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OverUnity Research > Pulsed / Radiant Energy > Tesla's Disruptive Discharge > Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity
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Author Topic: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity  (Read 85666 times)
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img  Grumpy
Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « on: 2010-07-27, 14:45:28 »

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I know everyone has heard and read all sorts of things regarding "radiant electricity" and how you can charge caps and batteries with it.

I have a coil and pulse circuit that (I think) produces the RE effect.  How do I charge caps and batteries with it?

Come on Gentlemen!  Lay it on me! 

I want a motionless battery and capacitor charger.  How do I get there?
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #1 on: 2010-07-27, 15:47:16 »

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The attached image is probably the most basic circuit for RE charging:

EDIT: This too - http://scene.org/~esa/merlib/radiant_energy_antenna_system.pdf
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #2 on: 2010-07-27, 17:37:13 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-07-27, 15:47:16
The attached image is probably the most basic circuit for RE charging:

EDIT: This too - http://scene.org/~esa/merlib/radiant_energy_antenna_system.pdf

This is one of several or many available on the 'Web:

http://www.nuenergy.org/alt/harnessing_nature%27s_electricity.htm

--Lee
« Last Edit: 2010-07-29, 04:43:27 by the_big_m_in_ok »
   
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Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #3 on: 2010-07-27, 18:43:21 »

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Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2010-07-27, 17:37:13
This is one of several or many available on the 'Web:

http://www.nuenergy.org/alt/harnessing_nature%27s_electricity.htm

--Lee


Interesting work.  I'm looking for examples that anyone can do and experimental data to support the principle.

I know of a way to charge a cap by rotating it, but this is impracticle, so I am looking to charge it without rotation.  Should work if you rotate the radiant force, but would be really sweet to not have to rotate anything at all.
   
img  BEP
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #4 on: 2010-07-27, 22:20:57 »
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Grumpy,

Either the 'force' is already rotating, always or it has a preferred handedness for things rotating within it.

Try making connection direction that seem counter intuitive.
Connect the other end of that core wire, through the load, to a good ground about 10m away. Direction between ground points may matter. I don't know, yet.

Things are looking good for my 'peristaltic charge pumping' trials this weekend.

The DC you reported seems like it is a very good thing to see  ;)
   
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Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #5 on: 2010-07-27, 22:33:18 »

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the vector orientations are critical and everyone gets them wrong and when they are wrong it can not work

What may have to rotate in one config will not have to in another.
   
img  stprue
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #6 on: 2010-07-27, 23:12:52 »

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Grumpy how fast do you need to charge caps?  The circuit diagram that you posted above will work without the hv supply just really slowly!
   
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Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #7 on: 2010-07-28, 00:10:25 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-07-27, 18:43:21
Interesting work.  I'm looking for examples that anyone can do and experimental data to support the principle.
Here's another example of atmospheric charging with a long wire/co-ax cable:

http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/capacitorcharger.htm

In any case, all one is doing is picking up 50/60 Hz line power from house wiring by induction in a city.  Rural applications require a whole lot more wire.  T. Henry Moray's smallest antenna was 300' long and 100' high, he said or wrote.
My former business associate and I were going to try and develop a commercially viable version of this idea, but patenting it may have presented problems due to "Public Domain" simplicity issues.

REEDIT:
Another:
http://www.nuenergy.org/experiments/modern_radiant_energy_circuit.htm



Quote
I know of a way to charge a cap by rotating it, but this is impracticle, so I am looking to charge it without rotation.  Should work if you rotate the radiant force, but would be really sweet to not have to rotate anything at all.

That's a new one on me.  Never heard of 'rotating' a capacitor, or a 'radiant source' to charge it.  Is there some 'Web reference or other source of info on this?

--Lee
« Last Edit: 2010-12-19, 04:12:10 by the_big_m_in_ok »
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #8 on: 2010-07-28, 00:28:03 »
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The Big:

Quote
My former business associate and I were going to try and develop a commercially viable version of this idea, but patenting it may have presented problems due to "Public Domain" simplicity issues.

It's also illegal.  You would be stealing power from the power company.

MileHigh
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #9 on: 2010-07-28, 02:08:11 »
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@milehigh
Quote
It's also illegal.  You would be stealing power from the power company.

I think that's open to debate, if I have a long antenna on top of my house and I can extract energy at 60hz then this energy on the antenna is on my private property. I did not coerce the energy to be there nor did I ask the power company to pollute my air space with EM energy. That is the real heart of the legal issue, the power company is not god they are simply a utility company providing goods and services and nothing more. If "ANY" company or individuals pollutes my personal space, my private property and if I can account for "who" caused this pollution then legally I have the right to make them stop. If they cannot or will not stop this EM pollution on my personal property then I should have the right to "mine" this resource. You see the moment the energy leaves the power line it is no longer their legal property, no more than the water from your sprinkler going over the fence into the neighbor's yard is legally your water . Can you steal water that runs or falls on to your property?, can you steal air from the space surrounding your house?, can you steal sunshine with solar panels? ---- no, as soon as the energy leaves the source of it's own accord it becomes public property. If they do not want people extracting energy on their own private property then the onus is on the power company to stop the radiation of energy from their lines.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #10 on: 2010-07-28, 02:14:31 »
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Quote from: MileHigh on 2010-07-28, 00:28:03
The Big:
It's also illegal.  You would be stealing power from the power company.
MileHigh
Okay, you have a point:

http://www.ece.utk.edu/~icove/PowerTheft.pdf

However, as a point of discussion, assuming it was actually efficient enough to be possible, suppose I build a "Joule Thief" that runs off batteries, provides surplus power to an external load, maintains the same voltage on the original batteries indefinitely, and does all that in my apartment.


Now, if I used some kind of tower coil arrangement that 'leaked' some wattage to the surrounding wall wiring:

1. Would that be possible?   (Keep in mind that the "hot" and "neutral" wiring is as ungrounded as any induction scheme I could use.)
2. Would it be detectable by the power company?    (They probably have some kind of software to do this, but does it reverse detect overvoltage conditions?)
3. If it was a) possible and b) detectable, would it be legal to do if the power company benefited from the increased power addition to their lines?

Is there a lawyer in the OUR Membership?

--Lee
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #11 on: 2010-07-28, 02:19:23 »

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Wilson and Wilson performed experiments where he rotated the dielectric of a capacitor and charged the capacitor.

W. Roentgen and H. A. Rowland performed similar experiments.  The results of these experiments helped form the foundation of electrodynamics and should be required reading for anyone looking for an alternative energy source.  See the thread on my bench.

What I am proposing is not illegal (at least not publicly) and forms the tip of the ol' energy iceburg.  If you can charge caps and batteries, then you can figure out how to build true non-moving devices that take very little energy to produce useful electricity. The extra energy does come from the environment.  There is no magic, no new physics, just re-interpretation of what we already know.

I have been in this game for a few years now and I am weary from all the BS that surrounds it.  Bedini and Bearden's latest spiel and Chava's endless scam, and all the BS device that are never divulged just wore me down.  There are many that probably know, provide clues, but never really tell.  There are a handful that really do know and can't tell.  There are far too many that claim to know, talk endlessly about it and even charge a premium for it, but never provide anything of value.  It disgust me that those who can help are bound by governments and other powers while others who can't help at all claim to have it all figured out.   Hundreds look and look, but none are even close, and even after endless hints and instructions they come up short or just give up.

I don't have it all figure out, but I have a lot of it figured out and I expect to soon join others in exile.

So, how do we charge caps and batteries?
   
img  BEP
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #12 on: 2010-07-28, 02:23:16 »
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In the case of the spark plug battery charger you are not stealing electricity from the power company. Your relative location to utility power users or utility power is not a concern.

I learned that trick from a HAM book published in the 30's. Been using it ever since then (the late 60's, I think). Many HAMs use it for a fox hunt camping/outing (not the animal kind). My most remote usage of it was near Bull Frog Utah. There wasn't a power line within a hundred miles and everything electric ran off the vehicle batteries when not powered from the antenna.

I'm sure it will pickup 60/50Hz quite well if you wrap it around your house.

The static electricity is created by moving the air over the wire, moving/changing electric charge surrounding the wire, probably other things and if you aren't quick enough, a healthy lightning strike. That is the purpose of the spark plug - in case you aren't fast enough. You aren't much of a HAM if you don't put a lightning arrestor on your feed line before your rig.

Mine is connected to my multi-band dipole with the flip of a coax switch. It charges my UPS and emergency rig batteries. I fried the power supply for that laptop years ago. Don't need it.

If you think that isn't free energy - well.... I give up.

Before someone actually tries this simple toy, be warned. Stick the end of your coax in a large, dry and clean Mason jar if there is a thunderstorm within 50 miles or less. If you don't, you'll learn why.
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #13 on: 2010-07-28, 02:35:45 »
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@allcanadian,

With respect to your Reply #9, I've read in my 'Web research that different countries look at the question differently.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/metropolitan/06-kesc-obtains-fatwa-against-power-theft-01

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2007/8/7/24987/Electricity-theft-is-now-a-felony-in-Dominican-Republic

Look at this last one:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peterfoster/3628961/The__strange_case_of_electricity_theft/

Do the "fat cat businessmen" deserve to express their greed legally while the proletariat masses suffer from the yoke of economic oppression?  I'm trying to be sarcastic and facetious at the same time.  ;D   :D   ::)

Seriously, people often steal because they're being stolen from by someone else.  Do two wrongs make a right?  This might be a philosophical question each one has to answer for himself.  Nobody owns my free will, but on the other hand, I have to take responsibility for my personal actions.  I'm willing to do that, but are "they"?

--Lee
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #14 on: 2010-07-28, 02:48:14 »
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@BigM
There are a few legal terms which cover this topic, one is "Intent" another is "Consideration". The intent of the power company is to provide a service and deliver goods(energy), however they do not intend to radiate EM energy. The energy radiating from the power lines is an unwanted consequence of the transfer of energy from one place to another. We can consider it in the same light as a leaky water main, if the city water main is unintentionally leaking water all over your property then are you "personally" stealing it, lol. Should the city sue you for theft of water or charge you for something you do not want and have never asked for?. This legal issue has a truck load of precedence regarding intent, that is nobody asked the power company to pollute our spaces with EM energy--Nobody.
The other legal term is consideration, which could simply be considered something of value. Here is a definition:
Quote
An exchange of "consideration" whether it be financial or of another sort between the parties to a contractual arrangement is crucial for the agreement to be legally enforceable.
The issue here is that I have only agreed to purchase electrical energy(goods) from the power company through the conductors to my property but I have never asked the power company to pollute my space with EM energy. There is no contract anywhere nor any agreement which states I have requested this in any shape or form therefore there is no consideration. A power company cannot take you to court for theft of energy anymore than a radio station can. The only way a power company could win this case is by buying the best lawyers, buying the judge and jury and circumventing justice because they have no case. Simply winning a case does not always mean justice has been served which I am sure everyone can understand.
I should mention this applies only to antenna systems with no physical connection to the power lines which are far removed from the power lines, that is not right next to them. As well all the articles you posted do not apply as they are about purposely stealing electrical energy through conduction or close proximity induction and of course it is illegal. This is where "Intent" comes into play, if you think or feel you are stealing energy then you very well may be but if you intend to utilize waste energy which may fall under the heading "broadcast power" then this is perfectly acceptable, let your conscience be your guide.
Regards
AC
« Last Edit: 2010-07-28, 03:41:16 by allcanadian »


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #15 on: 2010-07-28, 03:53:54 »
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@allcanadian,

The validity of most of your arguments in Post #14 occurred after I posted my last post.  I agree with what you said.  Distant wires need to be very long because they are distant from power sources.  Cosmic radio waves and radio transmissions bouncing off the inner ionosphere from across the continent cannot be controlled by the power companie(s).  That isn't their power.

And you're correct, the examples I cited were obvious attempts to steal power.  And, as I may have tried to imply, justice is relative when greedy businessmen own the court system(s).

I do like your analysis in regard to "leaking" power lines that no one asks for.  But, there's no justice when a 'little guy' wins a court case and then has an "accident" or his financial affairs are dealt a deliberate dose of computer-hacked bank account withdrawals that can't be traced.  I've heard a rumor that it's possible for a smart programmer to do this.  You implication is accurate, if that's what you said.

I've always tried to follow the law because everyone is looking for dishonesty, even me.  As it was written, "There is no good man, no not one."
                                                                                                                                                                                       --King David in the Psalm of David       

--Lee
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #16 on: 2010-07-28, 04:27:53 »
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If you effectively do a transformer coupling to a power line then you are drawing power from the power line and you are stealing it.  I was not making reference to bypassing electrical meters.

If you are far away from a power line then you are in Paul Lowrence territory and if you can pick up a hundredth of a milliwatt then more power to you.

Allcanadian is implicitly advocating a form of anarchy and doesn't seem to believe in doing things for the "collective."  It makes me think of a theme that bubbles up now and again with respect to cell phones.  Extensive studies show no correlation with brain cancer but if you want to you can cherry pick some data that points in this direction.

So, supposing that you can conclusively prove that cell phones increase the brain cancer rate by five per million.  Does that mean that we should ban all cell phones?  The answer is no, because you are forgetting to factor in all the lives that are saved because of cell phones.

We are where we are with respect to how we consume energy.  Our per capita energy consumption is very high.  Even if you are "off the grid" you are actually still on the grid because you still have to eat and wear clothes and put a roof over you head.  You can't forget that the ultimate fruition for all of the industrial infrastructure around us to allow you to kick back and watch the game on Saturday afternoon and have pizza and beer.  Whether you like it or not, you are "the industry" and "the industry" is you.  You are just as responsible for the BP blowout as BP is, because BP is you.

MileHigh
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #17 on: 2010-07-28, 05:33:13 »

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now about charging a capacitor or battery...any ideas?
   
img  otto
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #18 on: 2010-07-28, 07:09:59 »
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Hello all,

@Grumpy

you really dont know it or youre just joking??

Im asking because I know that youre really clever with very good posts..... an intelligent man.

Otto
   
img  BEP
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #19 on: 2010-07-28, 11:53:13 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-07-28, 05:33:13
now about charging a capacitor or battery...any ideas?

Not sure if these will all work with a battery but, a capacitor? Sure.

1. apply a voltage gradient across the terminals of the capacitor
Immerse the capacitor in an electric field then:
2. rotate the dielectric
3. stretch the dielectric
4. compress the dielectric
5. change the distance between plates
6. change the area between plates
7. rotate plates in opposite directions

'Immerse' is only useful if you wish to make a greater difference in dielectric charge. Regardless of your material location and potentials used, your dielectric is always in a charge field, and a magnetic field.
There are other methods but they depend upon knowing exactly where the islands of charges are in/on the dielectric.

I wouldn't suggest you perform all of the above on a battery  ;D

>>Edit...

Relative movement, distance, mass, velocity and acceleration are key.

Don't forget the root 'di' means 'across' in most Latin rooted languages  :) 
« Last Edit: 2010-07-28, 12:42:29 by WaveWatcher »
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #20 on: 2010-07-28, 14:12:33 »

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Quote from: otto on 2010-07-28, 07:09:59
Hello all,

@Grumpy

you really dont know it or youre just joking??

Im asking because I know that youre really clever with very good posts..... an intelligent man.

Otto

I really DO know.  Apparently no one else does, or they know and are not responding. 

Many people "think" they know, but they only know very little, or they know nothing at all, but they "talk the talk" and sell worthless products, books, and videos.  There are others that know and want to make sure that no one else does.  If you can not explain it so that others understand it then you probably do not really know.  I think Spherics, Sauron, Sparks, and SM know.   I don't think anyone associated with Chava knows.  Erfinder should know by now.

If you can charge a capacitor or battery with RE then you should have figured out the rest of the details within a few years.  If you can not move past this point then you have missed something.

@BEP
Manipulation of the dielectric requires "work".   How would you keep the dielectric continuously polarized without moving it?
   
img  duff
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #21 on: 2010-07-28, 14:46:12 »
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Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2010-07-28, 00:10:25

That's a new one on me.  Never heard of 'rotating' a capacitor to charge it.  Is there some 'Web reference or other source of info on this?

--Lee

Chris Carson created an electrostatic equivalent of the N-Machine, which consisted of a 1000pf variable capacitor that was spun by a 10,000 rpm motor.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1631-peter-whatever-happened-eric-p-dollard.html#post73792

Pictures follow the above post.
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #22 on: 2010-07-28, 16:33:30 »
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Quote from: duff on 2010-07-28, 14:46:12
Chris Carson created an electrostatic equivalent of the N-Machine, which consisted of a 1000pf variable capacitor that was spun by a 10,000 rpm motor.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1631-peter-whatever-happened-eric-p-dollard.html#post73792
Pictures follow the above post.
Okay, very good.  Now that I've seen the concept in pictures (Post Reply #24 in the EnergeticForum thread above), I have an idea of how the system works.  Don Smith had a similar system in his research paper elsewhere on the OUR site.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2.0




Also, Pg. 10 of this reference, to be precise:

http://www.free-energy-info.com/Smith.pdf    (105pp .PDF , may take awhile to load on a slow computer.)

I agree with the basic concept.  I'm thinking more along the lines of a resonant tower coil arrangement; also set forth by Smith.

--Lee
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #23 on: 2010-07-29, 01:31:16 »

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I am trying to find a legitimate reference that states Tesla charged batteries with "radiant electricity".  I'd settle for a reference where Eric Dollard says that you can charge a battery.  I know that Dollard charges a capacitor in one of his videos, but not a battery.

The reason that I am looking for this is to see how they did it.  I know of a direct means and and indirect means and I have never seen the indirect means applied by anyone.  By "indirect means", I mean you make the charges in the battery do what you want them to do without pulsing it or driving a current through it (this includes charging with cold current).

No "hearsay" please.  We have enough of that.
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity « Reply #24 on: 2010-07-29, 01:56:54 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-07-29, 01:31:16
...By "indirect means", I mean you make the charges in the battery do what you want them to do without pulsing it or driving a current through it (this includes charging with cold current).
No "hearsay" please.  We have enough of that.
Well, I don't have practical (read:"risky high voltage") experience, but would the Tesla hairpin circuit do the job?  Assuming high voltage was stepped down to something that the batterie(s) could handle, that is.

http://www.transformacomm.com/en/tech/tesla-hairpin-circuit.htm

http://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+hairpin+circuit&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=SyH&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&prmd=vdf&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=2c9QTPuPM4WjcZzI7K4H&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CC8QqwQwAw

This would be radiant energy coming off the capacitors in high voltage, and, it's said to be different than ordinary electricity.  However, one should be able to charge batteries with it, inasmuch as I know now.

Does this help?

REEDIT:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=71.0

--Lee
   
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