PopularFX
Home Help Search Login Register
Welcome,Guest. Please login or register.
2024-11-26, 22:33:59
News: Forum TIP:
The SHOUT BOX deletes messages after 3 hours. It is NOT meant to have lengthy conversations in. Use the Chat feature instead.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
Author Topic: Carbon Arc Gas plus Heat output  (Read 26557 times)
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2735
@tinman
Quote
Not so much when it's raining,but more so when it's cold.
When it's a cold brisk morning,the air is much denser,and this becomes a form of intercooler for the engine.

I would agree and as an Engineer I have one number burned into my mind that I will never forget ... 2257. 2257 KJ/Kg is the latent heat of water and while rain/water may flash into steam within the combustion chamber aiding combustion it also carries latent heat out of the engine which is wasted. It is wasted because when the steam in the exhaust condenses in the atmosphere it liberates exactly 2257 KJ/Kg which was given to it within the combustion chamber.

Cold air aides in the expansion ratio which relates directly to Carnot efficiency or simply put Delta T. The change in temperature is the change in pressure which causes a force to act on a piston over a distance which is work. The amount of force which acts over a distance in any given period of time is power.

What is not easy to grasp is that adding water reduces carbon build up which reduces turbulence which aides combustion. Water acts as a moderator controlling the burn rate as any water flashing to steam must absorb exactly 2257 KJ/Kg allowing for more energy dense or volatile fuels. On the far end of the volatility spectrum one could conceivably burn Nitroglycerin. If an extremely small amount was perfectly vaporized and all the water vapor absorbed all of the energy and flashed to steam then there is no explosion there is only absorption followed by a pressure wave causing expansion and work.

I understand it is a bogus proposition so far as safety is concerned however that does not mean it cannot work. The real problem is stabilizing a supposedly explosive substance so that it is only explosive under strict conditions. Diesel fuel burns slow and it's awesome to start my fire pit, in a combustion chamber under pressure it burns faster and under an extreme pressure rise it is in fact explosive. That it what pre-detonation is... a pressure wave acting outwards compressing unburned gas near rings which causes it to detonate in turn causing an extreme pressure build up. Why?... because now we have two pressure waves which collide with one another causing excessive pressure.

Could we utilize this multi-wave like phenomena... well of course we can it's just a matter of working through the problem.
« Last Edit: 2017-07-21, 17:16:42 by Allcanadian »


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 702
On the surface of it there is no obvious reason why one rod should be consumed faster than the other and that in itself is interesting hence I suggest center tapped transformer to see if that equalizes things .
I am reminded oddly of balancing a  Leedskalnin  PM holder by tapping windings on one side to find a neutral (non holding state) in order to satisfy myself that the relationship was pi/2. anyway now your up and running I dare say there's lots of other things you want to try, enjoy,
   


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
On the surface of it there is no obvious reason why one rod should be consumed faster than the other and that in itself is interesting hence I suggest center tapped transformer to see if that equalizes things .
I am reminded oddly of balancing a  Leedskalnin  PM holder by tapping windings on one side to find a neutral (non holding state) in order to satisfy myself that the relationship was pi/2. anyway now your up and running I dare say there's lots of other things you want to try, enjoy,
 

Duncan

I am not sure why a center tapped transformer would be any different,as it would still send an alternating current to the reactors rods.

The only difference between the two rod's is as stated before--the one that is earthed to the steel body of the reactor,is the one that is consumed 4 times as fast--?>after pulling out the rod's and measuring them,it is being consumed closer to 6 times faster ??? .It has to be something to do with sharing the same polarity as the steel body of the reactor,as swapping the rod's over resulted once again in the one earthed to the body being consumed at a much higher rate than the isolated one.

Anyway,that issue is about to be sorted,as i bought a piece of high temp clear pollycarb tube today,which measures 125mm in diameter,and 200mm long. This will eliminate any ground sharing problem. O0

Well a quick coffee and chat with the wife,and im off to start on V2.


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 702
understood Brad , I  look forward to V2 !


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
Group: Ambassador
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4045
I would also have a look at including some environmental measuring tools during
the run ?

were your last [few years back] experiments truly effecting the electrostatic field ?


Cadman posted this in Smokey's thread here http://overunity.com/17100/sm0ky2s-modified-voss-machine/msg508450/#new
Quote
Hi Vladokv,

Here are some good tools to replicate.

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/hvmeasurements/

And a video of some of these in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r3h7IC8LWY

Regards

Cadman
end quote

IMO since there is a strong opinion on electrostatics in other claims of late ["Tariel"??]

anybody experimenting on any ambient harvesting methods should have a measuring device for Electrostatic field strength running just in case ?

there is no better way to get where your going than to know where you've been...

just one mans opinion.





   

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
I was doing a bit of reading on this subject last night while looking through patents, there were quiet a few, one said you get increased gas produced when running at increased pressure and also by using a spherical polished vessel the light energy gets reflected to the centre focal point which is the arc position also increasing efficiency by not wasting the energy in lost light, the reaction itself is actually endothermic meaning energy is lost to keeping the arc hot as the formation of the gas has a cooling effect, so insulation should also increase efficiency.

One other thing worth noting is that it is possible to use a copper alloy catalyst to convert COH2 into Methanol, that would be pretty cool to get a storable liquid out, we have a methanol fire in the front room, it looks like a large spirit burner that was used to heat model steam engines, methanol is not that cheap to buy over here, about £3 a litre, but the fire is great and very clean to burn with no fumes
   

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
Single Step Oxidation of Methane to Methanol–Towards Better Understanding

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705813000581

"The potential use of methanol as a fuel is well known. Many research scientists are working on single stage production of methanol. Currently it is being produced by a conventional two-step process which is expensive and energy intensive. Conversion of methane to a liquid fuel is a more desirable alternative to compressed natural gas due to ease of storage. The two-step process produces liquid methanol by the steam reforming of methane to synthesis gas followed by the high pressure catalytic conversion of the synthesis gas to methanol."

Direct Methane to Methanol

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780444632531

"This book provides all those who work in the field of gas processing and gas chemistry with the theory and experimental data to develop and apply new processes based on direct oxidation of natural gas."

Solar energy produces methane from CO2 with new catalyst

https://www.solardirectory.com.au/news/1358-solar-energy-methane-co2

"Australian scientists now have a catalyst that converts carbon dioxide into methane gas using solar energy.

The University of Adelaide, in collaboration with the CSIRO, developed the process, which could potentially replace fossil fuels.

It could also lead to lower CO2 emissions from existing carbon-based fuel technologies.

The new catalyst drives the process of combining CO2 with hydrogen to produce methane and water."

and the process itself:

http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2017/TA/C7TA00958E#!divAbstract

"The conversion of CO2 into chemicals of commercial interest is a rapidly expanding area of research. Here, we present a highly active and stable CO2 methanation catalyst that is derived from a Ru-impregnated zirconium-based metal–organic framework (MOF) material. The Ru-doped MOF is transformed, under reaction conditions, into an active catalyst which yields CO2 conversions of 96% and a CH4 selectivity of 99%. We demonstrate that the final catalyst was composed of a mixture of Ru-nanoparticles supported on monoclinic and tetragonal ZrO2 nanoparticles. Notably, such catalytic activity has only been achieved using the MOF templating strategy. Catalysts of the same composition were synthesized via different methods but were less active for CO2 methanation."


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

Group: Renaissance Man
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2765


Buy me a cigar
By heck, they get warm !!   :D

Not wishing to be outdone...... Ordered these today....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-Copper-Coated-Carbon-Air-Arc-Gouging-Rods-8mm-x-300mm-6/272722187699?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648

I have a few ideas of my own to try.   ;)

Cheers Graham.




---------------------------
Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
By heck, they get warm !!   :D

Not wishing to be outdone...... Ordered these today....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-Copper-Coated-Carbon-Air-Arc-Gouging-Rods-8mm-x-300mm-6/272722187699?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648

I have a few ideas of my own to try.   ;)

Cheers Graham.

There the ones Grum--cheap as chips O0

I bet that little bench top motor you had running some time back on HHO,would run straight from the gas output of the carbon arc reactor.

I noticed that the copper coating on the gouging rods is rather rough(not smooth),and so may present a little sealing problem. It looks like some 240 wet and dry sandpaper soon smooths out the copper coating,so maybe not so bad.

I should have V2 up and running today,and then to work out some form of self feeding of the rods.


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Just a quick update pic on the V2 build.

The reaction chamber is done,so now just need to install the rod's and rails for them to run on.

Also will be installing an external water tank,so as to increase the volume of water for the system.

Extra outlets will also be installed,so as to pump the water through a radiator when the time come's.

P.S- volume of reactor is 2.6 L


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Second update on the reactor so far.

Now have the rod guides in,and contact brushes fitted.
Also fitted the two access ports(front side).

Just have to fit the high current relay,and do the wiring,and then give her a test run  O0


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
I bet that little bench top motor you had running some time back on HHO,would run straight from the gas output of the carbon arc reactor.

That's what I am betting on too.. liquid is nice for storage, increased power and energy density, but you cannot beat the simplicity of fuel gas to immediate work done in an ICE.

Over the long term any corrosion issues in the engine caused by the particular gas evolved can be observed and prevented, just an engineering problem.. by golly I wish we had an 'Engineer' around here!


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Ok,so here is the first run of the PlazArc reactor V2

So now we know that the gas go's bang quite good under pressure lol--twice in fact. Due to me not keeping an eye on the water level,the super heated plasma ignited the gas in the reactors chamber.

Just having a bite to eat,and back out to the work shop to finish the mod's-->to stop further explosions  O0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ycGMglPdgU


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
Really short on time here, and not had a chance to watch the entire video but the ignition incident at 04:16 is really interesting.

Just before the gas in the chamber ignites and blows the tube out of the receiving water tank you can see the water level in the bottle rising, while it lowers to expose the carbon electrodes to the gas in the reactor. At this point if you were to follow the hhop gen 2 hybrid design you can release the gas pressure in the reactor and the two water levels will equalise. The gas can then be burnt off external to the system and the cycle can repeat again. It is important to note that all my hhop system cycles were started from a system fully bled condition so that there was no air and therefore no oxygen present, other than that produced by the hho reaction, in your carbon gas system I would say this is an even more important consideration.

Good stuff Brad, I am really impressed with your rapid progress and noted how you did not seal the system to atmospheric pressure while testing.. very good safety advice in a well done demonstration. I will try and catch up with the rest of your progress later.

 O0


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
A screen shot from the next video,that i am just splicing together now.

Man this setup makes some gas.

Enough to run a small engine for sure Grum  O0


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Here is the second run--and theres smoke lol.

Anyway,this time we light up the gas.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeLTvd7m4W8


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2982


Buy me a beer
Hydrogen sulphide (bad egg smell), I wonder what those rods contain apart from carbon and copper!

Great video as always

Regards

Mike from a warm France 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
Group: Ambassador
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4045
Brad
Grum is once again knee deep in a Car repair [family member stuck on the road]

such is the life of the good hearted "fixer"..
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Bag of Gas just floating around  :D

Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 702
Magnegas ? seems everyone, an uncle Tom cobbley an'all  for well over a hundred years thats gone near this has given it another name (and another patent)... Brad gas .. or...O.U.R Gas lol fill ya boots.
Its certainly fun watching its progress.
 


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
It would seem that we do indeed have very high voltage spikes across the carbon rods during the arcing.

My supply voltage is around 22-27 volts,but we blew the crap out of a 240 volt neon that was placed across the two electrodes.

You cant see it in the video,but when the arc stop's,it looks like the whole jug of water is on fire for a couple of seconds,-and not just the red glow you see in the video--the camera just cant pick it up good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwZYDXBT94k


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Ok,whats everyone's thoughts of me placing my old scope across the two electrode's?
Will it go bang?


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Renaissance Man
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2765


Buy me a cigar
Hi Brad.

Perhaps the common name of " Water gas " is best?  Or Lowe's gas.

It seems this gas was made a long time ago, and according to Wikipedia more efficiently than standard " Town " gas!!  :o

From your photo it would suggest a good ratio ot Hydrogen..... O0

How about trying a resonant input? Match a capacitor to your transformers output inductance based upon your mains frequency.

Could be interesting...... ;)

Cheers Grum.


---------------------------
Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Hi Brad.











Quote
It seems this gas was made a long time ago, and according to Wikipedia more efficiently than standard " Town " gas!!  :o

Yes,1897 in fact Grum
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US603058

Quote
How about trying a resonant input? Match a capacitor to your transformers output inductance based upon your mains frequency.

It would want to be one beefy cap to handle that kind of current.

Quote
Perhaps the common name of " Water gas " is best?  Or Lowe's gas.

It seems that there is many names for it,and most of the people doing this,are doing it the same way.
So,as it all started back in 1897,and was patented back then,i dont see how anyone has the rights to this form of gas production?.

Knowing that there is some very high voltage spikes going on across the electrode's,it will be dam near impossible to get any sort of accurate power measurements.

Quote
From your photo it would suggest a good ratio ot Hydrogen..... O0

Oh,the gas is no problem,and yes,a good ratio of H in there for sure.
Volume of gas is no problem either-enough there to run a small motor for sure.
What we need,is to get the power consumption down,and i do not think that the arc welder is a very good transformer to use on this-as you would know.


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 702
Mmmm think I'd put a big resistance in series with any scope having seen that neon pop - In fact resistance in circuit with the neon first .  as for resonance   there are two flavours to consider  series or  parallel.  of course your going to have a good inspection of this waveform when you can.
I would beg to remind that an impulse wave (DC) might be a good option which can be brought to resonance as shown by fellow member gotoluc some time ago .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJQvqTpBdiQ  O0


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
« previous next »


 

Home Help Search Login Register
Theme © PopularFX | Based on PFX Ideas! | Scripts from iScript4u 2024-11-26, 22:33:59