd) harmonics peaking at the 9th harmonic at 1.693MHz, so the 10th (even) harmonic does not exist.

EDITED the 1.69MHZ peak to be the 9th harmonic, not the 11th.

Itsu
------------------------
187khz 5mhz sweep.png
* 187khz 5mhz sweep.png (34.06 kB, 800x600 - viewed 291 times.)
« Last Edit: 2023-06-03, 20:01:43 by Itsu »
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #189 on: 2023-08-20, 18:32:35 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #76 on: 2023-06-02, 22:58:50 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-02, 21:25:25
Max,

concerning your post #73 where you wrote:


i have found out that i indeed tried that as can be seen here:  https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90914#msg90914.
The attached PDF (pp.pdf) there from Vasik contains a short translation too, so i will revisit that part / pdf once again.

By the way that thread contains a wealth of information especially due to the (translation) work of Vasik041.


Concerning your above post about "divide by 10 will be 187khz", i tried that too using my SA and the earlier used measurement setup:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104955#msg104955.

At 187Khz square wave carrier frequency we see these harmonics:



So the carrier frequency of 187kHz shows as a low amplitude peak with increasing amplitudes (odd) harmonics peaking at the 11th harmonic at 1.693MHz, so the 10th (even) harmonic does not exist.

Itsu

Nice work Itsu.
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #190 on: 2023-08-20, 18:34:10 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #77 on: 2023-06-03, 11:58:16 »


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Itsu,

The 1.693 MHZ might be best for you

Maxolous
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #191 on: 2023-08-20, 18:35:34 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #78 on: 2023-06-03, 17:28:26 »


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Buy me a beer
Itsu

The only way to find the Fr of these coils is like the attached, IMO.

Regards

Mike
------------------------
Itsu coils Fr.png
* Itsu coils Fr.png (148.39 kB, 787x421 - viewed 232 times.)


---------------------------
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #192 on: 2023-08-20, 18:36:26 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #79 on: 2023-06-03, 19:28:10 »
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May I ask : why so many coil layers ? Was it explained ?
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #193 on: 2023-08-20, 18:38:15 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #80 on: 2023-06-03, 19:58:48 »


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Quote from: Maxolous on 2023-06-03, 11:58:16
Itsu,

The 1.693 MHZ might be best for you

Maxolous

Max,

well that depends, as i still think the 1/4 wave resonance of this coil is at 1.879MHz and the above harmonics only shows odd harmonics due to me using a symmetrical (50% duty cycle) waveform.

This changes if i reduce the duty cycle from 50% to 36% (something stalker promoted too by setting the push-pull duty cycle to 33% if i recall correctly).

Then still with my 187kHz carrier frequency, the SA shows both odd and even harmonics, including the 10th harmonics at 1.88MHz (had to reduce the max. frequency to 2.5MHz), see:




Itsu
------------------------
187khz 2.5mhz sweep.png
* 187khz 2.5mhz sweep.png (34.25 kB, 800x600 - viewed 228 times.)
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #194 on: 2023-08-20, 21:00:58 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #81 on: 2023-06-03, 21:39:08 »


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Quote from: Centraflow on 2023-06-03, 17:28:26
Itsu

The only way to find the Fr of these coils is like the attached, IMO.

Regards

Mike

Mike,

if i do that, i get the following screenshot (i reduced the sweeping range to 10MHz (from your 50) as we primarily want to know this lower frequency range only):



So each horizontal division is 1MHz (starting from 1kHz) so we see a big resonance peak at 1.8MHz and going left a smaller peak around 600kHz so rather similar with what we have seen using the VNA and SA (1/4 Wave resonance at 1.879MHz)

Using a 10s sweep.

Itsu
------------------------
10MHz sweep Mike.png
* 10MHz sweep Mike.png (61.83 kB, 640x600 - viewed 218 times.)
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #195 on: 2023-08-20, 21:01:18 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #82 on: 2023-06-04, 08:05:11 »


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Buy me a beer
Well that confirms the Fr. Does that coil normally have a ground running through the centre? If so then it will form a multi wave at that frequency, like a vibrator.

Regards

Mike


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
     
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #196 on: 2023-08-20, 21:02:44 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #83 on: 2023-06-04, 09:36:33 »


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Mike,

no, the hot end is running through its center.

Itsu
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #197 on: 2023-08-20, 21:03:16 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #84 on: 2023-06-04, 09:50:44 »


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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-06-04, 09:36:33
Mike,

no, the hot end is running through its center.

Itsu

Interesting, and it was like that when you did that sweep? That must be why it is what I call "fuzzy" pulses.

Regards

Mike
« Last Edit: 2023-06-05, 18:55:01 by Centraflow »

---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
        
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #85 on: 2023-06-04, 12:00:59 »
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #198 on: 2023-08-20, 21:04:31 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #85 on: 2023-06-04, 12:00:59 »


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Quote from: Centraflow on 2023-06-04, 09:50:44
Interesting, and it was like that when you did that sweep? That must be why it is what I call "fuzy" pulses.

Regards

Mike

Yes, see this picture of my Grenade:  https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104788#msg104788

The thick left part is the hot end, and the both leads come out on the right side.

The "fuzzy" pulses i think are more due to the low amplitude (due to the 10Meg series resistor).

Itsu
        
   
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Re: Don Smith Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #199 on: 2023-08-20, 21:05:14 »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #86 on: 2023-06-04, 12:03:32 »


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Quote from: forest on 2023-06-03, 19:28:10
May I ask : why so many coil layers ? Was it explained ?

Hi Forest,

i don't know, it was like that from the beginning, some say to get a low inductance, some say to get multiple standing waves or resonance peaks, but its anyones guess i think.

Itsu
        
   
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