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OverUnity Research > Thermally-Powered Devices > Heat to Electrical Power Conversion > Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor
2024-11-25, 23:37:01
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Author Topic: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor  (Read 54016 times)
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img  Vasik041
Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « on: 2017-04-25, 19:47:38 »
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As an introduction

Quote
N. E. Zaev’s article about using environmental heat to generate electricity was published somewhere in 1991. According to some internet resources, N.E. Zaev was researching this concept since 1960s, probably in cooperation with P.K. Oshepkov, founder of Public Institute of Energy Inversion. I heard first time about Zaev’s idea of conversion of environmental heat to electricity about ten years ago. Since that time I made a lot of experiments and attempts to build such device without any significant progress. In desperation, I started studding everything related to magnetic properties, BH curves etc. And accidentally, last year a chain of unexpected events was triggered, which brought me to understanding and some experimental results. Here, in this short summary, I am trying to document a path which one have to follow in order to be able understand and build such device.

Short story here, can post more details if interesting  :)

https://ferd041.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/h2e.pdf
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #1 on: 2017-04-25, 23:15:16 »
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Dear Vasik

you said this at the end of the paper:

And results are quite interesting. I made very rough measurements with oscilloscope, but over all
trend is clearly visible. Despite ”common” sense expectation that while increasing current and
core being saturated performance should be decreasing due to higher loses, above schematic
demonstrates an opposite behavior. COP increasing proportionally to maximum magnetization
current.

Is it possible that the heat from the wire wrapped around the core fed extra heat to the core at higher current,which would produce a more linear curve?

I'm sure you probably already considered this.

Since Smudge (Cyril)  is mentioned in the paper, I'm sure he may be able to comment on your work.

Thank you.

P.S. I wonder if you've heard of the Strachan/Aspden device

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=48.0


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #2 on: 2017-04-26, 04:40:54 »
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Quote from: ION on 2017-04-25, 23:15:16
Dear Vasik

you said this at the end of the paper:

And results are quite interesting. I made very rough measurements with oscilloscope, but over all
trend is clearly visible. Despite ”common” sense expectation that while increasing current and
core being saturated performance should be decreasing due to higher loses, above schematic
demonstrates an opposite behavior. COP increasing proportionally to maximum magnetization
current.

Is it possible that the heat from the wire wrapped around the core fed extra heat to the core at higher current,which would produce a more linear curve?

I'm sure you probably already considered this.

Since Smudge (Cyril)  is mentioned in the paper, I'm sure he may be able to comment on your work.

Thank you.

P.S. I wonder if you've heard of the Strachan/Aspden device

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=48.0

Dear ION,

Thank you for bringing to my attention Strachan/Aspden device.
I haven't seen it before.

Regarding my experiment, the document I posted to start this topic made some time ago.
I made more accurate measurements since that time and I can see COP about 200%  (output 2 times more than input) for some tests.
It could be that there is some mistake, but I haven't found it yet.
Of course, self runner would eliminate all doubts, but energy levels here too small and so far I was not able achieve looping.

I will provide more details in next posts.

Thanks,
Vasik
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #3 on: 2017-04-26, 05:37:20 »
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I made several steps to improve experiment.

While studying BH curves I was using core tracers and for power measurements flyback-like setup.
I got an idea to combine both in one, something like this (see attached pictures)

Now both currents from primary and secondary can be observer on same sense resistor
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #4 on: 2017-04-26, 05:39:53 »
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I tried this idea and it worked well

attached schematic of experiment, photo of setup and some scope traces
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #5 on: 2017-04-26, 05:53:08 »
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As a next step I decided use MCU to improve measurement.

First build was based on ATmega32 and was not very successful. MCU performance was not enough. So I decided to use ARM based Arduino Duo.
This setup can do about 1Msample/sec with 12 bit ADC resolution.
I use scilab scripts to process results and draw graphs (see attached).

If somebody want repeat this I can share all source codes, detailed schematics etc...

Probably too much information, its difficult to capture several years effort in a few posts :)
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #6 on: 2017-04-26, 06:04:51 »
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Sometimes earlier I made these documents for those who want try this experiment but don't want dive too deep into digital measurements

Attached "How to observe FE at home", "How to observe core cooling"  and "How build your own tiny MEG" ;)
« Last Edit: 2017-04-26, 17:46:17 by Vasik041 »
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #7 on: 2017-04-26, 15:53:50 »
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Dear vasik

I appreciate all the work you put into this project and I will take the time to read it all.

I like the current source drive approach.

Regarding your LTSpice drawing with input and output sharing the same current shunt resistor, Could you try something like this to loop the device:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=604.msg9550#msg9550

Rather than wasting power in 100 ohm resistor. I'm sure maybe you have tried something similar.

A suggestion: maybe work at higher voltages where semiconductor diode drops will have less impact on losses might help to get to self runner.

Regards and thanks for sharing this. 200% is impressive.

P.S any Arduino based design is appreciated, code, schematics etc will help me to learn that platform which I am also now tinkering with.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #8 on: 2017-04-26, 16:24:54 »
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Dear ION,

Yes, I understand that diode introduce significant loses here.
However it is important keep load resistance low, so that time when current flows in secondary much longer than driver pulse.
This is one of important requirements to get FE in such setup. And it makes difficult to loop it.

I made flashlight (just one LED) with similar idea you described but a little different arrangement.
Flyback driven with very short pulses and LED connected so that current goes back into battery.
MCU used here as pulse generator.
I hoped that such arrangement increase battery life. It worked several months but then I got tired waiting and switched it off  :)

Regards,
Vasik
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #9 on: 2017-04-28, 06:02:24 »
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I enjoyed reading your work in this area. Thanks for including the code for the long running light.

Maybe next time you test use a small value charged capacitor as input source instead of batteries so you can easily monitor and measure charge depletion, plus not have to wait so long for it to run down (unless you needed the light).  :)

Regards


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #10 on: 2017-04-28, 08:31:03 »
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Quote
P.S any Arduino based design is appreciated, code, schematics etc will help me to learn that platform which I am also now tinkering with.

I have placed some of my hardware/software/tools projects into git repository
https://github.com/vasik041/openlab

This project probably a good start
https://github.com/vasik041/openlab/tree/master/tools/h_bridge

It's a pulse generator based on Arduino Uno R3 board + LCD board (and also optional two rotary encoders). Originally I used it to control HBridge but it can be used as general purpose pulse generator.
I will be happy answer your questions if some info is missing.

Kind Regards

PS I will post schematic for my setup with Arduino Due later, unfortunately don't have it in presentable form right now
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #11 on: 2017-04-28, 08:35:15 »
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Quote from: ION on 2017-04-28, 06:02:24
I enjoyed reading your work in this area. Thanks for including the code for the long running light.

Maybe next time you test use a small value charged capacitor as input source instead of batteries so you can easily monitor and measure charge depletion, plus not have to wait so long for it to run down (unless you needed the light).  :)

Regards


I can't remove battery, it's a most important component of any Free Energy device :)

On a serious side, with capacitor it last only a minute or so. It was reported by  many people that charging battery with "proper" short pulses can make it work much longer and some even call it FE. There is quite resonable electro chemical explanation behind such behavior. Battery is not capacitor but...my idea with this build was to try whether there is some similar effect in batteries like dielectic absorbtion in capacitors. (Discharging with very short pulse with long pause between pulses so that  battery/capacitor can gain some charge back due to dielectic absorbtion or some similar process). This was outcome of my "discovery" of entropy effects in coils and capacitors. There should be something similar in batteries. It is probably interesting topic for further research, but I personaly believe that FE device should work without batteries and so haven't put much efforts into this.

Regards
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #12 on: 2017-04-28, 17:31:14 »
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Quote
PS I will post schematic for my setup with Arduino Due later

Here schematic of setup I use with Arduino Duo
and source code https://github.com/vasik041/openlab/tree/master/ferd/core_tracer

I use setup with two PC. One running host program (https://github.com/vasik041/openlab/tree/master/ferd/core_tracer/host) which allow adjust parameters and present results
Arduino board connected to another PC (old laptop) where running network-to-com bridge (https://github.com/vasik041/openlab/tree/master/ferd/core_tracer/comsrv)
This way risk to damage good PC during experiments is smaller  :)
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #13 on: 2017-04-28, 17:55:56 »
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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2017-04-28, 08:35:15

I can't remove battery, it's a most important component of any Free Energy device :)

On a serious side, with capacitor it last only a minute or so. It was reported by  many people that charging battery with "proper" short pulses can make it work much longer and some even call it FE. There is quite resonable electro chemical explanation behind such behavior. Battery is not capacitor but...my idea with this build was to try whether there is some similar effect in batteries like dielectic absorbtion in capacitors. (Discharging with very short pulse with long pause between pulses so that  battery/capacitor can gain some charge back due to dielectic absorbtion or some similar process). This was outcome of my "discovery" of entropy effects in coils and capacitors. There should be something similar in batteries. It is probably interesting topic for further research, but I personaly believe that FE device should work without batteries and so haven't put much efforts into this.

Regards

Yes, I understand the claimed effect that only happens with batteries.

Maybe you could explain why you used the capacitor 470uF, extra diode 1N5819 and 4.7 mH inductor to loop energy back to input. A much sharper pulse could occur withe just the LED back to the source battery since one side of your secondary is at ground potential, this is possible.

I would think the much sharper current pulse into the battery without these smoothing components would have more of a chance to stimulate the battery internal chemicals.

Regards


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #14 on: 2017-04-28, 18:04:47 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2017-04-28, 08:31:03
Originally I used it to control HBridge but it can be used as general purpose pulse generator.
What min/max pulse widths were you able to achieve with it ?
What min/max delays between pulses were you able to achieve with it ?
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #15 on: 2017-04-28, 18:51:34 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2017-04-28, 18:04:47
What min/max pulse widths were you able to achieve with it ?
What min/max delays between pulses were you able to achieve with it ?

Minimal pulse length 62.5ns (with 16MHz oscillator). Pulses generated using 16 bit timer (at low frequencies minimal pulse length will be higher).
Delay 100ms - 5us (frequency 10hz - 200khz)
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #16 on: 2017-04-28, 18:58:48 »
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Quote from: ION on 2017-04-28, 17:55:56
Maybe you could explain why you used the capacitor 470uF, extra diode 1N5819 and 4.7 mH inductor to loop energy back to input. A much sharper pulse could occur withe just the LED back to the source battery since one side of your secondary is at ground potential, this is possible.

Sorry, probably my explanation was not clear.
I wanted test an opposite situation - discharging battery with very short pulses and long pauses between them, so that  battery can gain some charge back due to dielectic absorbtion or some similar process.
4.7mH inductor limiting current peaks to provide small "feedback" current into battery during long pauses between pulses.

Regards
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #17 on: 2017-04-28, 23:15:54 »
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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2017-04-28, 18:58:48
Sorry, probably my explanation was not clear.
I wanted test an opposite situation - discharging battery with very short pulses and long pauses between them, so that  battery can gain some charge back due to dielectic absorbtion or some similar process.
4.7mH inductor limiting current peaks to provide small "feedback" current into battery during long pauses between pulses.

Regards

Vlasik
Your explanation was very clear when I went back and read it again. My mistake, I had another thought on my mind while I was reading it.  :-[ Sorry.

Might be interesting to try it the other way, though.  ;)

Regards


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #18 on: 2017-05-13, 07:09:43 »
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Weekend project:

Quote
Observing negative resistance

Here proposed very simple approach to demonstrate possibility of creating negative resistance in
coils with ferrite core and obtaining some extra power with it.
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #19 on: 2017-05-13, 14:07:37 »
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Dear Vasik

Thank you for the negative resistance document and sim file, your work on this is appreciated.

Regards



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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #20 on: 2017-05-13, 17:59:08 »
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Quote from: ION on 2017-05-13, 14:07:37
Dear Vasik

Thank you for the negative resistance document and sim file, your work on this is appreciated.

Regards

Thank you ION  :)
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #21 on: 2017-05-14, 08:02:43 »

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Buy me some coffee
Thanks for sharing your hard work Vasik very impressive  O0
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #22 on: 2017-05-14, 15:21:52 »

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Quote from: ION on 2017-05-13, 14:07:37
Dear Vasik

Thank you for the negative resistance document and sim file, your work on this is appreciated.
Thank, you too!

Take a look at this thread where we have been charging and discharging motor inductors at different rates and recovering energy stored in it into a capacitor.
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #23 on: 2017-05-14, 18:29:25 »
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Quote from: verpies on 2017-05-14, 15:21:52
Thank, you too!

Take a look at this thread where we have been charging and discharging motor inductors at different rates and recovering energy stored in it into a capacitor.

Thanks, that is interesting design, but I not sure why you expect that it will be OU ?
(I haven't read all 59 pages)
   
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Re: Rediscovering Zaev’s ferro-kessor « Reply #24 on: 2017-05-14, 18:41:28 »
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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2017-05-14, 18:29:25
Thanks, that is interesting design, but I not sure why you expect that it will be OU ?
(I haven't read all 59 pages)

Can anyone summarize the final result and where the thread went?


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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