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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 309982 times)
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2100 on: 2021-10-26, 17:53:08 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-26, 17:28:41
This is how we build boost convertor.
We were not talking about the boost converter.

Anyway, if you put a CSR in series with the inductor in such converter and use it to measure the current flowing in that inductor, then you will observe the same all positive triangular waveform when a resistive load is connected.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2101 on: 2021-10-26, 17:54:46 »

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Also know that , at the time the transistor was closed much energy was stored in Inductor.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2102 on: 2021-10-26, 17:56:13 »
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   Verpies:
   Yes, but only showing what happens in normal closed circuits, not in open systems, which are tapping into the underlying Aether source, which THEY don't believe exists. Simply because they can't prove or disprove it, yet. Like Dark Energy, etc... Or like ghosts, can't prove them, either. So, they don't exist, for science. Right? Those are some of the self imposed current limitation that science has to deal with, which are still the case.
  If we don't consider the non physical causes of the physical effects that we see, we are still blind to the reality of the cosmos.

   NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2103 on: 2021-10-26, 18:02:41 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-26, 17:53:08
We were not talking about the boost converter.

Anyway, if you put a CSR in series with the inductor in such converter and use it to measure the current flowing in that inductor, then you will observe the same all positive triangular waveform when a resistive load is connected.


Even in boost converter am using as an example, current still flow in one direction inspite of the resistance. That should not be a yardstick. If you look at my picture, you would see that when the positive pulse was at MOSFET gate current passed. The question is would that had been all. That was just resultant current. You see, there is a misconception here that we have to get clear. I never said current will not flow. Of course current will flow but, not without resistance.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2104 on: 2021-10-26, 18:04:18 »
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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-26, 17:48:30
Remember , when inductor rise in current reaches it's stead state a time "t"  only the resistance of inductor will be left, hence the reactances is cancelled . Therefore, for the above cct. It becomes almost a short cct. which strongly opposes current flow.

The voltage that you get after diode will be much greater than that applied.


   Max:  How about the actual power factor? Will it also be greater.  Or,  Is it just the voltage that will be higher,  but, at the expense of the current?
   Boost converters...  will this discussion lead to how to obtain OU, and such. All closed system have resistance, and is why there is no free lunch there.


   NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2105 on: 2021-10-26, 18:16:23 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-26, 17:54:46
Also know that, at the time the transistor was closed much energy was stored in Inductor.
Yes, if you orient the diode in such a way that the current flows from the voltage source to the load even when the transistor is opened.
If the diode is flipped around, then current will flow through the load only after the switch has been closed for a while and after it opens.

But, you are switching subjects.  The energy storage in an inductor is not the point of our discussion - the direction of current flowing through that inductor - is.
If you want my analysis of inductive energy storage and recovery then read this.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2106 on: 2021-10-26, 18:26:58 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 18:04:18

   Max:  How about the actual power factor? Will it also be greater.  Or,  Is it just the voltage that will be higher,  but, at the expense of the current?
   Boost converters...  will this discussion lead to how to obtain OU, and such. All closed system have resistance, and is why there is no free lunch there.


   NickZ

Power factor is another ballgame.

But if you mean power in the circuit, I don't think so. This arrangement is to boost voltage only.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2107 on: 2021-10-26, 18:31:30 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-26, 18:02:41
Even in boost converter am using as an example, current still flow in one direction inspite of the resistance. That should not be a yardstick. If you look at my picture, you would see that when the positive pulse was at MOSFET gate current passed. The question is would that had been all. That was just resultant current. You see, there is a misconception here that we have to get clear. I never said current will not flow. Of course current will flow but, not without resistance.
The mere constant current flow through the inductor is not the issue.  I have already analyzed the "steady state" at the "V/R limit" here.
The direction of this flow is the issue when the transistor switches.

Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-26, 18:02:41
If you look at my picture, you would see that when the positive pulse was at MOSFET gate current passed.
Do you mean "has passed"?  Isn't that equivalent to the MOSFET being open ?
If "yes" then, I agree that in the boost-converter circuit, the current will flow through the inductor and the load when the MOSFET is open.  ...but the direction of current through the inductor DOES NOT REVERSE when the MOSFET switches (even if the EMF across it does).  Insert a CSR in series with the inductor and see for yourself.

Anyway, the boost converter is not the most illustrative example because the inductor's current never reaches zero. 
A more educational circuit to analyze is the one with the diode flipped around, like this:



If you connect the scope across the CSR, then you will also see an all positive waveform ...ergo - no current reversal.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2108 on: 2021-10-26, 18:53:06 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 18:04:18
How about the actual power factor?
Power factor relates to AC voltage sources and reactive loads, not to DC-DC converters.  Thus your question is irrelevant to this discussion.

Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 18:04:18
Or,  Is it just the voltage that will be higher,  but, at the expense of the current?
Yes - voltage in DC-DC converters is converted at the expense of current or vice versa.

Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 18:04:18
Boost converters...  will this discussion lead to how to obtain OU, and such.
Not directly.  It will only lead to a better understanding of conventional LR circuits ...and answer questions like:  "What is that diode doing?"

Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 18:04:18
All closed system have resistance, and is why there is no free lunch there.
Superconductive inductors exist and they are really devoid of resistance.  The current can circulate in them for years.
Still, even in the absence of resistance they do not exhibit OU.

P.S.
I noticed that you deleted your question "What is magnetic flux ?  Magnetics 101"
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2109 on: 2021-10-26, 19:04:57 »
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Connect a scope probe across R1 ( a Current Sensing Resistor [CSR] ) and pulse the Q1 and see for yourself that the direction of current in L1 does not reverse when Q1 opens.
Polarity of voltage - yes.
Polarity of current - no.

I agree and we can also place diode(s) on the output to determine the direction of the current or LED's on low power circuits.

Strangely, most people get this wrong if they didn't learn the fundamentals or are not following the scientific method. We basically use the left hand rule for electron flow then follow the magnetic field direction(expansion/contraction).

I like to break it down...
1)if we apply an emf to a conductor it produces an increasing electron current in the conductor.
2)the increasing electron current produces an outward expanding magnetic field.
3)the outward expanding magnetic field cuts the same conductor inducing an emf in the opposite direction to the applied emf/current, ie. self-induction.
4)If the applied emf/current is reduced then the magnetic field must start contracting inward.
5)If an outward expanding magnetic field induces an emf which opposes the applied emf/current then an inward contracting magnetic field must induce an emf in the opposite direction which is now the same direction as the applied emf/current.

More important is understanding that bulk equations and generalizing things cannot replace a good understanding of what actually happens on the most fundamental level in reality. In reality we are dealing with particles, fields of force and energy as the motion of particle/fields. All this free energy stuff gets much easier if we can learn to think on a deeper level.

Regards
AC







---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2110 on: 2021-10-26, 19:08:16 »

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Quote from: Allcanadian on 2021-10-26, 19:04:57
5) If an outward expanding magnetic field induces an emf which opposes the applied emf/current then an inward contracting magnetic field must induce an emf in the opposite direction which is now the same direction as the applied emf/current.
This is the most important point.

Quote from: Allcanadian on 2021-10-26, 19:04:57
In reality we are dealing with particles, fields of force and energy as the motion of particle/fields.
I would not call them "reality" yet, ...because particles, spin, fields of force and energy are still abstractions that we Humans use as crutches to understand reality.
When asked what a particle, spin, field of force and energy is, most people draw a blank stare.  Some are even afraid to ask these question.
In my opinion particles, spin, fields of force and energy are not axioms and there is a more fundamental mechanism from which they arise.  This big table and this at the bottom of the page gives us a hint what it is.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2111 on: 2021-10-26, 19:28:23 »
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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-26, 18:26:58
Power factor is another ballgame.

But if you mean power in the circuit, I don't think so. This arrangement is to boost voltage only.

Maxolous


   Max:  Just to be clear, so then it's the only the voltage that is raised, but at the expense of the current. Nothing gained, except higher voltage.
   Why is this important to mention? As it seems pretty basic, and well known.

   NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2112 on: 2021-10-26, 19:55:49 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 19:28:23
Why is this important to mention? As it seems pretty basic, and well known.
Because not knowing the basics is harmful to experimantation.

Also, knowing the basics allows one to spot an anomaly. 
For example if I would see the current in an inductor suddenly reverse its direction, than it would get my attention and I would pursue this anomaly.  Without knowing that it is an anomaly - I'd never notice it as anything special.

Knowing the basics allows you to know where to aim your gun more precisely and not to shoot phantoms.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2113 on: 2021-10-26, 19:57:42 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-26, 19:08:16
This is the most important point.
I would not call them "reality" yet, ...because particles, spin, fields of force and energy are still abstractions that we Humans use as crutches to understand reality.
When asked what a particle, spin, field of force and energy is, most people draw a blank stare.  Some are even afraid to ask these question.
In my opinion particles, spin, fields of force and energy are not axioms and there is a more fundamental mechanism from which they arise.  This big table and this at the bottom of the page gives us a hint what it is.

   Yes, there are many things that we don't understand, and possibly never will. We still wrongly call Light, a particle. Such as in a "Particle of Light".
Which equates to light being a thing, when it is a non thing, instead.  Or, Is it really a "particle", as we know a particle to be, Really? And does it actually move? As in the calculated "speed of light". What is it that is actually "moving".
   I don't mean to receive a copy and paste article about what is Light.  Just saying...
   
  What we are dealing with here are not just empty theories. Like the Big Bang, and other current miss information. And we, at least some of us are really working on self running systems.
  "Abstractions", may not be the best way to describe all these ideas dealing with energy, EMF force fields, magnetics, gravity, vortex field energies, and such.  However, I know what you mean, and do agree with it, most of the time. However, it's those field energies that we need to tap into, as Tesla has suggested.
   It's hard know where to aim your gun, when you can't see what to aim for.

   NickZ

   If I removed the Magnetics 001, post, that was not intentional. Feel free to comment.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2114 on: 2021-10-26, 20:07:13 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 19:57:42
And does it actually move, as in the "speed of light". What is it that is actually "moving".
Have you ever considered that it might be You (a material object) that is moving ...and the light is standing still ;)

Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 19:57:42
I don't mean to receive a copy and paste article about what is light.
OK, I will spare you that
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2115 on: 2021-10-26, 20:10:42 »
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   Thanks Verpies, I appreciate that.
 
   I will consider what you mentioned, about who is doing the moving. A little funny, like Nelson would say?
   However, Isn't EVERYTHING moving, can't stand still, even the non things???
   Yes, dead heads like me move. Light does not "move", it polarizes at the so called "speed of Light". There is a difference...

   NZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2116 on: 2021-10-26, 20:23:07 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 20:10:42
However, Isn't EVERYTHING moving, can't stand still, even the non things???
Yes, every thing.
Even protons and electrons always spin.

If you look at it from the light's point of view - any deviation from the speed of light is motion.
...and in most general terms, motion is space divided by time (v=s/t).
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2117 on: 2021-10-26, 20:55:00 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-26, 20:23:07
Yes, every thing.
Even protons and electrons always spin.

If you look at it from the light's point of view - any deviation from the speed of light is motion.
...and in most general terms, motion is space divided by time (v=s/t).


   Wow, hard to fathom that. I'm not a numbers guy, I work by feelings, as in inspirations, and such. No math for me.
   I look for the cause of causes. But, there has to be something or some non thing that is much much much faster than just the speed of light. NO? Such as "thought". You send it, and it's there, eg instantanious telepathic communications, as Tesla had mentioned.

   If one throws a piece of wood in a river. Is the wood moving, on it's own power. Or not...?
   Aren't we like that piece of wood, thrown in a river of energies?  And, where are the Aliens? Elon Musk asks...
   I say, just wait and see...
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2118 on: 2021-10-26, 21:07:24 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 20:55:00
Wow, hard to fathom that. I'm not a numbers guy,
I did not give you any numbers. Just concepts.

In CostaRica you measure motion or speed in kilometres per hour, don't you ?
So, "kilometre" is a unit of space and "hour" is a unit of time ...and the word "per" means "divided by".
So speed is space divided by time.

Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-26, 20:55:00
But, there has to be something or some non thing that is much much much faster than just the speed of light. NO? Such as "thought". You send it, and it's there, ...
Do you mean this ?
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2119 on: 2021-10-26, 21:46:56 »

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@viepies,

Check out Lenz's law.  we know according to Lenz’s law a reverse current will be induced that will oppose the cause which has produced it.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2120 on: 2021-10-26, 21:54:31 »

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Lenz’s law, in electromagnetism, statement that an induced electric current flows in a direction such that the current opposes the change that induced it. This law was deduced in 1834 by the Russian physicist Heinrich Friedrich Emil Lenz (1804–65).
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2121 on: 2021-10-26, 21:58:26 »

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Faraday's Law is also similar to Lenz's law .
Please, check it out.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2122 on: 2021-10-26, 22:12:18 »

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In a nutshell, a charging magnetic field always produces current having a direction which opposes what induced it.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2123 on: 2021-10-26, 22:13:02 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-26, 21:07:24
I did not give you any numbers. Just concepts.

In CostaRica you measure motion or speed in kilometres per hour, don't you ?
So, "kilometre" is a unit of space and "hour" is a unit of time ...and the word "per" means "divided by".
So speed is space divided by time.
Do you mean this ?

   Verpies:   No, quantum anything makes absolutely NO sense to me. I understand Tesla, who proved what he thought, instead.
Not some guy just sitting on his butt trying to understand and figure out just how the cosmos works. Yes, I mean him...

  Speed is space divided by time. Yes, simple enough, even for me. What is the point?
Where is this going? Will it lead us back to OU, self running, and what's needed to improve this thread.  Or, to distract us from it, instead?

   NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2124 on: 2021-10-26, 22:13:46 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-26, 21:46:56
Check out Lenz's law.  we know according to Lenz’s law a reverse current will be induced that will oppose the cause which has produced it.
Lenz's law is my favorite subject for conversation.
When you use the word "reverse" you are not specifying "reverse" with respect to what !  e.g to past current, to current in another coil, etc...

Also, when the word "reverse" is a sign comparison operator, and as such it can only compare quantities of the same type. e.g.: current to current ...or voltage to voltage.

Also, your definition of the Lenz law is ambiguous. It should be:
"...a reverse current will be induced in the direction that will generate an internal opposing magnetic flux to the external magnetic flux which would otherwise change the total magnetic flux spanned by the inductor".

Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-26, 22:12:18
In a nutshell, a charging magnetic field always produces current having a direction which opposes what induced it.
Not quite. It should be rephrased like this:
"...a changing external magnetic flux always induces current in a conducting coil that will generate an internal opposing magnetic flux and that flux will attempt to keep the total flux spanned by the conducting coil, constant".  If it does not, e.g. because the coil is open, then the total magnetic flux spanned by the coil will not be maintained constant.


Notice, that the induced current has only ONE DIRECT CAUSE. Namely the external magnetic flux (ΦEXT) which attempts to change the total flux penetrating the coil (ΦTOT).  The induction is not dependent on local magnetic flux densities (B) within the coil (only on its closed loop integral, which is flux).  In Mathspeak:
ΦTOT = ΦEXT + ΦINT
 
In an ideal shorted inductor coil ΦTOT always stays constant regardless what the ΦEXT is attempting to ...do and that implies that ΦINT = -ΦEXT  ...a perfect and perpetual opposition of the internal flux to the external flux.
In a resistivity coil, the opposition is not perpetual and decays with time.
   
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