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img  PhysicsProf
Raymondslab new "no drag" device « on: 2020-04-13, 00:49:21 »
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Intriguing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIbBaTf9m_M

But - he has not actually measured the output power yet...
   
img  muDped
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #1 on: 2020-04-13, 01:33:25 »

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Agreed, quite intriguing.  I wish he'd done a couple of additional loads:

(1)  A load which draws considerably more current.

(2)  A load where the output of the coil is first rectified to full-wave
pulsating DC.


Since in the video it appears his LED load is directly connected across the coil
then the Output Current would be pulsating half-cycle DC.  Is that an essential
characteristic of the Loading in order to reduce motor current draw?

It's a very simply device where other means of vibrating the coil come to
mind.  Food for thought...

One wonders of course, whether fixing the coil and vibrating the magnet would
produce the same effect?  More food for thought...


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #2 on: 2020-04-13, 02:30:14 »
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  Good points, MuDped.

Note this comment from Germany:

Quote
baudirenergie5 hours ago
Great Video Ray! Thanks a lot. I am working with the same Effect but have a different setup. If the setup is perfect, your source energy can be become zero or below (go into negative). Then your source (battery) voltage can stay the same or can charge in the same time and never deminish. Impedance matching on the output side can give you also a gain in this effect and can reduces your input current more and more and speed up your motor in the same time.  Thanks for your video and best regards from germany.
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #3 on: 2020-04-13, 10:55:23 »
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  Notice how "simple" this device is:
   
img  Centraflow
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #4 on: 2020-04-13, 12:24:01 »

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Buy me a beer
If you look carefully at the video you will see why.

Watch the drive bar (wood) as he moves the magnet, what do you see?? ah the standing wave or not, to be or not to be, that is the question, going into sink so it is not reflecting.

Regards

Mike 8)
« Last Edit: 2020-04-13, 14:29:35 by Centraflow »


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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img  Duncan
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #5 on: 2020-04-13, 13:35:11 »
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Quote from: Centraflow on 2020-04-13, 12:24:01
If you look carefully at the video you will see why.

Watch the drive bar (wood) as he moves the magnet, what do you see?? ah the standing wave or not, to be or not to be, that is the question, going into sink so it is not refecting.

Regards

Mike 8)

like a kiddies swing being pushed at the wrong time - then corrected is that a pretty good picture to draw Mike? or better still like an SWR on an antenna feeder but of course its physical and the di-pole impedance change is the magnet being  moved ? - is that QED and can be put to bed?


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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #6 on: 2020-04-13, 14:33:14 »

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Buy me a beer
Quote from: Duncan on 2020-04-13, 13:35:11
like a kiddies swing being pushed at the wrong time - then corrected is that a pretty good picture to draw Mike? or better still like an SWR on an antenna feeder but of course its physical and the di-pole impedance change is the magnet being  moved ? - is that QED and can be put to bed?

Yes Duncan, it is the standing wave and it's ratio.

A great demonstration of actually seeing it, if the wooded bar was thicker it probably would not be seen, but it would still be there.

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  Duncan
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #7 on: 2020-04-13, 14:50:04 »
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Thanks Mike - a beacon in the darkness - as usual, kind regards Duncan


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
img  Magluvin
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #8 on: 2020-04-13, 14:58:26 »

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This is very interesting

Partsman and I have shown the induction of a sideways coil that produces more of a say positive output than a negative. But here he has the magnet and the coil sideways. There may be more to this than the way he shows.

The only suspecting thing that I can conceive is the possibility of the assy going into resonance and the mechanical(no magnet) load 'will' draw less from the motor. Like in some of my pulse motor vids, I had found out that reed switches hit resonance in freq above their recommended max operating freq. once the reed got to the max, the motor would settle at that speed. But if the rotor was assisted to a higher rpm, and the reed goes resonant, the motor would speed up because it was making more consistent contact for that rpm/freq. But what Im hoping for is the idea he expressed of instead of lenz effect, it assists instead of dragging down the mechanical drive. :o

Here the movement is restricted to only so far left and right, so im wondering if that is necessary or if it were a rotor that could take advantage of this all the way through the magnet passing.  If it doesnt, then a simple trick for that would be to load the coil only for a short period during the pass within  the range that the effect happens. ;) O0 ^-^

Mags
   
img  Duncan
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #9 on: 2020-04-13, 15:24:03 »
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providing I have interpreted Mike correctly Magluvin (and he can lose me quite easily) – let me invite you to imagine a swing with a child sat on it (if you wish) being effected at each end of the swing – (for the moment imagine an adult pushing at each apex) timing is obviously essential . In practice here there is one input (the motor and cam contraption)what is at the other end of the swing you know is a magnet but for now consider it to be a braking effect . (another adult pushing at the wrong time) or if attraction pulling at the wrong time.
At the out set the timing of that brake  is awful the guy (on the magnet) end  is pushing long before the swing has reached the apex. The timing is all wrong .
There is never OU The timing of the 'reflected energy' is simply  improved from poor to a little better when the magnets are moved. hence LEDs can light and energy consumption goe's down .  -- Kind Regards Duncan   


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
img  Magluvin
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #10 on: 2020-04-13, 15:48:29 »

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Quote from: Centraflow on 2020-04-13, 12:24:01
If you look carefully at the video you will see why.

Watch the drive bar (wood) as he moves the magnet, what do you see?? ah the standing wave or not, to be or not to be, that is the question, going into sink so it is not reflecting.

Regards

Mike 8)

That would have to be determined by further examination, as in my experience, video of moving parts like this can be very deceiving than in person and will be freq related. Like a gopro, a helicopter may look like the blades are not rotating at all but is in flight.  If the motor is in basically direct drive at the coil end, and then a little bit of drag(2 red leds  bout 120mw if driven to full brightness) happens, then Im not sure we would see a standing wave unless the wood flexes at a particular freq below the free running, no magnet freq.  And according to lenz the introduction of the magnet causes(should, by our way of thinking) drag(slowing down, lower freq, more input current) and slowing it down allows it to lock onto that res freq? But this thing is speeding up, less input, and higher freq. If introducing lenz should slow things down, then why is it speeding up as the load gets heavier? The coil should be only moving the same distance back and forth no matter what speed, or resonance.So im, without testing yet, beginning to have a good feeling on this. It is worth a look. The sideways magnet and sideways coil is a new thought for me at the moment. Already looking at how to concentrate the magnets field to the area of the coil. Simple horseshoe shape should be very similar but more flux in use.

Mags
   
img  Duncan
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #11 on: 2020-04-13, 15:58:18 »
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How about Mag's just as a shot I suggested that before the magnet is introduced the wood is slamming into the back board and energy is lost (timing is wrong)  .  the magnet releives that waste of energy the wood doesn't hit the back board or at least nothing like as hard. still as you say more info req'd  and the camera plays tricks - still nice to think of something other than this pox for a little while - kind regards Duncan


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
img  Magluvin
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #12 on: 2020-04-13, 16:06:36 »

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Quote from: Duncan on 2020-04-13, 15:58:18
How about Mag's just as a shot I suggested that before the magnet is introduced the wood is slamming into the back board and energy is lost (timing is wrong)  .  the magnet releives that waste of energy the wood doesn't hit the back board or at least nothing like as hard. still as you say more info req'd  and the camera plays tricks - still nice to think of something other than this pox for a little while - kind regards Duncan

 ;)

Hear is some things I have worked on that are similar, but not a motor drive. Just coils, magnets and a pendulum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fmmg9UXnw4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OTyErrA9N8&t=167s

Like this guys deal, if we want to eliminate the resonance issue with the long board, just make a nice piston assy instead. getting rid of the board should increase eff. That will determine a lot to see what really going on. ^-^

Mags
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #13 on: 2020-04-13, 16:38:52 »
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an FG on your phone ? thats cool. that magnet on a cam reminded me of this guy's efforts

http://www.gap-power.com/videos/Full%20Length%20Video.wmv

which came from here

http://www.gap-power.com/videos-page-for-02-28-13-update.html

really don't know where he went with it - I know I'd have to sell my house to buy those magnets he's using.  ;)
Regards Duncan


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
img  Magluvin
Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #14 on: 2020-04-13, 17:36:09 »

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Quote from: Duncan on 2020-04-13, 16:38:52
an FG on your phone ? thats cool. that magnet on a cam reminded me of this guy's efforts

http://www.gap-power.com/videos/Full%20Length%20Video.wmv

which came from here

http://www.gap-power.com/videos-page-for-02-28-13-update.html

really don't know where he went with it - I know I'd have to sell my house to buy those magnets he's using.  ;)
Regards Duncan

Nice setup, and huge magnets.  very dangerous also.  cant be careless in the least.

Yes. piston system like that.  I sort of appreciate the machine when it is upright working against gravity thinking hmm, coil can help manipulate that heavy looking piston pretty good.  But then I see all those 12v batteries under the bench.  ??? gees. how much power is going to that coil?  Not a small coil either.  So the magnets hold up the piston, that high infact. Then the coil just has to cancel out just enough of the stator magnets field just to overcome the weight of the piston assy, and then disconnect the power and the piston rises again. So we would have to measure and calculate how much energy it takes to let the piston drop and compare that to the output energy. some look at it like oh, just turn on the coil and look at what it can do, not realizing, oh, it takes that much energy to to so.

Mags
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #15 on: 2020-04-13, 18:01:40 »
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Takes a while to get through it Mags -- but eventually he does it 'static'  -- then  he backs off and publishes no more  . (he's got a family I guess)
sleepless nights thinking it can do for you  . still I guess whist this pox farce continues we can revisit these things . Kindest -Duncan


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #16 on: 2020-04-13, 18:27:55 »
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Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2020-04-13, 00:49:21
Intriguing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIbBaTf9m_M

But - he has not actually measured the output power yet...

Having played with Bedini's Zero force mortor I have had some experiebce with the side of a coil induction. However turning the magnet sideways also is a new one on me.

Here is this mornings experiment. Just a magnet in the lathe and a coil from out of the junk box.
The coil is 7.1 ohms and 17.78 mH bifilar but just using one section for the test.

I was deliberately attempting to keep the coil length and the magnet legth the same. The magnet is 11mm X 38mm.

To see what was happening I connected my homemade Gauss meter to the top of the core. so that is on channel B.

The first photo is the setup

The first Syscom DSO 101 shot is with the magnet rotating CCW with the soth pole leading

The second is with the magnet rotating CW

The third is with the magnet rotating CCW with the north pole leading

The forth is with the magnet rotating CW

So there seems to be some difference between the magnetic field and the induced volatge. Does this affect Lenz is a good question.

Ron
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #17 on: 2020-04-14, 00:29:38 »
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  Thanks, Ronee - keep going on that path, will you?  intriguing.
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #18 on: 2020-04-14, 10:01:07 »

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Hi Ronee,
The voltage peaks should coincide with the times where the slope of the flux waveform is a maximum.  Thus the S shaped voltage waveform is exactly what would be expected from that flux waveform except that there is a time difference, in one case the flux waveform is lagging the voltage waveform and in another it is leading.  That can be explained by the fact that your gaussmeter probe is not in the center of the coil, it is at one end.  I don't see anything significant here, but thank you for doing the test.  Lenz only comes into the equation when the coil is loaded and its current creates its own magnetic field that imposes force onto the magnet, and that is always a drag force. 

Raymondslab's experiment is different in that the magnet oscillates back and forth, hence his voltage waveforms are more complex.  His will exhibit a voltage peak as the magnet reverses direction, and the load current there will also create a drag force against the decelerating force on the magnet mass that is being carried by the con rod.  And maybe that can explain his apparent anomalous result.  When his coil is unloaded his input is driving losses that include motor losses, friction losses in his crude mechanical assembly and also heat losses on the cyclically stressed components like the cantilever spring and the con rod.  That con rod is stressed by the forces needed to decelerate/accelerate the magnet's inertial mass at each end of the stoke, and it strikes me that the Lenz force is also decelerating that mass so effectively it relieves the inertial load on the con rod.  So IMO his reduction in input power is not a sign of overunity, it is just a sign of reduced loss.

Smudge
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #19 on: 2020-04-14, 13:53:31 »
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  Ray McConnell is pretty good about responding to questions posed to him on YouTube.  Here's my recent exchange with him:

Quote
Steven Jones11 hours ago
Ray, I encourage you to put a much larger load on the output, such as a 10 or 100-ohm resistor, then repeat your test.

Ray McConnell4 hours ago
Thanks for comment ; for most efficient transfer of power from coil to load impedances must be matched.I don't have any coils for matching low resistances , but i did for the 350 ohm coil and it gained about another volt peak to peak while still lowering amperage.

Steven Jones1 second ago
Thanks for your replies!  could you show this, with your 350 ohm coil? much appreciated.

I'm hoping he will produce another video, to show "and it gained about another volt peak to peak while still lowering amperage." 

   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #20 on: 2020-04-14, 16:23:59 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2020-04-14, 10:01:07
Hi Ronee,
  That can be explained by the fact that your gaussmeter probe is not in the center of the coil, it is at one end.  I don't see anything significant here, but thank you for doing the test.  Lenz only comes into the equation when the coil is loaded and its current creates its own magnetic field that imposes force onto the magnet, and that is always a drag force. 

Smudge

Yes, I quite agree. What I thought unusual was the fact that the induced voltage did not change its polarity but that the flux polarity changed its polarity not with rotational direction but with which polarity pole was leading.

Ray's experiment while exceptional did not to my mind indicate one that would scale up. Imagine trying to reverse the direction of a large coil or large magnets and the wasted energy consumes the experiment, hence my attempt at full rotation.

Ron
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #21 on: 2020-04-14, 16:26:34 »
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Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2020-04-14, 00:29:38
  Thanks, Ronee - keep going on that path, will you?  intriguing.

Thank you for the encouragement, second attempt underway, give me a day or two.

Ron
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #22 on: 2020-04-15, 04:49:27 »
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Hi guys,

Did a very quick test of Raymonds "no drag"

It's difficult to correctly verify since it's not just "no drag" but also "no output" ... you're going to need a very strong magnet or very high speed oscillations to see enough output power to correctly measure it against the prime movers input power.
Probably why Raymond only used LED's as loads.
I can't tell if there's anything special until I get the output closer to 1 watt.

Link to my quick test: https://youtu.be/urJMGK0W1K8

Regards
Luc
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #23 on: 2020-04-15, 10:09:01 »
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   Good job, Luc!  Thanks for the quick replication and test.   O0
   Evidently Raymond's magnet is a big neo.. not cheap, I suspect.
   
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Re: Raymondslab new "no drag" device « Reply #24 on: 2020-04-15, 15:01:05 »
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Thanks PhysicsProf

Actually I think Neo magnets have come back down in price, or maybe I got use to the high prices.
 
Here's a 3 inch long x 2 inch wide x 1 inch thick N50 Neo 350lbs pull force for $57. https://www.magnet4less.com/n50-neodymium-magnets-3-in-x-2-in-x-1-in-rare-earth-block

Regards
Luc
   
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