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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 309217 times)
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img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1875 on: 2021-09-30, 12:56:33 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-09-30, 12:12:10
All these while what we have been trying to do is the combination of Capacitive Power Transfer (CPT) and Inductive Power Transfer (IPT)...
Do you mean ?:

  • transferring energy from a charged capacitor to a discharged capacitor.
or
  • transferring energy from a charged capacitor to a discharged inductor.
or
  • transferring energy from a charged inductor to a discharged capacitor.
or
  • transferring energy from a charged inductor to a discharged inductor.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1876 on: 2021-09-30, 13:26:28 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-09-30, 12:56:33
Do you mean ?:

  • transferring energy from a charged capacitor to a discharged capacitor.
or
  • transferring energy from a charged capacitor to a discharged inductor.
or
  • transferring energy from a charged inductor to a discharged capacitor.
or
  • transferring energy from a charged inductor to a discharged inductor.

What am saying is the gradient coil is the playing field where all actions takes place.

Electrostatic charges comes from the Tesla and the Inductive comes from inductor. These two when well aligned, as we tend to, play major rolls in power multiplication.

The gradient coil is the coupling element in this arrangement.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1877 on: 2021-09-30, 13:41:29 »

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One uses electric field while the other uses magnetic field. Usually, the output is the product of both. A lot have been able to achieve 3kw using this method.
« Last Edit: 2021-09-30, 16:47:10 by Maxolous »
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1878 on: 2021-09-30, 14:14:16 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-09-30, 13:26:28
Electrostatic charges comes from the Tesla and the Inductive comes from inductor. These two when well aligned, as we tend to, play major rolls in power multiplication.
The gradient coil is the coupling element in this arrangement.
Do you have any evidence for this ?
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1879 on: 2021-09-30, 16:44:14 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-09-30, 14:14:16
Do you have any evidence for this ?

I need not show any evidence.  You believe that is the more reason you are in it. I also believe too.
I am just suggesting a guide to any who wants to replicate this device.
« Last Edit: 2021-09-30, 17:56:32 by Maxolous »
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1880 on: 2021-10-01, 00:13:35 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-09-30, 16:44:14
I need not show any evidence.
Then this is an unsupported abstract conjecture.

Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-09-30, 16:44:14
I am just suggesting a guide to any who wants to replicate this device.
You have not made any statements which constitute a practical guide or engineering advice.

Did you build the device being discussed in this thread which implements your idea ...or are you asking that some other builder implements a particular engineering change* or measurement ?

* that has not been tried yet
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1881 on: 2021-10-01, 05:38:26 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-01, 00:13:35
Then this is an unsupported abstract conjecture.
You have not made any statements which constitute a practical guide or engineering advice.

Did you build the device being discussed in this thread which implements your idea ...or are you asking that some other builder implements a particular engineering change* or measurement ?

* that has not been tried yet

I was following the tread when men were enthusiastic about this device here and I couldn't log in for reasons I don't know. I wanted to contribute my own suggestions from the way I see things too.

I just managed to log in recently, but to realize that it seems men had lost hope or on holidays. I actually started the building of the device then I stopped as a result of time factor and I needed more things in place. I am currently putting things together to kick off attempt to replicate again. Unfortunately however, it seems men are giving up.

I waited for a scope which came few months ago am also waiting for signal gen. What I suggested will be guild line for me, so am sharing it.

Hope no offense!
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1882 on: 2021-10-01, 07:01:31 »
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Maxolous, if you go out and buy an SGencan i suggest you make sure it has a way of modulation or 2 channels.

Also have a look at the Vasik pointer to the Igorik device, it looks much more interesting.
if you also watch some of the Dave Adair vids on youtube you will pick up some of his ideas of how nature dose things.

regards Sil
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1883 on: 2021-10-01, 08:10:54 »

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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021-10-01, 07:01:31
Maxolous, if you go out and buy an SGencan i suggest you make sure it has a way of modulation or 2 channels.

Also have a look at the Vasik pointer to the Igorik device, it looks much more interesting.
if you also watch some of the Dave Adair vids on youtube you will pick up some of his ideas of how nature dose things.

regards Sil

Thanks so much for your information and encouragement.
Warm regards.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1884 on: 2021-10-01, 09:34:27 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-09-30, 12:12:10
All these while what we have been trying to do is the combination of Capacitive Power Transfer (CPT) and Inductive Power Transfer (IPT) to work in unison as a way of power multiplication. This topology is attracted so much attention in recent time. I believe it's used in charging in Electric Vehicles as of today.

The fact is , the kacher or tesla coil produces the electrostatic while the push-pull produces the Inductive charge.  control Tesla or kacher are used to match both signals.

Itsu complained of dim output when Tesla is switched on, I think that has to do with winding directions  I believe while you are following a general laid down procedure one as to bear in mind that every construction is unique on it's own.



Maxolous,

that general principle of how the device suppose to work is rather clear but unfortunately also rather vague, the problem is either in the details or that general principle is wrong.

I have made 2 different versions over the years (with all kind of modifications) but the outcomes are very similar in that the resonance peaks of the Grenade L5 and Inductor L4 are impossible to match, and when activating the kacher it dims the Grenade output.

But as you can see in this thread, there are so many variables and parameters that can be tuned that it is no wonder nobody here can show any results.

I still have the device on my bench and still am doing some modifications, but up till now i am stuck with where i was and thus nothing to report.

Also the fact that so little other builders are reporting anything is not encouraging, so hopefully you can add some enthusiasm to this thread.

Regards Itsu 
   
img  Maxolous
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1885 on: 2021-10-01, 10:34:06 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-10-01, 09:34:27


Maxolous,

that general principle of how the device suppose to work is rather clear but unfortunately also rather vague, the problem is either in the details or that general principle is wrong.

I have made 2 different versions over the years (with all kind of modifications) but the outcomes are very similar in that the resonance peaks of the Grenade L5 and Inductor L4 are impossible to match, and when activating the kacher it dims the Grenade output.

But as you can see in this thread, there are so many variables and parameters that can be tuned that it is no wonder nobody here can show any results.

I still have the device on my bench and still am doing some modifications, but up till now i am stuck with where i was and thus nothing to report.

Also the fact that so little other builders are reporting anything is not encouraging, so hopefully you can add some enthusiasm to this thread.

Regards Itsu

Thanks so much Itsu. I have been waiting to hear from you and I have been so hopeful especially when you show details of your expectations.

I have suggestions to make.

1. Why not check the natural frequency of your grenade . Presumably, L5 once again. In my case I use square wave signal set to Ikhz 12vdc. The frequency play vital role in everything to do with this device. My thinking.

Some people might want to use sine wave, which is better. By this you are looking for the maximum amplitude of signal.

2.Get a kacher, build one. They are all in the internet. Fly out the 4 terminals of your  inductor and grenade, that is L4 and L5. Connect diode bridge to your L5 and a voltimeter to read voltage at the range of 750-1000volts. Your Tesla coil should be  long enough to accommodate segmentation half way to "0"volts , maybe 7cm interval. Fire up the system and read voltage. You with come to a place that you will get maximum voltage in your voltimeter.

That place, more often than not, corresponds to your L5 freq. It might also be so if it's sub-harmonic of it or the grenade is sub-harmonic of the Tesla. Check which passes more current by connecting a bulb, preference, car light bulb.. you have just marked Tesla wire length. Slide to improve.

3. Take reading of your Tesla freq. by scope , some distance from antenna by using you cursor manually. Send power to your control Tesla, adjust frequency to same frequency of tesla coil freq. or resonance freq. of grenade. This ensures maximum power Transfer to Tesla and good coupling between Tesla and grenade.

4. Ensure the push-pull freq. is sub-harmonic of grenade,L5.

5. The purpose of kacher was delivered, you may disconnect it.

6. Set push-pull freq.naturally adjust to resonance with cap suggestion. Preferably, get some 100n/2kv polypropylene cap at hand.. keep adding them in parallel.

7. Do your CT tuning again, which you already know, this time adjust cap in L5 too.for this L5, get some handful of 10n/1kv

These are my laid down procedure I wish to follow.

It is worthy to note that your grenade freq. might be too low as expected, maybe in the range of 700khz and 900khz. Do what guitarist would do, make it harder. Then you increase frequency.
I think if you add aluminum foil it will step up frequency

I hope it will help.

Maxolous
   
img  Maxolous
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1886 on: 2021-10-01, 10:53:36 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-01, 10:34:06
Thanks so much Itsu. I have been waiting to hear from you and I have been so hopeful especially when you show details of your expectations.

I have suggestions to make.

1. Why not check the natural frequency of your grenade . Presumably, L5 once again. In my case I use square wave signal set to Ikhz 12vdc. The frequency play vital role in everything to do with this device. My thinking.

Some people might want to use sine wave, which is better. By this you are looking for the maximum amplitude of signal. If you're using square wave, you are looking for where it rings, that is the natural freq. You can also take your Q-factor there

2.Get a kacher, build one. They are all in the internet. Fly out the 4 terminals of your  inductor and grenade, that is L4 and L5. Connect diode bridge to your L5 and a voltimeter to read voltage at the range of 750-1000volts. Your Tesla coil should be  long enough to accommodate segmentation half way to "0"volts , maybe 7cm interval. Fire up the system and read voltage. You with come to a place that you will get maximum voltage in your voltimeter.

That place, more often than not, corresponds to your L5 freq. It might also be so if it's sub-harmonic of it or the grenade is sub-harmonic of the Tesla. Check which passes more current by connecting a bulb, preference, car light bulb.. you have just marked Tesla wire length. Slide to improve.

3. Take reading of your Tesla freq. by scope , some distance from antenna by using you cursor manually. Send power to your control Tesla, adjust frequency to same frequency of tesla coil freq. or resonance freq. of grenade. This ensures maximum power Transfer to Tesla and good coupling between Tesla and grenade.

4. Ensure the push-pull freq. is sub-harmonic of grenade,L5.

5. The purpose of kacher was delivered, you may disconnect it.

6. Set push-pull freq.naturally adjust to resonance with cap suggestion. Preferably, get some 100n/2kv polypropylene cap at hand.. keep adding them in parallel.

7. Do your CT tuning again, which you already know, this time adjust cap in L5 too.for this L5, get some handful of 10n/1kv

These are my laid down procedure I wish to follow.

It is worthy to note that your grenade freq. might be too low as expected, maybe in the range of 700khz and 900khz. Do what guitarist would do, make it harder. Then you increase frequency.
I think if you add aluminum foil it will step up frequency

I hope it will help.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1887 on: 2021-10-01, 11:50:56 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-01, 10:34:06
I have suggestions to make....
Now, these are proper engineering suggestions or a plan for building your own device.

Note, that most of what you are suggesting was already done by Itsu in this thread.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1888 on: 2021-10-01, 12:48:31 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-10-01, 11:50:56
Now, these are proper engineering suggestions or a plan for building your own device.

Note, that most of what you are suggesting was already done by Itsu in this thread.

Thanks@ Viepies.

I hope to see him do it again with faith and purpose.

One love!
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1889 on: 2021-10-01, 13:16:18 »

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@ Itsu,
Your 3Turns, when you pull out one terminal, does it increase overall voltage or decrease? If when you pull it out and it increases, it means you have to rewind it the otherwise.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1890 on: 2021-10-01, 13:56:03 »

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Quote from: Maxolous on 2021-10-01, 10:34:06
Thanks so much Itsu. I have been waiting to hear from you and I have been so hopeful especially when you show details of your expectations.

I have suggestions to make.

1. Why not check the natural frequency of your grenade . Presumably, L5 once again. In my case I use square wave signal set to Ikhz 12vdc. The frequency play vital role in everything to do with this device. My thinking.

Some people might want to use sine wave, which is better. By this you are looking for the maximum amplitude of signal.

2.Get a kacher, build one. They are all in the internet. Fly out the 4 terminals of your  inductor and grenade, that is L4 and L5. Connect diode bridge to your L5 and a voltimeter to read voltage at the range of 750-1000volts. Your Tesla coil should be  long enough to accommodate segmentation half way to "0"volts , maybe 7cm interval. Fire up the system and read voltage. You with come to a place that you will get maximum voltage in your voltimeter.

That place, more often than not, corresponds to your L5 freq. It might also be so if it's sub-harmonic of it or the grenade is sub-harmonic of the Tesla. Check which passes more current by connecting a bulb, preference, car light bulb.. you have just marked Tesla wire length. Slide to improve.

3. Take reading of your Tesla freq. by scope , some distance from antenna by using you cursor manually. Send power to your control Tesla, adjust frequency to same frequency of tesla coil freq. or resonance freq. of grenade. This ensures maximum power Transfer to Tesla and good coupling between Tesla and grenade.

4. Ensure the push-pull freq. is sub-harmonic of grenade,L5.

5. The purpose of kacher was delivered, you may disconnect it.

6. Set push-pull freq.naturally adjust to resonance with cap suggestion. Preferably, get some 100n/2kv polypropylene cap at hand.. keep adding them in parallel.

7. Do your CT tuning again, which you already know, this time adjust cap in L5 too.for this L5, get some handful of 10n/1kv

These are my laid down procedure I wish to follow.

It is worthy to note that your grenade freq. might be too low as expected, maybe in the range of 700khz and 900khz. Do what guitarist would do, make it harder. Then you increase frequency.
I think if you add aluminum foil it will step up frequency

I hope it will help.

Maxolous



Hi Maxolous,

Thanks for the suggestions, but like verpies also mentioned, much of them are already done / tried.

My natural frequency of the Grenade L5 (+ Inductor L4) is 1.22MHz, verified in several ways.

I tried several kacher secondaries and primaries, also wound CW or CCW (not sure what you mean with "fly out the 4 terminals....")

The grenade L5 output is in the range (after rectification) of 100 to 200V DC with a 100W bulb load which is OK to power the 220 / 24V feedback supply. 
750 to 1000V look somewhat high to me.

The Kacher frequency is tuned to the same 1.22MHz as the Grenade L5 and the push pull frequency is at 24.4KHz which is the 50th sub-harmonic of 1.22MHz.


 
Anyway, i will recheck those parameters again to make sure they are still valid.
The "segmentation in 7cm intervals" of the kacher secondary might be a good idea to try.


Quote
Your 3Turns, when you pull out one terminal, does it increase overall voltage or decrease? If when you pull it out and it increases, it means you have to rewind it the otherwise.

Not sure what you mean by "pull out one terminal", you mean open up this series circuit: 3t, cap, Inductor L4"?
Also what do you mean by "overall voltage"? Is it the Grenade L5 rectified output?


Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1891 on: 2021-10-01, 15:37:19 »
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   Itsu:
   There is something wrong with your devices (both the old one, and the new one). As they are just barely lighting any bulbs.
   You should be able to get the 750v plus unloaded voltage from the push pull, first off.
   And, you should also be able to light some bulbs, like 50w bulb with just the kacher going through all the rest of the circuits. At least at full duty cycle.  If not, then you need to look at why not. Because, I can do this, and I am not following any of the tuning tips provided by Vasik, nor anyone else, nor am I tuning to any fixed certain frequency. Perhaps that is why...as the other way, like you are following, and Vasik, did not work for me, either.
  Although I am not using a controlable Kacher circuit, as yet. But, I was hoping to at least be able to light a 100w bulb, using no batteries nor a PS with the simple Kacher, first. I may need to buy better tuning caps to continue, as well as trying to overlook any negative results or posts, for now, and just push ahead.

   NickZ

   PS. I would like to publicly apologise to Verpies, as it seems that I have offended him. That was never my intention, I just get upset when anyone tries to tell me what to do. Sorry, again.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1892 on: 2021-10-01, 16:00:28 »

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Hi Nick,

my unloaded voltage after rectification on the Grenade L5 output is 405V DC, which according to the Stalker video / data should be OK.

So you say that with only the kacher (uninterrupted) on, you can light up (full / dim?) a 50W bulb?
Where is this bulb connected to?      On the Grenade L5 output after the rectification?


Another question i am struggling with is the grounding point of the circuit, where do you have it?


Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1893 on: 2021-10-01, 16:15:06 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-10-01, 13:56:03


Hi Maxolous,

Thanks for the suggestions, but like verpies also mentioned, much of them are already done / tried.

My natural frequency of the Grenade L5 (+ Inductor L4) is 1.22MHz, verified in several ways.

I tried several kacher secondaries and primaries, also wound CW or CCW (not sure what you mean with "fly out the 4 terminals....")

The grenade L5 output is in the range (after rectification) of 100 to 200V DC with a 100W bulb load which is OK to power the 220 / 24V feedback supply. 
750 to 1000V look somewhat high to me.

The Kacher frequency is tuned to the same 1.22MHz as the Grenade L5 and the push pull frequency is at 24.4KHz which is the 50th sub-harmonic of 1.22MHz.


 
Anyway, i will recheck those parameters again to make sure they are still valid.
The "segmentation in 7cm intervals" of the kacher secondary might be a good idea to try.


Not sure what you mean by "pull out one terminal", you mean open up this series circuit: 3t, cap, Inductor L4"?
Also what do you mean by "overall voltage"? Is it the Grenade L5 rectified output?


Itsu

@Itsu,

What I suggested is to set your voltimeter to 750-1000v range and fire only your katcher not your controllable Tesla. I said if you don't have one build one. Connect diode bridge( fast recovery one) across L5 terminals then, read voltage. You should get up to 400vdc by adjusting Tesla earth through your segmentations. There will be a place of maximum voltage in your voltimeter. Your L4 terminals may be disconnected while doing this or short circuited.

To be sure, connect car bulb 55w will be enough and see brightness level. If not convinced, continue to adjust.

I did mentioned pulling out 3turns wire, this is to see if it's in the right direction. While doing this only push-pull will be on. Your bulb (100w)will let you know if winding is right.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1894 on: 2021-10-01, 18:37:28 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-10-01, 16:00:28
Hi Nick,

my unloaded voltage after rectification on the Grenade L5 output is 405V DC, which according to the Stalker video / data should be OK.

So you say that with only the kacher (uninterrupted) on, you can light up (full / dim?) a 50W bulb?
Where is this bulb connected to?      On the Grenade L5 output after the rectification?


Another question i am struggling with is the grounding point of the circuit, where do you have it?


Itsu

Consider the system as a capacitor where the grenade is the second plate, as that, it has to be connected to the general mass of the ground where you have reservoir of electrons. That's the cold end.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1895 on: 2021-10-01, 20:36:08 »

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I will build the segmented kacher secondary later, but for now i tested the Grenade L5 output with a 100W bulb to be 241V DC pulling 9A from the 24V input PS (216W).

Then when opening up the 3 turn coil to the Inductor L4, still using the 100W bulb as load, the voltage (and brightness of the bulb) went down to 118V DC pulling 2.55A from the 24V input PS (61W).


You mentioned earlier:

Quote
"Your 3Turns, when you pull out one terminal, does it increase overall voltage or decrease? If when you pull it out and it increases, it means you have to rewind it the otherwise."

so this means then that i do not have to rewind anything.


Thanks for the hint on the ground, so you suggest to ground the Grenades L5 on its cold side meaning between L5 and L2 see red indications in below diagram, right?



Itsu
   
img  Maxolous
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1896 on: 2021-10-01, 21:14:10 »

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@Itsu,
Nice that your 3turns is in order.
Don't forget to earth the cold side of Tesla coil too!
If done you should hear louder hissing sound

Warm regards.

Maxolous
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1897 on: 2021-10-01, 21:26:58 »

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If you wish you can also follow that line till before the L5 cap and make your earthling there. That's if you are not comfortable doing it there.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1898 on: 2021-10-02, 00:37:22 »
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   Itsu:
   Earth grounding, depends on what type of Kacher circuit one is using. The simple kacher that I have, connects the ground line to the transistor emitter.
You then have to test to see if connecting the ground anywhere else helps, or not. Just try it out for yourself. But, if you have the other type of controlable kacher circuit, then the emiiter is not the place to connect to, but, to the lower end of the kacher secondary, instead. As you mention having it.
   Itsu, it can take me days to get any kind of sync. Not easy...dont' give up. You'll get it... Look and listen for Radio Moscow, that tells you are close.
But, you need to get the sync right first otherwise, its no cigar. That is the final and hardest part. Building the push pull or the kacher circuit are a piece of cake. Not so, the sync.

   NickZ
   
img  AlienGrey
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1899 on: 2021-10-02, 07:14:49 »
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Max some interesting ideaa you hav, so let me re cooperate what your sugesting.

You say your Katcher resonates at 1.2mhz, and so does your Grenade. Then you have your push pull running at 1/50 of that frequency.
so if I subtract that from the 1.2mhz or whatever what frequency do I get ? Also how are you locking the 2 frequencys ?

One has to ask is your device actuly producing energy at the output ?

In case I have it wrong can you draw a block diagram and please label it ?

Many thanks Sil
   
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