Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure

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Author Topic: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure (Read 266753 times)

ion	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #75 on: 2010-09-29, 23:01:18 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	My take is this: One should be able to perform a simple experiment with a simplified configuration proving anomalous energy production. To move on to full scale builds of presumed Kilowatt power production before proof of concept is expensive and costly. Look at the FTPU.......simple to the extreme, but is something happening in this unit that is hitherto unknown? If any of this stuff is real, this is a good starting point. There are only so many combinations of connections available to such a device. Deriving a concept for this device alone would be a giant step. "it is the coils and how they interact" In the "Rant Room" post I suggested that we might embark on a discovery path if we heeded the clues. But the problem with forums is lack of focus, thread derails, too many pet WAG's that are not even developed into viable theories with little bench testing and verification or nullification. I see real development as extremely difficult because of this. I believe the secret could be cracked, but it would require a level of organization, teamwork, task assignment, and a managed R&D effort that you just won't find possible on a forum. Try to imagine something as important as a Manhatten type project being successfully executed by a forum. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

poynt99	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #76 on: 2010-09-30, 02:33:44 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	If the information is authentic, it will be a good start and certainly a great help. The bifilar test has already proven to be interesting, albeit it is still unclear if this is the kick SM talked about. I'll bet few will do anything with the info, and even fewer, the insight to have success with it. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Grumpy	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #77 on: 2010-09-30, 03:21:45 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: ION on 2010-09-29, 23:01:18 My take is this: One should be able to perform a simple experiment with a simplified configuration proving anomalous energy production. To move on to full scale builds of presumed Kilowatt power production before proof of concept is expensive and costly. Look at the FTPU.......simple to the extreme, but is something happening in this unit that is hitherto unknown? If any of this stuff is real, this is a good starting point. There are only so many combinations of connections available to such a device. Deriving a concept for this device alone would be a giant step. "it is the coils and how they interact" In the "Rant Room" post I suggested that we might embark on a discovery path if we heeded the clues. But the problem with forums is lack of focus, thread derails, too many pet WAG's that are not even developed into viable theories with little bench testing and verification or nullification. I see real development as extremely difficult because of this. I believe the secret could be cracked, but it would require a level of organization, teamwork, task assignment, and a managed R&D effort that you just won't find possible on a forum. Try to imagine something as important as a Manhatten type project being successfully executed by a forum. Well, we can all go it alone, as we have been, or form a team of devoted individuals. Only one team because we will be lucky to get enough people for one. Teams can be good if everyone does their part, else they fail. Some might reluctantly join and later drop out. Others may want to join and be excluded. Others may have secret motives and the whole thing becomes a soap opera of betrayal and deceit. Anyone interested in a team effort?

ion	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #78 on: 2010-09-30, 12:37:30 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	A FEW GOOD MEN Some of us are builders, some of us theorize, some of us dissect, some of us analyze. Some like testing on the bench. Some are good at video enhancement. We all have unique skills. Would that we could organize the TPU project so that more skills are brought into the mix. If we are to succeed we need to get better organized so that the very finest talents can be appropriately utilized and targeted to solve some of the mysteries surrounding the TPU. We need a few men who are really good at video restoration and enhancement to clean up some of the existing TPU videos and stills. Anyone out there that has done some film industry type restoration work would be very helpful. Frame merging and sharpening software exists for this task. This is vital to a better understanding of the construction and wiring of the various TPU's ........Any takers? We need a few good men to do some detective work tracking down some of the people seen in the video's, perhaps getting statements from them. Also maybe finding out if Steve Mark is still alive and his state of health. One man, John Sanchez was an observer n the lab where the TPU was tested. It would be good to hear his impressions. Also, more than one camera was shooting in one of the video's...who was that man...where is the tape. How many people in the video's are still alive? A young man was helping Steven as he cut one of the devices apart. Who was he? Also pieces of the cut TPU were given to those present to take home. Does anyone realize how valuable it would be to have one of those pieces? We need a few good men who have people skills, that can make phone calls, e.g. contacting Dr. Schinzingers family members to see if any of them recall him talking about the device and what he may have said. Also perhaps contacting Michael Fennel that wrote the engineering report. Other co-workers at Extreme Technology, Spheric Audio Labs, or even "Spheric" himself. David Doleshall, Jack Durban. We need a few detective types to piece the whole story together. We need two or three solid theories of operation so that we could do some testing along those lines until some hint of success allows us to consolidate to a single theory. A lot of work was done in the past, but it was all disorganized and now lies buried in so many derailed threads the wheat has gotten all mixed with the chaff, and the valuable kernels are fading from view. Some of this needs to be exhumed and put into a cohesive form...a large task indeed. Also in the SM / Lindsay emails I keep discovering names and events that should be followed up e.g. SM lamented not having Dr. Schinzingers notebook (May 8 2006) could this be preserved in his estate.....could we have someone in the family scan it and send it to us? Much work has been left undone. I would suggest that recruiting be done in the public forum. Actual work in private. Requirements to get into the private? Expertise in a given area. Just my 2cents « Last Edit: 2010-09-30, 14:15:18 by ION » --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Grumpy	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #79 on: 2010-09-30, 14:58:33 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: ION on 2010-09-30, 12:37:30 We need two or three solid theories of operation so that we could do some testing along those lines until some hint of success allows us to consolidate to a single theory. I have a solid theory of operation. Enough to test and verify. Some supporting math.

ion	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #80 on: 2010-09-30, 17:01:50 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	From G: Quote I have a solid theory of operation. Enough to test and verify. Some supporting math. That's great. If you feel you are on a good path keep at it and add embellishments as you see fit. Might be a time when you want to throw the paper into the ring for peer review and comments. If you choose to keep it close to your chest that is OK too. I used to think I had a theory, but was never able to develop it to the point of some solid proofs. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Grumpy	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #81 on: 2010-09-30, 17:23:34 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Well, I certainly did not discover the effect. I am no expert on it. A Nobel will not be given to me for noticing that the pieces fit or for proving it. Anyone working with this will have to do it for selfless reasons. If selfish, you will loose in the end. Induction of the collector is via an aetheric version of the Wilson Effect (H.A. Wilson). Moving aether is your dielectric and it can move linearly or rotate.

Room3327	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #82 on: 2010-09-30, 17:35:37 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 568	Maybe a unified project could be run something like a company, make it a company project. Choose a project manager for it, get some willing engineers, a couple techs etc. and divide up the work. The team is just not located in the same building, but with the internet that should be no problem. If the volunteers are dedicated there is no reason it won't work, but would obviously require volunteers. Keep it all open source so somewhere those not a part of the team can give input to it. I think we all got theories but everyone out there is waiting for US to build, test and prove them. Who wants to invest time, money and effort building someone else's idea or theory if it is not proven? I think that is why a lot of threads die. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

Grumpy	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #83 on: 2010-09-30, 17:39:47 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: Room3327 on 2010-09-30, 17:35:37 I think we all got theories but everyone out there is waiting for US to build, test and prove them. Who wants to invest time, money and effort building someone else's idea or theory if it is not proven? I think that is why a lot of threads die. How do you prove that you are moving or changing the aether itself? Any experiment that you perform will be criticized and rediculed to death. Who wants to deal with that? Not me. The theory fits. Take it or leave it.

Room3327	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #84 on: 2010-09-30, 17:42:19 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 568	We may not be able to prove the aether is moving but we can prove the device works that is all that is needed IMO. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

Grumpy	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #85 on: 2010-09-30, 17:54:42 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: Room3327 on 2010-09-30, 17:42:19 We may not be able to prove the aether is moving but we can prove the device works that is all that is needed IMO. Then all there is to do is build it and get it to work

Room3327	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #86 on: 2010-09-30, 18:04:28 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 568	I actually have been doing that Grumpy, I'm one of those people that does, and not just talk about it. I am partial to this idea as it fits my ideas very very well, I am just on a slightly different path then you and it only involves construction of the device. I am looking at rotating the aether in a slightly different way, using polyphase rotation like in AC motors with AC instead of DC pulses. But my design of the LSR is the same basic design as yours, I was wondering if you noticed that? --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

Grumpy	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #87 on: 2010-09-30, 21:02:04 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	If we build several of these devices, we will have a broader base to explore the effects associated with them. If you can do half of the build, start a thread looking for the other half. Let's see if we can get a few of these built for testing by the end of the year. If you can do it all, start with the experiments on single coils.

giantkiller	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #88 on: 2010-09-30, 21:06:49 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1593 Frequency equals matter...	Dynamic manipulation of a HV static field has been touted as holding promise. The HV coil parallel to LV pulsed coil is the only parameter I have seen that did something external to the coils themselves, it rocked household GFIs, emp-ed routers and cable boxes. Now I have switched configs to the HV coil inside a LV pulsed coil mechanically which puts a smaller dynamic field inside a static HV field. I will also alternate the HV with LV and try that. I bought the EC600 to better gauge the HV input voltage parameter and use lower current. Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-09-30, 17:54:42 Then all there is to do is build it and get it to work --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

ion	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #89 on: 2010-09-30, 21:08:03 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote Maybe a unified project could be run something like a company, make it a company project. Choose a project manager for it, get some willing engineers, a couple techs etc. and divide up the work. The team is just not located in the same building, but with the internet that should be no problem. If the volunteers are dedicated there is no reason it won't work, but would obviously require volunteers. Keep it all open source so somewhere those not a part of the team can give input to it. In my view there needs to be a guiding council that identifies the overall task as well as important sub-tasks that lead to the "goal". Each sub-task will be posted and a call for volunteers with specific talent in that area. The project leaders of each of the sub-tasks would assemble teams that concentrate their activity in certain areas of the project. e.g "Presently Seeking Project Leader for Video Restoration" Project Description: "Assemble and lead a team to perform forensic video enhancement of SM's FTPU video. Restore to highest possible quality videos pertaining to this unit, including stills etc., using the latest restoration and frame merging software." This is only one sub task, there are many that could each have a project team leader. Task specific project targeting gives everyone a chance to contribute to "the goal" according to their unique capability. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Room3327	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #90 on: 2010-09-30, 21:21:41 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 568	ION, Yes I agree it may be a very good way to move the ball forward without everyone being all over each other. There would be much less duplicated work and it would be a much straighter route to the finish line. There could be a board of directors (voted on by site members). This could be taken a long way and be the basis of a whole new way to operate a bussiness that doesn't have a goal of making money but a goal of freeing the world of oil or providing an energy source not currently used. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

ion	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #91 on: 2010-09-30, 21:32:35 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote ION, Yes I agree it may be a very good way to move the ball forward without everyone being all over each other. There would be much less duplicated work and it would be a much straighter route to the finish line. There could be a board of directors (voted on by site members). This could be taken a long way and be the basis of a whole new way to operate a bussiness that doesn't have a goal of making money but a goal of freeing the world of oil or providing an energy source not currently used. I didn't want to use the term "Board OF Directors" because it has so many negative associations in the real world. I chose "Council" as I thought it had a more "benign" ring to it. I also fear this concept would be difficult to establish in an existing forum, but might work as a fresh start in some other medium. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Room3327	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #92 on: 2010-09-30, 21:44:46 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 568	ION Yes more questions then answers right now but that is how all new things evolve. You can make up all new names for positions if you want, but many of the familiar company jobs will still be needed whatever they are called. Bussinesses have evolved to where they are for reasons that work, it's just that all bussinesses are in bussiness to make money, products or services really don't matter. We are talking a bussiness that is geared to making a product as opposed to money. Open source, volunteer, world wide I believe enough people could be picked up to do it. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

LtBolo	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #93 on: 2010-10-09, 05:51:40 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Room3327 on 2010-09-30, 21:44:46 ...it's just that all bussinesses are in bussiness to make money, products or services really don't matter. Ouch. Having been in business now for 18 years, I can empirically state that is false. Many small business owners do what they do for the love of it, myself included. I could make similar assertions about people that work for businesses...they just do so for the money, what they do and who they serve don't really matter...but I know that is false as well. Sorry, sore subject. The culture of class envy that has manifested as a distrust of anyone in business is really quite destructive. Most folks in business are just like the people that work for them...except for a couple of key differences. I work about 70 hours a week and I'm the one awake at night worrying about how I am going to keep the 22 people that work for me employed during this depression. They make less money than I do, but they work about half as many hours and go home blissfully stress-free. <Rant mode OFF>

Room3327	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #94 on: 2010-10-09, 17:59:49 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 568	Quote from: LtBolo on 2010-10-09, 05:51:40 Ouch. Having been in business now for 18 years, I can empirically state that is false. Many small business owners do what they do for the love of it, myself included. I could make similar assertions about people that work for businesses...they just do so for the money, what they do and who they serve don't really matter...but I know that is false as well. Sorry, sore subject. The culture of class envy that has manifested as a distrust of anyone in business is really quite destructive. Most folks in business are just like the people that work for them...except for a couple of key differences. I work about 70 hours a week and I'm the one awake at night worrying about how I am going to keep the 22 people that work for me employed during this depression. They make less money than I do, but they work about half as many hours and go home blissfully stress-free. <Rant mode OFF> LtBolo, Please do not take offense to my words, I too am a small bussiness owner for the past 22 years and I hear everything you are saying. I could have said what I did in a better manner, I mean no offense when I say bussinesses are in bussiness to make money but they are. No money no bussiness no money lots of stress no money no employees, without the money you can not have a bussiness, first and foremost businesses are in bussiness to make money. Yes many of us are proud of the products and services we provide I can attest to that. In this case I am merely saying this could work like a bussiness but without the need for the bussiness to make money. No employees to pay no overhead no insurance costs, just a dedicated group working together like a bussiness for a common goal but maybe thats asking to much as the great size of the ego's in this field may make it a disaster. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

LtBolo	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #95 on: 2010-10-09, 18:47:28 »
Group: Guest	But why do we work at all? For money? Everyone that works a job is in business at some level. My beef...especially with folks on free energy forums...is that there is a very strong bias that paints business owners in the worst possible light. It is sheer hypocrisy when people rail against businesses for making money, while half of the ones doing so would change jobs for 50 cents more an hour. Sorry for my knee jerk. You certainly weren't doing so, and I really didn't take it that way, but I have been hatefully attacked on a half a dozen different occasions for stating my business interest in free energy. This stuff really won't happen in somebody's basement, not beyond prototype form. It will take the financial, design, and manufacturing resources of businesses (hopefully small ones...the good guys ) to get products to the world that needs them. So, what's it gonna take to build this beastie?

Room3327	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #96 on: 2010-10-09, 19:07:07 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 568	LtBolo, Agreed! It is not poor people that create jobs, when was the last time a skid row bum offered you a job? Poor people can't build factory's it takes money to do so. No company's no bussinesses, no jobs. But we in the West all have the same opprotunity to work and create something for ourselves, please don't get me ranting! I love people that have the moxie to start and run their own bussinesses as many in my own family have. I am not attacking you in any manner, infact I applaud you for the moxie to take a bussiness into the free energy arena, all we need now is free energy. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

Room3327	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #97 on: 2010-10-09, 19:47:05 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 568	Quote from: LtBolo on 2010-10-09, 18:47:28 So, what's it gonna take to build this beastie? This is what we have been discussing in this thread possibly doing it as a volunteer nonprofit, open source, on line business. All the details of construction have been presented already, some of the unknowns are voltages, frequencies, and pulsed DC vs AC. Basic operation is a static magnetic field, with an imposed rotating field that entrains the aether into an aether vortex, hopefully causing electrons to flow in the collector wires. I hope I have this right. Grumpy can certainly tell you more. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

giantkiller	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #98 on: 2010-10-10, 04:00:32 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1593 Frequency equals matter...	I was offered a 20millionUSD piece of property for this purpose, free of charge as a Menlo park type clone. I have been doing business with these guys for 30 years and they know my disclosure. They both agreed that, based on the parts I just bought, that the project is way beyond a suburban bedroom bench. They are willing to open the building and watch what goes on. My plan is take the GK4 as a model and alot of site links to them to show good faith. I mentioned Tesla and their eyes lit up! I will introduce them to the rest of the team. The primary of Keely, Shaumberg, Tesla, Rife, Dotto, Dollard, Steven Mark. I explained the Kunel process in a linear form and they understood. The 2 gentlemen I mentioned want 'REAL' change not just political change. The city of Denver. Just like in Battlefield Earth. I will see where this goes. --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

Grumpy	Re: Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure « Reply #99 on: 2010-10-10, 15:56:41 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	We all have aspirations... ------------------------ Aether Vortex Energy Converter (AVEC Device): Full Disclosure arc reactor I2.jpg (10.73 kB, 480x360 - viewed 1436 times.)

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