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OverUnity Research > Motors > Bedini > Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion
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Author Topic: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion  (Read 72960 times)
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img  MileHigh
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #425 on: 2010-11-29, 04:47:57 »
Group: Guest
Rosemary:

Sorry, but I am not up to this discussion.  I read what you wrote and I think that you are mixing your theories about your setup with a Bedni motor.

Think about a capacitor discharging through a diode and then into a battery.  So you have a current loop that consists of the cap, the diode and the battery.   If the cap has an initial voltage of 20 volts and the battery voltage is 12.6 volts, I think you would agree that the capacitor would discharge just once until it's voltage as about 12.6 volts, correct?  In other words, it's almost like discharging a capacitor directly through a diode.  It discharges once, and that's it, right?

Now just substitute the capacitor for an inductor and the same thing happens.  The inductor discharges once and the cycle is completed.

MileHigh
   
img  aussieaussieaussie
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #426 on: 2010-11-29, 04:49:25 »
Group: Guest
Poynt99,

I am a little shocked, as there was no warning.

I can't help that the moderator engaged in a debate about Climate Change with me, he spat out about five very very easy to correct mistakes in his argument.
He was using quotes from science papers that if you read the whole science paper the scientists are actually saying the opposite.
All I did was point out that these arguments were false and were simple journalistic mistakes.

Aaron seems like an intelligent person, until you get him to back up his claims, what he produces is just urban legend, and the moment you point out that his claims are false, WITH REAL EVIDENCE he will ban you, Very Very childish and close minded - how will he ever learn anything if he only listens to one side...


@MileHigh,
You are right, I do want to believe - but I am not stupid. I will wait until someone credible posts replication.
You are right, I did get banned because I did ask the basic questions for a range of bedini products. I started new threads, and developed quite a bit of open honest discussion about it - this is obviously unwelcome.  :(

If many of your members wish to discuss a subject, why would you ban members for discussing that subject?
Just doesn't make sense, unless it's a scam, but they have been doing this for years - why haven't more people sued them etc.??
Quite frankly this is a worse scam then the rest, the rest only trick big companies into giving them funding. These people are scamming you and me, the very people who are researching trying to save this planet.

I hope I am wrong, but what else can a deduce from the last two weeks??


Ozy
   
img  aetherevarising
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #427 on: 2010-11-29, 05:00:52 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010-11-29, 04:47:57
Rosemary:

Sorry, but I am not up to this discussion.  I read what you wrote and I think that you are mixing your theories about your setup with a Bedni motor.

Think about a capacitor discharging through a diode and then into a battery.  So you have a current loop that consists of the cap, the diode and the battery.   If the cap has an initial voltage of 20 volts and the battery voltage is 12.6 volts, I think you would agree that the capacitor would discharge just once until it's voltage as about 12.6 volts, correct?  In other words, it's almost like discharging a capacitor directly through a diode.  It discharges once, and that's it, right?

Now just substitute the capacitor for an inductor and the same thing happens.  The inductor discharges once and the cycle is completed.

MileHigh

Yes.  No question.  That's not the issue.  Poynty said that the 'spike' that highly contested New Age phenomenon 'gets squashed' implying that it's inefficient.  You then said that current flow is determined by impendance.  Both statements are right.  BUT.  The squashing of the voltage over the battery is irrelevant.  The current is still returned to the battery to recharge it.  And the rate of  recharge is determined by the rate of current flow - NOT by the voltage measured across the coil resulting from CEMF.  And while current flow is determined by impedance it also applies whether the current was generated by the coil or by the battery supply.  And their measurement is equivalent.  Therefore when it comes from the coil - it recharges the supply.  When it comes from the battery it discharges the supply.  That's the only point that counts.  What we still don't know - and what I understood was Grumpy's question - is if there is any other source of 'recharge'.  Personally I neither know or care.  Who needs it?  Mainstream science has it's answers in the very rules that you always articulately reference.  
   
img  aetherevarising
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #428 on: 2010-11-29, 05:14:09 »
Group: Guest
In other words, MileHigh - you are using mainstream argument to deny a benefit from what you see as 'stored energy' and I'm using mainstream argument to confirm that this is NOT stored but 'regenerated' energy.  And in my defense I have Inductive Laws to back me up.  There is no solid argument for 'stored' energy.  It's been a source of misdirection that has relied on assumptions.  And it's been with us for far too long.

And since this is the nub of your arguments - then that is the point at which this argument should be debated.  But I grant you.  It is as well to treat any claims to overunity with a certain amount of circumspection.  I believe that Grumpy's attitude is good.  It keeps the argument open until we have the answers.  It would be a shame to close the argument before these points were settled.

Where I sympathise with new age is that they're in mainstream's face.  That's got to be a good thing.  Else all we have is complacent acceptance of a status quo that is absolutely not tenable. But I tend to agree that they use some rather questionable tactics to support their arguments - which is a shame.  It makes New Age as culpable as Mainstream.  And it's a crying shame.  They're really not needed. 

Added.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #429 on: 2010-11-29, 05:28:56 »
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@Grumpy
Quote
For starters:  look at the attached diagram and we see a tiny current pulled from the earth.  Whoop-de-doo!  Ah-Ha!  Might you be able to increase this current to a more interesting level?  IF we arbitrarily say "no" we are self-defeated.  If we say "perhaps" and start the ol' mental wheels turning, we may find that we can indeed connect to the wheelwork of nature!  
I believe Bedini said that if one lead of an LED is placed on the plastic exterior of the battery case while the device is operating the LED will light up. So I think it should be perfectly obvious to everyone that there are in fact large electric fields and static charging effects occuring in and around the circuit. As well we know as a fact that conventional circuits are a joke in many respects unless we like generating heat, nanotechnology, open circuit paths and utilization of electrostatic forces are the future just as Tesla predicted.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  aetherevarising
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #430 on: 2010-11-29, 05:35:36 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: allcanadian on 2010-11-29, 05:28:56
@GrumpyI believe Bedini said that if one lead of an LED is placed on the plastic exterior of the battery case while the device is operating the LED will light up. So I think it should be perfectly obvious to everyone that there are in fact large electric fields and static charging effects occuring in and around the circuit. As well we know as a fact that conventional circuits are a joke in many respects unless we like generating heat, nanotechnology, open circuit paths and utilization of electrostatic forces are the future just as Tesla predicted.
Regards
AC

AC I never knew this.  In which case there's definitely proof that displacement current may be happening all over the place.  In which case we still need some measurements.  If this is actually recharging a battery then, indeed, we're into new science.  That's worth looking into and certainly refutes MileHigh's statement that this can be argued in terms of Mainstream science.  And, for that matter - it refutes my own take.  So.  What an interesting thing is this!
   
img  CompuTutor
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #431 on: 2010-11-29, 06:47:41 »
Group: Guest
Your essentially correct,
but it is a neon bulb.

A mid 90'ish ionization voltage initially,
with a meager current sustain current,
indicates an effect of note.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #432 on: 2010-11-29, 06:48:14 »
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@aetherevarising
Quote
AC I never knew this.  In which case there's definitely proof that displacement current may be happening all over the place.  In which case we still need some measurements.  If this is actually recharging a battery then, indeed, we're into new science.  That's worth looking into and certainly refutes MileHigh's statement that this can be argued in terms of Mainstream science.  And, for that matter - it refutes my own take.  So.  What an interesting thing is this!

Quote
"I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research." - Einstein

I think this quote says a lot, we have to move past what we think we know or have assumed and strive to accomplish what may be possible or even impossible.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  aetherevarising
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #433 on: 2010-11-29, 07:20:05 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: allcanadian on 2010-11-29, 06:48:14
@aetherevarising
I think this quote says a lot, we have to move past what we think we know or have assumed and strive to accomplish what may be possible or even impossible.
Regards
AC

More than anything these last comments are comforting.  It acknowledges MileHigh's requirements for full accountability - and it also acknowledges that there may be something very well worthwhile looking into.  For me that's a perfect outcome.  No evident polarisation of attitudes that I can see. Which also endorses MileHigh's requirements for measurements - and Poynty's for that matter.  SO.  BIT'S.  How about it?

 ;D
Regards,
Rosemary

BTW - Bit's.  Here's my personal problem.  I can't log into EF.Com's links.  I'm not a full member.  They know I'm that Gabriel and they won't give me the license to check their data.  So it's pointless my ever checking on those links.  Which is why I have very little knowledge of this new Bedini thing.  Which is also why it's needed to get the measurements here.  If they're not sufficient then I presume you've got something that is measurable.  And my hope is that you'll then apply some recommended measurements.  What I can't ask for - then I know Poynty and Grumpy and MileHigh can.  This is their area of expertise afterall.

added
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #434 on: 2010-11-29, 07:37:41 »
Group: Guest
Rosemary:

A lighting neon or LED means nothing.  It's a dime-a-dozen parlour trick and if you surf YouTube videos you can see it everywhere.  It's pure mainstream.  You can try looking at Lidmotor's clips.  You are now involved in wild speculations about a Bedini motor that will lead you nowhere.  Like I said, a Bedini motor is a very basic pulse circuit and is easily understandable, but you have to have some base knowledge to work with.  Sorry, I am not going to get into an esoteric debate with you.

Here is a suggestion for a little project:  Search online and try and find out why an LED or a neon light will light when you touch it to the battery case.  There has to be logical reason for it, and it makes no sense to speculate that "something special is going on outside of mainstream" before you try to inform yourself first what could possibly explain it.  Seemingly John Bedini doesn't know why it happens either and I would assume that he would attribute it to "radiant energy."

MileHigh
   
img  aetherevarising
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #435 on: 2010-11-29, 07:49:28 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010-11-29, 07:37:41
Rosemary:

... but you have to have some base knowledge to work with.  Sorry, I am not going to get into an esoteric debate with you.

Here is a suggestion for a little project:  Search online and try and find out why an LED or a neon light will light when you touch it to the battery case.  There has to be logical reason for it, and it makes no sense to speculate that "something special is going on outside of mainstream" before you try to inform yourself first what could possibly explain it.  Seemingly John Bedini doesn't know why it happens either and I would assume that he would attribute it to "radiant energy."

MileHigh

MileHigh - I'm happy to admit to my lack of knowledge - which is way more than I can comfortably live with.  But I'm getting more than a little tired of you all assuming that I do not have a reasonable working knowledge - certainly as much as the most of you.  Unlike you all I find it entirely INSUFFICIENT.  You seem to think your own level of knowledge is MORE THAN ENOUGH. 

I am very well aware of the fact that it is possible to light neons - LED's and the rest from what New Age call 'radiant energy' and what other's call displacement current - and yet others give it no name at all.  It's loosely referred to by Tesla as proof of aether energies and it's myriad definitions is only proof of the myriad reasons that our present day technologies and technologists et al - think of when they refer to it. 

Please refrain from accusing me of 'esoteric philosophies' when I argue my position ENTIRELY from within mainstream theory.

And if Bedini can light a neon tube by placing it on the plastic coat of a battery - THEN THAT IS PROOF OF ENERGY REACHING THAT LIGHT - regardless of it's source.  I ASSURE YOU I cannot get a neon or any light to light when I simply place it against the plastic coat of any battery that I own or use.  And I have LOADS of batteries to test this with.  There MUST BE some kind of energy being transferred.  You can call it what you will.  Photonic, Electric, Radiant - and more.  Take your pick.

Rosemary
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #436 on: 2010-11-29, 07:58:41 »
Group: Guest
Rosemary:

Yes energy is reaching the light and there is a simple explanation for it.  You will even find the answer posted within the last eight hours in this very thread.

Quote
The inductive kickback sees the battery as a substantial load, with low impedance. The total impedance it sees is largely determined by the length of wire connecting the inductor to the battery; the shorter this is, the lower the impedance. There will also be a finite amount of inductive reactance within the battery itself, but it is quite small.

Ideally, since we are discussing battery charging voltage, we need only be concerned with the actual battery terminal voltage as measured with a fast scope and probe. Scope measurements taken at the inductor or switch end will produce a false indication of the actual battery terminal voltage, and should be avoided.

Because the battery itself has an inherent inductive reactance, albeit relatively small, there may be a very brief high voltage spike measurable at the battery terminals, but the over-riding bulk of the inductive kickback pulse will be just a few volts (if that) above the nominal battery terminal voltage. The time ratio will probably be on the order of 1:100 or wider.

MileHigh
   
img  aetherevarising
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #437 on: 2010-11-29, 08:04:01 »
Group: Guest
MileHigh your reference says nothing about a neon or any light lighting as a result of energy that is NOT transferred through a wire.  Is the neon connected by any wire that comes from the inductor?  If yes - then it's standard technology.  If no - then it's non standard.  It's that simple.  If it's energy that has been transferred through the air then that is significant.  It does not - of itself - prove that the batteries are recharging.  But it IS significant.

Rosemary
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #438 on: 2010-11-29, 08:06:10 »
Group: Guest
Rosemary:

It's totally insignificant and you can do more research if you want.  I'm done.

MileHigh
   
img  Loner
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #439 on: 2010-11-29, 08:24:28 »
Group: Guest
Grumpy, I'll be happy to charge a battery with displacement current.

As soon as you give me a way to induce it into the wire as electron motion...   ;D

(Tes.Kap Concepts....  Seems like it should be simple, eh?)

Just had to throw that in, as such "Keys" are not discussed often enough.

Not expecting a response, as this is just a bit "Off Topic", unless you are "Suggesting" that is part of the Bedini device operation.  If so, that would be an insight I would love to hear, but also, if that were true, measurable proof would be easy, etc.
   
img  Mark
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #440 on: 2010-11-29, 15:01:34 »
Group: Guest
Hello Ozy and Rosemary,

I just discovered this forum. I'm the same user name Mark on the EF forum.

Rosemary I was wondering why I hadn't seen any post from you over at EF for such a long time. I cant believe you were banned, what on earth for?

Ozy same with you. No warning at all eh. I was starting to also ask some questions that I couldn't get any satifactory answeres for. I finally gave up, I wondered if I was getting close to being banned?

Mark
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #441 on: 2010-11-29, 15:19:32 »

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Quote from: Loner on 2010-11-29, 08:24:28
Grumpy, I'll be happy to charge a battery with displacement current.

As soon as you give me a way to induce it into the wire as electron motion...   ;D

(Tes.Kap Concepts....  Seems like it should be simple, eh?)

Just had to throw that in, as such "Keys" are not discussed often enough.

Not expecting a response, as this is just a bit "Off Topic", unless you are "Suggesting" that is part of the Bedini device operation.  If so, that would be an insight I would love to hear, but also, if that were true, measurable proof would be easy, etc.

The battery is a dipole, so it converts it.    So, yes, you can charge a battery with displacement current.  However, I decided againsts dicussion of this in this thread since everyone here is so smart.  I am suggesting that Bedini had the right idea, even if he has a wrong approach.

I have learned that when people fight so hard for ignorance it is best to let them have it, for your own sanity.  

See, it is not so well-known that before a conduction current can flow in a conductor, displacement current flowed outside the conductor.  If the EMF is a brief pulse, there is very little time for conduction current to manifest, but the displacement current is much faster.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #442 on: 2010-11-29, 15:29:58 »
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@aetherevarising
Quote
I am very well aware of the fact that it is possible to light neons - LED's and the rest from what New Age call 'radiant energy' and what other's call displacement current - and yet others give it no name at all.  It's loosely referred to by Tesla as proof of aether energies and it's myriad definitions is only proof of the myriad reasons that our present day technologies and technologists et al - think of when they refer to it.  
I think this may be a good time to touch on the myth that there are different kinds of electricity which is perpetuated in most every textbook. In physics there are no different kinds of electricity, there are charged states and the relationships they have to other charged states in a relative sense. That is a quantity of charge at a given potential on the plate of a battery is no different that the same quantity of charge at the same potential on a charged sphere of the same surface area and they will produce the same effects. As well an "electrostatic generator" which charges a capacitor produces a result which is no different than an inductive coil which charges that same capacitor. If anyone here believes that what we falsely call static electricity has no power or significance then I would suggest they try charging a capacitor or leyden jar with this silly static electricity and touching the terminals, I am afraid they will be in for quite a shock in every sense of the word,lol.
Of course we should never touch the leads of any capacitor for this very reason because a static buildup can be just as lethal as charging the capacitor any other way.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #443 on: 2010-11-29, 15:58:20 »

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Physics does have different forms of current:

Conduction current
Displacement current
Polarization Current
Convection current

These are jsut off the top of my head and there are probably other forms.
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #444 on: 2010-11-29, 17:05:53 »
Group: Guest
Mark:

Welcome to this web site!  I saw your postings on the Energetic Forum and I think that you will make a great contribution around here!

MileHigh
   
img  Hoppy
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #445 on: 2010-11-29, 18:32:13 »
Group: Guest

Join the club mate.

You, like me and many others have learnt that asking too many pertinent questions on the EF only leads to a ban. Its a tight club of like minded individuals who are quite happy to ignore established electrical principles and worship the FE god.

Hoppy


Quote from: aussieaussieaussie on 2010-11-29, 03:39:00
I have been banned from Energetic Forum....  :(  ::)

Here is a brief email I sent to the moderator:

Come on that is censorship!
All I did was ask some very valid questions, that many of your members are too afraid of asking because of been banned.
I have promised not to post in defense of CO2 anymore, and they attacked me, so did you ban Ash? did you ban the others that attacked me?
I have stopped replying to those stupid attacks, so banning me only serves the purpose of censoring anyone who asks questions.
Your actions are of a personal nature and not fair. You are just upset that I successfully debunked a few of your claims... So what? Now you know, now you will choose to deliver better evidence for your claims.
You are banning the person who started threads with lots of posts and activity, makes no sense???
Grow up, I am only trying to improve the quality of this forum, so as not to scare away people with a brain.

Hope this helps,

Ozy

So sorry folks looks like the questions will never be answered, Hey I tried! I only wanted to give Rick $10,000 but hey if thats the way they operate, I think I will wait for a less censorship orientated OU device to appear and jump on that.  $10,000 is a lot of money and I think I might spend it on solar panels, the gains will be much more significant then bits setup, and there is no mystery involved, they will also gladly answer any questions I have.

PEACE OUT BROTHERS!!!!
   
img  Mark
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #446 on: 2010-11-29, 20:26:38 »
Group: Guest
Thanks Milehigh

I may not be as sharp as some of you but I'm not afraid to ask questions either.  It's nice that the people on this forum have the ability to answer questions directly without dancing all around the question. I like most of the people over at EF but sometimes its very difficult if not impossible to get a direct answer to a question.

Mark
   
img  Loner
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #447 on: 2010-11-29, 20:56:35 »
Group: Guest
Grumpy, Thanks for that.

I am not sure about the "Conversion" abilities of a standard lead-acid battery, but that is secondary to this "Stupid" question.  I'm not ready to delve into that can of worms, here on this thread.

It's a well accepted theory that an inductor delays (I need not elaborate here, right?) the flow of "Standard" electron flow, however here is a question that I am curious about.  Is this delay also manifested in the displacement current, and if so is that the "True" reason for the delay in the "Electron" based current?  I don't believe so, as I see a different level of delay on the displacement current in the few experiments I have done in this area.  (I lean to the two delays, while like in many ways, being different in the basic operation.  See, I can't even ask without throwing in my 'opinion'.  Not good science of me.)

I also must give that they could be the same, due to the interaction, and were I to put this into "Way out there" mode, this could be the "Start" of the magnetic field, where the two effects are separated.  Even with experience, it becomes obvious that I don't know nearly enough about this area.  It seems obvious to me, that if you take all this into account, that either way both the "Start" and the "Stop" become very important, for the reason of this interaction.  (Is that what Tesla was saying?)  SO, while a discharge of an inductor is not as simple as some would think, the charge has the same "undocumented?" properties and this would be where the Bedini devices were attempting to go?  (I can't even break apart dipole currents worth a darn, yet, so please indulge me...)

I'm throwing this out there just because I find certain things VERY difficult to work with, especially when dealing with things I can't even measure properly.  This is why I was saying all that "Stuff" about checking for OU on the 10 coil device.  Anyone could produce an over abundance of "Other" things, but what to do with them.  If the input and output are the "SAME" energy form, the overall measurements become simple to verify.  Do you think I'm on the path, or lost in the woods?  (I'm trying to keep it "Real".)
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #448 on: 2010-11-29, 21:22:15 »

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This discussion should move to another topic, but:

E and H field in dieletrics are supposed to be in-phase.

The lag of current is the result of the magnetic fields involved with conduction.


See second link:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=79.msg7174#msg7174
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion « Reply #449 on: 2010-11-29, 22:40:48 »
Group: Guest
Loner:

Your topic about displacement current has been discussed in the past either on this thread or somewhere else on the site, I can't remember exactly.  Myself and Grumpy have fought it out (not saying that in a bad sense) a few times so let me give you my take.

You can basically forget about displacement current because it only occurs in series with real electron flow current.  You can think of a series RLC circuit with a resistor in series with a coil in series with a capacitor.  The only place displacement current that exists in this example is in the dielectric between the plates of the capacitor.  The displacement current is equal to the regular electron current.

When I say "basically forget" what I mean is that you can completely ignore it when you are doing circuit analysis.  It's equal and identical to the regular current flow and it's redundant and moot to discuss it.  Certainly there is is no displacement current in a Bedini motor to worry about.

You may have different thoughts about this like I know Grumpy has.  You may speculate that in just about any circuit there is a second "invisible" displacement current that causes effects and you are trying to get a handle on that.  Why an inductor delays electron flow is understood and it has nothing to do with displacement current.  You can always speculate about these things and I am not stopping you.  I would just request that you start a thread or threads investigating displacement current if that suits you.  This thread is about the 10-coiler and of course checking for over unity on the 10-coiler is right in line with what this thread is all about.  If you take the time to read this thread you will see that I cover a lot of technical material and sometimes take a tough stance on various issues.  Unfortunately with respect to testing for over unity with the 10-coiler, no owners of 10-coilers have actively participated in this thread on that level.

Finally, permit me to examine one of your key quotes in light of what I just stated above.

Quote
It's a well accepted theory that an inductor delays (I need not elaborate here, right?) the flow of "Standard" electron flow, however here is a question that I am curious about.  Is this delay also manifested in the displacement current, and if so is that the "True" reason for the delay in the "Electron" based current?

Here you are speculating that there are "two currents" associated with an energizing inductor.  Do you have any basis for saying this or are you just going out on a limb and assuming this is the case for the sake of argument?  You imply that there are two currents, but then you speculate that the two may somehow be tied together and that causes the delay in the electron based current.  Again, I am not trying to be a "bad guy" but I am questioning you so that perhaps you will question yourself.  The true reason for the delay in the electron based current is observable on the bench, it's not hiding.  Sometimes you have to take things at face value.   The reason for the delay is that energy is being stored in the building up of the magnetic field associated with the coil, and that takes electrical power over a period of time to accomplish that.  Again, this is a directly observable phenomenon.  There is no displacement current at all associated with an inductor.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2010-11-30, 00:16:31 by MileHigh »
   
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