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img  BEP
Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #150 on: 2011-04-29, 02:39:01 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2011-04-28, 20:45:20
Any thoughts on "why" the presence of unmagneized ferromagnetic material negates the compressed pulse?

Such material means massive quantities of magnetic domains polarized in random directions. A rotating electric field will loose energy when ferromagnetic material is too close. Some of that energy is lost as heat in the nearby metal (yes, this means it is minutely non-conservative).
The magnetic field of the moving charge has no large effect until those magnetic domains begin to agree upon a general direction(mass alignment begins).
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #151 on: 2011-04-29, 19:11:18 »

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@Grumpy, and all,
Jason and I have both experienced the 'Extra' return with the dual pulse protocol on the bilfilar, speaker cord on an air core toilet roll coil. All it is 'is' the timing with pulse width. My suspicion is the straight tube is just a test platform and that a ring is necessary. @G, you stated put in a ring also.
And that would stipulate a circumference control of the frequency to get the previously created 'Extra' pulse to travel the ring and then additively collide with the newly generated 'Extra' pulse magnetically by jumping the gap of the coil start with the coil end. This gap also acts like a buffer and virtual diode due to the precession direction of the applied signal. The gaps are apparent in the open tpus and the SM17. This action also aligns with Don Smith's charging the source where an ac signal is sent back to the battery on the DC line using the external magnetic field.

If the applied energy is not enough to saturate the iron then the iron becomes a flux sink. Magnacoaster got around this by biasing the ferrous core with an added magnet. Then the field can be jacked in air easier and at different frequencies. The core matter controls the frequency due it a permiability and nuclear magnetic resonance.

At a speed slower than the circumference you also have a magnetic bias to work with. Coordinated with the circumferal pulse the whole ring would excite with the 'Extra' pulse. Sounds like the process to enable the thumping.
« Last Edit: 2011-04-29, 21:11:55 by giantkiller »


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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #152 on: 2011-04-30, 07:17:18 »
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I'll tell you guys why I don't get excited anymore about all the pulsing coils research that so many of you have done and are doing as a way to achieve a functional TPU, and I don't mean to belittle the experiments or the efforts, I'm sure they provide and have provided useful insight into electrodynamics,  but when you inject power into the coil you are now in the Joule Thief territory, a territory  where you have to measure power in and out and do computations trying to prove whether the device is OU or not, and measuring error comes into play and in the end, at least from what I have seen,  Pout = Pin just about.    So, I'm not excited by this anymore even though it's a lot of fun to get 555 timers going, or micro-controllers programed etc..   To me the only worth while thing to do is develop a high Q receiver of energy I KNOW it's there.   I'm fully convinced that SM is tapping into AC magnetic fields and I want to know the mechanism that is used by SM in his TPUs, and the best lead that I had is that the magnetostriction phenomena is at play and facilitates magneto-acoustic resonance in the iron wire, or perhaps the toroid inductors we see in the center of the TPU's.    The DC phenomena I understand as occurring due to saturation propagating along the iron wires or alternating in the toroid cores.

But now,   if those rings in the OTPU are made of plastic I'm forced to rethink my whole approach.  I'm wandering what are the key elements in these TPUs?  I just want to be sure of only one thing, is that too much to ask?   Somebody just tell me, is it the center toroid,  perhaps the toroidal winding, or maybe it's the iron wire being "squeezed like a hose".    This stuff is getting way to frustrating for me.   I'm the type that wants to understand something before I build it,  and I'm afraid this is not the right endeavor for me.   

Take a look at the FTPU picture.   This one has two large loops, and a center toroid transformer as the prominent features  (never mind the fact that I see a capacitor in there etc..)    The two loops  seem to have poloidal windings on them  (to use WW's terminology)  so  this characteristic seems to not be present in the OTPU if the rings are plastic.    Do you see what I mean,  these inconsistencies are driving me crazy.   

I want absolute proof the rings are made of plastic or as far as I'm concerned this whole TPU could be made of bubble gum.


EM
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #153 on: 2011-04-30, 15:55:08 »

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Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-04-30, 07:17:18
I'll tell you guys why I don't get excited anymore about all the pulsing coils research that so many of you have done and are doing as a way to achieve a functional TPU, and I don't mean to belittle the experiments or the efforts, I'm sure they provide and have provided useful insight into electrodynamics,  but when you inject power into the coil you are now in the Joule Thief territory, a territory  where you have to measure power in and out and do computations trying to prove whether the device is OU or not, and measuring error comes into play and in the end, at least from what I have seen,  Pout = Pin just about.    So, I'm not excited by this anymore even though it's a lot of fun to get 555 timers going, or micro-controllers programed etc..   To me the only worth while thing to do is develop a high Q receiver of energy I KNOW it's there.   I'm fully convinced that SM is tapping into AC magnetic fields and I want to know the mechanism that is used by SM in his TPUs, and the best lead that I had is that the magnetostriction phenomena is at play and facilitates magneto-acoustic resonance in the iron wire, or perhaps the toroid inductors we see in the center of the TPU's.    The DC phenomena I understand as occurring due to saturation propagating along the iron wires or alternating in the toroid cores.

But now,   if those rings in the OTPU are made of plastic I'm forced to rethink my whole approach.  I'm wandering what are the key elements in these TPUs?  I just want to be sure of only one thing, is that too much to ask?   Somebody just tell me, is it the center toroid,  perhaps the toroidal winding, or maybe it's the iron wire being "squeezed like a hose".    This stuff is getting way to frustrating for me.   I'm the type that wants to understand something before I build it,  and I'm afraid this is not the right endeavor for me.   

Take a look at the FTPU picture.   This one has two large loops, and a center toroid transformer as the prominent features  (never mind the fact that I see a capacitor in there etc..)    The two loops  seem to have poloidal windings on them  (to use WW's terminology)  so  this characteristic seems to not be present in the OTPU if the rings are plastic.    Do you see what I mean,  these inconsistencies are driving me crazy.   

I want absolute proof the rings are made of plastic or as far as I'm concerned this whole TPU could be made of bubble gum.
EM

Making an electric field interact with a magnetic field is not "joule thief" territory.   It is Wilson Effect territory and has nothing to do with the joule thief circuits.   It deals with using  an electric field to increase the flux density of a magnetic field.

SM stated early on that the TPU has no "core", that the devices created the energy within themselves, and that they were not "receivers".

Squeezing the hose is altering the permeability around/along the collector as if you are moving a magnet.  It is another form of induction and it is known in physics since relativity, but it is under-explored.  You create the compressed pulse and move it through a magnetic field, the magnetic field is magnified, and induction occurs.  If you apply a static field, then you do not get an inductive effect, just the higher flux density, as Nipher discovered.  I suspect permittivity is also increased.   All very interesting.

One large inconsistency is that in the early TPU's the magnification appears to be utilized in the bifilar wires, and not in a a separate collector.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #154 on: 2011-04-30, 16:41:59 »
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http://www.energeticforum.com/showthread.php?p=138912#post138912 reply 122

I believe that contains the full secret of the Steven Mark TPU.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #155 on: 2011-04-30, 18:31:59 »
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One large inconsistency is that in the early TPU's the magnification appears to be utilized in the bifilar wires, and not in a a separate collector.


This is why it's so frustrating, the "key phenomenon " must be common to all TPUs.

EM
« Last Edit: 2011-04-30, 22:01:58 by EMdevices »
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #156 on: 2011-04-30, 20:33:15 »
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EM,

This is one thing I find common in all TPUs (at least it seems likely in all of them).

If a signal is applied to A-B, what comes out of C-D? Reverse the idea. Then bend that circuit into a circle.

Yes, I'm sure the 'controls' are only controls and not a power source. How else can you avoid the generation of harmonics unless the process doesn't use switching devices except to throttle the operation.

The only time there can be no harmonics is when there is no switching device. Forget filters and rectifiers. I'm certain neither is required.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #157 on: 2011-04-30, 20:55:01 »

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Quote from: Grumpy on 2011-04-30, 15:55:08
It is Wilson Effect territory and has nothing to do with the joule thief circuits.   It deals with using  an electric field to increase the flux density of a magnetic field.

Don't we already doing that?  ???

Quote
SM stated early on that the TPU has no "core", that the devices created the energy within themselves, and that they were not "receivers".

If what SM wrote in the emails was true, these are receivers, as he stated very clearly they working like a radios!


Quote
Squeezing the hose is altering the permeability around/along the collector as if you are moving a magnet.  It is another form of induction and it is known in physics since relativity, but it is under-explored.  You create the compressed pulse and move it through a magnetic field, the magnetic field is magnified, and induction occurs.

Another form of induction?  :o Where? I trying to understand what may you think, but still don't get it, where do you think the gain would come in these situations?

The thing about the power conversion, there are no free runs. If you want to convert one form of energy to an other one, you have to introduce resistant! If there is resistant, there are losses, so you can't have gain.

To have free power, you need free motion. The truth is, the challenge is very simple. You have a mass which is in rest in your reference frame, and until it will not move, there is no free energy. So if you think about that simple example, tell me how would it be possible to that mass to gain speed in your reference frame, without any added momentum from the outside. If may we think, we could get free motion from the atom itself, it would come from the outside, hence the atom constantly absorbing and radiating waves.  I could be wrong, but I think there is NO OTHER WAY to have free energy devices, just building receivers,which are tuned to some "free motion source".






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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #158 on: 2011-04-30, 21:19:54 »

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I have a theory, when he talks about valve amps and driving the TPU coil's, he speaks about a new channel opening up, this would also be matched back to the primary of the output transformer, this explains why his output transformer is good for 245kHz, he doesn't mention the valve stages being good for 245kHz, so the new channel is reflected back to the primary of the driving transformer and extracted from each driving channel, this is why the collector and control can be in series because what ever is happening in the coil chain gets directly matched back to the primary of the transformer.
The transformer is a voltage to current converter while driving, we already know he talks about a large current kick, going in reverse the transformer becomes a current to voltage converter, to stop the primary stage running with gain he would need to divert voltage and power away from the primary drive circuit supply rail.

This is only with regard to the valve stage, he has to be doing things differently with all the models we see, as there are no valves or large output transformers in sight. In the models we see, there should be something obvious that can convert current to voltage and also the thick current carrying wire that feeds the converter
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #159 on: 2011-05-01, 02:39:17 »
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@ EmDevices said:    Do you see what I mean,  these inconsistencies are driving me crazy.
                                 I want absolute proof the rings are made of plastic or as far as I'm concerned this whole TPU could be made of bubble gum.

=================================================================================================

The FTPU Coils were wound on the outside of a PLASTIC form.


.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #160 on: 2011-05-01, 02:50:15 »
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Upside Down View.

.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #161 on: 2011-05-01, 02:53:21 »
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Side view.

 
.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #162 on: 2011-05-01, 03:07:03 »

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Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-04-30, 18:31:59

This is why it's so frustrating, the "key phenomenon " must be common to all TPUs.

EM

The "key" is common, but the application of it varies.  Look at all of the TPU's and compare to both Spherics devices.  They all use the same "key" process, but in different ways.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #163 on: 2011-05-01, 03:14:59 »
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My WILD THEORY is:

1.  The center Toroid is a 2 Winding Ferrite TRANSFORMER with 32 turns of copper magnet wire on each side (T1 & T2).

2.  The Transformer is used as an Isolation Device between the 5 Khz Osc & the TPU Coils.

3.  The two Black T1 Wires (on the left) go to the 4 TPU Control Coil Quadrants, which are in series.

4.  The two T2 White Wires (on the right) go to the Circuit Board 5 Khz Oscillator.
.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #164 on: 2011-05-01, 03:25:32 »

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Quote from: Chef on 2011-04-30, 20:55:01
Quote from: Grumpy
It is Wilson Effect territory and has nothing to do with the joule thief circuits.   It deals with using  an electric field to increase the flux density of a magnetic field.

Don't we already doing that?  ???

No.  We typically increase a magnetic field with another magnetic field produce by conduction current.  This method, which Francis Nipher experimented with, increases the magnetic field by application of an electric potential.
 
Quote from: Chef on 2011-04-30, 20:55:01
Quote from: Grumpy
SM stated early on that the TPU has no "core", that the devices created the energy within themselves, and that they were not "receivers".

If what SM wrote in the emails was true, these are receivers, as he stated very clearly they working like a radios!

He used "radio" as an "analogy" to try and explain the aspect of tuning the device.

Quote from: Chef on 2011-04-30, 20:55:01
Quote from: Grumpy
Squeezing the hose is altering the permeability around/along the collector as if you are moving a magnet.  It is another form of induction and it is known in physics since relativity, but it is under-explored.  You create the compressed pulse and move it through a magnetic field, the magnetic field is magnified, and induction occurs.

Another form of induction?  :o Where? I trying to understand what may you think, but still don't get it, where do you think the gain would come in these situations?

The thing about the power conversion, there are no free runs. If you want to convert one form of energy to an other one, you have to introduce resistant! If there is resistant, there are losses, so you can't have gain.

To have free power, you need free motion. The truth is, the challenge is very simple. You have a mass which is in rest in your reference frame, and until it will not move, there is no free energy. So if you think about that simple example, tell me how would it be possible to that mass to gain speed in your reference frame, without any added momentum from the outside. If may we think, we could get free motion from the atom itself, it would come from the outside, hence the atom constantly absorbing and radiating waves.  I could be wrong, but I think there is NO OTHER WAY to have free energy devices, just building receivers,which are tuned to some "free motion source".

Yes.  A different form of induction where a dielectric or other entity of permittivity greater than 1, is rotated in a magnetic field and current is induced.  This was first proven by H. A. Wilson.  (predicted by Relativity as I recall.)  Here, we polarize the vacuum, and pulse it sequentially to emulate a rotating dielectric.

All energy that we use is converted from "potential" energy into kinetic energy.  This process is no different.

Back-torque in a typical homopolar generator results from the load taking the momentum from the disc.  I can spin my vacuum dielectric disc at 70,000 rpm.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #165 on: 2011-05-01, 03:55:23 »

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Grumpy

We have different views for sure.

Quote
Here, we polarize the vacuum, and pulse it sequentially to emulate a rotating dielectric.

Does that make sense to everybody, except me? Hands up, who understand what he mean!  :)

Quote
Back-torque in a typical homopolar generator results from the load taking the momentum from the disc.  I can spin my vacuum dielectric disc at 70,000 rpm.

Well, to convert, you need resistant, that's why I don't get it, what is strange about a rotating dielectric disc in a vacuum container for example,when the rotation was added by you, and if you want it back, you still experience some losses, and can't get back what you put in, not talking about more.



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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #166 on: 2011-05-01, 05:17:28 »
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You can't see it but my hand is up  :)

Conversion doesn't require resistance it requires cancellation. Resistance is just a form of cancellation.

Why is changing flux density directly over a changing magnetic field so hard to understand? This is what happens, in the view of the conductor.

It all boils down to the definition of induction, magnetic fields and charge. If you believe making charge move in a wire is due to a changing magnetic field then I can see where you can't make the connection. If you can visualize a magnetic field as being more than just magnetism then there may be some hope.

We are back to definitions, I'm afraid.
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #167 on: 2011-05-01, 05:26:01 »
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@allphase,  

thanks for the pictures,   I agree that the FTPU is supported by a plastic spool,  that's not what concerns me.   I'm really confused about having spiral windings on a plastic ring like in the OTPU.   Why do it?    I thought the principle expounded by SM  was that there are control and collector windings, a "squeezing the hose" type of action. So the OTPU does not seem to have collector windings, just plastic rings.   The reason that this is concerning to me now is because I'm starting to realize that ION is right,  those rings most likely are plastic as we saw in the pictures,  why would you build a speaker grill with metal rings?  it's just more expensive!   So if they are not metallic,  then my theory of acoustic standing waves inside the ring no longer holds (this was my high Q resonator principle).   Now it appears that what Spherics was saying might be applicable here,  i.e.  bifillar coils, and iron delay coils somewhere in the circuit, and perhaps some spacial vortex that develops.

But,  the other TPU's do certainly seem to have collector windings wrapped with spiral  control windings.  examples  FTPU,  LTPU

So was Spherics right?   Was he there in the beginning when Steven discovered the "phenomenon"?    I thought only Steven knew the secret and never told anybody not even his closest friends.


EM
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #168 on: 2011-05-01, 05:31:40 »

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@Chef,
I too do not use those terms.

But when I see instructions that I can follow and add to I jump on it.
My latest is Magnacoaster with HV and Aiding the flux.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7cPDhD0yDg[/youtube]

Marco once said that it is easier to aid the flux than to kill it. My suspicion is when SM said 'cancel the flux' it was a snippet of 'cancel the previous state of the flux by aiding it'. With two rings this would create 2 transformers in close proximity that could be made to resonate with each other each 180 out of phase. This would create a magnetic flip flop. With a sense coil reading this motion then he could drive the circuit. The Kunel patent also complies with the statement of 'cancel the flux' and 'squeeze the hose'. My current setup can be manipulated to do both aiding and canceling.

And if it seems like I am making shit up to stay in the conversation then let me know and I'll excuse myself. I suffer from fustration too. I see the same or close processes in all the devices and talks.
« Last Edit: 2011-05-01, 06:06:25 by giantkiller »


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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #169 on: 2011-05-01, 07:03:37 »

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It works.

The rest is up to you.

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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #170 on: 2011-05-01, 13:12:36 »

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Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-05-01, 05:17:28
You can't see it but my hand is up  :)

Conversion doesn't require resistance it requires cancellation. Resistance is just a form of cancellation.

Why is changing flux density directly over a changing magnetic field so hard to understand? This is what happens, in the view of the conductor.

It all boils down to the definition of induction, magnetic fields and charge. If you believe making charge move in a wire is due to a changing magnetic field then I can see where you can't make the connection. If you can visualize a magnetic field as being more than just magnetism then there may be some hope.

We are back to definitions, I'm afraid.



Well, I must be that stupid. However I think I have a good understanding on why charge moving in the wire, and how could be that movement diminish from different view points, I still don't understand why polarize the vacuum and pulse it sequentially to emulate a rotating dielectric, lead to free energy. It must be me, who can't have enough imagination to figure it out from one well explained sentence.

It look like as he state, it's an already proved working mechanism, and You and Him know that very well, built devices based on these principle, but sadly Grumpy and You can't tell more about that, we have to figure it out by ourself.

Well, and Grumpy have to add: It works!

Ohhh my, I see where it going again......





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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #171 on: 2011-05-01, 14:15:32 »
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-04-30, 18:31:59

This is why it's so frustrating, the "key phenomenon " must be common to all TPUs.

EM

The open TPU uses zipcord terminated at one end.This is clearly seen from the video clips. Possibly there are four of these or maybe just one continuous length.

In my opinion, the other TPU's must have a variation of this zipcord terminated at one end. (We do see this in the SM17 See reply #6 in this thread http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=360.0 )The zipcord is clearly seen in this video capture of the SM17.

This is the key in my opinion, and can be applied to all the other TPU's. This is the bifilar kick coil. But what is the kick?

Consider that the dielectric between the (zip cord) wires must decrease capacitance slightly due to the repulsion effect between the wires. This is a parametric pumping of the capacitance.

Consider also that the repulsion causes a slight opening and closing of the distance between the wires. How this interacts with ambient or artificial external magnetic fields is to be determined by experiment. Is this a magnetic gating effect?

So in my opinion, the OTPU is the key to all the others. As Spheric said "The longer the length of copper the better but using identical lengths."

The bifilar zip cord is just a lot longer in the larger TPU's.

I believe the saturable inductors are used to create high peak currents of short duration from a small oscillator in order to create the required repulsion effect between the zipcord wire pairs.

The OTPU was wound on discarded plastic spacers from speaker grille assemblies. The FTPU was wound on the rim of a plastic wire spool. The evidence overwhelmingly supports this, no need to go down that rabbit hole looking for exotic core materials. There was no core. All of the TPU's were very light in weight for their size.

The only devices with cores were the saturable reactors.


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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #172 on: 2011-05-01, 14:37:06 »
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Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-04-30, 20:33:15
EM,

This is one thing I find common in all TPUs (at least it seems likely in all of them).

If a signal is applied to A-B, what comes out of C-D? Reverse the idea. Then bend that circuit into a circle.

Yes, I'm sure the 'controls' are only controls and not a power source. How else can you avoid the generation of harmonics unless the process doesn't use switching devices except to throttle the operation.

The only time there can be no harmonics is when there is no switching device. Forget filters and rectifiers. I'm certain neither is required.



I'm sure you are on to the right idea here. Perhaps a long length of zipcord wound horizontally in solenoid manner around a form, with a toroidal overwinding as a control for the magnetic alignment. Or reverse this winding method.


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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #173 on: 2011-05-01, 16:09:05 »

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Here's a quote i made when i looked into using Saturable Inductors to narrow the pulse width.

Quote
So i can use decreasing inductance along the chain with the same capacitance and achieve 100% energy transfer with a decreasing pulse width but the peak voltage will remain the same on the output pulse.

The other way is to have the same inductance but decreasing capacitance, this will give me increasing peak voltages and the decreasing of the pulse width with an efficiency of 3.6% in the example provided.

So it's very unlikely an OU device would use a SI chain to increase peak current and shorten the pulse as93.4% of the drive energy would be wasted in the process.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=565.msg8866#msg8866
   
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Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #174 on: 2011-05-01, 16:43:03 »
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Quote from: Peterae on 2011-05-01, 16:09:05
Here's a quote i made when i looked into using Saturable Inductors to narrow the pulse width.

So it's very unlikely an OU device would use a SI chain to increase peak current and shorten the pulse as93.4% of the drive energy would be wasted in the process.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=565.msg8866#msg8866

There are many other ways  to use the saturable qualities of an inductor to create high currents in a resonant circuit. This is what I am talking about.

 Not talking about using an SI chain for pulse sharpening. That would be the wrong approach and inefficient as you stated.

Be careful what you rule out and what you include. Spherics was attempting to familiarize people with saturable inductors. The paper he referenced was not to be applied literally. There is another way.


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