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OverUnity Research > Benches > AlienGrey > Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench
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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 310023 times)
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img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #750 on: 2021-05-31, 23:31:46 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-31, 20:42:10
Nick,

Those last screenshots where taken with a cross in the inductor leads as compared to the drawing i showed.
How are your coils hooked up, similar as that drawing or do you have a cross in it somewhere too?


I am now back to exactly that drawing, and have again the 180° phase shift on the Grenade current the moment i get into resonance on the inductor current.
The problem is that at that same moment, the grenade current dips and the bulb(s) go out.

Itsu


   Itsu:  My yoke secondary windings seam to be the inverse or opposite to the way they are shown in the diagram.
I use 12 and 12t primary, 26 or 28t secondary, and 3 or 4t secondary, on a 3 inch plus sized yoke. At the time I followed Ruslan's Top Ruslan 7 schematic and general lay out.
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #751 on: 2021-06-01, 05:45:09 »
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Itsu,

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-31, 20:42:10
The problem is that at that same moment, the grenade current dips and the bulb(s) go out.

May be it is good instead ?
We are not supposed to power load with push pull.

vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #752 on: 2021-06-01, 09:01:10 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-05-31, 23:31:46

   Itsu:  My yoke secondary windings seam to be the inverse or opposite to the way they are shown in the diagram.
I use 12 and 12t primary, 26 or 28t secondary, and 3 or 4t secondary, on a 3 inch plus sized yoke. At the time I followed Ruslan's Top Ruslan 7 schematic and general lay out.

Nick,  thanks,     both opposite means  they should produce the same phase signal, not 180° out of phase like mine when both are wound the same.

Anyway, who knows yet what is right.

Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #753 on: 2021-06-01, 09:01:57 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-01, 05:45:09
Itsu,

May be it is good instead ?
We are not supposed to power load with push pull.

vasik

Yes,   good point.

So the only way to know what is good or bad is to build up the whole system including kacher, feedback to 24V PS, good ground etc. and see if it will work on its own.

Itsu
   
img  AlienGrey
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #754 on: 2021-06-01, 11:33:43 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-05-31, 23:13:39
This is not a standing wave. This is an amplitude modulated HF signal.
A standing wave has space on the horizontal axis - this wave has time.
Is it ? I thought any wave thats locked to a reflection is a standing wave ring modulated or not ?

have you got a screen shot of one, struth is this subject confusing with different definitions coming in.
but thanks for the definition.


SIL
   
img  picowatt
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #755 on: 2021-06-01, 13:43:55 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-05-31, 23:13:39
This is not a standing wave. This is an amplitude modulated HF signal.

Or the sum of two HF signals offset in frequency by the apparent modulation frequency.

Quote
A standing wave has space on the horizontal axis - this wave has time.
Huh?

PW
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #756 on: 2021-06-01, 14:47:10 »
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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-01, 05:45:09
Itsu,

May be it is good instead ?
We are not supposed to power load with push pull.

vasik



   Vasik:  Yes, I agree. Depending on how things are wired, it may be normal and good that something like the bulbs going out happens.
And yes, the only way to know is to connect up the Kacher, earth ground line, feed back PS, and retune again, to see what happens at the output, then.  Stand back and watch for smoke.  Just kidding...  I hope.
Geofusion, also had something similar happen, but when the kacher was turned on also, bingo, the bulbs would light up.

   Itsu:  Sorry, after further observations on my yoke windings, I find that both secondaries are really like the diagram (not crossed).
It was a bit hard to tell, before. And I didn't know what "cross" referred to. But, now I think that I know. Sorry again, for the wrong info.

   NickZ
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #757 on: 2021-06-01, 14:53:55 »

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Quote from: picowatt on 2021-06-01, 13:43:55
Or the sum of two HF signals offset in frequency by the apparent modulation frequency.
Of course

Quote from: picowatt on 2021-06-01, 13:43:55
Huh?
See my answer to AlienGrey below:
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #758 on: 2021-06-01, 15:08:11 »

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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021-06-01, 11:33:43
have you got a screen shot of one, struth is this subject confusing with different definitions coming in.
Standing wave looks like this when the horizontal axis denotes space:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Half-open_pipe_wave.gif
Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench


Because oscilloscopes do NOT depict space on their horizontal axis in the YT mode, the standing wave cannot be visualized like this on their displays without moving the probe uniformly and synchronously.

If you sample* the electric field of this standing wave at one point with one channel of the scope, you will obtain an ordinary stationary sinusoidal trace when the scope is triggered at an edge or a voltage level.



* except at the nodes (red dots).
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #759 on: 2021-06-02, 20:01:45 »

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I did severall Grenade / Inductor series resonance tests using severall value's of series capacitors.

Combinations tried are:
24.4 / 122KHz,
24.4 / 24.4Khz,
122  / 24.4KHz,
12.2 / 24.4KHz


Best results (as compared to the severall Stalker video's / screenshots) is the 24.4 / 24.4Khz combination.

So i will continue with that combination for the time being.

Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #760 on: 2021-06-02, 20:13:56 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-02, 20:01:45
I did several Grenade / Inductor series resonance tests using several value's of series capacitors.
Which blocks have not been included in this experiment?  24V PS, ground lead, ... anything else?
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #761 on: 2021-06-02, 20:33:59 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-02, 20:13:56
Which blocks have not been built yet for this experiment?  24V PS, ground lead, ... anything else?



   Kacher circuit in sync with the TL494IN signal?  It's getting exciting now ... holding my breath...

   NickZ
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #762 on: 2021-06-02, 20:45:27 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-06-02, 20:33:59
Kacher circuit ...  It's getting exciting now
that is dangerous to his equipment.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #763 on: 2021-06-02, 20:53:28 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-02, 20:01:45
I did severall Grenade / Inductor series resonance tests using severall value's of series capacitors.

Combinations tried are:
24.4 / 122KHz,
24.4 / 24.4Khz,
122  / 24.4KHz,
12.2 / 24.4KHz


Best results (as compared to the severall Stalker video's / screenshots) is the 24.4 / 24.4Khz combination.



   Itsu:
   So that, is again somewhat similar to my best results, at around 19KHz, for both.
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #764 on: 2021-06-02, 21:03:30 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-02, 20:45:27
that is dangerous to his equipment.



   Yes, to every ones equipment.  Maybe that's why Ruslan said that the HV doesn't have to be very strong, to do it's job. I agree.
The HV, HF is everywhere, including all over the push pull components, and lower rated caps, ground line, etc... nothing stops it.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #765 on: 2021-06-02, 21:22:41 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-02, 20:13:56
Which blocks have not been included in this experiment?  24V PS, ground lead, ... anything else?


Ground lead was connected all the time, but no kacher and no 24V PS feedback.

And yes,  the kacher is synced with the (delayed) TL494 signal.

Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #766 on: 2021-06-03, 05:26:05 »
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Itsu,

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-02, 20:01:45
I did several Grenade / Inductor series resonance tests using several value's of series capacitors.
Combinations tried are:
24.4 / 122KHz,
24.4 / 24.4Khz,
122  / 24.4KHz,
12.2 / 24.4KHz
Best results (as compared to the several Stalker video's / screenshots) is the 24.4 / 24.4Khz combination.
So i will continue with that combination for the time being.

Was you able to get 30 degree phase shift between currents ?

In one of the videos, Alexeev says that tuning to same frequency is ok, but it will be de-tuning if you change load.

Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #767 on: 2021-06-03, 09:13:57 »

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No not really 30°, but my used current probes are all showing different phases compared to each other, so its hard to see.

The current transformer toroid (Green) used in the Inductor circuit gets very hot, so probably heavily saturated.

Itsu
   
img  picowatt
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #768 on: 2021-06-03, 14:04:51 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-06-01, 15:08:11
...
Because oscilloscopes do NOT depict space on their horizontal axis in the YT mode, the standing wave cannot be visualized like this on their displays without moving the probe uniformly and synchronously.
...

Thanks Verpies,

I misread your use of the word "space" to mean a gap or discontinuity instead of the intended meaning of length or volume.

PW 
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #769 on: 2021-06-03, 20:28:21 »
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Itsu,

I would like to confirm how you wound gradient coil, is it like shown in attached picture ?
Blue arrows show how layer was wound.

Thanks,
Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #770 on: 2021-06-03, 21:04:46 »

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Hi Vasik,

yes that is correct.

Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #771 on: 2021-06-03, 21:10:42 »

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Question about ground,   it is only connected to the Emitter of the 2SC5200 (which is also connected to the return/minus plane of the PCB), right?

Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #772 on: 2021-06-04, 06:01:11 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-03, 21:10:42
Question about ground,   it is only connected to the Emitter of the 2SC5200 (which is also connected to the return/minus plane of the PCB), right?

Itsu

Yes, I think so.
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #773 on: 2021-06-04, 06:04:53 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-03, 21:04:46
Hi Vasik,

yes that is correct.

Itsu

And you don't see any other resonances between 1.2 and 5.6 MHz ?
Like 2.3 MHz ?

Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #774 on: 2021-06-04, 09:05:31 »

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Well,  according to this post: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91340#msg91340         there is a smaller resonance around 3.8MHz.

But i can recheck following that used procedure.


Itsu
   
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