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Author Topic: DrStiffler's exotic generator.  (Read 30474 times)
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img  Tecstatic
DrStiffler's exotic generator. « on: 2010-11-12, 01:47:16 »
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Today I stubled upon DrStiffler's homepage, as there was two new videos yesterday, which I can not see at home today  ???

DrStiffler has put this new stuff up, have a look.

http://67.76.235.52/exoticgens.htm

It looks like a powerful generator with that large toroid.

The cone coils seems bifilar wound.

Anyone here who knows what this is, I have never seen this before.

If the good Doc is right here, we don't have much time left to succeed.

http://67.76.235.52

Eric
   
img  MileHigh
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #1 on: 2010-11-12, 02:22:07 »
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Just a general comment or two for those that are doing work with the SEC.

The whole shebang is based on the fact that high frequency AC power in the 10 MHz range will propagate along single wires and do other seemingly magical looking things.  Many times small stray capacitance elements in the various circuits will allow the transmission of decent amounts of power due to the fairly high frequencies that are being employed.  Even a very small capacitor or a stray capacitance can look like a near short-circuit at very high frequencies.  That's why fluorescent light bulbs light up when you are holding them in your hand and aren't touching anything directly.  The stray capacitance completes the circuit and allows power to flow into the fluorescent tube.

I take issue with the term "Spatial Energy Coherence."  It implies that something special is going on when that's not the case.  It's all nothing more than Electromagnetics 101.  Certainly it's interesting and you can have fun with it or try to really learn what is going on, but it's not special.

Another comment is that viewing the apparent brightness of a single LED or a bank of LEDs is almost meaningless.  You have no idea what the current and voltage waveforms are like and most importantly you don't know what the on-off duty cycle is like.  Your eyes can't see the flicker and you simply don't know.  Likewise, when you try to make a direct measurement of the power that is used to light up a bank of LEDs by an SEC, it's very difficult if not impossible to do.  You would need a super high-end DSO to do it.  LEDs are are non-linear devices and therefore you have to know the instantaneous voltage and current values for a full cycle of the very high frequency waveform to do this.  For the average experimenter this is an insurmountable challenge.

There is a "Captret" buzz going on on the other forums and I just looked at Dr. Stiffler's response to this.  I give him full credit here for trying to set the record straight.  The "Captret" concept is silly and a complete waste of time.  People are seeing battery voltages increase by 1/100th of a volt and getting all excited.  It's the same old story; they are observing a battery that is clearly and unequivocally discharging and going down in energy but getting all excited by the slight increases in the measured battery voltage as it discharges.  If only the whole culture of forum experimenters could get over this intellectual hurdle and stop focusing on battery voltages but rather focus on measuring battery energy so much wasted time would be saved which could be put to better use.

MileHigh
   
img  ion
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #2 on: 2010-11-12, 03:15:13 »
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Quote from: MileHigh on 2010-11-12, 02:22:07

 If only the whole culture of forum experimenters could get over this intellectual hurdle and stop focusing on battery voltages but rather focus on measuring battery energy so much wasted time would be saved which could be put to better use.

MileHigh

The problem is even more systemic. A good scientific approach is to try everything possible to disprove one's own theory with careful measurements with many differing methods before presenting it for peer review.

We see the exact opposite in most of forum culture, with a wild claim at the starting gate, and a feeding frenzy of fanatical subscribers (FFFS) and woe betide the voice of reason should it interject.

By the way, what kind of doctor is the good Dr. S? anyone a clue? Like Dr. Lindemann I presume?

The "charge" on that "captret" nearly killed me. LOL


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  MileHigh
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #3 on: 2010-11-12, 04:52:19 »
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Quote from: ION on 2010-11-12, 03:15:13
The problem is even more systemic. A good scientific approach is to try everything possible to disprove one's own theory with careful measurements with many differing methods before presenting it for peer review.

We see the exact opposite in most of forum culture, with a wild claim at the starting gate, and a feeding frenzy of fanatical subscribers (FFFS) and woe betide the voice of reason should it interject.

I agree 100%.  Let's hope that the situation gradually improves over time.

A case in point is that for a while I tried to get experimenters to measure the output impedance of their batteries to gauge their state of health or their state of charge.  At the same time this would eliminate the term "fluffy charge."  I tried many times but have given up.  In my fantasies all of the experimenters are working with battery output impedance measurements, and they get to know different sizes and types of batteries and their associated output impedances.  They work together and define standard protocols for measuring the output impedances for different sizes and types of batteries.  This would give them a new measurement "currency" and allow them to work with batteries in a more organized and intelligent manner.  Unfortunately, I think the concept is beyond the grasp of most of the experimenters and will never reach a critical mass.  It's doubly unfortunate because almost everybody works with batteries in one form or another.

MileHigh
   
img  szaxx
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #4 on: 2010-11-12, 10:02:55 »
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Hi,

I totally agree.
There are some that postulate their theories and do a very good job. However more often than required, simple things like the KVA rating on an MCB, aka power supply impedance, fail them miserably.
Many an interesting read has been unfinished by 101 MAJOR mistakes.
The 'doc' has some points of interest but likes his own way of doing things. He may be a little eccentric but has a lot of followers. Stray capcitance, or RF parasitics can explain much including adding a measuring device and 'the effect stops' .....
Otherwise an easy to follow project, maybe an unexpected find will present itself and add another piece in the OU enigma.
Steve.
   
img  Tecstatic
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #5 on: 2010-11-12, 10:51:16 »
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Another characteristic of the forum culture is many thread postings, which despite being interesting, they are also OT. Sometimes so many it can be hard to figure out the thread subject by just looking at the body text of the reply posts.

Eric
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #6 on: 2010-11-12, 11:49:06 »
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Quote from: ION on 2010-11-12, 03:15:13
We see the exact opposite in most of forum culture, with a wild claim at the starting gate, and a feeding frenzy of fanatical subscribers (FFFS) and woe betide the voice of reason should it interject.

By the way, what kind of doctor is the good Dr. S? anyone a clue? Like Dr. Lindemann I presume?

Fully agree Ion.

Fuel is added to the fire by many forum members that have not even the slightest grasp of science, are not prepared to study or research and who simply jump on the latest bandwagon quite happy to spout totally mindless garbage in support. The uneducated wannabes are a bane of these forums, as are the naive and gullible that accept every word as gospel and serve only to spread the nonsense.

Doc Stiffler has his flaws (and I'm not saying I don't have any), but I tried to point out to him the quite simple science behind his wireless electrolysis via a small signal diode and why he was not getting just hydrogen evolving as he claimed, and he threw a wobbly. Massive tantrum and some bitching ensued.  He was really into my territory once he was talking of electrolysis, but would not accept that anyone else might know better than he did.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-61.html

I'm also no fan of his Spatial Energy Coherence, for the very reasons MH has stated.  It is very easy to want to protect your baby at all cost and forever after be blinded by reason or logic. I get the impression that the good Doc only sees what he wants to see.  Like Aaron on EF, the Doc likes to be the one in control... and it's not open to debate. I personally find him arrogant and patronising in the extreme.

While I'm at it, I don't particularly rate Lindemann either. Apart from the fact that he seems to be in bed with Aaron in that he endorses these 'I-know-it-all. I-am-the-Greatest-Intellect-in-the-Known-Universe - Just call me God' books of Aarons, I once saw the video of him explaining Meyer's WFC... and it was pants!
   
img  Hoppy
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #7 on: 2010-11-12, 17:02:43 »
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Hi Farrah & all,

I also agree with ION and you and would go so far as to say that its now very difficult to see any real attempt being made by the vast majority of mainstream FE forum members to properly measure and understand the observations being made experimentally. There is indeed a woeful lack of technical competence out there leading to the blind leading the blind up dark alleys. I have been openly critical that even John Bedini fails to support his many claims with any real science and gets very agitated as soon as anyone challenges him at a technical level.

Hoppy
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #8 on: 2010-11-12, 18:18:25 »
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There will always be a lack of competence on forums while moderators of the likes of Aaron (self-proclaimed Spiritual Leader) Murakami on EF, bans people for speaking up against utter drivell and challenging unsupported claims. It is my experience that Aaron, and indeed Hartmann on the OU forum, are quite happy to let unscientific clap-trap flourish at the expense of educated and intellectual input. Education aside, sometimes the total lack of everday commonsense is in itself quite bewildering. Remember the IST character on OU, and his 6000+ mindless posts. Hartmann banned me for speaking out about this guy, but happily let that illiterate idiot post garbage to his hearts content! Why?

I think most of us here have been banned from the other forums because we don't conform. Because we fail to readily accept things without question, because we insist on explanations and rationale, because we persist in speaking up against the constant onslaught of nonsensical posts, nonsense claims and utter stupidity. Because we think for ourselves and do not fall in line and follow like the rest of the sheep, we are deemed as trolls and trouble-makers and conveniently removed.  

It does rather make you wonder if the powers behind some of these forums have ulterior motives, as real science is often sadly lacking and certainly does not appear to be very high on their agendas.

Thankfully, this forum is different.
« Last Edit: 2010-11-16, 12:13:34 by Farrah Day »
   
img  MileHigh
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #9 on: 2010-11-12, 20:07:44 »
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Farrah and all:

There is indeed a woeful lack of technical competence as Hoppy said.  From watching Aaron closely through his Ainslie replication attempt, and from reading numerous postings by Stefan I know that neither of them is technically competent.  They both fail the litmus test.  I have had less exposure to Peter Lindemann, but from what I have seen I judge him to not be technically competent either.

IST assumed quite an online character, it became very annoying.  I know from watching a few of his clips very carefully that he was totally clueless.  That didn't stop the regulars in the Joule Thief threads from taking him seriously and treating him like a peer.  A case of the blind leading the blind.

Hoppy made reference to Bedini.  Bedini has never explained how an SSG really works.  As I said in another posting, that would stop the gravy train.

Among the electronics experimenters, there is another phenomenon in play.  Often people simply don't want to openly state their level of competence, knowledge, and experience.  They seem to believe that you can run down to Radio Shack and buy some components and start experimenting just like that.  They also have a strange self-invented language when it comes to electronic circuits and energy.  More than half the time I can't understand it, it's all gobbly-gook.  Sometimes I read conversations between experimenters and I am completely baffled.  Finally, often when you politely try to help an experimenter out and explain what's going on there is no response from the experimenter and they fall silent.  At least a "thank you" once in a while would be nice.

Life in Freedonia!

MileHigh
   
img  Hoppy
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #10 on: 2010-11-12, 21:03:40 »
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A bit off topic but as the Bedini SG energiser has been mentioned, I have taken the opportunity to post a 3-part article on how the SG works. This removes much of the myth surrounding the Bedini energiser. I take no credit for this article which was written by a friend of mine who with me has studied the SG and other Bedini devices over the last few years. Part 3 is currently unfinished.

Hoppy
   
img  MileHigh
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #11 on: 2010-11-12, 22:52:46 »
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Hoppy:

Thanks for the contribution.  I haven't had a chance to look at the docs yet but feel free to post them in the Bedini section of the forum.  As an exercise I deconstructed a lot of things Bedini myself and the threads are there.  I was hoping to get into some good debates with some Bedini enthusiasts but that didn't really materialize.

MileHigh
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #12 on: 2010-11-13, 00:22:10 »
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@milehigh
Quote
The whole shebang is based on the fact that high frequency AC power in the 10 MHz range will propagate along single wires and do other seemingly magical looking things.  Many times small stray capacitance elements in the various circuits will allow the transmission of decent amounts of power due to the fairly high frequencies that are being employed.  Even a very small capacitor or a stray capacitance can look like a near short-circuit at very high frequencies.

Im not sure you fully understand what is really happening, now ask yourself what property does high frequency AC possess that allows it to store energy as an electric field? It has nothing to do with the frequency of the alternating current or the alternating voltages and in fact the property is solely dictated by the rate of change or what we would call "slope" on our oscilloscopes. That is how fast the voltage rises and falls, I think it is quite comical that so many have been completely baffled by something which should be obvious ---- It is not the frequency at all it is the fact that as the frequency increases the voltage rise and fall time must decrease which is also an increase in the rate of change.
Unlike most I have proven this matter by experiment, in fact the same exact phenomena of HF AC can be reproduced with HF DC but you have to understand why it happens. You cannot just rectify HF AC to HF DC as the residual ionization between peaks dampens the rate of change, you must have the AC peaks add as one DC peak at half the frequency but which has the same rate of change or slope. You see the actual AC slope extends from the top of the (+) peak down to the bottom of the (-) peak and this represents the true rate of change per unit time. As well if you want to understand what Dr.Stiffler is really doing all you have to do is google electrostatic induction, he simply uses electrostatic induction to induce a voltage which must then diverge from its source through conduction, the term "Spatial Energy Coherence" is just to impress the girls.

Quote
That's why fluorescent light bulbs light up when you are holding them in your hand and aren't touching anything directly.  The stray capacitance completes the circuit and allows power to flow into the fluorescent tube.
I wonder how the circuit is completed when I light up a flourescent bulb 50 feet away utilizing only a single wire and pulsed DC in an ungrounded circuit? It seems very odd to me that we are told that electric and magnetic fields will always follow the shortest path of least resistance and yet the source is now 50 feet away so why would it return to complete the circuit when it is easier to dissipate completely in the load independent of the source.


While were on the subject of stray capacitance you never did answer my question----
Quote
Perhaps you can explain this for me----- what happens if there is no secondary induced current thus no secondary magnetic field to oppose the primary and load it? What happens if the secondary coil acts like an open secondary on induction by the primary but does not discharge the induced open circuit voltage until after all action of the primary magnetic field has ceased?
I don't blame you for not answering it because this is the point where conventional logic and theory tends to fall apart, my area of expertise.

Regards
AC



---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  MileHigh
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #13 on: 2010-11-13, 03:31:59 »
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AC:

With respect to high frequency AC:

Quote
what property does high frequency AC possess that allows it to store energy as an electric field?

Sorry, your statement doesn't make sense.  High frequency AC in and of itself does not store any energy.  If you rephrase the question I might be able to answer it.

Quote
It has nothing to do with the frequency of the alternating current or the alternating voltages and in fact the property is solely dictated by the rate of change or what we would call "slope" on our oscilloscopes. That is how fast the voltage rises and falls, I think it is quite comical that so many have been completely baffled by something which should be obvious ---- It is not the frequency at all it is the fact that as the frequency increases the voltage rise and fall time must decrease which is also an increase in the rate of change.

Yes, if you want to talk about the current through a capacitor then i = C dv/dt, where dv/dt is the slope of the voltage waveform with respect to time.  So the higher the frequency where v = sin(omega*t) you indeed get higher currents at higher frequencies.  However, frequencies are in fact used to calculate the impedance of a capacitor.  The impedance of a capacitor is Z = 1/(j*omega*C), so as omega gets higher the impedance of a capacitor gets lower.  The lower impedance will allow AC power to propagate through the capacitor into the load.  At very high frequencies the impedance of a capacitor approaches zero.

So you can look at the issue in the time domain where the instantaneous current through a capacitor is proportional to the slew rate of the AC signal.  If the AC voltage across the capacitor is sin(omega*t) then the current i = C * omega * cos(omega*t).  If you look at the issue in the frequency domain then you have to look at the overall circuit, where the impedance of the capacitor in the circuit is Z = 1/(j*omega*C).

Quote
Unlike most I have proven this matter by experiment, in fact the same exact phenomena of HF AC can be reproduced with HF DC but you have to understand why it happens. You cannot just rectify HF AC to HF DC as the residual ionization between peaks dampens the rate of change, you must have the AC peaks add as one DC peak at half the frequency but which has the same rate of change or slope. You see the actual AC slope extends from the top of the (+) peak down to the bottom of the (-) peak and this represents the true rate of change per unit time.

"HF DC" is an oxymoron so I am not really sure what you mean by that.  I have never heard the term "residual ionization between peaks" so I don't understand that either.  I don't understand the AC peaks and DC peak at half the frequency either.  "You see the actual AC slope extends from the top of the (+) peak down to the bottom of the (-) peak and this represents the true rate of change per unit time." - The rate of change of a sine wave is a cosine wave, so I can't relate that back to your discussion about the positive peak to the negative peak as being the true rate of change per unit time.  At the relatively high frequencies encountered in the SEC, you are typically dealing with true sine waves.  Therefore the slope of the sine wave is a cosine wave, because d(sin(omega*t))/dt) = omega * cos(omega*t).  The fact that the angular frequency omega is multiplied by the cos(omega*t) illustrates how the higher the frequency (and associated slew rate) you go, the higher the current is that flows through the capacitor.

Quote
As well if you want to understand what Dr.Stiffler is really doing all you have to do is google electrostatic induction, he simply uses electrostatic induction to induce a voltage which must then diverge from its source through conduction, the term "Spatial Energy Coherence" is just to impress the girls.

I am admittedly very rusty at this stuff but I can throw out some of the things that are in play.  I think that there are high-frequency electrostatic and magnetic induction phenomena going on, as well as high frequency AC voltage and current flowing through the interconnect wires.  At 10 MHz the wavelength in free space is 30 meters, about 100 feet.  So there are no transmission line effects going on.  Coils can couple magnetically and capacitive coupling takes place for the electrostatic phenomena, like fluorescent tubes lighting in your hand.  10 MHz going down a single wire will find some sort of a capacitive load to ground at the end of the wire to complete the circuit.   For the single wire lighting up a bank of LEDs 20 feet away, a simplified model for the the load at the end of the wire is the LEDs in series with a physical or stray capacitance to ground.  In some cases some sort of resonator setup will facilitate the transfer of energy through the single wire to make the bank of LEDs light up more brightly.  This is all Electromagnetics 101.

Quote
I wonder how the circuit is completed when I light up a flourescent bulb 50 feet away utilizing only a single wire and pulsed DC in an ungrounded circuit? It seems very odd to me that we are told that electric and magnetic fields will always follow the shortest path of least resistance and yet the source is now 50 feet away so why would it return to complete the circuit when it is easier to dissipate completely in the load independent of the source.

Partly answered above.  The generating side will have some sort of parasitic capacitance to ground and the terminating side will have some sort of parasitic capacitance to ground.  Between the two "grounds" there is some sort of conductive/capacitive link also.   The two separate grounds are not directly tied together.  Even through the circuit may be tenuous, for the low energy levels typically dealt with in the experiments it all works.  Also, "pulsed DC" is really an AC signal.

Quote
Perhaps you can explain this for me----- what happens if there is no secondary induced current thus no secondary magnetic field to oppose the primary and load it?

I am assuming that you are taking about a transformer.  When there is no secondary load on a transformer the transformer looks like a big inductor with a ferrite core on the primary side.

Quote
What happens if the secondary coil acts like an open secondary on induction by the primary but does not discharge the induced open circuit voltage until after all action of the primary magnetic field has ceased?
I don't blame you for not answering it because this is the point where conventional logic and theory tends to fall apart, my area of expertise.

Your question is not making sense.  You can't say, "discharge the induced open circuit voltage."  If the magnetic field is gone then there is no voltage on the secondary.

MileHigh
   
img  muDped
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #14 on: 2010-12-04, 04:17:04 »

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Quote
It has nothing to do with the frequency of the alternating current or the alternating voltages and in fact the property is solely dictated by the rate of change or what we would call "slope" on our oscilloscopes. That is how fast the voltage rises and falls, I think it is quite comical that so many have been completely baffled by something which should be obvious ---- It is not the frequency at all it is the fact that as the frequency increases the voltage rise and fall time must decrease which is also an increase in the rate of change.

There may be some food for thought here.  The magnitude of the
excursions will determine how much power is present.  High voltage
alternations, even at a relatively low frequency, produce an extended
range of "effect" commensurate with the peak-to-peak amplitude.

Quote
You cannot just rectify HF AC to HF DC as the residual ionization between peaks dampens the rate of change, you must have the AC peaks add as one DC peak at half the frequency but which has the same rate of change or slope.

As is done in the Half-Wave Voltage Doubler configuration.

Quote
...in fact the same exact phenomena of HF AC can be reproduced with HF DC but you have to understand why it happens
.

In the old days we used to call this an "undulating current."  It's
the type of signal produced in a carbon microphone telephone circuit
or in any amplifier which is DC operated.

Although, in the Time Domain Reflectometer a pulsed DC signal is used
to measure transient propagation time and hence, distance.

Yes, food for thought...


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  Loner
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #15 on: 2010-12-04, 07:45:41 »
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I am sorry, as I have not read the entire thread yet, but I had to make a comment on something that was stated.

Pulsed DC IS NOT AC, nor are they anything the same.  No EE with any knowledge would say such a thing, unless describing something other than standard electron current, as described in the books.

For the simplest terms, DC means One way, whether pulsing or not.  AC means BOTH ways.  The dV/dt is a separate concept, and these two items cannot be confused, or one is not correctly analyzing the circuitry.  Simple example:  Pulsing DC going through a cap will only pass until the cap is charged, where AC can "Continuously" pass through.  I hope I'm not confusing the issue for those not too involved, and now I'll read the entire thread so I can understand what I have missed.

My apologies for the intrusion, as this must be off-topic.
   
img  muDped
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #16 on: 2010-12-04, 19:52:56 »

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"Both ways" can be a relative concept.

Every periodic waveform has an "AC component" which is
capable of being separated from any underlying DC.

A pulsed DC signal is very rich in numerous AC harmonics.

To my way of thinking your "intrusion" is most welcome.

If any contribution to a discussion has the potential to add to
further understanding of the principal topic, then I'd say it is "on-topic."

I could never understand the insistence of some to keep a
discussion narrowly focused.  People just don't "think" that
way...   Our minds are amazingly amazing.

Maybe it's more about "control" than edification...



---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  MileHigh
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #17 on: 2010-12-04, 20:23:17 »
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Loner:

Quote
Pulsed DC IS NOT AC, nor are they anything the same.  No EE with any knowledge would say such a thing, unless describing something other than standard electron current, as described in the books.

Pulsed DC is definitely AC.  If you are talking about a square wave type of signal, with the high and low level outputs being at a low output impedance, it can be broken down into a series of AC sine waves at different frequencies with a potential DC bias component in the signal.  We are talking about standard electron current.

A pulsed DC source with a low output impedance for the high level and and an open-circuit output impedance for the "low" level is still an AC source but the nature of the waveform would depend on the nature of the load.  You can assume that it would still be an AC signal.

The precise nature of the signal was not described so the low output impedance for both high and low output levels was assumed.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2010-12-04, 21:10:29 by MileHigh »
   
img  poynt99
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #18 on: 2010-12-04, 21:44:31 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Hmm,

I have to agree with Loner here.

Strictly speaking, pulsed-DC is not an alternating current. Assuming the circuit is completely DC-coupled and with no inductive components, the current never changes direction, and therefore never "alternates". It simply "flows" in one direction , then is OFF, ad infinitum.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #19 on: 2010-12-04, 21:57:09 »
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@dumped
Quote
Every periodic waveform has an "AC component" which is capable of being separated from any underlying DC.

Does a soliton wave have an AC component? I was under the impression that what separates the soliton wave from others was the fact that it cannot cross the zero boundary nor reverse thus has no AC component. This is the problem with making absolute statements as it only takes one exception to any law or rule to render it invalid.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #20 on: 2010-12-04, 22:03:40 »
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I too tend to agree with Loner on this.

Consider a simple series dc circuit. A battery, a switch and a lamp.

Switching the switch on and off simply interrupts the current flow and is surely effectively pulsed dc in its purest form. I see no way that this can be interpreted as AC. It is either on or off, there is no reversal of current flow, hence no AC element.

Just my two-penneth.
   
img  poynt99
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #21 on: 2010-12-04, 22:39:47 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: allcanadian on 2010-12-04, 21:57:09
@dumped
Does a soliton wave have an AC component? I was under the impression that what separates the soliton wave from others was the fact that it cannot cross the zero boundary nor reverse thus has no AC component. This is the problem with making absolute statements as it only takes one exception to any law or rule to render it invalid.
Regards
AC

By the same token, it could be argued that a soliton is neither a "wave form", nor "periodic".

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  BEP
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #22 on: 2010-12-04, 22:50:23 »
Group: Guest
You folks may not believe this but this argument is relatively new (relative to someone my age  ;) ).

If we wish to stand on the shoulders of greater technical gurus then the answer is simple.

Alternating Current refers to current that alternates polarity (zero crossing for the newbies).
Direct Current refers to current 'directly' to the load - or- doesn't detour by changing directions on the way. This isn't very clear unless you consider the following:

If you read through some of the really old IEEE publications and others in the late 1800's there is no question. Early on many still thought of 'current' to be like fluid under pressure travelling through pipes. I remember reading about a presentation of one of the founders of the IEEE describing DC as always between zero and a positive pressure with AC alternating between positive and negative pressure.

The one thing that seems to trip us up is when someone uses Hertz as a description for DC. If it pulses zero to one side of zero it is not CPS or Hz, it is PR or PRF (Pulse Rate [Frequency]).

I think folks started to let the definitions slide about when that nasty little bugger, the switch mode power supply, became common.

Since then, if someone calls DC with an AC component AC... I just let it slide and try to remember their misunderstanding next time I speak to them.


Describing Solitons is another issue for another thread. Folks describe what they see on the scope an' that ain't all of it. That is just the transverse component of a compression wave, using more common terms. I think a better description of what is seen on a scope is actually the acceleration of a velocity wave.

There, that should start a good argument  ;D
 
   
img  Microcontroller
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #23 on: 2010-12-04, 23:13:12 »
Group: Guest
Pulsed DC is nowhere near AC !  :)

Correct Polarity never changes.

According to mister Dollard it can be divided into FOUR distinct categories:

1. Continuous  Currents (DC) Time function = Zero.
2. Alternating Currents (AC) Time function,Radians/Second.
3. Impuse Currents (IC) Time function,Nepers/Second.
4. Oscillating Currents (OC) Time function,Neper-Radians/Second.

The Continuous Currents represent the Continuous time invariant,or scalar,component of the generalized electric wave.

The Alternating Currents represent the Continuous cyclic variation component of the wave.

The Impulse Currents represent the discontinuous or acyclic component of the wave.

The Oscillating Currents represent alternating Currents that grow or decay with respect to time, thus being a combination of cyclic & acyclic variation.

The Continuous Current can be resolved into a pair of superimposed Impulse Currents, one impulse growing in amplitude with respect to time, representing the production of energy, The other impulse decaying in amplitude with respect to time, representing the consumption of electric energy.
If the two rates are equal, The result wave is a Direct or Continuous Current.

Likewise, an Alternating Current can be resolved into a pair of superimposed Oscillating Currents, one oscillation growing in amplitude with respect to time,representing the production of electric energy, The other oscillation decaying in amplitude with respect to time, representing the consumption of electric energy.
If the two rates are equal & opposite, and the two amplitudes unequal,The resulting wave is an Alternating Current.

 :)
   
img  MileHigh
Re: DrStiffler's exotic generator. « Reply #24 on: 2010-12-04, 23:44:10 »
Group: Guest
"Alternating" current does not necessarily mean the current has to change direction.  In the same sense "alternating" voltage does not necessarily mean that the voltage has to go above zero and below zero.  In both cases the current or voltage is changing with respect to time and that means "AC" from a circuit perspective.

If you feed a pulse train that varies between zero volts and +1 volt, or zero amps and +1 amps, and this is connected to a circuit that includes capacitors and inductors, the capacitors and inductors will react to the AC components in the pulse train.

Any signal, be it a current or voltage signal, can be broken down into a DC component and an AC component(s).

So, however you want to define "pulsed DC" there are going to be AC components in the pulsed DC signal.

For Farah's example:

Quote
Switching the switch on and off simply interrupts the current flow and is surely effectively pulsed dc in its purest form. I see no way that this can be interpreted as AC. It is either on or off, there is no reversal of current flow, hence no AC element.

I covered the issue of no reversal or current flow, it's still AC if you assume that the load itself pulls the signal towards ground when the switch is off.  However, this is a strange "signal" because it is not always there.  It appears and then disappears.

Microcontroller:

You should consider what I said, that any signal can be broken down into its DC and AC components.  Dollard's view of signals is unnecessarily complicated.

MileHigh
   
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