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OverUnity Research > Benches > AlienGrey > Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench
2024-11-26, 08:27:37
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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 309932 times)
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img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #800 on: 2021-06-06, 16:11:40 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-06, 14:05:18
I found the ferrite squeal interesting in these old videos.
According to Alexeev this is not ferrite, it's gradient coil.

BTW what so interesting in ferrite squeal ? just a magnetostriction effect

Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #801 on: 2021-06-06, 16:16:10 »
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    Verpies:
    Me too. Radio Moscow, alive and well, after all these years.
    If I don't hear it that "ferrite squeal", I know that I have no interaction between the Kacher and yoke/grenade circuits.
    Yet, Ruslan has never shown having that sound on any of his videos, so, it makes me wonder... to squeal, or not to squeal.

    Vasik: Oh, the grenade squeal...  I think that the whole device is making that sound. What is so interesting? Everything about it.
Itsu says that Radio Moscow has been off the air for quite a while.   I know, it's,  not funny...

   My video on that sound: https://youtu.be/9UxOvZatzKY  Remember that I'm just using a simple Kacher, with the feed back circuit connected up, also. The blinking is caused by the feed back circuit. I don't get enough juice at the feed back PS, to fire her up by itself.

   NickZ
   
img  AlienGrey
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #802 on: 2021-06-06, 16:37:29 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-06, 14:05:18
I found the ferrite squeal interesting in these old videos.
Yes  they are, it's one of Alex Sergey's devices, I have one of these boards
it has an inductor in the Tesla coils base circuit any one know what size it should be
it has 1/3 on the board so any one have a formula or inside knowledge on that device ?

Regards SIL
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #803 on: 2021-06-06, 18:15:59 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-06, 16:11:40
According to Alexeev this is not ferrite, it's gradient coil.
Nah, the ferrite sound is very characteristic.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-06, 16:11:40
BTW what so interesting in ferrite squeal ?
MS/Villari effect, NAR and modulation of the ferrite's permeability by E-field from the Kacher outlined in the attached article.
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #804 on: 2021-06-06, 18:30:48 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-06, 18:15:59
Nah, the ferrite sound is very characteristic.

You never heard that air core coil produce sound like this ? ;)
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #805 on: 2021-06-06, 19:12:09 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-06, 18:30:48
You never heard that air core coil produce sound like this ? ;)
Never without a HV discharge in air that heats up and expands the air rapidly.
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #806 on: 2021-06-06, 20:02:55 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-06, 19:12:09
Never without a HV discharge in air that heats up and expands the air rapidly.

Ultrasound often present in these devices, sometimes sub harmonics became audible.

Vasik
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #807 on: 2021-06-06, 20:12:06 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-06, 20:02:55
Ultrasound often present in these devices, sometimes sub harmonics became audible.
When I mentioned "heating up and expanding the air rapidly by HV discharge" I did not restrict it to non-ultrasonic frequencies.
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #808 on: 2021-06-06, 20:51:54 »
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   On my video, at minute 3:00 on you can see that when I just turn on the inductor, (without the Kacher), there is already a sound similar to when I turn on the Kacher. So, even without the Kacher on, there is a Radio Moscow type sound, even without the HV. One guy calls that the "fried chicken sound".
Then when the Kacher is turned on, the sound intensifies. But, the frequency stays the same on the scope.
   Also some of the audible signal noises are actually heard "ringing" at lower harmonic frequencies compared to their source signals. As Vasik, mentions.
   I can't hear anything above 11.5KHz, because, I'm getting old. 69 plus...and using no hearing aids, no glasses, nor needing Viagra, as yet.
However, I can hear the sweet tune from Radio Moscow...
 
 
   NickZ
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #809 on: 2021-06-06, 21:16:20 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-06-06, 20:51:54
   On my video, at minute 3:00 on you can see that when I just turn on the inductor, (without the Kacher), there is already a sound similar to when I turn on the Kacher.
What is the source and mechanism of sound generation in your opinion?

Quote from: NickZ on 2021-06-06, 20:51:54
So, even without the Kacher on, there is a Radio Moscow type sound, even without the HV.
So the HV discharge air heating is not responsible for the generation of air pressure waves (sound) ...unlike in this video.

Quote from: NickZ on 2021-06-06, 20:51:54
Also some of the audible signal noises are actually heard "ringing" at lower harmonic frequencies compared to their source signals. As Vasik, mentions.
Are you sure the source signals do not contain audible frequency components?
If "yes" - what mechanism is responsible for downconverting these frequencies into the audible range ?
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #810 on: 2021-06-06, 21:44:43 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-06, 21:16:20
What is the source and mechanism of sound generation in your opinion?
So the HV discharge air heating is not responsible for the generation of air pressure waves (sound) ...unlike in this video.
Are you sure the source signals do not contain audible frequency components?
If "yes" - what mechanism is responsible for downconverting these frequencies into the audible range ?


   Verpies:  I wish that I was sure enough to answer your questions, but at this time, I'm just observing the results. And trying to learn what works, and what doesn't.
   I think, that the sound originates as a vibration caused by the heart of the system, the yoke, as Vasik mentioned, and for his reasons, as well.
But then also resonates throughout the whole devise, as well as with any thing metal, close by it. Whether that sound or vibrations are what is needed for self running or not, as a result of harvesting the BEMF, is not known as yet. And that is one thing what we need to verify. So, I can't say what is, or is not responsible for that sound, at this time. But, many of the working replications are showing that they too have that sound going on. But, not all.
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #811 on: 2021-06-07, 08:28:23 »

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Zooming in on the Kacher transistor collector signal,   do i understand correctly that the working kacher collector signal is shown in blue in the "effect.pdf" video see screenshot 1 below?


Mine is completly different and looks more like the end kacher signal (tapering of ringing), see screenshots 2 and 3.

I do have a 470uF / 400V and a 0,1uF ceramic capacitor close to the kacher primary coil plus voltage lead (40V) to ground.

Itsu 
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #812 on: 2021-06-07, 08:44:12 »
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Itsu,

I think it is a controlled Tesla coil in the video.
But you signal looks strange. Did you connect coils correctly ?
Kacher collector will look like on these photos (top) and HV coil voltage (bottom)

Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #813 on: 2021-06-07, 09:11:07 »

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Hmmmm,    i see a blue 778KHz signal from the kacher secondary (HV coil) which i understand (kind of low in freqeuncy), but the yellow pulsed signal (collector) is also at 778KHz!

I would expect it to be much lower in repetition frequency, like 20KHz or 24KHz as in my case.


Anyway, my signal is way off, and as mentioned before, the kacher is not really working as expected, so something must be wrong here.

Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #814 on: 2021-06-07, 09:24:39 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-07, 09:11:07
Hmmmm,    i see a blue 778KHz signal from the kacher secondary (HV coil) which i understand (kind of low in freqeuncy), but the yellow pulsed signal (collector) is also at 778KHz!
I would expect it to be much lower in repetition frequency, like 20KHz or 24KHz as in my case.
Anyway, my signal is way off, and as mentioned before, the kacher is not really working as expected, so something must be wrong here.

These pictures from different setup, so please don't pay attention to frequency, but shape should be like this inside the pulse burst.
You can try swap primary coil ends, usually this helps.

Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #815 on: 2021-06-07, 17:29:54 »

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I tried that off course, but it did not change much.

Seems the base signal was not adequate to drive the transistor, so using a 470K resistor as load (with 40V on the collector) i was able to get a stable collector signal on 24.4KHz by adjusting the trimmer pots
RV5 and RV7.

But after reinstalling the primary kacher coil, the 24V PS1 feeding the PCB went out with a bang while the 40V PS2 for the collector was fine.

I have had this before with this voltcraft dual PS so these are not very stable when some HF is entering it.

 
So i have some repairing to do.

Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #816 on: 2021-06-07, 17:58:26 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-07, 17:29:54
I tried that off course, but it did not change much.

Seems the base signal was not adequate to drive the transistor, so using a 470K resistor as load (with 40V on the collector) i was able to get a stable collector signal on 24.4KHz by adjusting the trimmer pots
RV5 and RV7.

But after reinstalling the primary kacher coil, the 24V PS1 feeding the PCB went out with a bang while the 40V PS2 for the collector was fine.
I have had this before with this voltcraft dual PS so these are not very stable when some HF is entering it.
So i have some repairing to do.
Itsu

Oh oh, I hope it is repairable  :(

Kacher tuning usually done so that you switch modulation off (set TC signal to +12v), disconnect HV coil from the transistor base and adjust base resistors (R16, R17) so that collector current is 100-200ma (more current = more power)

Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #817 on: 2021-06-07, 18:24:28 »
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    Itsu:

    Seams like your Kacher signal was not a DC signal, compared to the one that Vasik shared above.
    Can you control the number of bursts? Like 3 to 5 bursts? Are you getting any sparks or streams yet, at the antenna?

    It does sound like your 5200 transistor's base voltage is probably too low, but that should be easy enough to fix. It will heat up if that voltage gets too high on it, as well.
    Sorry to hear about your PS, I hope that it's something easy to fix, like the fuse. I had to replace the fets on my older PS and some other stuff, also. They do that if they get too hot. Especially the El Cheapo ones from China. And the 12v 7ah batteries don't last too long here, as well. They are made to dissolve in about two years.

    NickZ
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #818 on: 2021-06-07, 18:56:13 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-07, 17:29:54
Have had this before with this Voltcraft dual PS so these are not very stable when some HF is entering it.
What broke in it this time?
How will you prevent the HF from entering the fragile PS again? - choke the chicken ?
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #819 on: 2021-06-07, 20:10:58 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-07, 17:58:26
Oh oh, I hope it is repairable  :(

Kacher tuning usually done so that you switch modulation off (set TC signal to +12v), disconnect HV coil from the transistor base and adjust base resistors (R16, R17) so that collector current is 100-200ma (more current = more power)

Vasik


I hope so too its repairable.

Not sure what you mean by "switch modulation off (set TC signal to +12v)" can you explain?

Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #820 on: 2021-06-07, 20:12:33 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-06-07, 18:24:28
    Itsu:

    Seams like your Kacher signal was not a DC signal, compared to the one that Vasik shared above.
    Can you control the number of bursts? Like 3 to 5 bursts? Are you getting any sparks or streams yet, at the antenna?

    It does sound like your 5200 transistor's base voltage is probably too low, but that should be easy enough to fix. It will heat up if that voltage gets too high on it, as well.
    Sorry to hear about your PS, I hope that it's something easy to fix, like the fuse. I had to replace the fets on my older PS and some other stuff, also. They do that if they get too hot. Especially the El Cheapo ones from China. And the 12v 7ah batteries don't last too long here, as well. They are made to dissolve in about two years.

    NickZ

Nick,

When looking at my screenshot in post #811, you can see that the collector was on +40V DC with some ringing on it.

This setup does not generate bursts, it just turns the Kacher on/off briefly and let it ring for a time generating some decaying peaks.
I understand that the ferrite transformer between kacher and antenna should minimize the ringing and limit it to about 5 cycles.

No sparks or streams noticed, but that "bang" came after 0.3ms when i turned on the kacher......


Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #821 on: 2021-06-07, 20:13:47 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-07, 18:56:13
What broke in it this time?
How will you prevent the HF from entering the fragile PS again? - choke the chicken ?

At first glance i see a MOSFET with a piece of its casting of from its lower right side, so it looks similar as the other PS failure i had back then.
Then i had to replace both of those MOSFETs (push pull) and their gate zeners / resistors:
see:  https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg420511/#msg420511

So i guess its repairable, but its a pain to get that PCB module out as lots of control wires are soldered closely onto it.

Need some good choking and decoupling done to prevent it from happening again.

Its a dual PS on which you can put both PS's in series, parallel, individual etc. so lots of control wires running all over the place which makes it sensitive for HF being picked up.


Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #822 on: 2021-06-07, 20:35:03 »
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Itsu,

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-07, 20:10:58
Not sure what you mean by "switch modulation off (set TC signal to +12v)" can you explain?

I think you have 4093 chips installed into sockets, so take U10 out and pull TC signal (pins 10,12,13) to +12v (pin 14)
with 1k resistor. This should turn kacher into continuous mode.
Disconnect HV coil end from the base. Leave primary coil in place.
Transistor will act as a current source. Adjust current with R17 and if necessary with R16.

Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #823 on: 2021-06-07, 21:14:39 »

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Yes, chips are in sockets, so i can do that.


Meanwhile i have used another PS set (24V / 12V) to power the pcb (24V) and the kacher (12) just to see how the signals are.
I do have some more HF now at the kacher / antenna as it partly lights up a fluor lamp and the NE-2 neon.

But the collector signal is far from perfect, see screenshot 1 and video:  https://youtu.be/f6HqwP3DkFw

The HV at the antenna is also more in line with what it should be (1.5KV), when attaching the HV probe to the antenna end, see screenshot 2

Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #824 on: 2021-06-08, 05:54:54 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-07, 21:14:39
Yes, chips are in sockets, so i can do that.
Meanwhile i have used another PS set (24V / 12V) to power the pcb (24V) and the kacher (12) just to see how the signals are.
I do have some more HF now at the kacher / antenna as it partly lights up a fluor lamp and the NE-2 neon.
But the collector signal is far from perfect, see screenshot 1 and video:  https://youtu.be/f6HqwP3DkFw
The HV at the antenna is also more in line with what it should be (1.5KV), when attaching the HV probe to the antenna end, see screenshot 2

Itsu,

I think it is working ok. This (see attached screenshot) looks similar to pictures I posted.
You need find optimal number of pulses - how many pulses needed to reach maximum amplitude.
Also you can add small capacitor across primary, it will increase output voltage.
You need reach 4KV on antenna...and once more time I advice you - do not connect things to HV end, it detunes everything :)

Vasik
   
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