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Author Topic: Bedini 10-Coil Alternative Discussion  (Read 72995 times)

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I assure you that the voltage measured in Counter EMF from collapsing fields on an inductor moves through the battery - unhindered - as can be measured across shunt resistors on either side or both - of the battery terminals.  Are you saying that the voltage from the CEMF is actually reduced somehow - in which case I can't agree?  Or are you saying that very high voltage spikes that we can't measure are not able to go through the battery.  If so you may be right.  But if we can't even measure them - then I'm not sure that it's relevant.  And is this what Grumpy is pointing to as the source of displacement current?  My take is that the only energy that can be induced to return to the battery is sourced and then returns to the inductor via the battery provided there's some path to allow it.  If there's no path then any stray high voltages that we can't measure - may be RF or somesuch.  And I can't believe it would recharge the battery.  But it would be nice if it could and I've love to be proved wrong.

The inductive kickback sees the battery as a substantial load, with low impedance. The total impedance it sees is largely determined by the length of wire connecting the inductor to the battery; the shorter this is, the lower the impedance. There will also be a finite amount of inductive reactance within the battery itself, but it is quite small.

Ideally, since we are discussing battery charging voltage, we need only be concerned with the actual battery terminal voltage as measured with a fast scope and probe. Scope measurements taken at the inductor or switch end will produce a false indication of the actual battery terminal voltage, and should be avoided.

Because the battery itself has an inherent inductive reactance, albeit relatively small, there may be a very brief high voltage spike measurable at the battery terminals, but the over-riding bulk of the inductive kickback pulse will be just a few volts (if that) above the nominal battery terminal voltage. The time ratio will probably be on the order of 1:100 or wider.

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

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Grumpy,

There's the "chicken or egg" question to consider here. The battery effectively quashes the HV spike, so if there is no HV spike, can there be any significant displacement current via the conductors?

.99

PS. Sorry grumps. I accidentally used modify instead of quote, but I did not edit anything in your post.

By "squash" do you mean that it is absorbed and dissipated as heat?

1. There are "rumors" throughout OU literature, such as the that for the AVEC device, that alludes to something termed "cold current".  I posted some supporting evidence a while back that indicated that inducing conductive current in the collector of the TPU probably induces displacement current into the insulation around the collector and that this is the "cold current" everyone speaks of.  Spherics said this will charge batteries and can be seen as a slight rise in the battery voltage while the device is running.  (I have witnessed this slight voltage increase, but did not verify charging as I had more important things at the time.)

2. This thread has bashed Bedini and his followers into oblivion, but the bashers never leave the comfort zone.  They never venture into the "unknown".  There are endless pages of why Bedini's devices can't work, but nothing offered to solve the issue of "our increasing need for energy".

3. I Googled Bedini's 10-coiler and see that there is an earth "ground".  It is possible to pull a small current from the earth ground using electrostatic principles.  Might this small current become a large current if using electrodynamic (rate of change per time) principles?

G

   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
By "squash" do you mean that it is absorbed and dissipated as heat?

Grumps,

An inductor in this discharge phase is a constant current source. It therefore "adjusts" its output voltage to maintain the current that is presently energizing it. If it sees a low impedance, then it will cut back its output voltage accordingly. If it sees a dynamic impedance (as I alluded to in my prior post), then it adjusts dynamically and accordingly, all the while trying to maintain a constant current output.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Grumpy:

Here is another angle on the discharging inductor phase for your consideration.  The coil stores a finite amount of energy the moment before it starts to conduct current through the diode and through the battery.  The point being that you start with a finite amount of energy.  There is no "unknown" to venture into.  Everything is known.

From what I see, the "unknown vs. known" is a recurring theme that you like to bring up frequently.  That gives you an open avenue to argue anything you want.  Like in the posting you just made you are speculating the somehow a small current can become a large current using "electrostatic principles."  What ground?  What current?  What "electrostatic principles?"  Sorry, I just don't go for the pie-in-the-sky stuff, especially when it comes to a Bedini motor.  Like I posted a while back, a Bedini motor is a very simple pulse circuit, and it can be analyzed inside-out no problem whatsoever.  Every current loop and every voltage node can be looked at and understood.  That is the reality.

You can call what I say here "bashing" if you want but I don't.  The majority of what is stated in this thread is a real and true analysis of how a Bedini motor and the 10-coiler really works and it's filled with tons of useful technical information.  It's also the truth.  The closest that I come to "bashing" is when I looked at some of the clips put up and statements made by some of the main players in this realm and I gave a frank and honest appraisal of what I saw.

We do indeed have an increasing need for energy, but a Bedini motor is not part of the solution to that important and vital issue.  If anything, it's a distraction, a waste of time and energy and money that could be put to better use somewhere else.  When I look at that computer graphic video clip with the jumbo 10-coiler powering a house while it charges its battery banks back and forth, I am really offended.  It's pure snake oil and any person that is truly interested in finding solutions for our future energy needs should be offended also.  In that sense this thread is making a contribution to our energy future, it's pointing out the paths that are dead-ends.  If just one person doesn't drop $15,000 on a glorified Bedini 10-coiler battery charger that discharges one set of batteries to put less of a charge in another set of batteries, then I will be doing that person a service.

I am trying to do good here, I really mean it.  You should try to look at it from that perspective.

MileHigh
   

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I bring up unknown vs known because modern science does not know "everything".

See attached for the electrostatic principles and the small current the flows FROM THE GROUND CONNECTION.

This begs the question:  were all of the "failed" Bedini device replications properly grounded?  Maybe Bedini had the right idea but wrong approach...

I'm not siding with or defending Bedini, I just wanted to take a look at some of the "unknowns".  You are smart person but you stay in your comfort zone.  So, what I am saying is:  stop wasting your time beating the dead horse named Bedini into dust and take a look at the "unknowns".

For starters:  look at the attached diagram and we see a tiny current pulled from the earth.  Whoop-de-doo!  Ah-Ha!  Might you be able to increase this current to a more interesting level?  IF we arbitrarily say "no" we are self-defeated.  If we say "perhaps" and start the ol' mental wheels turning, we may find that we can indeed connect to the wheelwork of nature! 

(Disclaimer:  the electrons extracted from the earth are replenished by the Sun, so do not think for a second that this is "free energy", but just another source.)

   
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Grumpy:

Quote
I bring up unknown vs known because modern science does not know "everything".

Of course science doesn't know everything but it does know some things.  I don't feel that not knowing "everything" means you can speculate on "anything."  For example, we know there is a finite amount of energy in an energized Bedini coil.  We know that the current level when it starts to discharge through the diode will be the same current level that the coil had in it from the source battery excitation before the transistor switched off.  We know that the coil will adjust its output voltage to maintain that current level.

Quote
This begs the question:  were all of the "failed" Bedini device replications properly grounded?  Maybe Bedini had the right idea but wrong approach...

Here is an example of where you are venturing into the unknown.  That example of electrostatic induction has nothing to do with how a Bedini motor works.  There is no connection at all.  Therefore in this particular case there is no "question to beg."  In your example current flows from the ground connection into the sphere (or electrons flow out of the sphere) and it does not relate in any way to a Bedini motor.

For a Bedini motor, you can say that the main battery negative terminal is the "ground" for the setup.  If you connect that Bedini motor ground to a true earth ground then nothing will happen.  The Bedini motor will then run in exactly the same way except that now you can say that its ground potential is "tied" to the earth ground potential.  That means that the positive terminal of the battery can now be measured relative to the local earth ground.  If there is no earth ground connection to the battery negative terminal, then you can say that the Bedini motor circuit is "floating" with respect to the earth ground.

Quote
For starters:  look at the attached diagram and we see a tiny current pulled from the earth.  Whoop-de-doo!  Ah-Ha!  Might you be able to increase this current to a more interesting level?  IF we arbitrarily say "no" we are self-defeated.  If we say "perhaps" and start the ol' mental wheels turning, we may find that we can indeed connect to the wheelwork of nature! 

Like I said your diagram has no connection at all to a Bedini motor.  If you want to say "yes" to some form of current amplification in your example, then the question for you is how do you do this?  What can you offer up as a potential explanation for this possible event?  That's for you to get the mental wheels turning, or is this all pure speculation on your part?  My mental wheels turn just fine into areas of my own choosing.

Believe me I can get very creative with my thinking but for something as basic as a Bedini motor there is not much to get excited about.  The hope is that some readers out there that read these Bedini threads will also end up not too excited about Bedini motors with respect to their free energy potential after they understand how they work.  By the same token they hopefully will learn some stuff that they can apply elsewhere in their research.  That's the kind of wisdom that one would hope these Bedini threads will impart on some of the enthusiasts.

MileHigh
   

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Grumpy:

Like I said your diagram has no connection at all to a Bedini motor.  If you want to say "yes" to some form of current amplification in your example, then the question for you is how do you do this?  What can you offer up as a potential explanation for this possible event?  That's for you to get the mental wheels turning, or is this all pure speculation on your part?  My mental wheels turn just fine into areas of my own choosing.

MileHigh

Speculation and unanswered questions.  Enjoy your comfort zone.
   
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Grumpy:

Like I said, a Bedini motor is nothing but a comfort zone.  There are no surprises any more than looking at a proverbial mechanical spring and then coming to the understanding that an inductor and a spring are basically the same thing.  That demystifies an inductor and a Bedini motor can be demystified also.  So much so that when you come to that understanding and then take a second look at Bedini and his cohorts you wonder what the hell those guys have been drinking and what their motivations are.  Look at the example of a magnetic field and people talking about "North poles" and "South poles" and how they might be manipulated differently.  With a bit more understanding then you know that there are no real poles, and that's just a naming convention.  What follows from that is the realization that it makes no sense to speculate about North and South poles having different properties.  That can also be extended to Bedini's and other's nonsensical talk about Bloch walls in the middle of bar magnets.  You keep on going in that direction and you slide further and further into a belief system that's disconnected from the reality of what you see with your multimeter and scope on the bench.

Your speculation about a static electricity example applying to a Bedini motor doesn't apply and there is no displacement current to be found.  I am not at all trying to suggest that you shouldn't speculate but at least sometimes you could try to back up your speculations with something.  That at least provides some sort of a basis for discussion.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2010-11-29, 02:58:36 by MileHigh »
   

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I was going to but changed my mind.
   
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That's okay Grumpy, we can agree to disagree.  I have some strong feelings about this stuff as you probably do as well.  The real bad guy is the guy that steals money from people selling them stuff that doesn't work.  In the free energy field there is a lot of that going round.
   
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That's okay Grumpy, we can agree to disagree.  I have some strong feelings about this stuff as you probably do as well.  The real bad guy is the guy that steals money from people selling them stuff that doesn't work.  In the free energy field there is a lot of that going round.

Milehigh, we all know that you have not obtained one because you said so yourself. With this said, you are implying that you have been ripped off from the real bad guy, is that true? You personaly I mean. Your web site is amazing then because it implies that you truly are doing Over Unity Research, but since I have following this thread and others, it appears that all you want to do is bash John. Hell I even posted another article with more development towards self running machines and you didn't even blink an eye and was right back to the bashing. Perhaps you should rename your web site to the John Bedini bashing forum, then people will not feel they are getting ripped off in there quest for Over Unity Discussion. Who is the real bad guy here?
   
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Jeff:

I am not sure what article you are talking about.  If you can provide a link that would be great.

The real challenge for you is that if you disagree with I say, then argue the points out with me.  Also, like I said, you can try to spin it as "bashing" when I would call it a reality check where I am looking for the truth.

So bring it on Jeff, find something that you disagree with and make your points.

If you can't do it, then you've got nothing.  You are just moaning and saying, "You're bashing."

Step up to the plate and tell me what you disagree with and why.

MileHigh
   
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Jeff:

I am not sure what article you are talking about.  If you can provide a link that would be great.

The real challenge for you is that if you disagree with I say, then argue the points out with me.  Also, like I said, you can try to spin it as "bashing" when I would call it a reality check where I am looking for the truth.

So bring it on Jeff, find something that you disagree with and make your points.

If you can't do it, then you've got nothing.  You are just moaning and saying, "You're bashing."

Step up to the plate and tell me what you disagree with and why.

MileHigh

The first debate point is that you said you were being ripped of from the real bad guy's. Where is your proof. Did you buy one and and became disinterested, but now you just want your money back? Just bashing some one is not proof enough. You don't even own a Bedini motor (as you call it) but you speak as if your an expert in all of the tests. Your bias is truly standing in the way of your willingness to test for yourself. The article was a few post bak in this thread relating to the two South African girls. How quickly we forget!
   
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Jeff:

Yes I forgot that article and I did comment on it.  I told you that it was a puff piece, did you read that?

Quote
The first debate point is that you said you were being ripped of from the real bad guy's.

I did not say that at all.  You have a full mastery of the English language and you know I was making a generic comment about the whole free energy scene.

So again, please step up to the plate and tell me what you disagree with and why.

MileHigh
   
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Grumpy:

Here is another angle on the discharging inductor phase for your consideration.  The coil stores a finite amount of energy the moment before it starts to conduct current through the diode and through the battery.  The point being that you start with a finite amount of energy.  There is no "unknown" to venture into.  Everything is known.

From what I see, the "unknown vs. known" is a recurring theme that you like to bring up frequently.  That gives you an open avenue to argue anything you want.  Like in the posting you just made you are speculating the somehow a small current can become a large current using "electrostatic principles."  What ground?  What current?  What "electrostatic principles?"  Sorry, I just don't go for the pie-in-the-sky stuff, especially when it comes to a Bedini motor.  Like I posted a while back, a Bedini motor is a very simple pulse circuit, and it can be analyzed inside-out no problem whatsoever.  Every current loop and every voltage node can be looked at and understood.  That is the reality.You can call what I say here "bashing" if you want but I don't.  The majority of what is stated in this thread is a real and true analysis of how a Bedini motor and the 10-coiler really works and it's filled with tons of useful technical information.  It's also the truth.  The closest that I come to "bashing" is when I looked at some of the clips put up and statements made by some of the main players in this realm and I gave a frank and honest appraisal of what I saw.

We do indeed have an increasing need for energy, but a Bedini motor is not part of the solution to that important and vital issue.  If anything, it's a distraction, a waste of time and energy and money that could be put to better use somewhere else.  When I look at that computer graphic video clip with the jumbo 10-coiler powering a house while it charges its battery banks back and forth, I am really offended.  It's pure snake oil and any person that is truly interested in finding solutions for our future energy needs should be offended also.  In that sense this thread is making a contribution to our energy future, it's pointing out the paths that are dead-ends.  If just one person doesn't drop $15,000 on a glorified Bedini 10-coiler battery charger that discharges one set of batteries to put less of a charge in another set of batteries, then I will be doing that person a service.

I am trying to do good here, I really mean it.  You should try to look at it from that perspective.

MileHigh

You don't call this a non-biased opinion. You don't own one and never have tested it for yourself. How can you make this claim? All you do is WATCH. What kind of EE are you? That is not reality. This whole post is riddled with Bashing, no spin here or do you want me to believe different?
   

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The overunityresearch.com forum belongs to Peterae and Poynt99. 

MileHigh and the rest of us are guest here.
   
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Jeff:

You don't need the histrionics with huge fonts.

Quote
Like I posted a while back, a Bedini motor is a very simple pulse circuit, and it can be analyzed inside-out no problem whatsoever.  Every current loop and every voltage node can be looked at and understood.

That's not bashing Jeff, that's the truth.  It's not an opinion at all.

The pie-in-the-sky stuff with respect to a Bedini motor is the alleged extra energy that you get in the charging battery, or the inductive spike, or the allegation that one source battery can charge multiple charging batteries to full charge.  As you well know, it's a totally mixed message, where these points are continuously stated and and are also continuously dismissed.  These points were dismissed just yesterday on the EF thread.

The question for you is still out there, please step up to the plate and tell me what you disagree with and why.

That's what I want to hear from you Jeff, there is no point in quoting me with giant fonts.  What technical points do you want specifically to talk about?

MileHigh
   
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Your right, I don't think I need to continue with the huge fonts, but wanted to keep this in the forefront. When you stop bashing, and clear your mind of your hate towards John, then maybe you begin to see that this energy movement is occurring with or without you. I don't even know you personally, but if we meet in person, the first thing that I would see is such hatred towards a group of folks that is trying to better this world. All you do is comment and with that you never can back up your claims. You always expect everyone else to though. 2 way street don't you think. I have illustrated my inventions, so why not go out and repeat my stuff and prove me wrong. When you are able to go and repeat every test in the same setups, and prove to everyone of your followers, that you were right, then you can stand on your soap box. Until then, as a person whom has never meet you in person, take some friendly advice, put up or shut up!
   
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Hi All,

I think the Nigerian thing is a little to early to tell, and shouldn't be used to support your claims Bits.  ::)
It was just a puff piece, and nothing further has come from it. Although Nigeria does have a strong anti oil community, it also has an even larger scamming community. ;D
We shall wait and see on that one....

As for this tit for tat between MileHigh and Bits... it's simple.

Bit's you are posting here, so you obviously want to correct MileHighs viewpoint.
You also stated that you have illustrated your devices and shown the tests you used to get to your conclusions.
I have a suspicion this is all he wants to see, so copy and paste yours notes here or your published results and hear the silence....

I for one am very interested in your setup, tests and results.
But I want to make up my own mind instead of just relying on a one sentence claim by you, if I could possible fly to USA and talk and test your setup I would, but I can't so I will continue to ask for you to supply it here.

Hope this helps,

Ozy
   
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Jeff:

I have told you repeatedly, the "You have to do the experiments" line doesn't work on me.  I got an A+ in "Pulse Circuits" in 1981 and I don't need to build a trivial little pulse circuit with an inductor discharging into a battery through a diode to understand how it works.  Plus the fact that I have watched about 200+ plus Bedini motor clips on YouTube over the past three years.

I am not bashing.  I can only guess that you are reading technical points from me that might make you uncomfortable because you can't really rebut them.  So you get emotional and accuse me of bashing.  Just give it a break because you say it every time.  I am trying to move the discussion to where it really counts, the technical merits or lack thereof of the whole Bedini motor and related claims.  I do make some strong comments about the topsy-turvy world of free energy sometimes and it's my right to do that.  You can challenge those points if you want to also.

So if you want to argue the merits of a Bedini motor or your system or you want to challenge me on some of the technical points that I have made, I am all for it.  But forget about accusing me of bashing or trying to allege that I can't say anything because I haven't built a Bedini motor or I haven't replicated your stuff.  It's a false argument that you are hiding behind.  If one of your peers on EF wanted to ask you a technical point then you would discuss it with them without insisting that they build it themselves beforehand.  You are trying to use a double-standard with me and it's doesn't fly.

So, again, if there is anything you want to discuss, I am all for it.

MileHigh
   
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I have been banned from Energetic Forum....  :(  ::)

Here is a brief email I sent to the moderator:

Come on that is censorship!
All I did was ask some very valid questions, that many of your members are too afraid of asking because of been banned.
I have promised not to post in defense of CO2 anymore, and they attacked me, so did you ban Ash? did you ban the others that attacked me?
I have stopped replying to those stupid attacks, so banning me only serves the purpose of censoring anyone who asks questions.
Your actions are of a personal nature and not fair. You are just upset that I successfully debunked a few of your claims... So what? Now you know, now you will choose to deliver better evidence for your claims.
You are banning the person who started threads with lots of posts and activity, makes no sense???
Grow up, I am only trying to improve the quality of this forum, so as not to scare away people with a brain.

Hope this helps,

Ozy

So sorry folks looks like the questions will never be answered, Hey I tried! I only wanted to give Rick $10,000 but hey if thats the way they operate, I think I will wait for a less censorship orientated OU device to appear and jump on that.  $10,000 is a lot of money and I think I might spend it on solar panels, the gains will be much more significant then bits setup, and there is no mystery involved, they will also gladly answer any questions I have.

PEACE OUT BROTHERS!!!!
   
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I just want to comment on this line from Jeff:

Quote
I don't even know you personally, but if we meet in person, the first thing that I would see is such hatred towards a group of folks that is trying to better this world.

I know that I say tough stuff sometimes.  How can anyone in their right mind have something against people that are trying to make the world a better place?  It's doesn't make sense!

This is a case where each individual has to use their own values and skills and perceptions to try to "read between the lines" when they come across groups of individuals supporting some kind of cause.

Are they real?  Are they sincere?  Are they a homogeneous group or are they a mixture?  Are some people in the group following along without knowing that they might be being misled?  Are some of the leaders sincere but actually misguided?  Are some of the leaders actually being manipulative and cynically exploiting general ignorance about technology and also exploiting specific individuals?  Are some of the leaders morally right with sound principles behind them?

These are all important questions for you to consider.  You have to ask yourself how much you know about the issues, whether they are technical or social.  You also have to be honest about your own knowledge and skill set and how much you understand what you are seeing and how well you can qualify what you are seeing.

These are all important issues.  In the realm of free energy there is a full spectrum of propositions that are out there.  The spectrum goes from outright crooks looking for money to completely altruistic individual experimenters that will send electronics components to each other for free and are always willing to help each other.

In the Bedini realm, it's a mixed bag, I am not going to say much more than that.  What I will say is that at the Renaissance November workshop convention, every single piece of technology demonstrated was an under unity device.  That is my learned opinion based on my education and real world experience and the way I read between the lines.  At the same time, most likely the vast majority of people that attended the convention believed that they saw demonstrations of one or more over unity devices.   The headline on pesn.com says, "Bedini Renaissance Conference marks turning point in overunity electromagnetic research."  I am telling you that everything demonstrated at the conference was under unity.  I wasn't there, I just read about it.  I am expressing my judgment and firm opinion based on my education and life experience.

You don't have to agree with me.  Ultimately I am giving you my opinion.  But I am 100% confident that if I had the chance to check out every piece of technology demonstrated at the convention in a real lab, the test results would show that every thing was an under unity device.

So I don't feel any general hatred for people that are trying to make the world a better place.  That simply doesn't make any sense.  But for sure there are some good apples and some bad apples out there.  Unfortunately Bedini himself is one of the bad apples.  He is exploiting the general ignorance about how discharging inductors work and calling that "radiant energy."  The Ferris Wheel motor is just a prop until someone comes forward with specifications that state exactly what it does.

I am not a "basher" with an agenda to target someone.  I am just telling you how I see it, and I don't see any true tangible merits with respect to "Bedini technology" with the exception of the possible improvement in energy storage capacity and life-cycle extension that inductive charging can do to batteries.

MileHigh
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
You're not surprised though I expect Ozy?

That's their M.O.

I was never banned myself, but they still deleted my account because I did not use it for a while. But they didn't like me much;  I asked the hard questions as well. So did MH and several others that have been banned from EF.

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Ozy,

Sorry that you got banned and I know that you really want to believe, but my advice to you is to hold off for one full year.  Wait and see if anybody that's independent posts credible evidence that a 10-coiler-based system can produce continuous free energy.  You know my stance on that issue.

You were the only person that asked Jeff the realistic questions that anybody would want to ask and Jeff refused to answer.  That probably put you in hot water right there.

Also, I really doubt that 100 10-coilers have been sold.  I would hazard a guess that the total number sold is less than 10.  There would be much more online activity about them if 100 had been sold.  When they announced a new line of Renaissance chargers a few months ago they were allegedly immediately "sold out" and my eyes rolled.  Also, anything Renaissance sells that has a line cord that plugs into the wall has to have UL approval in the US and UL or CSA approval in Canada.  One person in the States told me they bought one model and it didn't have UL approval.  I am not saying it's a huge issue but there is probably an Australian equivalent to UL or CSA.  The main thing that these organizations check for are design flaws to make sure the devices are safe to operate.

MileHigh
   
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Rosemary:

The voltage you get from a discharging inductor is proportional to the impedance of the load it discharges into.  If the impedance is low, the voltage is low, if the impedance is high, the voltage is high.  This is what I discussed in my long rebut to what Aaron posted and this is what I have repeatedly stated is a very difficult concept for experimenters to understand.  In a Bedini motor there is a one-way path between the discharging inductor and the battery that flows through a diode.  For every discharge pulse the inductor discharges it's energy once and that's it.

Here's a typical example of the generalisaions that both you and Poynty use to justify an argument that is essentially indefensible.  When an AC utility supply source discharges energy it is measured as the voltage supplied times the rate of current flow.  The rate of current flow is determined by the impedance in the path of that current flow.  One never has a discharge from the supply that is different to the amount of current flow back to the supply.   The same with batteries and the same with counter EMF or back EMF.  In this instance - whether or not you want to argue it as an energy supply source or as stored energy - the fact is that it will determine it's rate of current flow in exactly the same way that the supply determined its rate of current flow.  That current flow is NOT determined by the imepedance or otherwise of the battery but by all that is in the path of that current.  The surprise is this.  Whatever has been first applied - vi - can then be captured and returned by those collapsing magnetic field.  Therefore the wattage or vi applied by CEMF or BEMF is equal to the wattage or vi first applied.  Now.  If you want to determine the rate of recharge of that battery - then theoretically it is the value of it's voltage - whatever that is at any given moment multiplied by the amperage through that supply source.  That's how you measure its wattage delivered - in the same way you measure it's wattage returned.  Therefore the 'squashing' or otherwise of that voltage is irrelevant.  The fact is that the amperage through that battery is instantaneously determined by that current flow and the direction of that current flow.  So.  If the closed circuit phase of the supply delivers x watts - it will get back x watts from that inductor - subject only to the marginal losses.  This may be as higher voltage over a shorter time or not.  The fact is that there is that absolute equivalence.  Therefore - negative current flow x battery voltage will represent a recharge.  And postive current flow x battery voltage will represent a discharge.  It really does not matter what happens with that 'spike'.  It's only relative to the component being measured in the path of that flow.

Also evident and unarguable is that the energy that is delivered by CEMF/BEMF returns to its source exactly in the same way as the supply first delivered its energy.  The source of that energy in CEMF in terms of this example is from the inductors.  And this passage or path for the flow of current relies on the dielectric properties of the transistors.  If this is allowed then the energy will go back to the source in an absolutely equivalent way and in an equivalent amount as was discharged by the CEMF/BEMF.  

All of the currents in a Bedini motor setup are accounted for.  You know my take on displacement current.  You can speculate all you want but it's the real current that flows through the battery that counts.  That current comes from the discharging inductor in a simple current loop.  You have a coil, a diode, and a battery in the current loop and that's the entire circuit during the coil discharge phase.  There is no displacement current associated with that current loop.  It's very basic and simple and can easily be verified on a bench.

I agree.  But it hardly proves your point.  What's needed is the data relating to this claim.
   
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