TPU Continuum

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TinMan

Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #75 on: 2019-02-08, 16:54:13 »

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Ion

I refreshed the page ,and your comment about putting a diode across the coil was gone

Giving that idea some thought,i wouldnt have thought that the inductive kickback wouldnt be an issue,as the current continues to flow in the same direction during the kickback part of the cycle,meaning that the induced magnetic field would also remain the same.

But anyway,i will give it a try.

Brad.

« Last Edit: 2019-02-09, 02:59:40 by TinMan »

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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

ion

Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #76 on: 2019-02-08, 17:42:08 »

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It's turtles all the way down

Quote from: TinMan on 2019-02-08, 16:54:13

Ion

I refreshed the page ,and your comment about putting a diode across the coil was gone

Giving that idea some thought,i wouldnt have thought that the inductive kickback would be an issue,as the current continues to flow in the same direction during the kickback part of the cycle,meaning that the induced magnetic field would also remain the same.

But anyway,i will give it a try.

Brad.

Hi Brad

I am looking around for some cores to try this out on, but find the stuff I have doesn't work in any of the modes talked about, even AC. I didn't want to post something I hadn't tested first so I deleted it.

Yes, the current tries to flow in the same direction, but can't as the circuit is opened so the current is now drastically reduced when the arc (spark) is extinguished at the moment the circuit opens. During the exact moment of circuit break the coil voltage goes sky high (current goes to near zero) and oscillates, probably demagnetizing the core.

Think old school ignition circuits for autos, the field collapses because the current path is broken by the points. The rapid decay of flux due to lack of a current path induces into the HV winding and establishes a new current path in the spark plug gap.

The idea was to keep the current flowing in the same direction with the diode and allowing a soft landing for the flux. The diode was to be placed across the coil and kept there while the power supply is momentarily placed across the diode, plus on anode neg on cathode.

As for AC working better than DC, it is probably the soft flux landing as the current goes to zero, but won't be sure till I test it.

Your HF observation is interesting and needs to be tested further. I wonder if the HF can create a preferred bias in the domains?
This would be new to me if it did. There are probably other explanations, but this eludes me ATM

Critical and focused observation is the key to discovering new things.

---------------------------

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ion	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #77 on: 2019-02-08, 19:16:49 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	FWIW, I found a piece of steel lying around in the shape of a large U, 1 1/4 x 1/2 x 4" long. It had a very weak magnet effect so I totally erased it using a VHS bulk tape eraser. When finished it couldn't pick up a pin. Using a diode across the coil, I can magnetize the piece from DC very strongly in either polarity with a quick tap to a very small 12V battery. It does not drop the keeper, and even when the keeper is removed, it attracts it strongly again. I can reverse the coil leads and a quick tap demagnetizes it, a long series of tap restores full strength. I will do some static Gauss measurements vs current pulse to see if I can get a handle on this. I suspect the piece of steel was originally made of a magnet grade material, but very old so may predate Alnico. So a soft steel is what is needed for these tests, not old school magnet grade material. However this could lead to some interesting experiments. The fact that this piece is so easily strongly magnetized in either direction after complete demagnetization may lend some credence to the work of Floyd Sweet's VTA. Could it be there is a domain memory effect that can be utilized? You may wish to experiment with this. I'm sure this is well explored in the everyday magnet makers knowledge base, as it is the usual method for making magnets, but who knows what other discoveries may lurk in Floyd's process. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

TinMan	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #78 on: 2019-02-09, 12:31:54 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4727	author=ion link=topic=3710.msg72201#msg72201 date=1549653409] Quote FWIW, I found a piece of steel lying around in the shape of a large U, 1 1/4 x 1/2 x 4" long. It had a very weak magnet effect so I totally erased it using a VHS bulk tape eraser. When finished it couldn't pick up a pin. Ok,i tried placing a diode across the coil,so as the current can continue to flow through the coil once the source is disconnected,and it made no difference--still cant get the two halves to stick together. But,using an AC current,and as Graham showed,i can get the two halves to stick together. Remember,this is only with using ferrite core halves,as when using steel there is no problem at all to get the keeper to stick. Quote Using a diode across the coil, I can magnetize the piece from DC very strongly in either polarity with a quick tap to a very small 12V battery. It does not drop the keeper, and even when the keeper is removed, it attracts it strongly again. I can reverse the coil leads and a quick tap demagnetizes it, a long series of tap restores full strength. Yes,this is how i magnetise my screwdrivers when need be. Quote However this could lead to some interesting experiments. The fact that this piece is so easily strongly magnetized in either direction after complete demagnetization may lend some credence to the work of Floyd Sweet's VTA. Could it be there is a domain memory effect that can be utilized? You may wish to experiment with this. I'm sure this is well explored in the everyday magnet makers knowledge base, as it is the usual method for making magnets, but who knows what other discoveries may lurk in Floyd's process. I have never looked into Floyd's Sweet's device,so i may go have a quick look now. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

ion	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #79 on: 2019-02-09, 13:48:48 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Brad said: Quote I have never looked into Floyd's Sweet's device,so i may go have a quick look now. As you are a believer that energy can come from magnets, you surely should study all you can on the Floyd Sweet and Hans Coler devices. Believe it or not Chris Sykes (EMJunkie) did some very good research on the Sweet device (before he became a provocateur), which is on his website HYIQ.org. Like many OU devices it remains an enigma with no successful replications that I know of. It involved demagnetizing a particular type of magnetic material, then conditioning in such a way that the domains were easily flipped between states with a small control signal, if I recall correctly. There are also many good papers on the Coler device floating around, I believe Smudge studied it deeply. I will retry the experiments with ferrites, but as yet I can't get any that I had on hand to stick, AC or DC. Will look around a bit more. From what did you salvage your ferrites of interest? Regards --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Dave45

Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #80 on: 2019-02-09, 14:44:03 »

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Thinking out loud

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TPU Continuum

20190209_083939.jpg (2340.1 kB, 4160x2340 - viewed 647 times.)

TinMan	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #81 on: 2019-02-09, 15:08:37 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4727	author=ion link=topic=3710.msg72240#msg72240 date=1549720128] Quote As you are a believer that energy can come from magnets, you surely should study all you can on the Floyd Sweet and Hans Coler devices. I will now. Quote Believe it or not Chris Sykes (EMJunkie) did some very good research on the Sweet device (before he became a provocateur), which is on his website HYIQ.org. Like many OU devices it remains an enigma with no successful replications that I know of. I just dont know why Chris went pear shaped after some tried to explain the difference between AC and DC coupling on a scope. Quote It involved demagnetizing a particular type of magnetic material, then conditioning in such a way that the domains were easily flipped between states with a small control signal, if I recall correctly. Alnico magnets are very easy to flip the magnetic polarity in them. Quote I will retry the experiments with ferrites, but as yet I can't get any that I had on hand to stick, AC or DC. Will look around a bit more. From what did you salvage your ferrites of interest? I got mine from old CRT computer monitor flyback transformers--like Gum's. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #82 on: 2019-02-09, 15:59:00 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4727	ION Are there any threads here on OUR in regards to floyd sweets VTA ? Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

ion	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #83 on: 2019-02-09, 16:21:28 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: TinMan on 2019-02-09, 15:59:00 ION Are there any threads here on OUR in regards to floyd sweets VTA ? Brad If you do a search here for "Floyd Sweet VTA" there are lots of hits but I didn't find a dedicated thread. Maybe I missed it. As for the cores, I'll find some of those as I have lots of flyback transformers lying around. Has anyone tried yoke ferrites? --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Smudge

Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #84 on: 2019-02-09, 16:29:59 »

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Does this help?

Smudge

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Construction of Floyd Sweet's VTA by Michael Watson.pdf (293.1 kB - downloaded 259 times.)

ion	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #85 on: 2019-02-09, 16:44:31 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: Smudge on 2019-02-09, 16:29:59 Does this help? Smudge Thank you Smudge, a fairly thorough paper on the device. I figured you would know a lot about this device. Do you have any conclusions?, as the TVQ Misiolek group thinks it may have been faked. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Grumpy

Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #86 on: 2019-02-09, 16:55:38 »

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tExB=qr

Ref. to TVQ group's thoughts on the VTA:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2704.0;attach=15736

TinMan	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #87 on: 2019-02-09, 17:02:50 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4727	Quote from: Smudge on 2019-02-09, 16:29:59 Does this help? Smudge No,not much. Already looked at that paper. From what i can make out,a block magnet has coils wrapped around each face-length,width,and height. This is to flip the field to either the length sides,widths sides,or height sides--correct? Then we have to have this barium ferrite magnet,and condition it,so as the poles can easily be flipped. Seems like a whole lot of mucking around to me. I will draw up a much simple version,using !off the shelf! parts,and no conditioning needed. I'll get the parts needed,and one of you EE guys can design the simple switching circuit. We will need an AC square wave,where the pulse width on each half of the cycle can be altered--say from 2% to 30%,where the positive and negative pulse width alters the same percentage when you turn the pot. The frequency will need to be around the 50-100Hz range--a starting point. We do not need these special conditioned magnets. All we need is some Alnico and Neodymium magnets used together to get the same effect. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

ion	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #88 on: 2019-02-09, 17:28:30 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Just use a good quality audio amplifier of sufficient power output and your FG driving it. Do be careful to use proper fusing or current limiting or you may fry the amp. A car power amp would also work well. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

TinMan	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #89 on: 2019-02-09, 17:40:43 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4727	Quote from: ion on 2019-02-09, 17:28:30 Just use a good quality audio amplifier of sufficient power output and your FG driving it. Do be careful to use proper fusing or current limiting or you may fry the amp. A car power amp would also work well. I do not think my FG can have(for example) a 5% duty cycle on each half of the cycle. If i make the top have(positive)5%,then the bottom half(reverse current) will be 95%. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #90 on: 2019-02-09, 17:41:59 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4727	Ok,below is my version of a solid state reluctance generator. Thought's ? Brad Fixed ------------------------ TPU Continuum Solid State Reluctance Generator.1.JPG (59.4 kB, 739x456 - viewed 575 times.) --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

ion	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #91 on: 2019-02-09, 20:10:37 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: TinMan on 2019-02-09, 17:40:43 I do not think my FG can have(for example) a 5% duty cycle on each half of the cycle. If i make the top have(positive)5%,then the bottom half(reverse current) will be 95%. Brad In that case to keep it simple , use a differentiator (C-R) from the square out of your FG. This should give you nice sharp pulses and you can adjust the duty by changing the C-R time constant. I couldn't guess if your idea will work or not but hey, give it a go, nothing to lose and everything to gain. « Last Edit: 2019-02-10, 02:29:13 by ion » --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

TinMan	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #92 on: 2019-02-10, 01:59:11 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4727	Here is a video i found in relation to switching the poles on an Alnico magnet when alongside a Neo magnet,by Robert Murray Smith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4YD8Nvyfa4 Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

gotoluc

Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #93 on: 2019-02-10, 02:25:57 »

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Quote from: TinMan on 2019-02-10, 01:59:11

Here is a video i found in relation to switching the poles on an Alnico magnet when alongside a Neo magnet,by Robert Murray Smith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4YD8Nvyfa4

Brad

And here is a video from 2016 of a test device I made using Roberts idea and going further to a flux gate.
You can read Robert's comment below my video.

https://youtu.be/0VlhMI5tv5Y

Cheers
Luc

Magluvin

Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #94 on: 2019-02-10, 02:31:02 »

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Quote from: TinMan on 2019-02-09, 17:41:59

Ok,below is my version of a solid state reluctance generator.

Thought's ?

Brad

Fixed

Using an alnico magnet where it is in your diagram, is it that since it is magnetized, it pulls more of the neo flux in that direction than to the L1 leg of the magnetic circuit? And then the pulse coil temporarily reverses the alnico so that more flux of the neo goes to the L1 leg?

Mags

TinMan	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #95 on: 2019-02-10, 02:53:13 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4727	Quote from: Magluvin on 2019-02-10, 02:31:02 Mags Quote Using an alnico magnet where it is in your diagram, is it that since it is magnetized, it pulls more of the neo flux in that direction than to the L1 leg of the magnetic circuit? Yes Quote And then the pulse coil temporarily reverses the alnico so that more flux of the neo goes to the L1 leg? No Once a pulse is sent to the coil around the alnico magnet,the magnetic domains are reversed in the magnet,and the magnet retains it's flipped field without current flowing through the coil around the magnet.. You then need another pulse of current in the opposite direction to once again flip the alnico's magnetic field. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #96 on: 2019-02-10, 03:03:28 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4727	Quote from: gotoluc on 2019-02-10, 02:25:57 And here is a video from 2016 of a test device I made using Roberts idea and going further to a flux gate. You can read Robert's comment below my video. https://youtu.be/0VlhMI5tv5Y Cheers Luc Yes,just like that Luc. If you still have that setup,all you need to do now is wrap a coil around the keeper you placed on top as your flux bridge. Wish i had me some of those large Alnico magnets like your's. They don't have them on AU ebay,just small ones. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

ion	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #97 on: 2019-02-10, 03:42:00 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: gotoluc on 2019-02-10, 02:25:57 And here is a video from 2016 of a test device I made using Roberts idea and going further to a flux gate. You can read Robert's comment below my video. https://youtu.be/0VlhMI5tv5Y Cheers Luc Hi Luc Nice demo video of the operation of the flux switcher. Question: what thickness are the yellow spacers and what is the material made of? I would be curious to know what effect a pulse of various energy levels is required to just switch the AlNiCo, without the Neos in the circuit, and what Gauss level you get at the poles vs energy in. Then compare that to the equivalent steady state power required just using a piece of soft steel in place of the AlNiCo. I'm wondering if pulse energy could be made very sharp from a much higher voltage source with less duty cycle, and what effect that would have. Regards, --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

JimBoot

Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #98 on: 2019-02-10, 03:48:57 »

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Quote from: TinMan on 2019-02-10, 03:03:28

Yes,just like that Luc.

If you still have that setup,all you need to do now is wrap a coil around the keeper you placed on top as your flux bridge.

Wish i had me some of those large Alnico magnets like your's.
They don't have them on AU ebay,just small ones.

Brad

What devices would alnico most likely be used in?

ion	Re: TPU Continuum « Reply #99 on: 2019-02-10, 04:06:46 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: JimBoot on 2019-02-10, 03:48:57 What devices would alnico most likely be used in? Hi Jim Large and small speakers of the 40's, 50's, 60's and D'Arsonval meters movements or large to small and even toy PM motors to name a few. Anything before the ceramic magnet era. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy