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OverUnity Research > Benches > AlienGrey > Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench
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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 309722 times)
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img  AlienGrey
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #200 on: 2021-04-18, 21:45:36 »
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Verpies thats a pitty, perhaps it's available in it's original thread, however I have another problem after testing my 37.5 Mtr grenade in FFT mode I
notice it has a better Qfactor in the 5Mhz range or over, the problem is my SG  only goes up to 5.00 Mhz.

 ;D ;D
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #201 on: 2021-04-19, 09:12:16 »

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This PLL circuit designed by verpies was also presented on OU.com here:

https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg507033/#msg507033

Be aware its version 1 which has an error being:

THE TL494 PIN 6,  THERE SHOULD BE NO RV6 AND R21 AS THE FREQUENCY CONTROL COMES FROM THE 4046 CHIP.
INSTEAD TL494 PIN 6 SHOULD GO ONLY TO TL494 PINS 13/14 BEING THE 5V REF VOLTAGE.

Below is attached the corrected version 2:


Also take not of the below posted (#196) info from verpies:

Quote
It should be mentioned that the R15, R16, R17, R18, R19 R20 should be high-precision resistors and RV4 should be adjusted so the waveform on the TL494.pin5 is exactly the same as when the TL494 is operating alone in its STANDARD application note straight from its datasheet.
I also remember that the v & i comparators made with U2a and U2b are configured with hysteresis (adjustable by RV1 and RV2) in order to handle variable amplitude noisy analog signals and to convert them to simple digital rectangular pulses on pins 3 and 14 of the 74HC4046.

However, hysteresis introduces inherent phase shifts of its own, so more effort should be put into improving these i & v comparators in order to eliminate these phase shifts ...but that is nothing difficult or exotic.
If anyone here has a good idea how to improve them easily, please share it.


Regards Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #202 on: 2021-04-19, 10:03:52 »

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Got my 4mm² wire, it measures (caliper) 4.2mm outer diameter and 2.5mm core diameter, so insulation is 0.85mm.

Doing some calculations with that data and.....37.5m    coincidence?


Length: 37.5m
combined resonance frequency: 3.05MHz
induction: 143uH
nbr turns: 220


Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #203 on: 2021-04-19, 11:43:56 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-19, 10:03:52
Got my 4mm² wire, it measures (caliper) 4.2mm outer diameter and 2.5mm core diameter, so insulation is 0.85mm.

Doing some calculations with that data and.....37.5m    coincidence?


Length: 37.5m
combined resonance frequency: 3.05MHz
induction: 143uH
nbr turns: 220

Itsu

That is probably close to Ruslan's original variant for Europian tubes (3.4mm vs 2mm) and wire.

Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #204 on: 2021-04-19, 14:30:32 »
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   Ruslan did not use the regular 50mm pvc pipe. He used sink drain pipe, which is what I use, for a 37.5m coil.
It measure less width than the 50mm one does, and has thinner walls thickness, also.
However, it does not hold up very well to the grenade coils getting real hot, and can start to bend, after a while, like mine has done. But, that happens when loading the output with 700 watts worth of bulbs.  Good heat resistant wire insulation is important, as well. As the normal house wire insulation can melt.

   NickZ
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #205 on: 2021-04-19, 14:52:41 »

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@Nick

The material (e.g. polypropylene) and thickness of the pipe walls affects the dielectric constant of the entire coil.
So it is almost as significant as the properties of the wire insulation.
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #206 on: 2021-04-19, 15:58:42 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-04-19, 14:52:41
@Nick

The material (e.g. polypropylene) and thickness of the pipe walls affects the dielectric constant of the entire coil.
So it is almost as significant as the properties of the wire insulation.



   Verpies: Yes, I'm sure it does affect things.  I was following what Ruslan was showing on his video, and how to wind the grenade, etc...
he did use the drain pipe, for some reason that I can't remember. However, it's not going to hold up to the heat that the coils give off.
But, for that matter, I don't think the 50mm pipe will hold up either. Yet, there are different wall thickness and ratings, on them, unlike the thinner drain pipe.
   I do overnight burn in heat tests runs at times, like you see below, to see what gives out, first...  and I find that pipe is one of the weak links.

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2021-04-19, 16:59:22 by NickZ »
   
img  AlienGrey
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #207 on: 2021-04-19, 21:12:23 »
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Gents yes it looks like one of those Greek statues of Apollo in the museum,  :-X :-X

And yes they do get hot, Enjoykin was saying a (while back) card board tube would be a better idea
Perhaps cover it in varnish or better still use paxolin if you can get it, but aren’t you forgetting the
Fact that you need to get a prototype working first?

SIL
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #208 on: 2021-04-19, 21:40:15 »

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Not sure how to continue now, build the 37.5m version on a 3.5mm walled bobbin or build a 45m version on a 2mm walled bobbin like Stalker and compare with his findings.

I think the latter is better as i always can short the length to 37.5m

Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #209 on: 2021-04-19, 23:14:43 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-19, 21:40:15
Not sure how to continue now, build the 37.5m version on a 3.5mm walled bobbin or build a 45m version on a 2mm walled bobbin like Stalker and compare with his findings.
Maybe both?
Anyway, what is the material of your bobbins?  polypropylene, poly vinyl chloride PVC, polyethylene, etc... ?

P.S.
When you finish making the coil it wold be nice to see low duty cycle picopulse response of this coil.  Your picopulses are only ~100V and shorter than your kV nanopulses, so they are safer and better suited for Test & Measurement of the coil. 
If you do this, make sure that no reverberations happen. This means that the pulse that is reflected from the coil and comes back to the measuring point, at the picopulser, is completely absorbed there by well matched impedance and does not reflect back to the coil.  If you don't do this, you will have echos of echos of echos of echos...
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #210 on: 2021-04-20, 05:18:02 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-19, 21:40:15
Not sure how to continue now, build the 37.5m version on a 3.5mm walled bobbin or build a 45m version on a 2mm walled bobbin like Stalker and compare with his findings.

I think the latter is better as i always can short the length to 37.5m

Itsu

Itsu,

I would suggest go with 37.5m (according to calculations) and try version 2 (Stalker's) winding style.
Then do measurements and search for two frequencies as described.
No need worry too much about overheating at this point I think.

Vasik
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #211 on: 2021-04-20, 07:39:38 »
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I traced pcb for this project.
Will order and build boards occasionally.
Sharing here in case somebody want try it also.

Have fun,
Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #212 on: 2021-04-20, 09:27:51 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-04-19, 23:14:43
Maybe both?
Anyway, what is the material of your bobbins?  polypropylene, poly vinyl chloride PVC, polyethylene, etc... ?

P.S.
When you finish making the coil it wold be nice to see low duty cycle picopulse response of this coil.  Your picopulses are only ~100V and shorter than your kV nanopulses, so they are safer and better suited for Test & Measurement of the coil. 
If you do this, make sure that no reverberations happen. This means that the pulse that is reflected from the coil and comes back to the measuring point, at the picopulser, is completely absorbed there by well matched impedance and does not reflect back to the coil.  If you don't do this, you will have echos of echos of echos of echos...

Well,  both might not be possible with 100m i guess, still need some wire (11m) for the inductors.

The present bobbin is from grey PVC, 3.4mm thick wall, but i have some white thinner (2mm thick) plastic draining pipe, not sure what it is made from.

Ok, for the picopulser, any idea what this "well matched impedance" will be (50 Ohm, 1KOhm, ...)?

 
Itsu
« Last Edit: 2021-04-20, 10:16:53 by Itsu »
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #213 on: 2021-04-20, 09:45:43 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-04-20, 07:39:38
I traced pcb for this project.
Will order and build boards occasionally.
Sharing here in case somebody want try it also.

Have fun,
Vasik


Vasik,

Thanks for the PCB, it looks to be the circuits in the RK.pdf on page 33 (push pull board with synchronization output for Tesla coil) and the one on page 35 (Kacher* control board) driving a transistor (2sc5200) with 3 fets, is that correct?

*) kacher -Tesla coil with one transistor auto-generator driver
 
I would ratcher build the MOSFET kacher driver shown on page 34 (Tesla control board), instead of the transistor drive, but i can always switch over to a separate board for that.


Below the PCB layout from your gerber zip file.


U9 is a DC2DC buck converter (24 to 15V)     https://www.ebay.com/c/15027264512


Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #214 on: 2021-04-20, 10:03:26 »
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Itsu,

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-20, 09:45:43
Thanks for the PCB, it looks to be the circuits in the RK.pdf on page 33 (push pull board with synchronization output for Tesla coil) and the one on page 35 (Kacher* control board) driving a transistor (2sc5200) with 3 fets, is that correct?
Yes, this is correct.

Quote
I would ratcher build the MOSFET kacher driver shown on page 34 (Tesla control board), instead of the transistor drive, but i can always switch over to a separate board for that.
Sergey says that it is much easier to get system working with kacher, so I decided use it for now.

Vasik
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #215 on: 2021-04-20, 11:22:17 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-04-19, 23:14:43
Maybe both?
Anyway, what is the material of your bobbins?  polypropylene, poly vinyl chloride PVC, polyethylene, etc... ?

P.S.
When you finish making the coil it wold be nice to see low duty cycle picopulse response of this coil.  Your picopulses are only ~100V and shorter than your kV nanopulses, so they are safer and better suited for Test & Measurement of the coil. 
If you do this, make sure that no reverberations happen. This means that the pulse that is reflected from the coil and comes back to the measuring point, at the picopulser, is completely absorbed there by well matched impedance and does not reflect back to the coil.  If you don't do this, you will have echos of echos of echos of echos...

Verpies, Itsu,

I have a question about this.
When we have two wires transmission line e.g. coax cable on biffilar coil, it is clear how to feed it from pulse generator and see reflections.
But in this case, we have just a coil, how would you connect it to the pulse generator to see reflections ?

Thanks,
Vasik
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #216 on: 2021-04-20, 12:48:58 »
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I made some improvements in translation.
Please let me know if you see some irregularities.
Let's improve translation together.

Have fun,
Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #217 on: 2021-04-20, 15:16:00 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-04-20, 11:22:17
Verpies, Itsu,

I have a question about this.
When we have two wires transmission line e.g. coax cable on biffilar coil, it is clear how to feed it from pulse generator and see reflections.
But in this case, we have just a coil, how would you connect it to the pulse generator to see reflections ?

Thanks,
Vasik

Hi Vasik,

good question, i did not realize, but indeed how to connect the pulser.

I guess it will be similar as with a tesla coil, so use the capacitance to ground as the return.

I will see how that goes, unless verpies has a solution to that problem.

Guess its not that easy:  https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/reflectometry-in-single-wire.779230/


Itsu
« Last Edit: 2021-04-20, 15:51:53 by Itsu »
   
img  AlienGrey
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #218 on: 2021-04-20, 15:20:20 »
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 Itsue I have a 37.5 grenade its wound different to how stalker discribes the build now
it's in 14 sections of 2.6Mtrs like pdf it's inductance is 161Uhrys total.
it's q is just over 5Mhz

Note It's that old i didn't use alloy inner tube. Notice inter winding links
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #219 on: 2021-04-20, 16:54:42 »

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AG, 

thats great, its yet another variation on how to wind a Grenade.

Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #220 on: 2021-04-20, 18:24:44 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-04-20, 12:48:58
I made some improvements in translation.
Please let me know if you see some irregularities.
Let's improve translation together.
This signal generator has a very high yawn factor to me.  I would never build this pulse forming circuit for a prototype because I have an arbitrary function generator that can be programmed to do the same with greater accuracy, stability and flexibility. The author clearly states that "this is just 10% of the working device".
I am much more interested in what is going on inside these coils and between these coils ( ...and in the slotted aluminum tube? ) where the remaining 85% of the device operation occurs.  In my opinion, this is where most of the replication effort must be applied.
The remaining 5% being the boiler-plate circuits like power supplies and power amplifiers / power pulse drivers.
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #221 on: 2021-04-21, 12:25:39 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-19, 10:03:52
Got my 4mm² wire, it measures (caliper) 4.2mm outer diameter and 2.5mm core diameter, so insulation is 0.85mm.

Doing some calculations with that data and.....37.5m    coincidence?


Length: 37.5m
combined resonance frequency: 3.05MHz
induction: 143uH
nbr turns: 220


Itsu

Made this single coil out of the 37.5m of 4mm² wire and it measures 137.5uH @ 100KHz and has 214 turns, so reasonably close to the calculator.

Will do some further measurements on it.

Itsu
   
img  verpies
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #222 on: 2021-04-21, 12:47:24 »

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How long is the helix ?
Math says 4.2mm * 214 = 898.8mm, but what is the reality ?

Anyway, why does it look so different from Vasik's diagram ?
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #223 on: 2021-04-21, 14:58:11 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2021-04-21, 12:47:24
How long is the helix ?
Math says 4.2mm * 214 = 898.8mm, but what is the reality ?

Anyway, why does it look so different from Vasik's diagram ?

   Verpies:
   It is a single coil, unlike the grenade or gradient coil. As the calculator only works for the straight single coils. But, not for the grenade type of coils.

   My question remains, why 37.5 or 42, or 46 meters long??? WHY that size?  It that size a "ONE SIZE fits all"??? 
Because I doubt it... As Russia is on the other side of the world, from where I am. And frequencies may not be the same.
So what is the grenade size or self resonant frequency being matched to? 
   Maybe I should test to see if my set up will self run at less than 100w output. Like Vasik mentions...  But,   I know it won't...

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2021-04-21, 15:26:09 by NickZ »
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #224 on: 2021-04-21, 16:05:26 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-04-21, 12:47:24
How long is the helix ?
Math says 4.2mm * 214 = 898.8mm, but what is the reality ?

Anyway, why does it look so different from Vasik's diagram ?

The helix is 92cm long, so the wire thickness (4.2mm) is slightly thicker as predicted/mentioned by Stalker due to the bending causing it to get oval.
The calculator calculates 4.24mm for an overall coil length of 93.4cm but it still might be thicker in my case and i keep 2 x 0.5m as leads.


This single layer coil is the first stage before winding it into a grenade to see if the overall wire length, thickness, inductance and number of turns is acceptable for winding it into a Grenade.

Also we should be able to test if the LC resonance and Standing wave resonance is indeed the same as the calculated 3.05MHz.

This 37.5m long wire has a wavelength of about 8Mhz, but as we use it as a ¼ wavelength, its total wavelength would be 4x higher is 150m which equates to a frequency of about 2Mhz.
As can be seen, the calculator calculates this ¼ wavelength frequency as 3.05Mhz, probably due to all kind of influences like velocityfactor, stray capacitance and inductance, etc.
http://www.w8ji.com/mobile_and_loaded_antenna.htm

So now i try to measure LC resonance and standing wave resonance to see if the calculator is right about this intersecting frequency of 3.05MHz.

Then i will rewind it into a Grenade and try to determine the LC and standing wave resonances of this Grenade.

Itsu
   
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