I watched the video and found it quite interesting.
My interpretation of the vibrating plates is that this results mainly from the magnetic attraction and repulsion between the plates and the oscillating magnetic field produced by the E-core transformer. That is why Mookie mentions that the effect disappears with non-ferrous plates. It's a simple and basic interaction. Mookie did not mention any numbers so it is difficult to say how much 12V current he is using, unless I missed that. Nonetheless, that is a static field, and it's effect would mainly be to make the vibration lop-sided rather than symmetrical. The jar is being slammed against the transformer and hence the loud clanking noise. As the electrodes are secured to the jar, the jar will move in concert with the electrodes. All pretty standard stuff.
However, the interesting part is how, with the addition of this vibration in the plate electrodes, the LPM rate seems to increase quite a bit. This is great and interesting research, however no one as far as I've read has asked the hard question yet: How much power is going into that transformer electromagnet?
Obviously no advantage will have been obtained if one can achieve the same LPM rate simply by applying that extra power to the cell electrodes directly.
If it ends up that there is no real advantage going this route, it still makes for interesting research, and may open up some new avenues to pursue in the never-ending goal to break Faraday's law.
.99
It seems like Mookie is about to disappear for a time, which is a shame, but I’m not overly concerned as I have all I need to know in order to follow this up with some conclusive experimentation.
.99, I too feel it is important to know whether or not the electrolyser oscillates if it is not in direct contact with the EM, at least this way we could eliminate direct physical vibrations from the EM. This would also determine if the ss electrodes were in fact at least partially magnetic or not, in that they should still oscillate if they are. However, it doesn’t look like Mookie will be forthcoming with an answer to this question, and no one on EF thought to ask this.
Water is not magnetic. Ions within the water are not magnetic. Unlike an E-field which will align the dipolar water molecule, a magnet will have little or no effect on the water molecule. Only when ions within the water are set into motion (a current flows) will an external magnetic field have an effect.
For myself, the matter of how much power the EM is consuming (and I expect probably at least 600W) is irrelevant at present, as Mookies set up would be nowhere near ideal. To me the fact that he appears to clearly be demonstrating a cavitation effect at 50 – 60Hz is the important thing. However, one thing that really does need to be determined is that the bubbles created by the EM are in fact hydrogen and oxygen, and not just water vapour.
A few other things also come to mind when I think of people using mains powered electrolysers in the past, that have claimed over-Faraday and say that they have witnessed bubbles emanating from between the electrodes rather than from the surface of them. Could this have been due to the plates oscillating at 50 – 60Hz and so creating a cavitation effect? Mookies demonstration might just have answered a lot of questions.
I know Mookie says his electrodes need to be magnetic, but as already stated, I would be very surprised if this is so. If this was the case, then the EM alone should have produced some cavitation – it does not appear to. No, I’m inclined to stick with Fleming’s rules here, and the fact that a current carrying conductor (the electrodes) will react (move) when their magnetic fields interacts with the powerful external magnetic field of the EM – and in this case at 50 – 60Hz.
As far as Faraday’s laws are concerned, this measure of gas would only apply to the standard dc electrolysis occurring, NOT any gases produced via cavitation. Remember, while Faraday’s laws can be used as a baseline for comparing other forms of water dissociation, Faraday’s laws only apply to the process whereby ions are involved in exchanging charges at the electrodes. This is something that many people fail hopelessly to get to grips with. Faraday’s laws of electrolysis themselves are flawless in their simplicity and beyond question if people would only take the time to look them up and fully understand them. Over-Faraday may be quite possible, but this will never make Faraday’s laws redundant or obsolete as they only relate to a specific process. Whether cavitation can be made more efficient than Faraday electrolysis in terms of power vs gas output, is unknown to me, but it must be understood that you can not apply Faraday’s laws of electrolysis directly to cavitation – or plasma electrolysis for that matter - as both methods evolve gases that are not derived from ionisation of the water molecule. You can however use Faraday’s laws as a baseline from which to judge the performance or efficiency of other methods of dissociating the water molecule.
The most immediate thing to come to my mind when I look at Mookies demonstration (and if I’m right in my thinking that Fleming’s rules are in effect) is that the electromagnet could be replaced by strong neos within the cell, and instead of the electrolyser being powered by dc, the current could be pulsed. Basically achieving the same effect by reversing the system. Given a high enough pulsed current, and of course depending on electrolyser design, the electrodes would then see the same oscillation effect. This would do away with the need for an electromagnet altogether and make design far simpler.
The beauty of using powerful neos is that any cavitation effect would be a by-product of Faraday electrolysis. By pulsing the current it may be possible to get the electrodes to oscillate and so induce cavitation with very little extra power consumption. The fluctuating magnetic field produced by the pulsing current, would interact with the magnetic field provided by the neos. We basically create a SLF or mains ‘hum’ within the cells.
The variables that are most influential in both Mookies present set up and my proposed neo version would be the strength of the magnetic fields and the amount of current flowing through the cell.
How important are these super-low frequencies? Many of us that have played with pulsed electrolysers in the past have employed PWMs that do not operate at anything close to 50 – 60Hz, so would never see this effect. Maybe we’ve simply been operating at too high frequencies!
Got to say this is the most excited I’ve been for a good while as there really is something to get my teeth into here – and possibly something that explains a lot of things that have to-date evaded explanation.
NB. Great link Szaxx!
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Topic: Mookie's Electrolyser Accelerator (Read 72905 times)
