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OverUnity Research > Benches > AlienGrey > Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench
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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 309923 times)
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img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #725 on: 2021-05-30, 08:14:48 »
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I tried simulating this in LTSpice.
If I get resonance on inductor with 0.7uF then to resonate both inductor and grenade I need 0.35uF
Grenade current phase depends on load and I can't get it 30 degrees ahead of inductor.
Coupling coefficient probably different from real coil, but I don't think it makes major difference.
Perhaps tuning for two frequencies wasn't bad idea after all.

So, I think we have two options now
- go back to two frequencies variant
- do not tune grenade into resonance, just put there some small cap to keep HF circuit closed

Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #726 on: 2021-05-30, 09:34:55 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-05-29, 23:38:28
So the purple current is maximized when the blue current is minimized and 180º out of phase.
I wonder what would happen if you reversed the coupling between them.

Yes,   wondering the same, will try it.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #727 on: 2021-05-30, 09:36:40 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-05-30, 08:14:48
I tried simulating this in LTSpice.
If I get resonance on inductor with 0.7uF then to resonate both inductor and grenade I need 0.35uF
Grenade current phase depends on load and I can't get it 30 degrees ahead of inductor.
Coupling coefficient probably different from real coil, but I don't think it makes major difference.
Perhaps tuning for two frequencies wasn't bad idea after all.

So, I think we have two options now
- go back to two frequencies variant
- do not tune grenade into resonance, just put there some small cap to keep HF circuit closed

Vasik

Good idea to simulate.

I can try the 12.2 / 24.4KHz relation as mentioned earlier.

Itsu 
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #728 on: 2021-05-30, 10:26:43 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-30, 09:36:40
I can try the 12.2 / 24.4KHz relation as mentioned earlier.

I guess it will be similar to 122Khz/24Khz mode.

Vasik
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #729 on: 2021-05-30, 11:33:28 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-05-30, 08:14:48
I tried simulating this in LTSpice.
Please name the L1, L2, L3.
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #730 on: 2021-05-30, 11:42:33 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-05-30, 11:33:28
Please name the L1, L2, L3.

Isn't that obvious ?
L1 - inductor
L2 - gradient coil
L3 - 3 turns coil on yoke

Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #731 on: 2021-05-30, 11:53:16 »

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I miss the 18 turn coil (on yoke) in series with the grenade (gradient coil).
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #732 on: 2021-05-30, 12:13:04 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-30, 11:53:16
I miss the 18 turn coil (on yoke) in series with the grenade (gradient coil).

Yes, you right.
Do you know what is it inductance ?

Vasik
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #733 on: 2021-05-30, 12:41:09 »
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May be something like this ?
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #734 on: 2021-05-30, 16:19:17 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-05-30, 12:13:04
Yes, you right.
Do you know what is it inductance ?

Vasik

Its 124uH @ 10KHz.   

L3 (5 turn coil) measures 13.5uH @ 10KHz
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #735 on: 2021-05-30, 16:38:01 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-30, 09:34:55
Quote from: verpies on 2021-05-29, 23:38:28
So the purple current is maximized when the blue current is minimized and 180º out of phase.
I wonder what would happen if you reversed the coupling between them.

Yes,   wondering the same, will try it.


This changes a lot, both currents now peak around the same (22.2KHz, a little low) frequency with almost no phase shift between them:

Using the current transformer (purple for inductor) and the AC current probe (blue for grenade) again in screenshot 1.

Using the single AC/DC current probe  (measuring one after the other, white Inductor, green grenade) in screenshot 2.

Like they work together now instead of fighting each other.

Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #736 on: 2021-05-30, 17:13:51 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-30, 16:19:17
Its 124uH @ 10KHz.   

L3 (5 turn coil) measures 13.5uH @ 10KHz

With proper inductance values 0.7uF and 0.35uF gives more or less stable result.
Not sure if it has any practical value.

Vasik
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #737 on: 2021-05-30, 21:28:54 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-30, 16:38:01
Like they work together now instead of fighting each other.
Now, the authors should clarify which configuration was intended.
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #738 on: 2021-05-30, 21:36:50 »

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Yes, that would be nice.

I now have a cross of the 5(3) turn secondary compared to the drawing below.

Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #739 on: 2021-05-31, 09:04:20 »
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Here a transcript of Alexeev's video about tuning here.
May be it helps.

Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #740 on: 2021-05-31, 09:38:47 »

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Thanks Vasik,

so he uses a ½ wave length inductor (19m) instead of my ¼ wave.

Also he mentions the difference in resonance frequency when the grenade and inductor work together or separate like i notice.

The 180° phase shift he mentions at 2:10 is also interesting which leads me to think that the 180° phase shift i saw earlier (before i swapped the inductor leads) is needed.

But the remark at 3:25 about the grenade winding direction (now in one direction) confuses me again.


Anyway, guess i wire it up again as i had (according to the diagram) and try to match up the resonance frequencies of grenade and inductor.


Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #741 on: 2021-05-31, 11:39:50 »
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Itsu,

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-31, 09:38:47
But the remark at 3:25 about the grenade winding direction (now in one direction) confuses me again.

I think this is old video and he reefers to some previous versions of gradient coil windings.
So you can safely ignore it.
Also about inductor length, my understanding is that both 1/4 and 1/2 will work.

Vasik
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #742 on: 2021-05-31, 11:59:58 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-05-31, 11:39:50
Also about inductor length, my understanding is that both 1/4 and 1/2 will work.
...and that surprises me because 1/4 wavelength devices usually behave diametrically oppositely to 1/2 wavelength devices.
« Last Edit: 2021-05-31, 13:39:22 by verpies »
   
img  AlienGrey
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #743 on: 2021-05-31, 15:57:15 »
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Hi all Question, has any one sucsesfuly managed to create the standing wave yet ?

Regards  Sil
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #744 on: 2021-05-31, 16:26:45 »
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  And it may get even more confusing, if we keep going from one guy's build to the other guy's build. 
  If Stalker's way doesn't work, (and it didn't for me), then what? Three different guys got the simple kacher working towards self running, but, I could not.
  All of these variation are copies of Akula's work, redone by Ruslan, and replicated by different people in their own way.
  So, it seams to me that the only actual relation between the inductor/grenade/ and the Kacher, Is Luck. I have not seen it line up in the way that some people believe it should. And every ones device is running at different frequencies, winding with different wire, and different cores, and caps, and...what's with the 37.5 or 40, or 41meter grenades. Is that a magic number, as well?
BTW, I do use the 1/2 wave inductor. I've also tried the 1/4 wave, as well, but it did not do as well as the 1/2 wave inductor.
And also the location, may have everything to do with it. Guys living in the US maybe not be able to use the same exact frequencies as in Russia.
  Makes me wonder if Kapanadze knew about all this stuff. And then some guys make it work without a needing the grenade, or having to use two separate circuits, but just needed one combined circuit. Again, if true, like with the Roma (Poma) device. I realize that some guys here many not know about him. Nor do I want to further confuse the issue, so I'll leave it at that.

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2021-05-31, 20:06:41 by NickZ »
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #745 on: 2021-05-31, 19:08:02 »

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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021-05-31, 15:57:15
Hi all Question, has any one sucsesfuly managed to create the standing wave yet ?
"Standing wave" on a scope's display ...or a standing wave somewhere else ?
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #746 on: 2021-05-31, 19:54:56 »
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   Perhaps, the question is, are any of these standing waves actually essential, and make for self running? And, why at those frequencies?
As, I've never seen a video of a self runner reading @ 24KHz.

   Any ways,  itsu, seams like your scope shots are now looking very similar to mine, when you tune both circuits to the same frequency. Although, I'm just a little lower in frequency, at around 19Khz or so.
   I tune the 18.75m inductor first, by finding which 1000-2000v WIMA caps provide for the highest output voltage there. At least a single 0.47uf, then adding more on top. Then, I do the same for the grenade's output. I don't look for set frequencies. Nor have I found any that work for me. Just my own tinkering and tuning efforts. I just wish that I had a whole assortment of those German made WIMA caps to tune with, as that would really help.
   Remember that tuning should be done with the Earth ground line, attached. At least, that's what I think. Your views are on all this, are always very welcome.

   Vasik: Thanks for the tip on who's scope shot that was. Yet, it is different from all the rest, as always.
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #747 on: 2021-05-31, 20:42:10 »

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Nick,

Those last screenshots where taken with a cross in the inductor leads as compared to the drawing i showed.
How are your coils hooked up, similar as that drawing or do you have a cross in it somewhere too?


I am now back to exactly that drawing, and have again the 180° phase shift on the Grenade current the moment i get into resonance on the inductor current.
The problem is that at that same moment, the grenade current dips and the bulb(s) go out.

Itsu
   
img  AlienGrey
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #748 on: 2021-05-31, 22:42:13 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-05-31, 16:26:45
  And it may get even more confusing, if we keep going from one guy's build to the other guy's build. 
  If Stalker's way doesn't work, (and it didn't for me), then what? Three different guys got the simple kacher working towards self running, but, I could not.
  All of these variation are copies of Akula's work, redone by Ruslan, and replicated by different people in their own way.
  So, it seams to me that the only actual relation between the inductor/grenade/ and the Kacher, Is Luck. I have not seen it line up in the way that some people believe it should. And every ones device is running at different frequencies, winding with different wire, and different cores, and caps, and...what's with the 37.5 or 40, or 41meter grenades. Is that a magic number, as well?
BTW, I do use the 1/2 wave inductor. I've also tried the 1/4 wave, as well, but it did not do as well as the 1/2 wave inductor.
And also the location, may have everything to do with it. Guys living in the US maybe not be able to use the same exact frequencies as in Russia.
  Makes me wonder if Kapanadze knew about all this stuff. And then some guys make it work without a needing the grenade, or having to use two separate circuits, but just needed one combined circuit. Again, if true, like with the Roma (Poma) device. I realize that some guys here many not know about him. Nor do I want to further confuse the issue, so I'll leave it at that.

   NickZ
A standing wave at 25khz
« Last Edit: 2021-06-01, 14:44:11 by AlienGrey »
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #749 on: 2021-05-31, 23:13:39 »

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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021-05-31, 22:42:13
A standing wave at 25khz
This is not a standing wave. This is an amplitude modulated HF signal.
A standing wave has space on the horizontal axis - this wave has time.
   
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