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2024-11-26, 11:46:51
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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 310324 times)
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2050 on: 2021-10-25, 16:34:20 »
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NickZ
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Guys: All this talk about nanopulsers and such.  Show me one that works... All I've seen is tiny outputs from those who have made and used them, barely able to light any bulbs on these types of circuits, nor show any real power generation effect. Why?

The problem is always the same trying to build something we do not understand with no theory or working principal to support it.

It's a neat electronics project however this device is the most complex and difficult to build and tune I have seen to date. Kudos to all the builders for even getting this far however they have a long way to go. I built the basic device, ran some tests and determined it wasn't for me. In fact it convinced me to move in the opposite direction and build a simple device with only a few components to prove the effect which drives these devices.

In any case keep up the good work...

Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2051 on: 2021-10-25, 16:45:00 »
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   Max:
   There are several things that you are not doing right. If you don't want to know what they are, that is no problem. I won't bother you, continue on...
I'm just letting you know that just because you see the bulb get brighter when turning the Kacher on also. That is NOT showing what I would call interaction.. It is only the additional current provided by the Kacher circuit. Real interaction can't be seen at low load settings. You'll see what I mean, soon enough.

   NickZ
   
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2052 on: 2021-10-25, 16:55:07 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-25, 13:02:25
Power source need to be on first ,  before turning on MOSFET ,  if I got you clearly!
You did not.
I meant that the current in an inductor supplied by a voltage source starts at zero and rises linearly at first.  See here.
The transistor can be switched OFF before this current becomes too high (e.g. at ⅛Tau).  A current limiting resistor (or NTC) is not necessary because the inductor impedes the current naturally.

Of course if you keep the transistor ON too long (e.g. 5*Tau) then you'd better have a current limiting resistor or NTC ...but that is en erroneous manner of pulsing an inductor ...and inefficient, too.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2053 on: 2021-10-25, 16:56:36 »
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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-25, 16:24:10
I am not interested in lighting 3 bulbs , if I don't get it right, I'll pack it up .

Maxolous

   Perhaps it's you that needs to take it easy.  I'm not packing it up, ever, I've already been at this for several years, and never expected it to be easy.
   Like I said I won't bother you again. Sorry that you think that way, only trying to help.

   NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2054 on: 2021-10-25, 17:12:01 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-25, 16:56:36
Perhaps it's you that needs to take it easy.  I'm not packing it up, ever, I've already been at this for several years, and never expected it to be easy.
...and glory to you for that but until you are successful it is presumptuous for you to discourage other people from their ideas which you don't believe or don't understand but might have merit, nonetheless.
e.g.: Max/Alien's nanopulser idea and my idea about the a reaction of some exotic ferrites to the electric field from the Kacher or TC.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2055 on: 2021-10-25, 17:15:30 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-25, 16:55:07
You did not.
I meant that the current in an inductor supplied by a voltage source starts at zero and rises linearly at first.  See here.
The transistor can be switched off before this current becomes too high (e.g. at Tau=0.1).  A current limiting resistor (or NTC) is not necessary because the inductor impedes the current naturally.

   I believe that on the first Akula schematic it was showing a NTC, on the feed back circuit. But, I'll check that better. May have nothing to do with what you are discussing here.
   How do we know if an inductor, is actually going to impeded the current, sufficiently? Switching off, the transistors? By lowering the duty cycle? Dead time, or how?

  What some guys may not understand is that once the Kacher is turned on, there is HV on everything. Not just on the inside of components, but on the surface, as well. Any groundings can affect that, including scope connections, or components and things which can alter the needed "effect".
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2056 on: 2021-10-25, 17:23:34 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-25, 17:15:30
How do we know if an inductor, is actually going to impeded the current, sufficiently?
Because that is the very nature of every inductor.  If it does not do that, it is not an inductor.

Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-25, 17:15:30

Switching off, the transistors? By lowering the duty cycle?
Yes - in general by limiting the pulse width to something below Tau.

Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-25, 17:15:30
What some guys may not understand is that once the Kacher is turned on, there is HV on everything. Not just on the inside of components, but on the surface, as well. Any groundings can affect that, including scope connections, or components and things which can alter the needed "effect".
Yes, HV is a bitch to deal with but it is possible.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2057 on: 2021-10-25, 17:26:36 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-25, 17:12:01
...and glory to you for that but until you are successful it is presumptuous for you to discourage other people from their ideas which might have merit.
e.g.: Max/Alien's nanopulser idea and my idea about the a reaction of some exotic ferrites to the electric field from the Kacher or TC.

   I am not discouraging anybody. Sorry if you think so. I just would like to see it work as it should. Which has not happened to any one building such a circuit, here or at OU.com. If I'm wrong, please show me, how wrong I am. As I need to see it, to believe it. Don't you?
   I am talking about OU, or self running not just lighting some bulbs and such. As I would love to see one such device work towards that end.
However, I can't just trust what I see on some videos, which can never be replicated. But, one such circuit shown actually working and self running by one of us that we trust like Itsu, etc, would do me just fine towards further credibility. And, the same goes for the yoke cores, as well. Maybe some day we'll get that chance.
 
   
    NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2058 on: 2021-10-25, 17:48:04 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-25, 16:55:07
You did not.
I meant that the current in an inductor supplied by a voltage source starts at zero and rises linearly at first.  See here.
The transistor can be switched OFF before this current becomes too high (e.g. at ⅛Tau).  A current limiting resistor (or NTC) is not necessary because the inductor impedes the current naturally.

Of course if you keep the transistor ON too long (e.g. 5*Tau) then you'd better have a current limiting resistor or NTC ...but that is en erroneous manner of pulsing an inductor ...and inefficient, too.

@Viepies,

I quite understood the transient you are explaining. ; The inductor does restrain the flow of current in the sense that at time "T" that the switch is closed ,at the first rise of the current, a magnetic field would be built up in the inductor sending current to oppose source current. Now, when the field collapses, you know that that polarity will change. the voltage from source of supply will be added to the inductors, thereby, stepping up the total voltage. The diode will allow the current to go one direction.

The resistor is added advantage anyhow. That doesn't mean the system will not work without it. It will.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2059 on: 2021-10-25, 17:57:12 »

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What I did not add is that the time for the collapse is brought about by when transistor switches off.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2060 on: 2021-10-25, 18:15:51 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-25, 17:48:04
Now, when the field collapses, you know that that polarity will change.
You need to be more precise.  "Polarity" of what ?

Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-25, 17:48:04
The diode will allow the current to go one direction.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2061 on: 2021-10-25, 18:17:51 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-25, 16:45:00
   Max:
   There are several things that you are not doing right. If you don't want to know what they are, that is no problem. I won't bother you, continue on...
I'm just letting you know that just because you see the bulb get brighter when turning the Kacher on also. That is NOT showing what I would call interaction.. It is only the additional current provided by the Kacher circuit. Real interaction can't be seen at low load settings. You'll see what I mean, soon enough.

   NickZ
 

You probably have not seen some instances when people put on there kacher or controllable Tesla all they get is dimmed output. What would you call that? For the fact that your kacher added to your push-pull the first time doesn't mean it happens always like that for everyone. When last I checked, Itsu was still having the problem of effective interaction between his Tesla and grenade.

Count it that if you start seeing such result it is a plus or you are in the right step in the right direction. All that would be necessary is to improve on it.
I gave an example with little fire.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2062 on: 2021-10-25, 18:21:06 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-25, 18:17:51
You probably have not seen some instances when people put on there kacher or controllable Tesla all they get is dimmed output.
I think Itsu's experiment has demonstrated that.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2063 on: 2021-10-25, 18:42:55 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-25, 18:15:51
You need to be more precise.  "Polarity" of what ?

When you apply power to an inductor a magnetic field will be built up this will furtherly give rise to a voltage having a current which opposes source current. The polarity of the voltages will be like. (-. +) (+. -)  the left bracket is  source power , while the right is inductor built-up power.

When  the switch is opened and the magnetic field that is built up collapses you will have polarity of the voltages in this manner (-  +)(-. +) You see the polarity in the inductor had changed , both voltages will add up. The resultant voltage will be applied to the diode as forward bia . The diode will conduct and pass the power.

Hope am clear
« Last Edit: 2021-10-25, 21:49:08 by Maxolous »
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2064 on: 2021-10-25, 18:55:44 »

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Invariably, if the source voltage was 50v and the emf induced on inductor is 25v, you are going to see 75v after diode
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2065 on: 2021-10-25, 19:01:23 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-25, 18:21:06
I think Itsu's experiment has demonstrated that.

   I have also seen that dimming effect on my bench. It normally means that there is something wrong. Like the two frequencies are not in sync.
But, each of the two circuits have to do their part. You can see in Max's video that his induction circuit by itself is barely lighting the small wattage bulb.
   Max, keep in mind that I have spent many days, months and years at this. More than probably any one else. And I will still be at it, even if all others fail and pack it up, and leave. I did not get to where I'm at easily nor the first time, like you think. You may want to check my YouTube sight, to see that a lot of tests have been done over the last 10 years, or so. Most were OU failures. From which I also learn something from. I know what does not work..
  In any case, we need to figure out what may be wrong, with Itsu's replication, mine, and some others, as well. As I do care about that.

   NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2066 on: 2021-10-25, 19:03:17 »

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This also explained why when you get blown out transistor when you think you barely applied voltage less than Vds max in the case of MOSFET
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2067 on: 2021-10-25, 19:06:04 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-25, 18:42:55
When the switch is closed and the magnetic flux built up collapses...
Are you Russian?  I am asking because in that language an ideal "closed switch" has infinite resistance ...while an "open switch" has zero resistance, akin to a hydraulic valve.
In English it is the opposite.

Also, I added a missing word to your sentence in blue to make it more grammatically complete.

Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-25, 18:42:55
Hope am clear
Not at all.
Please go back to your message, click the "modify" button and edit it by putting one of these words ("current" or "voltage" or "power") in front of each instance of the word "polarity" and "direction", which you have written, so I can communicate with you coherently.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2068 on: 2021-10-25, 19:07:13 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-25, 19:01:23
   I have also seen that dimming effect on my bench. It normally means that there is something wrong. Like the two frequencies are not in sync.
But, each of the two circuits have to do their part. You can see in Mas's video that his induction by itself is barely lighting the bulb.
   Max, keep in mind that I have spent many days, months and years are this. More than probably any one else. And I will still be at it, even if all others fail and pack it up, and leave. I did not get to where I'm at easily nor the first time, like you think.
  In any case, we need to figure out what may be wrong, with Itsu's replication, mine, and others, as well.

   NickZ

My first suggestion to Itsu was to revisit his winding directions
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2069 on: 2021-10-25, 19:19:31 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-25, 19:01:23
I have also seen that dimming effect on my bench. It normally means that there is something wrong.
So wouldn't the lack of this dimming be a step in the right direction ?
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2070 on: 2021-10-25, 19:27:17 »
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   Yes, that seams like a good place to start to recheck into the windings, again.
As there may also be something wrong with all the schematics, and is why I try to compare them to the device shown on the video.
Not always possible though.
   I was hoping, and still am, that Geofusion would chip in. As he has a wicked controlable HV circuit. "Scary"... but has not shown us just what it can do, as far as the interaction goes.

   NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2071 on: 2021-10-25, 19:47:33 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-25, 19:19:31
So wouldn't the lack of this dimming be a step in the right direction ?

   Verpies:  Yes, of course. But, it may not be very noticeable nor significant unless there is enough load. For the reasons given previously.
  I would really need to study Itsu's video more closely. But, yes the dimming is the first thing to look into. He has already tuned to the supposed sync frequencies, but, once the dimming is solved it would be good to review the calculated sync frequencies, again, before doing what I do to find them.

  Again guys check out some of Geofusions last videos. To see how his controlable kacher works. As I believe his is the latest tech, with dead time controls, hot white streamers, and all.

   NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2072 on: 2021-10-25, 19:53:13 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-25, 19:47:33
Yes, of course. But, it may not be very noticeable nor significant unless there is enough load.
How about another question. It sounds similar but is very different conceptually.

Do you claim, that the dimming caused by enabling the Kacher/TC can be present at lower loads but absent at higher loads ?
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2073 on: 2021-10-25, 19:55:14 »
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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-25, 19:03:17
This also explained why when you get blown out transistor when you think you barely applied voltage less than Vds max in the case of MOSFET

   I find that most of the mosfet that blow, do so because of excessive input voltages on the gates. I use 200v fets, and only give them 24v, but the gates can be affected by the HV or just too high a voltage/current on that gate. I use two different chokes on my set up as shown in the TopRuslan7 schematic.

   Itsu: Good to see you back, and posting.
   Well, Geo's video showing those wicked steamers from the connection to his induction circuit was something I did as well. That is not what I meant, sorry. And yes, those are some dangerous streamers, no doubt. But, he has other videos that are showing the controlable Akula Kacher circuit, and others showing the dead time on the controlable Kacher, also, which is causing those white streamers.
   It would really be best if Geo were to post the link to those videos himself. My memory is not what it used to be.
But, I'm counting on Geo, to show the way, and continue on with his kacher/grenade tests, again.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #2074 on: 2021-10-25, 20:14:34 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-10-25, 19:47:33
   Verpies:  Yes, of course. But, it may not be very noticeable nor significant unless there is enough load. For the reasons given previously.
  I would really need to study Itsu's video more closely. But, yes the dimming is the first thing to look into. He has already tuned to the supposed sync frequencies, but, once the dimming is solved it would be good to review the calculated sync frequencies, again, before doing what I do to find them.

  Again guys check out some of Geofusions last videos. To see how his controlable kacher works. As I believe his is the latest tech, with dead time controls, hot white streamers, and all.

   NickZ

Nick,

looking at that latest video from Geo, i doubt he is using a "controlable kacher".

What i understand he does is use an extra coil on the yoke to create AC, rectify that with 4 ultra fast diodes into 90 to 150V DC and use that on the primary of the kacher.
No wonder he has these massive streamers, but they are not controlled or timed or synced with the TL494 signal nor with the natural resonance of the Grenade / Inductor.

Its the same as your setup where you use "only" 24V on your kacher primary.


Itsu
   
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