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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 309201 times)
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img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #50 on: 2021-04-10, 10:31:39 »
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Itsu,

I found this Excel file for gradient coil and inductor layers calculation.
May be it helps.

Regards,
Vasik
« Last Edit: 2021-04-10, 11:10:36 by Vasik041 »
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #51 on: 2021-04-10, 13:09:05 »

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Vasik,

Quote
PS If I understood it right, Stalker said that those dim areas on fluorescent lamp should stop at wave resonance, but I haven't tried it, so can't comment on it.

Right, that is what i too understood from it, but up till now the rings keep moving




Good find on the excel sheet, i was wondering how to wind the Grenade first layers, keep the length the same (thus having different number of turns)
like in your Excel sheet, or keep the number of turns the same (thus having different lengths) which i calculated as:

both layers 64 turns, 1st layer 10.765m and 2th layer 12.16m totalling 22.925m (half of 46m).

For compactness / tightness, i would go for my option, but i am not sure if the now unequal lenghts are a problem.


Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #52 on: 2021-04-10, 13:20:57 »
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Itsu,

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-10, 13:09:05
Right, that is what i too understood from it, but up till now the rings keep moving

I think rings are moving because there is small mismatch between LC and wave resonance.
Usually if you want exact match you would remove or add few turns to the coil.

Quote
For compactness / tightness, i would go for my option, but i am not sure if the now unequal lenghts are a problem.

I think, like example picture shows (on the right) it is important to have equal lengths of first two layers (combined) and reverse layers (combined).

Regards,
Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #53 on: 2021-04-10, 15:10:52 »
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   What I did, was to place and extend the whole 37.5 meter grenade line on the ground. Then fold that into two equally sized parts, and I marked it there. Then take that, and fold it in half, to obtain the other two coils sizes. And wind it like as shown in the Ruslan diagrams, to get to those points, regardless of the exact same number of turns. I don't know if I can explain it well, nor if I can even remember it well, as it's been a while.  I hope that is correct.  IF not, please let me know.
   So, is the goal here to have the LC resonance point match the frequency of the highest or best wave resonant point? Or a harmonic of it...?
   Dr. Stiffler also had mentioned of finding the "Spacial Resonant point", first.  And that the coils should be tuned to that frequency, or fraction of it's wave length. I think that itsu may remember the Doc, and his ideas about finding something from nothing, or out of thin air.
 
    Did you say that Stalker only needed to make 25 grenades to get one that finally works? That is encouraging...

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2021-04-10, 16:22:07 by NickZ »
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #54 on: 2021-04-10, 15:54:34 »

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Vasik,

Quote
I think rings are moving because there is small mismatch between LC and wave resonance.
Usually if you want exact match you would remove or add few turns to the coil.

ok about the rings, will try something.


Quote
I think, like example picture shows (on the right) it is important to have equal lengths of first two layers (combined) and reverse layers (combined).

So i will start by keeping the 64 turns / unequal length for 1st and 2th layers and keep the same total length (23m) between layers 1/2 and 3/4/5/6.



Concerning the Standing wave frequency, i tried something using your diagram (grounded bottom coil), but things stay very touchy and every movement of my body and/or probes is causing to go off resonance.

I slowly move a probe across the length of the coil expecting to see a bottom to top increase of amplitude like the screenshot below, but it needs some conditioning of the probe to do so, see video: https://youtu.be/7htinssF0PM

Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #55 on: 2021-04-10, 16:01:37 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-04-10, 15:10:52
   What I did, was to place and extend the whole 37.5 meter grenade line on the ground. Then fold that into two equally sized parts, and I marked it there. Then take that, and fold it in half, to obtain the other two coils sizes. And wind it like as shown in the Ruslan diagrams, to get to those points, regardless of the exact same number of turns. I don't know if I can explain it well, nor if I can even remember it well, as it's been a while.  I hope that is correct.  IF not, please let me know.
   So, is the goal here to have the LC resonance point match the frequency of the highest or best wave resonant point? Or a harmonic of it...?
 
    Did you say that Stalker only needed to make 25 grenades to get one that finally works? That is encouraging...

   NickZ

Hi Nick,

i did the same in building my Grenade then, but that way i got the first layer 3 a 4cm longer then the 2th layer etc.

What we need to do as i understand is to match the (LC) resonance frequency with the (length) standing wave resonance frequency to both be at the same frequency.
This will boost / pump / make longditudinal wave etc., at least is the story.

Itsu 

   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #56 on: 2021-04-10, 16:27:41 »
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Itsu,

You found now both resonances  O0
What is the second frequency ?

If you move one turn coil (connected to signal generator) 5-10cm right, so there will be better coupling, may be it became more stable. But in general, this is high frequency tech, it always influenced by everything, unless placed inside shielding.

Regards,
Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #57 on: 2021-04-10, 16:33:16 »
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  I added and edited my last post. Please check it.
Looks like you answered, as I was posting about "Spacial Resonance". Which the coils may need to be tuned to, first. A starting spacial frequency, perhaps.
Thanks for your answer.
   I'm glad that Vasik is here, in case we get the wrong picture. But, it seams that first we need to tune in and find that best spacial resonant point.
Which in my case, may NOT BE at the same frequency, as my 37.5 meter grenade coil is wound at. Therefore, there is no sync, just a flash.
That point can vary from one area to another. And is probably why Akula could not get his rig to work in Germany.
Otherwise we may do everything right, and still get it wrong. Or not?
 
   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2021-04-10, 17:58:15 by NickZ »
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #58 on: 2021-04-10, 16:35:59 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-04-10, 16:27:41
Itsu,

You found now both resonances  O0
What is the second frequency ?

If you move one turn coil (connected to signal generator) 5-10cm right, so there will be better coupling, may be it became more stable. But in general, this is high frequency tech, it always influenced by everything, unless placed inside shielding.

Regards,
Vasik

This 2th frequency is 2.63Mhz.

Moving the single FG coil 5cm or so increases the coupling and i got better signals indeed.

Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #59 on: 2021-04-10, 16:57:23 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-10, 16:35:59
This 2th frequency is 2.63Mhz.

Moving the single FG coil 5cm or so increases the coupling and i got better signals indeed.

Itsu

Itsu,

2.64 and 2.63 are very close. I think it is quite good result for the calculator.

One more idea if you like - you probably noticed in the videos that Sergey use metallic table.
I put large piece of fiberglass on my table (FR-4), with foil on one side, so that foil is on the bottom side, and I connect it to the same grounding wire where all my measurement equipment connected.
This removes static interference and perhaps increase stability of RF setups under test.

Regards,
Vasik
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #60 on: 2021-04-10, 17:03:12 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-04-10, 16:33:16
  I added and edited my last post. Please check it.
Looks like you answered, as I was posting about "Spacial Resonance". Which the coils may need to be tuned to, first.
Thanks for your answer.
   I'm glad that Vasik is here, in case we get the wrong picture. But, it seams that first we need to tune in and find that best spacial resonant point.
That point can vary from one area to another. And is probably why Akula could not get his rig to work in Germany.
Otherwise we may do everything right, and still get it wrong. Or not?
 
   NickZ

Hi Nick,

Yes, there are some spatial frequencies can be used to tap power. They depend on the region/place.
But AFAIK this device will work with small power (like 100W) without tuning to those frequencies.
You just need to use proper ground connection, same for tuning and running.
There are many rumors, but we will know for sure when many people experiment and share information about this.
So far, everyone is in "paranoid secrecy" mood and don't want to talk about it.

Regards,
Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #61 on: 2021-04-10, 17:51:14 »
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    Vasik:
    Ok, I see. But, running a proper ground (37.5 meter ground line), into my water well as before, is not possible now. Maybe a shorter 10m ground may work, to some degree.  I know that itsu has the same issue with the earth ground lines. 
    So, without Spacial coherence tuning to find the best starting frequency, a lower output of 100w or less can be obtained, at less precise possible harmonics frequencies.
   So, unless you want to obtain less than 100w, you need to tune into the spacial frequency, first.  Perhaps...
   I would be more than happy to start with 100w, for free.

   NickZ
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #62 on: 2021-04-10, 18:06:41 »
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 Double post, sorry.
  Deleted.
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #63 on: 2021-04-10, 18:15:44 »
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It is possible to build systems which are not require grounding.
I would think about this device as a toy, just to get familiar with technology and ideas.

BTW Please be very careful using water pipes as a grounding. As immediate danger - somebody can get electric shock in a surprise place and in long run, they will corrode.
Really bad idea.

Regards,
Vasik
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #64 on: 2021-04-11, 00:16:52 »
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Vasik041
Quote
It is possible to build systems which are not require grounding.
I would think about this device as a toy, just to get familiar with technology and ideas.

BTW Please be very careful using water pipes as a grounding. As immediate danger - somebody can get electric shock in a surprise place and in long run, they will corrode.
Really bad idea.

Some of the following is common knowledge but most from my own experience.

There are three primary kinds of grounding systems.
1) A common Earth ground which is simply a large reservoir of mobile free electrons.

2) An Atmospheric ground consisting of a conductive wire brush type device having many sharp points.

3) Cancellation of excess potential is a no brainer and we simply monitor the floating potential then add or subtract free electrons to balance the potential. Some might ask where we give or take the free electrons from and the answer is the 1)the ground, 2)the atmosphere or a battery/capacitor in series with #1 or #2.

There many ways to produce the equivalent of a ground plane however they get much more complicated that the three primary ways I mentioned above. Another is transmutation whereby we force an excess or deficit of free electrons as a floating surface potential to reorganize the geometry of a molecule. At which point the (+/-) difference in free electrons becomes latent or "hidden" within the molecule reducing the surface potential... hide and seek if you will.

Regards
AC



---------------------------
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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #65 on: 2021-04-11, 08:07:03 »
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Hi AC,

I think some ideas can be reused from antenna designs
for example:
https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/antennas-propagation/vertical-antennas/quarter-wave-vertical.php
(second variant)

but later, when we understand well how things work.

Regards,
Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #66 on: 2021-04-11, 14:59:11 »
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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-04-10, 18:15:44
It is possible to build systems which are not require grounding.
I would think about this device as a toy, just to get familiar with technology and ideas.

BTW Please be very careful using water pipes as a grounding. As immediate danger - somebody can get electric shock in a surprise place and in long run, they will corrode.
Really bad idea.

Regards,
Vasik


   It may be possible to build something that works without an earth ground line. But, I have not seen that to be the case, in higher output systems.
The induction circuit does not shock, at all, which I just love. But, the interaction with the Kacher's HV, HF is what causes there to be shocks.
   Our water lines are made of PVC, here. So... no shocks, and no rust. Nor can they be used as ground lines.
   It's just that having a 40m ground line, may not be possible, for some folks. And I don't know if it's ok to bury them, or not. But, without an earth ground for these types of contraptions, we may be pissing into the wind.
« Last Edit: 2021-04-11, 17:43:22 by NickZ »
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #67 on: 2021-04-11, 16:38:46 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-04-11, 14:59:11

   It may be possible to build something that works without an earth ground line. But, I have not seen that to be the case, in higher output systems.
The induction circuit does not shock, at all. But, the combination with the Kacher is what causes there to be shocks.
Our water lines are made of PVC, here. So... no shocks, and no rust. Nor can they be used as ground lines.
  It's just that having a 40m ground line, may not be possible, for some folks. And I don't know if it's ok to bury them, or not. But, without an earth ground for these types of contraptions, we may be pissing into the wind.

Hi Nick,

I not sure where "40m ground line" comes from ? In my understanding Sergey says that length of wire from the device to the point where grounding located (some metallic thing buried) should not be very long, he says he has 25m long cable, but I understood it that it 25m of cable mostly inside house coming to the lab.

Regards,
Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #68 on: 2021-04-11, 17:06:49 »
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   As I understood it, and according to Ruslan, the earth ground line needs to be thick and multi strand, (such as in welding cable).
And that ground line should be matched or tuned to be as long as the grenade length, 37.5m to 40m, or so. It also needs to be connected to a proper grounding rod.
Remember, his "toy" had a 4000w output.   IF true... enough to more than power my house. I have not seen anything that can do that, without an Earth ground line connected. Even though Akula showed it can be done, but, only doing so for a few seconds, and at less than 700w output. 
The point being, that the ground line may be essential to having a fully working device.
Yet a smaller "toy" version of less than 100w, may self run without needing a ground line connection, perhaps. Time will tell...

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2021-04-11, 18:00:54 by NickZ »
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #69 on: 2021-04-11, 17:18:16 »
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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-04-11, 16:38:46
Hi Nick,

I not sure where "40m ground line" comes from ? In my understanding Sergey says that length of wire from the device to the point where grounding located (some metallic thing buried) should not be very long, he says he has 25m long cable, but I understood it that it 25m of cable mostly inside house coming to the lab.

Regards,
Vasik



   And did Sergey show it self running, using a short ground line? In any case 25 meter is still pretty long.
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #70 on: 2021-04-11, 17:44:08 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-04-11, 17:18:16
   And did Sergey show it self running, using a short ground line? In any case 25 meter is still pretty long.

Public demonstration means trouble.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #71 on: 2021-04-11, 17:57:00 »
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   So does believing without seeing it, for oneself...  Agreed that it means trouble...
   Stalker replicated Ruslan's device, and Adrian replicated Stalker's device, both in their own ways, not exact copies of each others work.
And, I replicated the Stalker/Adrian version, using the simple Kacher.
   Adrian DID show the simple kacher version self running, which was why I replicated that simpler version.
But, that May have caused Adrian much trouble, yet I don't want to believe that he is not around now. But, who knows...
Yet it is an important consideration, for future replications, and replicators of such devices.
And "public demonstrations", are what we really need, here. If we are to get anywhere with this. Or not?

   NickZ
   
« Last Edit: 2021-04-11, 18:47:41 by NickZ »
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #72 on: 2021-04-11, 21:00:54 »

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First attempt to make a grenade out of the 46m (plus 2x 0.5m leads) wire from the long coil.

Layers 1 and 2 clockwise both 65 turns ending at the midway point (coil length 22cm).
Layers 3 and 4 counter clockwise 33/32 turns (length 11cm)
Layers 5 and 6 counter clockwise 16 turns (length 6cm).

Connection leads 35cm (cold side) and 65cm (hot side, internally routed to cold side), both extending 33cm out of the bobbin.

Induction measured 232uH @ 100KHz (was 217uH @ 100KHz as long coil).

Doing some tests with it......

Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #73 on: 2021-04-11, 21:57:37 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Hey guys,

Might anyone know why these coils are called "Grenades" and "Catchers" etc?

Thanks.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #74 on: 2021-04-12, 00:15:13 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2021-04-11, 21:57:37
Hey guys,

Might anyone know why these coils are called "Grenades" and "Catchers" etc?

Thanks.

Some time back I translated the Brovin patents for the "kacher" circuit and are attached below.  Basically, it is a single ended Tesla stye transformer that is self adjusting but the majority of circuits I see used presently are double ended or balanced circuits that are called Kacher" but more likely resemble a current regulated parallel inverter.

The "grenade" I'm not sure other than it resembles and early explosive grenade device.

Regards,
Pm
   
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