Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench

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2024-11-26, 06:41:09
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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench (Read 309444 times)

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2475 on: 2021-11-30, 20:36:03 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-11-30, 08:02:01 the "free energy" is realized by the v2 term (e = mv2), high voltage sets the v term which is squared, Why is this energy "free" if the acceleration of charged particles consumes energy? P.S. E_k = ½mv²

forest	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2476 on: 2021-11-30, 21:50:26 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	Because solarlab hide one important thing - what energy is used to speed up electrons. It's not energy from power source that's why there is a gain, using external energy.

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2477 on: 2021-11-30, 22:21:06 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: forest on 2021-11-30, 21:50:26 Because solarlab hide one important thing - what energy is used to speed up electrons. It's not energy from power source... Well, if the energy used to accelerate electrons is not from the power supply, then it is "free" indeed. So what is the source of energy used to accelerate them in his scenario ? « Last Edit: 2021-11-30, 23:43:57 by verpies »

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2478 on: 2021-11-30, 23:07:59 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-11-30, 22:38:59 Very little energy is expended to achieve high eV... Since "eV" (an Electronvolt) is a unit of energy (equal to 1.602176634×10⁻¹⁹ Joule) then this sentence fragment can be rewritten as: "Very little energy is expended to achieve high energy..." Which appears self-contradictory unless the energy "expended" comes from a different source than the energy "yielded". This then begs the question: What is that source ? Alternatively, the author might have meant to write: "Very little energy is expended to achieve many meters per second..." Which is very plausible for an electron, since even a 1 Volt potential difference accelerates an electron to 593km/sec (368 miles/sec). Quote from: solarlab on 2021-11-30, 22:38:59 ..doubling the velocity (eV) moves the energy from 200 to 800 Again, the SI unit of velocity for an electron is the [meter/second] - not the Electronvolt [eV]. Anyway, it is true that doubling the velocity of an electron quadruples its kinetic energy in the Newtonian formula. However, that is a double edged sword in classical physics, because the same formula applies to the: 1) energy expended in accelerating the electrons. 2) energy yielded from decelerating the moving electrons. Quote from: solarlab on 2021-11-30, 22:38:59 ...which then yields more energy than expended in accelerating the electron...

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2479 on: 2021-12-01, 02:07:44 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 01:43:17 ...the Katcher connects to the Antenna through that 5 or 6 turn counter-wound ferrite core thing (might cause a voltage drop and phase adjustment to the HV pulse - that's where the last CAE run encountered some questionable results). That "counter-wound ferrite core thing" (a.k.a. "gizmo") appears to be a low pass filter (or a notch filter if higher frequencies than 4MHz are considered). Take a look at this analysis. Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 01:43:17 "Very little energy is expended to achieve many meters per second - which, in turn, ultimately yields high energy;" hows that. That is understandable but it implies that the accelerated electrons pick up some additional energy (from some other source than the accelerating voltage provided by the power supply) along their way before being harvested.

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2480 on: 2021-12-01, 02:43:43 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 02:39:20 You don't happen to have the S11 for this one by chance? And, S11 & S22 in degrees? No, but I could measure them again. Which "gizmo" configuration are you interested in ? What frequency range ?

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2481 on: 2021-12-01, 02:44:38 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 01:43:17 Suppose Stalkers HV threshold is at 3.73kV, could you possibly calculate (ball park is good enough) the Joules and Coulombs that might be available to the system at, or near, these various "Grenade" and "Inductor" targets. Even if you gave me the example dimensions and distances to these targets, it would be a very difficult question to answer. 3.73keV is three orders of magnitude larger than the ionization potentials of air molecules and air consists of several types of gasses. Take a look at this experiment: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench It is complicated enough at only 16eV and with only one type of gas at very low pressure. In vacuum, I could make some rough estimates but I'd have to know at least the charge carrier density in the questioned space or the type and temperature of the electron emitter. In air at atmoshperic pressure, I would also need to know the type of discharge (Townsend, glow, arc). The secondaey secondary ion avalanche products and additional phenomena are hard enough in Townsend discharge and in air at 3.73keV are incalculable. Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Last Edit: 2021-12-01, 03:53:32 by verpies »

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2482 on: 2021-12-01, 03:10:47 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 02:51:35 OK, I was thinking something like in the MIT video - in this case, send an electron burst a few mm (speed doesn't change once the eV has set the velocity). In vacuum at least, there's no energy change during the time of flight. My vacuum chamber is 30cm Most other members of this forum cannot deal with any kind of vacuum at all. I think it would be easier and cheaper to measure the speed of the Townsend avalanche in air at atmospheric pressure using two charged metal plates/spheres and a dermatological picosecond laser to generate the well timed initial ionization event. The delay between the light picopulse and the resulting rising edge of the electric current is well within the capabilities of contemporary oscilloscopes. When new, these lasers can generate a 1 Joule light pulse that is 300 picoseconds wide but they cost arm and a leg. However, when they become worn out, they still can generate picosecond pulses but only at milli Joule levels and then they become available on eBay almost for free. These worn-out lasers are still good enough to generate a well timed initial ionization event in air for such measurements. Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2483 on: 2021-12-01, 03:27:37 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 03:19:51 Look at it this way - narrow HV pulses do not ionize (corona) but do contain energy (and a related velocity) which is, in turn, based on the level of induced potential (Katcher). Ionization does not have to result in visible glow. Ionized molecules/atoms and electrons do not have to travel for centimetres to be qualified as ionized particles. 1) The "related velocity' you are mentioning refers to the velocity of electrons, doesn't it ? 2) These electrons come from the air molecules, don't they ? Or do you agree with Smudge's principle. If you answered "yes" to these two questions, then the removal of electrons from air molecules/atoms (even for 11 nanoseconds) is the very definition of ionization. What happens to the electrons after they are stripped out or knocked out of atoms is a whole different story. I don't deny that they do get accelerated by the applied HV potential as soon as they get separated from the molecules/atoms. ...but that is not the end of their journey, e.g.: see this.

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2484 on: 2021-12-01, 04:19:15 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 04:04:08 so now we have defined ionization, or have we - but HV pulses still influence electrons Yes and not only pulses but constant voltages, too. However, the most important take away from this is the observation that HV influences electrons, which are separated from atoms, much differently than electrons which are bound to atoms. As a side note, I'd like to add that an electron in a 10kV discharge which is not bound to an atom survives for only 680nm in STP air on average, before it is recaptured by one of the air molecules. See: mean free path and Fig.10 in the attached article. Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 04:04:08 What a massive waste of valuable time - nothing more! Not at all. Agreeing on definitions is the basis of coherent communication. ------------------------ Electrons MFP in Air.pdf (1454.82 kB - downloaded 126 times.)

Centraflow	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2485 on: 2021-12-01, 08:03:42 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: verpies on 2021-12-01, 03:27:37 Ionization does not have to result in visible glow. Ionized molecules/atoms and electrons do not have to travel for centimetres to be qualified as ionized particles. 1) The "related velocity' you are mentioning refers to the velocity of electrons, doesn't it ? 2) These electrons come from the air molecules, don't they ? Or do you agree with Smudge's principle. If you answered "yes" to these two questions, then the removal of electrons from air molecules/atoms (even for 11 nanoseconds) is the very definition of ionization. What happens to the electrons after they are stripped out or knocked out of atoms is a whole different story. I don't deny that they do get accelerated by the applied HV potential as soon as they get separated from the molecules/atoms. ...but that is not the end of their journey, e.g.: see this. Well said Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

forest	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2486 on: 2021-12-01, 09:39:41 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	Do you think it's about ionizatioon of air to produce electrons ? Hmm... I disagree. Electrons ionized by power source and speed up by power source cannot have more energy then applied by power source. Think about it. Steven Mark said something interesting about various currents in the same circuits having different sources. They are mostly independent.

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2487 on: 2021-12-01, 10:38:38 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 08:55:16 Yea, yur damn right partner - no way it'll survive past 680nm ... (wikipedia certified) and my Grade 8 Physics Professor just confirmed that! The arcs and streamers in air from the Tesla coil (of which photo you posted) survive much longer than 680nm and the lightning during a thunderstorm survives even longer. However, just like a chain, these phenomena consist of multiple short emission and absorption events, thus they do not constitute an evidence that contradicts the mean free path being well below 1mm. This is illustrated below where the distances marked in blue color are much smaller than the collective distance marked in green color.

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2488 on: 2021-12-01, 12:43:01 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: forest on 2021-12-01, 09:39:41 Do you think it's about ionization of air to produce electrons ? I am not adamant about it. I am just following the line of reasoning about the operational principle proposed in this thread. The fact is that anytime we talk about electrons travelling through air, we must consider the impact that these elections have on the air molecules (and vice versa). This inescapably leads to the consideration of inelastic collisions of electrons with air molecules and their ionization. There are other sources of free electrons, e.g.: a heated metal cathode or photoelectric effect, however electrons emitted from such sources are localized and get absorbed by air within micrometers of such emitters and if they do not cause secondary electron emissions from the air molecules, then the kinetic energy carried by them gets absorbed, too, ...and the entire process comes to a halt. Quote from: forest on 2021-12-01, 09:39:41 Electrons ionized by power source and speed up by power source cannot have more energy then applied by power source. Think about it. I agree with that. I think what is being proposed here is an unnamed secondary process which is activated by these accelerated electrons ...and which adds energy to them somehow. I am not the author of the idea, so don't ask me what it is. Maybe that unnamed secondary process is based on something similar to this ? P.S. Smudge has a similar idea based on electrons pulled out of metal surface by high electric potential difference. It is worth considering..

forest	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2489 on: 2021-12-01, 16:56:56 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	It's obvious there is external energy source and the only candidate is Earth or rather Sun radiation with the help of Earth. In fact we all sense it has to be - there is no other source around. Everybody wants someone to jump in the discussion and explain all. This will not happen.

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2490 on: 2021-12-01, 17:12:00 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: forest on 2021-12-01, 16:56:56 It's obvious there is external energy source and the only candidate is Earth or rather Sun radiation with the help of Earth. In fact we all sense it has to be - there is no other source around. But there is a whole lot of matter that is closer than Sun or Earth and all matter is equivalent to energy. Remember e=mc²

Vasik041	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2491 on: 2021-12-01, 17:48:08 »
Group: Guest	Just in case somebody still want do something... Here an experiment description how to measure ground wire frequency, how to match LC and wave resonance in gradient coil etc. As you may be remember, we attempted something similar at the beginning, but it wasn't exactly clear how to do it at that time. Have fun, Vasik ------------------------ ground.pdf (298.69 kB - downloaded 166 times.)

AlienGrey	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2492 on: 2021-12-01, 18:54:23 »
Group: Guest	Vasik hi, to answere your question, yes so what is the blue & yellow trace relating to ? is it a Rigol blue and yellow scope inputs by any chance ? any more instructions only no sub titles Sil PS no one else is going to ask On an old coil i have i get this > ------------------------ Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench DS1Z_QuickPrint1.png (88.93 kB, 800x480 - viewed 530 times.) « Last Edit: 2021-12-01, 20:47:22 by AlienGrey »

Vasik041	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2493 on: 2021-12-01, 19:33:21 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021-12-01, 18:54:23 Vasik hi, to answere your question, yes so what is the blue trace relating to ? and what does the yellow trace relate to ? any more instructions only no sub titles Sil PSno one else is going to ask ------------------------ Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench sch.jpg (40.68 kB, 796x350 - viewed 493 times.)

Maxolous	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2494 on: 2021-12-01, 21:08:44 »
Sr. Member Posts: 389	If any must achieve interaction in this device in a proper way and if especially you are using nano-pulser, you should put into consideration that during shifting and pulse widthing of Tesla coil signal that you have caused delay. Sometime was taken to charge those caps. Consequently, Tesla would arrive late on the scene. In order to compensate for this, push-pull must be delayed also so that you don't make pulses at the wrong time. Regards. Maxolous.

verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2495 on: 2021-12-02, 22:21:07 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3498	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-01, 17:45:31 I'm not the least bit interested in "agreeing on definitions" nor "coherent communication". That is a helluva thing to admit on a scientific forum. If you are not interested in coherent discourse, then why did you come here ? @All What do you think ?

NickZ	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2496 on: 2021-12-02, 22:35:50 »
Group: Guest	He was just bored....nothing better to do. And wanted to rile you up, with his post and paste theories. Which as you know neither you nor he, will build anything to prove his views, nor yours Perhaps, he (or the "we"), that didn't get what they expected...and are here for more... NickZ « Last Edit: 2021-12-03, 02:09:29 by NickZ »

Maxolous	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2497 on: 2021-12-03, 07:25:42 »
Sr. Member Posts: 389	Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-03, 00:07:21 Notable is the Katcher pulse burst timing with respect to the Grenade Coil (GC) signal. The concept is different from the electron bunching found in a TWT but, I believe, the mechanism (Velocity Modulation) is similar. Am quite in agreement with you in this regard. Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-03, 00:07:21 In simple terms: - a signal propagates through the GC, signal wavefront speed is set by the signal frequency (phase), - but must be slowed down by the Slow Wave Structure (SWS) of the GC helical coil, - normally the GC signal wavefront would propagate at near the speed of light (C or 3x108 m/s), - the GC signal wavefront must be slowed to match the speed of the Electron pulse burst created by the Katcher, That's right! Quote from: solarlab on 2021-12-03, 00:07:21 - Electron pulse burst speed is set by the Katcher voltage [recall e = mc2] where e=energy, m=electron mass, - and c=speed of light, but in this case the velocity is v2 set by the Katcher high voltage, the square part is bonus, - now, when the signal wavefron and the electron speed nearly match, energy is transfered to the signal, This brings about effective interaction between GC & pulses from Tesla. Maxolous.

Chet K	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2498 on: 2021-12-03, 16:40:38 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Nick It’s AG’s thread I am sure you know you can moderate your own board And share your own “theory and experimental path” One thing I would strongly advise against , accusing other members of “hidden suppression or other Nefarious activity !! Verpies has helped many here , and quite consistently been a very big aid to itsu’s bench ( yes a build partner of sorts) In the ongoing hunt for a true anomaly … that will survive scientific scrutiny ( regardless what name or shape is in the thread tittle! Respectfully Chet K Ps To solarlab The benches in the open source community are very deep in talent and resources ( university grade … The sky is the limit … after all it’s the only rock we have atm , and many are quite passionate about its future … The only stipulation Open source!!

partzman	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2499 on: 2021-12-04, 15:37:10 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	I'm sorry but I have a little different view of Ruslan's field demo! At the 11:30 mark or so, he quickly scans over the area where the ground wire seems to terminate in a rather large clump of cuttings. Why the long length of so-called welding cable? Why not a short piece or why not move the display table closer? Is there magic in the length of cable? At the beginning of the video he shows enough detail that one can ascertain the connector that connects the cable to the ground rod or pipe! Look closely if you can and determine if you see any bare wire that should be visible where the cable enters the connector? Again I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced!!! Regards, Pm PS-Remove this post if you like.

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