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OverUnity Research > General - Free Energy Related > Miscellaneous Discussions (Moderator: Allcanadian) > Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice
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Author Topic: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice  (Read 3529 times)
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img  forest
Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « on: 2019-09-14, 10:57:51 »
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Hello

Could somebody make a LTSpice simuation of series and parallel tank circuits at resonant frequency with current and voltage plots ? Ho to find resonant frequency ? I'd like to test Ruslan Kulabuhov circuit in simulation. He stated something strange that two coupled resonant tank circuits with 1 to 2 ratio of resonant frequencies can convert reactive power into real. I know that simulation doesn't show us that but if the phase angle between current and voltage is really changed to 180 degrees then maybe there is something about it
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #1 on: 2019-09-14, 19:47:36 »
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You can download LTSpice and manuals here, it's free
https://www.analog.com/en/design-center/design-tools-and-calculators/ltspice-simulator.html#
If you using Linux you can run LTSpice with wine.
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #2 on: 2019-09-14, 20:00:19 »
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Example - serial and parallel LC circuits frequency analysis
   
img  Itsu
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #3 on: 2019-09-14, 21:48:14 »

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I think forest means something like the drawing  below, as mentioned here:

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3796.msg77245#msg77245


Forest, are you sure the series LC should be resonating at twice (32Khz) the input and parallel resonance frequency (16Khz)??

It does not make sense to me that way.


Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #4 on: 2019-09-15, 11:12:37 »

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I used my grenade and inductors (which i build years ago) inductance values for this setup.

My grenade (L2) measures 152uH (0.5 Ohm) and the inductor (L1) 230uH (0.4 Ohm) when put together, so when closely coupled.

When shorting the grenade (L2), the inductor (L1) measures 195.5uH and
when shorting the inductor, the grenade (L2) measures 126.3uH.
This way we could calculate the mutual inductance???

 
So for the grenade (L2) to resonate at 16Khz, i added a 655.3nF parallel cap (C2) and for the inductor
(L1) to resonate at 32Khz i added a 107.55nF series cap (C1), see drawing.

The load on the grenade (L2) is a 100 Ohm resistor.

I pulse the series LC with a 20Vpp AC square wave 50% duty cycle at 16Khz.

The coupling factor for the grenade/inductor is set at 0.7, but any guess would do i think.

First screenshot is the circuit as mentioned and the voltage (green) across the series LC (L1 C1),
the current (blue) through the series LC (L1 C1) and the voltage (red) across L1.

Second screenshot is the same circuit, but measuring the voltage (grey is hidden) and current (purple)
across and through R1.

so we see a strong tendency to resonate at 32Khz, both the series LC inductor  L1C1 (makes sense) and the
grenade output R1.

Guess the mutual inductance and thus the coupling factor are fooling around here.

But this is a start i hope for further tinkering, suggestions appreciated.

LTspice file added below.

Itsu
   
img  NickZ
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #5 on: 2019-09-15, 16:02:13 »
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   itsu:
   I also get about the same frequency on both the inductor as well as on the grenade output coil, depending on tuning and the caps used.
   I wish that I had more of the HV WIMA caps for tuning with, as it could make a difference in the coupling and output power gains. As my gains are still not OU. But, tuning the CT which is on the induction circuit to it's highest output, by using only the Kacher's output power source, first, does seam to provide for the best coupling match, and gains so far.
   I still have my set up intact, and is waiting for me to continue on with these tests. Enough time wasted on other devices, that don't provide for OU.
   This device is still the best bet yet, as far as I can see.
   Good luck with your tuning efforts. Let me know if I can be of any help.
                                                                                                           NickZ
   
img  forest
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #6 on: 2019-09-15, 20:25:08 »
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I think that there are two factors here important :
1. The series tank circuit should have a good quality factor
2. The tuning method is the key, but it's also  described in schematic

so it looks very interesting to test

Also do you see how closely it rembles Tesla transformer patent or two Tesla coils connected via ground and elevated capacitance like in some document from Meyl ?
   
img  Itsu
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #7 on: 2019-09-15, 21:36:30 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2019-09-15, 16:02:13
   itsu:
   I also get about the same frequency on both the inductor as well as on the grenade output coil, depending on tuning and the caps used.
   I wish that I had more of the HV WIMA caps for tuning with, as it could make a difference in the coupling and output power gains. As my gains are still not OU. But, tuning the CT which is on the induction circuit to it's highest output, by using only the Kacher's output power source, first, does seam to provide for the best coupling match, and gains so far.
   I still have my set up intact, and is waiting for me to continue on with these tests. Enough time wasted on other devices, that don't provide for OU.
   This device is still the best bet yet, as far as I can see.
   Good luck with your tuning efforts. Let me know if I can be of any help.
                                                                                                           NickZ

Thanks Nick,

i still try to wrap my head around this mutual inductance / coupling factor stuff first.


itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #8 on: 2019-09-15, 21:41:37 »

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I calculated the mutual inductance of my coils to be 78uH using these two websites procedures:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/408234/mutual-inductance-vs-coupling-coefficient
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/127881/how-to-identify-mutual-inductance

So the coupling factor between them should be:

k = M/√L1L2 = 78uH / √(230 x 151) = 78uH / 186uH = 0.42


But putting this k into the sim and trying to get both L1C1 in 32Khz resonance and L2C2 in 16Khz resonance seems to be not easy.

Varying the duty cycle to 15% seems better, but i need to adjust the c1 and c2 values also  :D


itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #9 on: 2019-09-16, 21:05:51 »

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I tried various combinations of duty cycle, C1 value and C2 value, but when sticking to the 16Khz
square wave input signal, 32Khz series resonance for L1C1 and 16Khz parallel resonance for L2C2 scenario
i cannot get any usefull output on R1.

The second harmonic (32Khz) signal on L1C1 simply stays distorted.
There is a sine wave across R1, but too low.



Better is when using the 3th harmonic of 48Khz for L1C1 (C1 = 59n), then a nice sine wave appears across L1, but
still the output across R1 is low and shows strong signs of the 48Khz signal.

Best is to use 16khz across the whole circuit, so for the input, for series LC L1C1 (C1 430n) and for parallel
LC L2C2.

So i seriously doubt that using 32Khz resonance for the inbetween series LC is the way to go (secret).


Anyway, feel free to start experimenting with LTSpice yourself.

Regards Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #10 on: 2019-09-18, 09:52:12 »

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I have unshelved my grenade/inductor and set it up to be driven by a gate driver.

Using 16Khz square wave 50% duty cycle (DC) signal as input and tuning the inductor (series LC) to 32Khz
and the grenade (parallel LC) to 16Khz with a 40W bulb as a load.

The signals strongly look like the ones in the LTspice sim above and fail to light up the bulb.
I will do some further experiments with it and probably will shoot a video to show these results.


Itsu
   
img  forest
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #11 on: 2019-09-18, 13:36:58 »
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Itsu

I have the feeling that you simulate different circuit. Look here :
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2Fca%2F4d%2F2a%2Fca4d2a27f6ac1a5d2f4ab601ad2ad66b.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F516365913517034535%2F&docid=kAznm8G2tmEBQM&tbnid=eLZzOdtT90EmnM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjL94i2r9rkAhXrRxUIHZLvDVwQMwhCKAAwAA..i&w=513&h=837&client=ubuntu&bih=899&biw=1280&q=konstantin%20meyl%20free%20energy&ved=0ahUKEwjL94i2r9rkAhXrRxUIHZLvDVwQMwhCKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

The circuit from Ruslan Kulabuhov is a modification of Meyl explanation of Tesla magnifying transmitter.  The capacitance between two Tesla coils and the secondaries form series resonant circuit, the parallel tank circuit is just a capacitor connected to the receiver secondary.
   
img  forest
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #12 on: 2019-09-18, 14:05:26 »
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Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #13 on: 2019-09-18, 15:03:04 »

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Forest,

i went from your first post above in where you stated you wanted to test Ruslan his circuit.

The only circuit from Ruslan i know with series and parallel resonant coils is the one with the grenade and inductor.

It seems you now switch to some circuit used by Meyl, so yes then your feeling is right as i simulate / test a different circuit.

Sorry about that, my mistake.

Regards Itsu
   
img  NickZ
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #14 on: 2019-09-18, 15:59:22 »
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  itsu:
  Yet, your tests on the Ruslan design are useful, to guys like myself.
  As I am still looking for the missing link, in that type of device, and the proper coupling factor has to be the key.
  One would think that by now, even by mistake, we would have found out what it takes to achieve OU, or self running. But, that's not the case...
   
img  forest
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #15 on: 2019-09-18, 17:20:00 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2019-09-18, 15:03:04
Forest,

i went from your first post above in where you stated you wanted to test Ruslan his circuit.

The only circuit from Ruslan i know with series and parallel resonant coils is the one with the grenade and inductor.

It seems you now switch to some circuit used by Meyl, so yes then your feeling is right as i simulate / test a different circuit.

Sorry about that, my mistake.

Regards Itsu

Sorry about that, but I believe the grenade is just that : circuit with Tesla transmitter and receiver coupled like Meyl presented. The push-pull is just misleading us - the same should be possible with two Tesla coils made with air-core coils. The Q factor of coil in series resonant circuit is in my opinion the real energy gain and depends heavily on voltage in circuit.I'll try to simulate it if I make this ltspice working for me.
   
img  Itsu
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #16 on: 2019-09-18, 20:52:11 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2019-09-18, 15:59:22
  itsu:
  Yet, your tests on the Ruslan design are useful, to guys like myself.
  As I am still looking for the missing link, in that type of device, and the proper coupling factor has to be the key.
  One would think that by now, even by mistake, we would have found out what it takes to achieve OU, or self running. But, that's not the case...

Hi Nick,

i understand, but i thought that using this 1:2 frequency relation for input:inductor frequency would
lead to something, but both my simulation tests as real life tests show nothing abnormal.

Best results still are with all components running at 16Khz (or whatever frequency used).
Even then i have about 9W input into the gate driver and 3.5W output in the 40W bulb which glows dimly.

Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #17 on: 2019-09-18, 20:59:37 »

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Quote from: forest on 2019-09-18, 17:20:00
Sorry about that, but I believe the grenade is just that : circuit with Tesla transmitter and receiver coupled like Meyl presented. The push-pull is just misleading us - the same should be possible with two Tesla coils made with air-core coils. The Q factor of coil in series resonant circuit is in my opinion the real energy gain and depends heavily on voltage in circuit.I'll try to simulate it if I make this ltspice working for me.

Ok Forest,

i do not see that the Grenade is just that, but when using LTspice or LTspice xvii which i am using,
you could easily build your own diagram and show us what it can do, its not that hard to master.


Regards Itsu
   
img  AlienGrey
Re: Resonant tank circuit in LTSpice « Reply #18 on: 2020-04-29, 20:13:54 »
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At the risk this thread is abandoned, yet the only one I can find on the Ruslan Dally Sregey devices.

What I want to bring up on the subject is the grenade-device. Sir I have watched all your PLL videos
as i too have rescued my device (a Sergey circuit) the main device a 37.5m length has an inductance of 75uhry + a 0.3uf across the winding) and the
19m inductive winding of 87.5uhry and a 0.15 uf across its winding as per Sergey circuit resulting in a 27 and 47 khz and each has peek resonance,
yet above and below this frequency rang response quickly attenuates to nothing.

However I notice something missing or what seams to me to be missing, However I don't want to really stick my neck out just yet till i make some further tests

But basically it appears to be standard practice to just pulse the grenade with a pulse at a peek square wave from the yoke feeding the inductive winding however I feel all around this device it should be a sine wave..

If you look at the original Dally device and the Adrian Guska device he is producing a lot of power yet his windings are really thin and so to the Dally device yet Ruslan device it all appears to go through the yoke push pull with huge thick windings for this circuit and yet no gain.

I was wondering what the latest info on this device might now be no and if you have any pointers? 

kind regards.
 
   
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