Thank you Chet, this gives me much more detail than what Brad shared.
I would be interested in how many people are here. It looks like at least 10. Is there more?
It would be good to know just what all the previous claims were. I may be able to help with seeing those through to completion. I know F6 will just mock me no matter what I say but I have 4 or 5 requirements for pursuing research of OU systems. While I fail to insist upon a self-looping requirement (as I will explain below) as being one, I select from the main possibilities:
1. Is the system safe? Something that is harmful, like nuclear is to be avoided. That is not practical.
2. Is it easy to make and affordable? Is it better than solar? Because if it is so expensive then what is the point?
3. Are the parts too exotic/costly/rare? Will the parts become obsolete? Not interested.
4. Is it stable or do you have to always fiddle with it. Like the Benitez system with basic interrupter, or the SSG with trigger coil where it requires attention. This sort of thing can be overcome with additional feedback looping, but some systems are just too unstable to bother with.
So when I said that there are about 100 different kinds of systems I know, most fail to pass this test. That doesn't mean they should be ignored, or not considered here, but I bring this up because maybe some of the claims focused on here had these problems. I deal with the real world and am not so much into the theoretical (which is what all these forums tend to stay at--as evidenced with your statement about F6 merely dismissing Benitez by just reading his patent). So this is why I ask these questions because it is one thing to merely try and prove OU and another to want to practically use it. When I started out in this I found many more people merely wanting to just prove OU existed, maybe just to know that what they were taught was not true. But now I find people just want to use the tech, and that is one reason they don't bother with these old forums that are still trying to see if it exists. As it sounds like you guys are, so these people are not interested in the useless and endless debates. They just want something practical. They asked for certain things and I provided them with what I could. My reasoning was "do something rather than nothing". I have found many a company spend years and a lot of money working towards the big deal, only to never get that. Instead I encourage such people to do something small. Start small and just do something rather than nothing. It may not be that impressive but at least it is something. Something you can build upon.
So maybe that can help here. Maybe some of the systems were too complicated. And you have to decide if it is actually practical. Now we all agree that we can get useful energy from the sun with solar panels. How practical is that? Not worth it in most of the US over grid power. If you have to replace your batteries every so many years you will never be better than the grid and it is not worth your time and hassle. Prices have come down, and we now have battery charging tech that allows you to keep your batteries. That was my first objective to solve the alternative energy main problem. Solves the cost problem and environmental problem (well not the pollution caused by making solar panels). So that is the context from which we are going to compare any other free energy system with. If we can't do better than that then there is really no point in investing time into any potential OU system. However, here in Michigan solar is not a solution at all. I did a test this last winter. I used 1600W of solar panels (that still give that with good sun) to see just what could be powered over the winter. For 5 months I could barely power a new refrigerator. And for 5 days that was not enough. There is no sun here at all, so solar is not a solution here as it can be elsewhere.
I bring this up because in the same way we can get energy from the sun, we can also get higher frequency energy from the galaxy. And there are transducers in development that are doing that. That is very promising, but unless the cost is reasonable then what is the point? So I say that out of around 100 different kinds of systems, most of them are not practical. I don't care if people are offended by me saying that, as I am not pushing a claim her as much as making a point that my goal in all this is not to merely prove OU exists but rather to solve the problems and provide reasonable solutions. And I have clearly done a similar thing by having many batteries being rejuvenated and preserved (which improves solar and wind systems).
I don't really care to try and prove something out here. I don't need recognition. But I obviously and willing to help people learn about these things as I can. The hostile environment just makes for a waste of my time. And that is no doubt because such people do not want you people to succeed. Yes some people can be hostile because they are sick of false claims. But we can see easy enough, as I believe you allude to here, who is really trying to prevent others from succeeding. I don't assume such people actually believe what they come across as saying. Many times such people are merely the competition that tries to gather information, get you to work for them for free, while they attack you to not only draw out more information from your reactions but to try and discredit you so that they have a bigger market. The market could be for selling OU systems (as I know several people who do exactly that) or for the conventional energy.
As for some systems that are easy enough to do you could try:
1. The Benitez Switch 7 idea. That is relatively easy to do. I have already done a motor kit version of that. I am debating about doing actual system. The interrupter is problematic, but if you are just looking for a proof of concept it really isn't that hard to do. Again, the issue is stability of the interrupter. There are solutions for that. But if you have some minor tweeking and can run it for several weeks, would that not fulfill your requirements? I don't know exactly what level of expectation you have along those lines. Again, we use Arduino control with mosfet switching to replace the interrupter. And as we always joke around saying, if you are going to pulse an inductor, you may as well push a magnet for free. So adding motor power is just another useful output. So that system would be my stage two process of the Selfish Circuit Loving Paths idea. The 4 or how many more of the same batteries just rotate around periodically. We even have a latching contactor that is switched by the Arduino programing that runs the motor. Now a key thing to consider is the longevity of the batteries. Not all pulsing is good, and many pulsing systems ruin batteries. So again, are you using the right pulsing that will not ruin the batteries in short order, and if you can get it so that the batteries do not wear out that is even better. So far we have seen useless batteries not only be reclaimed years ago, but continue to stay that way and/or improve more over time. But if you do something like the Tesla Switch then it will ruin your batteries very fast. So what is the point if the batteries become consumables?
Now Benitez make one of the most remarkable claims in patent history. It is easy enough to replicate, so I encourage you to do that. There are three basic systems. The first is with capacitors, and I'm developing that right now. The second is with two sets of batteries which is easiest. The last is the same as the Don Smith type of system which requires experience with resonance engineering.
2. A simple test to do is my old brushless fan idea. I have videos on that showing all the details. Not the best quality or presentation but good enough. One guy in the EU makes his living off if selling that to give you an idea about how many people have these working. The idea in this case is not to make a self-looped system which is NOT required by your pdf statement. So I fail to see why you bring that up as something necessary. That is practical but it is different than OU. You have what I just wrote about in the last post. A fan used normally and the CFMs and input entered in. Now you merely change the flyback diode to have a series load with it and you instantly have more output. With replacing of the transistors with fets and a fast gate driver you can have better electrical output and improved efficiency. Many people reject this idea because the more basic setups may not be enough to sustain rotation. So they automatically dismiss such models as pointless. But that is not the way your pdf states it. OU is not self-sustaining self-looping. If a motor is running at the same rpm and producing the same CFMs as it was before the additional electrical load then you have OU even without self-looping. But I can see that many people on these forums don't care about OU or extra energy. They just insist it has to be a certain amount. That is fine, but thousands of people actually do use these fans and appreciate the extra energy nevertheless. And billions of these fans are in the world today, in every desktop and laptops. So this is simple to show yourself. I don't really care about this forum trying to come to some consensus. What is important is that people prove things to themselves. A company putting a stamp on it doesn't mean you have it running for you in your home. Again, this is something rather than nothing approach here. But I can just feel the temperature rise with some people here. Anyway, it is as simple as that if you are willing to not insist upon a self-looping type of system.
3. There are resonant systems with basic tank circuits and coils that could be done.
4. Stan M fuel cell is relatively simple to do once you understand 1. the cell conditioning, 2. the phase lock looping. It may be somewhat involved to make a one off, but the testing is not difficult.
5. And another relatively simple kind of system is the Heaviside flow collection systems using high frequency dioples. These allow you to collect extra energy while still using the dipole as normal without hindering it. Anything collected is free energy. It is analogous to solar panels.
These are some suggestions. Obviously some people are going to get very upset for me mentioning these things. Some will welcome the suggestions. Others will be upset because they don't think there is anything in any of these and will say that I am just making more claims. And others will no doubt be upset because they don't want you guys to do such things for reasons mentioned. I don't care, do what you want.
But I am rather amazed that you guys have had this forum all these years and never proved anything out yet. I can't imagine spending all this time and never getting anywhere. No one has proved it out and no one using it? Well A.King has claimed some level of satisfaction that I know of. I guess I could not understand people spending so much time and never getting anywhere. You have to ask yourself why is it not working out and why am I not moving on with other things in life.
As for F6, while I can't speak for what he believes or disbelieves about OU, his slander is a fraud of sorts. He has now been shown to be completely self-contradictory. He has zero credibility. His rage against me is so irrational and dogmatic that it suggests something else is at work. When you guys tolerate that self-contradictory display, and the game he has played, then you ruin everything this forum stands for. And I realize what Brad says about F6 not tolerating people making claims here. That is another matter. Everything else he wrote was pathetic. How can either of you have any respect for such a person? He doesn't have a sound mind and is manifestly prejudiced. At the very least he is needlessly hostile. But that is not at all what my point is. He blistered off railing accusations that he was doing himself. He doesn't even realize how illogical he is. How can he even understand science or the scientific method if he can't understand the law of non-contradiction? Obviously he is just going to destroy any good work you do here. How could you trust him with anything?
Well I leave you with this. Do what you want. I really don't care if people are offended with claims when everyone makes claims that need the same level of proof. That is a double standard not just with counter claims, but with being allowed to go on spewing out such hatred. If you can't moderate people to be at least polite then this whole forum is useless. Any forum that doesn't have that basic standard is a waste of time.
Thanks for your efforts,
Rick
Rick
This forum is filled with volunteers ,persons who toil daily on their dime and their time towards
this cause ...some for decades...
We have centuries of combined life experience and hands on work ,in all fields ,education and skill levels,
Going back to the time before the last reboot of whatever was new under the FE sun in the last century !
I feel its that FE wisdom which guides us here ...as well as the ability to do proper measurements
[usually with interaction from members with the skill set.
Rick
Quote
As for the guidelines I see that some people do not follow them. And the major problem with the part about OU claims is that it would have to equally apply to OU disproof claims. Failure to do that automatically creates a hostile environment against OU BECAUSE it allows everyone and anyone to have a double standard and claim a disproof of something without the same standard of proving that in the same way. But I am not sure any claim has been allowed here yet.??
end quote
While most OU claims don't get past the realization or awareness of the error ...
it is true that persons who Dismiss a claim or even a patent as erroneous ..
should take the "minute" and highlight the error or their perception of the error.
very recently F6FLT did dismiss the Benitez Patent here based on a "read thru"
but no hint to the error for the readers here ?
this is especially important in light of your present discussion ,and I agree
with your above quote , one sided dismissal or failing to explain a position...
is unacceptable ....generic taunts or insults to the claimant don't do anybody any good.
Rick
Quote
Have you ever had an OU claim be concluded as proven here? Would people be expected to believe that as proven?
end quote
There has never been a case of any claim here or anywhere else surviving the process .
There have been plenty of "still open" undetermined claims which have been hindered
by the inability to loop and selfrun.
typically very low power experiments.
many have fallen to environmental [man made] or electric grid being the source of the energy.
and a few hearsay claims seemed to have potential from gains outside of normal understanding
but were not sustainable.
and then there are all the other ongoing experiments which are works in progress.
So Rick
if you did share a true gain mechanism or anomaly here for others to replicate.
and it survived the measurement protocols ,which ruled out "the mains grid" or all other errors.
[we have found tonnes of "other errors],
it would be the first.
I must add ...Duncans Sonic Boiler thingy ...I really feel there is something very special
about water and electricity [experimenting there]
There were times we played with this but the gains were very low and ruling out Chemical
or other unknown causes for the excess heat was not really doable with the limited resources.
IMO
this group of fellows couldn't be discouraged from this hunt [and others at other forums]
we've been thru plenty and it seems we just get past every bump ...
and for the most part we really like each other .
one more comment about F6FLT
he is a builder who hunts the same elusive prey.
it completely separates him from another mentioned here ,persons who naysay regardless
their actual skill sets ...based on a firm belief system which does not allow room for
anything outside their own comfort zone.
IMO such persons can be a different kind of fraud ..
sincerely
Chet K
feature is available which provides a place all members can chat, either publicly or privately.
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