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OverUnity Research > Pulsed / Radiant Energy > Gray's Devices (Moderator: Spokane 1) > Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology
2024-11-26, 23:24:01
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Author Topic: Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology  (Read 4980 times)
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img  Allcanadian
Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology « on: 2021-04-16, 03:23:38 »
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Copied from my posts on OU.com

In my experiments I found there is no real difference between splitting the (+) or the (-). So while some like Gray split the (+) even more inventors like Tesla, Carlos Benitez, Hendershot were splitting the (-).

Splitting the (+) is a series circuit configuration where a higher (+) polarity is discharged into a lower (+) polarity. So we place two 12v batteries in series for 24v and connect the (+)24v terminal to the (+) terminal of another 12v battery and connect the negative terminals together. This gives us 24v series minus the reversed 12v battery for a true circuit voltage of 12v.

(-)12v(+)----(-)12v(+)--<<<<<<--(+)12v(-),   Note >>> is the electron current.

The real question is why do it, what is the benefit?.

This concept is difficult for most people because they can understand concepts like voltage, current and power however the concept of Energy is generally foreign to them. Think of it this way, if I place a resistor in series with a battery the energy tends to dissipate in the resistor as heat and not the battery because it forms a circuit node in the resistor. However if I shorted the battery with a heavy bar the node is now within the battery which overheats and tends to explode. As such energy nodes are formed in every circuit where opposite (+) and (-) polarities merge and energy is transformed, nodes can concentrate or dissipate energy.

Now if we split the positives and short the connection between the 24v(+) and the 12v(+) terminals the circuit node is now within the 12v battery which charges rapidly. So even with a dead short in the system at worst were recharging the 12v battery versus generating heat elsewhere. As such, splitting like polarities is a simple way to increase efficiency and reduce I^2R losses by controlling where energy dissipates within a circuit.

There is much more to it because these nodes where energy can either dissipate or concentrate can become motional within a circuit. However these advanced concepts are far beyond the scope of this conversation.

Regards
AC
« Last Edit: 2021-04-16, 16:30:35 by Allcanadian »


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology « Reply #1 on: 2021-04-16, 03:24:11 »
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I didn't know Gray had used this kind of black box configuration which sounds very similar to many other devices. Most inventors tend to distract from the actual process involved which is why many FE replicators only concentrating on his conversion tube failed to produce the results they wanted. The Benitez patents which "split the negative" describe what Gray was doing in much more detail and don't use a conversion tube which is not required.

So FE researchers need to be aware that most patents are loaded with "red herring" attributes. Some include a black box or special conversion tube or special triode tube or multi-alloy valve or specific conductor lengths configured or wound in strange ways which is basically nonsense meant to distract.

The actual process or effect is so simple it's almost comical and patented by Tesla in his radiant energy patent...US685958A, Method of utilizing radiant energy.

Simply put, when a plate, tube or any object is placed near a spark gap producing a "Volt Arc Discharge" or VAD it produces the "photoelectric effect" on said object. So it's kind of like a poor man's solar cell without all the fancy materials, band gaps and such which we can manufacture for next to nothing. The hard UV and other radiation from the VAD strips the collector plate/tube of electrons utilizing the photoelectric effect to drive any load while also recharging it's source. The masters like Tesla, T.H.Moray and Chernetskii knew this well before gray, where do you think he got the idea from?...

So we split the (+) or (-) from two sources to ensure our conduction energy is conserved while also producing a VAD or radiant event. Then we extract additional energy from the VAD or radiant event using the photoelectric effect to drive a load and also recharge our source. As many inventors claimed, even a child could understand it, because everything we really need to know can be found in any grade school science textbook.

There lies the key, knowledge and understanding of how nature works or simply put ... science.

As well I'm disclosing this technology because it's already obsolete and a VAD isn't actually required to produce the desired effects. Imagine that this is basically a completely unknown area of science which is already obsolete. In fact, it became obsolete before it even got started...

Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Chet K
Re: Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology « Reply #2 on: 2021-04-17, 14:48:17 »
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AllCanadian
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Simply put, when a plate, tube or any object is placed near a spark gap producing a "Volt Arc Discharge" or VAD it produces the "photoelectric effect" on said object. So it's kind of like a poor man's solar cell without all the fancy materials, band gaps and such which we can manufacture for next to nothing. The hard UV and other radiation from the VAD strips the collector plate/tube of electrons utilizing the photoelectric effect to drive any load while also recharging it's source. The masters like Tesla, T.H.Moray and Chernetskii knew this well before gray, where do you think he got the idea from?...
End quote

So many have played with spark gaps
And many would clear off the bench and make room to try an experiment?

Would be amazing to harvest excess energy in such a simple way?

Can you make a circuit suggestion?

Thx
Chet
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology « Reply #3 on: 2021-04-17, 16:19:28 »
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Chet
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So many have played with spark gaps
And many would clear off the bench and make room to try an experiment?
Can you make a circuit suggestion?

If you look at the Gray circuit you will notice he has two sources feeding his spark gap ie, splitting the positive. One source is HV charging a few HV caps on the bottom electrode and the other source low voltage from a battery on the top electrode.

Below is a circuit many should recognize from the "water fuel plasma spark plug" threads years ago which is almost identical to Gray's. The electrical discharges from these circuits can be explosive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voSp9qQH14g

Link for different circuit designs.
Panacea....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAqG27_1MQA

As always, if our circuits cannot do something fundamentally different then the result cannot be different.

Regards
AC








---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  hermes
Re: Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology « Reply #4 on: 2021-04-21, 11:55:10 »
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Hi everyone,

I have experimented today and made a great discovery that has to do with the Edwin V. Gray capacitor discharge motor.

Take two 4700 uF / 25 volt capacitors. Connect them in parallel so that you get 9400 uF / 25 volts and charge them with 9 volts from a 9 volt battery. Take an electromagnet whose one end attracts a permanent magnet. Connect a 3 amp diode in series with the capacitor and connect the diode and capacitor to the electromagnet. Check how far the permanent magnet fires.

Connect 2 4700 uF / 25 volt capacitors in series so that you get 2350 uF / 50 volts and charge them with two 9 volt batteries in series, so the total voltage is 18 volts. Take an electromagnet whose one end attracts a permanent magnet. Connect a 3 amp diode in series with the capacitor and connect the diode and capacitor to the electromagnet. Check how far the permanent magnet fires.

By entering the values in the following capacitor energy calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/capacitor-energy

You get the current charge and the energy charge and can calculate how far the permanent magnet is fired. Is that in line with the theory?

You will find more information on my Edwin V. Gray page that I have made today: http://gratisenergi.se/gray.htm

Best Wishes, Hermes  :)
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology « Reply #5 on: 2021-04-21, 18:09:56 »
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Beyond the context of FE, Tesla and Gray wanted to find the most efficient way to drive an inductance or electric motor.

We know that if we move energy at a low voltage/high current we invoke large I2R losses as heat. However as we start raising the voltage the current drops and we lose less energy.

The two capacitor paradox is a good experiment and it proves that if we try to balance the energy on C1 with C2 we lose half the energy. However if we add an inductance in between C1-C2 we can retain most of the energy. If we raise the voltage on C1 and switch the inductance very fast we can retain even more energy as the efficiency approaches 100%. Thus we can see that the properties of the energy in question and the way in which it moves matters.

All of these inventors found the most efficient way to transfer electrical energy and power a load is with very high voltage impulses for the reasons explained above.

For example, suppose I have a 4v lipo battery and I want to transfer it's energy to you on the other side of the room. We will use a few examples...
1)If I charge a capacitor to 4v from the battery, then discharge the cap through a small wire to another cap where you are I can expect to lose around 70% of the energy in the process.
2)If I discharge a small amount of energy from the battery as an impulse into an inductor then send the inductive discharge down the wire to charge a cap where you are we can expect to lose around 5%.
3)However if I simply threw the battery to you I would lose no electrical energy.

What have we learned?... The greater the energy density and impulsive the flow the greater the efficiency.

In nature we do not see magnets whirling past coils of wire or large low potential currents dissipating as heat. These primitive concepts are completely foreign to nature which always tends to find the path of least resistance. Follow the path of least resistance like nature and it will eventually lead to the understanding of how to power a load without dissipating all the input energy within it... Free Energy.

Regards
AC








---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  poynt99
Re: Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology « Reply #6 on: 2021-04-21, 19:21:35 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: hermes on 2021-04-21, 11:55:10
Hi everyone,

I have experimented today and made a great discovery that has to do with the Edwin V. Gray capacitor discharge motor.

Take two 4700 uF / 25 volt capacitors. Connect them in parallel so that you get 9400 uF / 25 volts and charge them with 9 volts from a 9 volt battery. Take an electromagnet whose one end attracts a permanent magnet. Connect a 3 amp diode in series with the capacitor and connect the diode and capacitor to the electromagnet. Check how far the permanent magnet fires.

Connect 2 4700 uF / 25 volt capacitors in series so that you get 2350 uF / 50 volts and charge them with two 9 volt batteries in series, so the total voltage is 18 volts. Take an electromagnet whose one end attracts a permanent magnet. Connect a 3 amp diode in series with the capacitor and connect the diode and capacitor to the electromagnet. Check how far the permanent magnet fires.

By entering the values in the following capacitor energy calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/capacitor-energy

You get the current charge and the energy charge and can calculate how far the permanent magnet is fired. Is that in line with the theory?

You will find more information on my Edwin V. Gray page that I have made today: http://gratisenergi.se/gray.htm

Best Wishes, Hermes  :)
Hi Hermes, and welcome.

With regards to the above experiment, what were your results and conclusions?

I'm not sure one can calculate the distance a PM will travel in each case, but I would guess that the two distances will not be the same, even though the stored energy is equal in both cases.

If however the energy was discharged into a resistor, I believe the resistor would dissipate the same energy in each case. Agreed?


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  hermes
Re: Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology « Reply #7 on: 2021-04-22, 03:50:11 »
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Hi poynt99,

The result was that the capacitors that were charged with 18 volts fired the permanent magnet longer than with 9 volts. I think this is because the current is double with 18 volts compared to 9 volts. The strength of an electromagnet depends on the ampereturns. Increasing the current increases the magnetic strength of the same electromagnet.

Yes, I agree that the same amount of energy is discharged through the resistor of 9400 uf / 9 volts as with 2350 uf / 18 volts.

Best Wishes, Hermes.  :)

P.S The wire diameter is 0.1 mm. Iron core diameter 8 mm. The outer diameter of the coil is 13 mm and the coil is 26 mm long. DC resistance 34 ohms and inductance 23.5 mH. The coils were pre-wound on plastic bobbins from three 101 experiment kits. Do not know the outer diameter of plastic bobbins.  Inner diameter of the plastic bobbins were 8 mm. and I do not know how many turns the electromagnet is made of.

 
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Edwin Gray/Tesla FE technology « Reply #8 on: 2021-04-23, 05:43:13 »
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The result was that the capacitors that were charged with 18 volts fired the permanent magnet longer than with 9 volts. I think this is because the current is double with 18 volts compared to 9 volts. The strength of an electromagnet depends on the ampereturns. Increasing the current increases the magnetic strength of the same electromagnet.

We could think of it this way...
1)If we had X energy at 0.5v and powered the coil it wouldn't move the magnet but would heat up the wire.
2)If we had X energy at 9v it would give the the magnet a little kick.
3)If we had X energy at 18v it gives it a greater kick.

The energy is the same however the time in which it discharges is not and the smaller the time period the greater the flow of energy or current.

Tesla and Gray charged capacitors to high voltages which could discharge all there energy in very small time frames. As Tesla said, his HV capacitor discharges had almost the same energy as explosives. In fact we could compare the effects to combustion. If we slowly released X combustion energy as a slowly burning camp fire the results are pleasing. However if we released the same energy in 1/1,000,000th the time it's an explosion and all hell breaks loose.

It was the completely different effects when energy is released very rapidly producing shock waves that these inventors were after.

Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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