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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #125 on: 2010-12-26, 16:06:11 »
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CP2012

Good work on the TPU fakery stuff!  You have certainly done your homework.

 I have written a lot about this and done a few experiments that proved to me that the first TPU and the garage TPU could easily have been faked. Others could also have been faked if you are clever enough. I will see if I can dig them up and post them here.

We concur that there are many ways to fake the various TPU's.

But that does not mean they were. They may have served their intended purpose, as you say, to appear to be fakes.

I look forward to your next post. Thank you for your work and sharing with us.


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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #126 on: 2010-12-27, 14:11:55 »
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HI ALL
This posting is how the illusion is done it applies to the garage tpu,I will post that maybe tomorrow.
Another thing in 1996 there were a lot of sealed lead acid batteries you could get from radio shack,all sizes and shapes ,different amp ratings.The battery I'm using is a fairly large one but a much smaller one will work,it only has to light the light for a very short time,sealed lead acid batteries can do this with no problem.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #127 on: 2010-12-27, 16:38:27 »

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What about the TPU's that you consider to be "real"?
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #128 on: 2010-12-27, 16:46:07 »
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CP2012

Good work as usual.

I had previously considered the shorted outlet scenario, but also thought a small electromechanical or solid state relay could be used in the lamp bases as a pilot control device.

This way if he was asked to plug it into a normal outlet it would still appear as if the power was coming from the outlet.

Only a few mA at 80 to 120 VAC or DC would be required to activate the relay. A small boost converter in the TPU would supply the command signal to the relay.

For this device, a real test by SM would have been a light bulb directly connected to the TPU and left on for a good length of time that would preclude the use of batteries.

Better than light bulbs would be a red hot heating element, such as toaster wire or screw in ceramic infra red heater element.


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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #129 on: 2010-12-27, 17:11:49 »
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to GRUMPY
Only the 15 inch,17 inch all 6 inch tpu's,the one in
the office are real.The garage tpu is fake the 4 inch tpu is fake.
To sell a product to  greedy people you must make them think
that they will corner the  market

TO ION

You can go the relay way,however this was a one shot deal,record it once,and thats it.The purpose was to get the investors excited,watch the video on the garage tpu ,in one part SM is asked by the cameraman is there batteries,I think he knew there were. Theres an interesting thing in the garage tpu video that was missed i will post that too.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #130 on: 2010-12-27, 17:44:42 »

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Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2010-12-27, 17:11:49
to GRUMPY
Only the 15 inch,17 inch all 6 inch tpu's,the one in
the office are real.The garage tpu is fake the 4 inch tpu is fake.
To sell a product to  greedy people you must make them think
that they will corner the  market

TO ION

You can go the relay way,however this was a one shot deal,record it once,and thats it.The purpose was to get the investors excited,watch the video on the garage tpu ,in one part SM is asked by the cameraman is there batteries,I think he knew there were. Theres an interesting thing in the garage tpu video that was missed i will post that too.


OK, taking the "hard right" over the "easy left": all working TPU's have a rather "tall" cross section.  The open ones clearly have two circular wire arrangements of some sort, spaced apart a few inches, which coincides with the tall cross-section of the larger ones, but the larger TPU's have these circular arrangements covered by a toroidal winding or vertical wires.

The open TPU, which do not have the outer winding/wires, will turn off when flipped over.  The most obvious vertical-oriented force that does not flip when you flip your TPU is "gravity".  Perhaps the need for this force was satisfied in the larger units by another force, such as a magnetic field.

Our two stacked/spaced circular arrangements could be series or parallel individual induction sections.   The outer winding/wires of the larger units would then apply to all collectors inside. 

Wow! This is looking easier than I thought.  I hate winding toroids, but if it gets it to rotate, so be it.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #131 on: 2010-12-27, 22:28:56 »

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CP2012 showed that the magnetic field at the gap of SM17 is DC.  So, when SM said that a compass rotated when in the middle of the TPU, which TPU was he talking about?  and did it rotate because of a magnetic field or an electric field?
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #132 on: 2010-12-28, 11:09:31 »
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Hi All
Here are a few things that shows that the garage tpu can
not be used
 as a reference for the construction of a tpu.On the video
SM tested the garage tpu without the outlet box,he forgot to turn off a lamp.
Something that looks like an arc will be seen in the small square below
 where he tests the voltage output.I think it has to do with the inverter drawing more power
at start up,with the light on.Could it be a reflection?Another thing that signals that its fake is
the voltage output 91.3 only drops to 91.2 with a load of 120 watts,yet the 6 inch unit had
a big voltage drop with a 100 watt load.
Its almost like the voltage monitored is not hooked up to the output that's what I think is happening.
Remember sealed lead acid batteries were easy to get in 1996 in all sizes and will fit in the lamps with no trouble.The inverter from radio shack will also fit in the lamps with no trouble.
The next post will be on the 4 inch tpu.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #133 on: 2010-12-28, 13:16:02 »
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It is fascinationg how much quality effort people go to to make their case for the contrary.

And how no effort is put towards experimenting with the actual light speed electron devices that the inventor"alegedly" said to use to begin with.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #134 on: 2010-12-28, 13:30:18 »
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Hi,
The megawatt or so running through a heavy cable causing it to 'jump' when power is initially switched through it.
Just one example.
Have you heard any reasonable explanation for this? There's lots of speculation though, including the possibility SM's devices utilised this.
Steve.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #135 on: 2010-12-28, 14:46:36 »
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Quote from: gridbias on 2010-12-28, 13:16:02
It is fascinationg how much quality effort people go to to make their case for the contrary.

And how no effort is put towards experimenting with the actual light speed electron devices that the inventor"alegedly" said to use to begin with.

Regarding the first statement, this is part of the "due diligence" that everyone should consider. I commend CP2012 for putting the time and effort into this.

As for the second part, how do you know what is being done that is not yet reported here? Your "no effort" statement holds "no water", it is an assumption. There some are people here that are old hands working with vacuum tubes, have a lot of experience and are just not reporting any anomalies yet.

Your statement carries with it the implication that you know something through a direct experience of the effects SM mentioned. This posture seems familiar to me somehow. Do we know you under a different name?

We welcome your "light speed electron research" here.


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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #136 on: 2010-12-28, 14:53:04 »
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Quote from: szaxx on 2010-12-28, 13:30:18
Hi,
The megawatt or so running through a heavy cable causing it to 'jump' when power is initially switched through it.
Just one example.
Have you heard any reasonable explanation for this? There's lots of speculation though, including the possibility SM's devices utilised this.
Steve.

There are strong repulsive or attractive forces between conductors depending on the direction of current flow. I have experimented with this.

If you are referring to a different force, not based on mutual attraction, repulsion, or interaction with earths low level magnetic field, please elaborate further.


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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #137 on: 2010-12-28, 15:26:23 »

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Quote from: gridbias on 2010-12-28, 13:16:02
It is fascinationg how much quality effort people go to to make their case for the contrary.

And how no effort is put towards experimenting with the actual light speed electron devices that the inventor"alegedly" said to use to begin with.

Sounds like a "Mannix Comment".  "Light speed electron devices" sounds like a reference to tubes rather than a different means of induction as SM stated at the end of the UEC video.   I don't see you experimenting towards that.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #138 on: 2010-12-28, 15:34:12 »

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Quote from: szaxx on 2010-12-28, 13:30:18
Hi,
The megawatt or so running through a heavy cable causing it to 'jump' when power is initially switched through it.
Just one example.
Have you heard any reasonable explanation for this? There's lots of speculation though, including the possibility SM's devices utilised this.
Steve.

When a circuit is first turned on, two electric fields, one positive and one negative, propagate from the power source through the circuit.  Nipher and Jefimenko researched this and both photographed the electric fields.  (Nipher with photographic plates and Jefimenko with grass seeds.  The electric field does not go away with DC circuits as most assume it does.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #139 on: 2010-12-28, 16:37:17 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
CP2012,

You should know that there is no leg in the front of the OTPU, but your "hiddenbatteries" photo indicates otherwise. This is the right quadrant of the device.

Please don't argue with this, as I have stared at that device longer than I care to admit. In fact, what IS there exactly where one would expect a leg to be, appears to be a common shiny-boxed line filter, in a horizontal position. Interestingly, this is where the power output to the bulbs is. Something very similar to this:



Also, there is no leg in the top quadrant. The "leg support" for this quadrant is provided by a circuit board.

The left side has a wood leg, but it has a coil or transformer taped (green) to it. The bottom has a wood leg in plain sight.

.99


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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #140 on: 2010-12-28, 17:23:29 »

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I notice, as have others, that the bifilar coil (zip cord?) appears to have the ends soldered and there also appears to be another connection next to it.

Also, the winding is not exactly radial, it has a slight angle to it.

Also, the four zip cord windings appear equally spaced and rather "flat".  Did the open tpu turn off when flipped? (I'm going through the video now.)  In later TPU's the cross-section is taller, not flat and wide.  I wonder is SM has several "collectors" in the wide space inside the zip cord coils...
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #141 on: 2010-12-28, 17:41:35 »
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It is amazing how often the 'battery in the leg', micro-switches & false wall outlet idea reoccurs.

I know. I did the same thing about 4 years ago.

CP2012,

I commend you on your due diligence but that should also include reading the first few posts on this thread. As is now, when those TPU demonstrations took place there was no battery combination capable of delivering the power for the length of time, as witnessed and reported by individuals with excellent credentials.

IMO: The open TPU was certainly no more a fake than any other TPU. I very seriously doubt there are batteries in any TPU except possibly the one labeled the FTPU and the small one around 4 inches in diameter.
 
Grumpy,

Attached is a detail I drew some years ago showing the likelihood that what you call 'zip cord' is actually common 300 Ohm twin transmission line, also just as available at R.S.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #142 on: 2010-12-28, 17:46:28 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
CP2012,

The one issue that I will concede may lend some credence to your notion of the OTPU being a "fake", and that goes against the general coil arrangement concept of SM's devices, is that in the OTPU, there does not appear to be two coil windings orthogonal to one another.

However, the green taped coil/transformer and the highly-obscured top quadrant of the device, may provide for the apparently-required orthogonal windings relative to the obvious toroidal winding.

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #143 on: 2010-12-28, 19:19:18 »
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Gentlemen:

I  think everyone's input is valuable and we should consider and save it all as "information". While CP2012 is saying "here is how these particular devices could be faked", he is not saying all or any were indeed faked.

Back in the gn0sis forum days we covered many of these scenario's quite extensively. It is good to see a member actually carrying out with real experiment the things we mused about.

CP2012 has done a fine job of demonstrating how a couple of devices "could" be faked.

 We all agree that Roland Schinzinger was no slouch when it comes to Electrical Engineering and if his reports are real, that is good enough for me to believe at least two or three of these devices worked as claimed.

Whether some of the devices were a ruse to throw off a few people is also possible.

G:
We see the soldered ends of zipcord in at least one other TPU, as pointed out in the beginning of the "reverse engineering" thread.


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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #144 on: 2010-12-28, 19:36:47 »
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To ION
          You can not prove anything only show its possible give whats in 1996 that could be used to fake a tpu.If its shown that it could be done, then using that tpu as a reference is not a good idea.
I have made 6 inch fake tpu's you will see one soon, as soon as I finish the 4 inch tpu post.You can light a 25 watt bulb using 1996 technology,very hard to do a 100 watt bulb,I can do that too and have.You can't run the 100 watt bulb for long even then so the 6 inch tpu has to be real.
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #145 on: 2010-12-28, 19:43:41 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: ION on 2010-12-28, 19:19:18
Gentlemen:

While CP2012 is saying "here is how these particular devices could be faked", he is not saying all or any were indeed faked.

CP2012 has done a fine job of demonstrating how a couple of devices "could" be faked.

I would have to disagree about what CP2012 has indeed said. Below are 3 instances where he says all were faked except 3 units.


Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2010-11-07, 00:20:51
My theory is only 3 of the devices are real, the rest are fake, the 6 inch tpu, real, the one in the lab setting, real, the big tpu, real.
The reason for faking them is to show that the device can be scaled,it can't because SM doesn't know how it works.
The video where the tpu powers the drill, vacuum cleaner and tv is a fake, the 6 inch tpu is real but it doesn't power the
the tv,drill or vacuum cleaner.

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2010-12-27, 17:11:49
to GRUMPY
Only the 15 inch, 17 inch all 6 inch tpu's , the one in the office are real. The garage tpu is fake the 4 inch tpu is fake.

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2010-11-07, 02:08:44
Wattsup made the wrong conclusion that all tpu's are fake 3 are not...

What is to be gained by devising ways some of SM's devices could be faked, when indeed there is belief that at least 3 are not faked? For goodness sake, focus on those 3 then and quit wasting time and effort on the others.

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #146 on: 2010-12-28, 20:26:01 »
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Quote
What is to be gained by devising ways a device could be faked, when indeed there is belief that at least 3 are not faked? For goodness sake, focus on those 3 then and quit wasting time and effort on the others.

.99

I would agree with .99 ... 
And I would really like to know if there is a working prototype anywhere for the TPU, or workable designs, or if Steven Mark "sold out" to a big company or what...
Anyone?
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #147 on: 2010-12-28, 20:38:22 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2010-12-28, 19:43:41
I would have to disagree about what CP2012 has indeed said. Below are 3 instances where he says all were faked except 3 units.


What is to be gained by devising ways some of SM's devices could be faked, when indeed there is belief that at least 3 are not faked? For goodness sake, focus on those 3 then and quit wasting time and effort on the others.

.99

I stand corrected and properly chastised.......I thought I remember him saying early on "this is how they could have been faked", then it was later changed to "were faked". mea culpa

I personally have discounted the validity of the first unit and the garage unit to some degree. But these are not what Schinzinger tested


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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #148 on: 2010-12-28, 20:39:30 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: ION on 2010-12-28, 20:38:22
I stand corrected and properly chastised.......I thought I remember him saying this is how they could have been faked, then it was later changed to "were faked".

 :D

Don't worry, I hurt myself making that post ;)

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Re: The TPU: Was It Real ? « Reply #149 on: 2010-12-28, 20:41:07 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2010-12-28, 20:26:01
I would agree with .99 ...  
And I would really like to know if there is a working prototype anywhere for the TPU, or workable designs, or if Steven Mark "sold out" to a big company or what...
Anyone?


Prof,

Perhaps the attached may answer some of your questions.  I was once username "z_p_e".

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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