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OverUnity Research > Benches > Grumage (Moderator: Grumage) > SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water)
2024-11-26, 22:32:42
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SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « on: 2017-01-11, 17:14:34 »

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Dear All.

It is a great pleasure to publicly announce the work of Michael J Nunnerley ( Centraflow ) to this forum.

This is the culmination of 15 years experimentation in the area of water Hydrolysis, a cell that produces nearly 100 % Hydrogen gas, the Oxygen gas acting as a chemical transfer to reduce the overall energy consumption.

I'm attaching a link to Mike's PDF for interested parties.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312085042_SMD_Hydrogen_cell_C

Safety first.

As always personal safety is paramount.... Please be aware that Nickel and it's compounds are highly toxic, protection is strongly advised.

I have had the privilege of working with Mike on this project, attached are some pictures of a single cell the remaining four are under construction and my progress will be documented here when time permits.

I have also opened some unlisted videos that were shared between the small working group. They are simply entitled SMD V1 etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uQ5y-5YzV8

Please experiment safely.

Cheers Graham.

« Last Edit: 2017-01-11, 17:46:35 by Grumage »


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #1 on: 2017-01-11, 17:36:21 »
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A wonderful announcement and your own work is always admired.

This process evidently works and has huge potential, to use a pun.
I've been fortunate to be a part of the process myself and to share in the developments.
Am looking forward to replications, observations and real world uses.

 O0


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #2 on: 2017-01-11, 18:49:38 »

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Thanks Mark.   O0

Let's not  forget your contribution......   ;)  O0

Now.... There seems to be quite an interest judging by the views I have already had... Who has the schematic for your SS driver featured here ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdV6UF14Zpc

Cheers Graham.


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #3 on: 2017-01-11, 21:46:37 »
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Hi Graham,

Yep, that's one of my batch that was made a couple of years ago.
The pots shouldn't be sticking, both should be free to move and perhaps that also has given rise to the fast flash observed.
They do indeed alter frequency and duty cycle and I can only imagine that the white pot may have a surface corrosion on it from storage. Similar to brakes sticking on cars first thing on a frosty morning, as an analogy.

The circuit is by Mike Nunnerley and was copied as true as possible, hence the different pots because I didn't have 2 identical ones of exactly the same resistance (5K if memory serves).
The diagram can be found in his original thread...which I believe Chet is looking for at the moment.


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #4 on: 2017-01-11, 23:16:17 »
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After a chat with Chet just now, it would be an idea to present the alternative driving circuit that i came up with.
In essence, it's Mike's original design, but using an Arduino and screen instead of a 555 and pots.
The ability to see the cycles on the screen being most helpful, for determining the actual running rate of the system.
As discussed with Mike, sometimes there are optimum system results with longer cycle lengths, up to 10 seconds rather than a more regular 1 second that was common a couple of years ago.
The '555-A-Like' circuit allows adjustments from 10000ms to 4Hz, with duty cycles from 1% to 95%.

Input is from 7V to 25V for the circuit and relay switching, at up to 1.5A (7805 voltage regulator spec)
Tests so far have been with only 1 relay, but the full SMD system, switching 5 car relays will be approx 30mA x 5 = 150mA. Therefore a 7.5V 500mA transformer would be adequate. Any reasonable voltage and current can then flow through the switched action relays, up to usually 10A.
In my own circuit here, I reuse the power input from a 12V 1A wall adapter in tests, running it also over to the relay, via a MOSFET.

Attached are the circuit diagram (Fritzing), the latest Arduino code and a short vid of my running test setup.
The wiring diagram will be updated, to show the 7805 and the MOSFET/relay driving stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21m18v-4kzs


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #5 on: 2017-01-12, 00:16:47 »

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Graham's thread over at Stefan's overunity.com research website:

http://overunity.com/17074/smd-hydrogen-cell-hydrogen-from-water/msg498224/#new


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #6 on: 2017-01-12, 00:30:12 »

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Fig. 3 of Mike's pdf.


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #7 on: 2017-01-12, 01:43:55 »
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Attached is the original SMD drive circuit, as seen in Graham's video.
Circuit designed by Mike Nunnerley.


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #8 on: 2017-01-12, 18:53:49 »

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Dear All.

It seems Mike's video link isn't working from the pdf, here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv763V9mrHc&feature=youtu.be

Cheers Graham.


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #9 on: 2017-01-14, 11:27:32 »

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Quote from: Slider2732 on 2017-01-12, 01:43:55
Attached is the original SMD drive circuit, as seen in Graham's video.
Circuit designed by Mike Nunnerley.
Mark that is a modulated drive circuit for another application

For those wanting the electronics, please email me at centraflow@gmail.com

All depends on the level of control needed, for super caps you need a constant voltage constant current control, or your caps will be damaged (over charge and heat up). There are voltage considerations depending on the number of cells, it can work with as low a voltage as 2.6v but impractible with one cell with Fe=1.2v so 2 cells would be 2.4v+ some external input to make up to!!!!!

The basics are all in the pdf, but for each persons design there needs to be thought put into, the number of cells, the amount of H2, the external voltage source and current capability.

If you applied 2.6v across the Ni hydroxide electrode and the SS electrode for 60sec, you will get 60sec of H2 and a 60sec charge on the Ni electrode which will have taken the O2 and turned into Ni oxyhydroxide, an oxidation level higher. When you then connect that Ni electrode via a load to a zinc (metal) electrode, you will have 1.6v at a current depending on the load and will run for 60sec until discharged

The hydrogen produced in the first place was produced at around 96% efficiency, then after the oxygen produced more power via the zinc counter electrode. This is not OU, but it is in the SMD system the cheapest electrolysis of water for hydrogen "only" production, the hydrogen is the fuel in the end, or is it not!!!

You basicly get back 30% of your input power on each cycle.

Regards

Mike 8)


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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #10 on: 2017-01-14, 14:54:35 »
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Yep Mike, that's only the front end circuit for the build shown in Graham's vid :)
The MOSFET's and to the left of them being that circuit. It was asked about from various sources.

The new full circuit is a lot different, particularly with the cap driving.
But yes, it shouldn't be confused with the PDF circuit.
Perhaps, however, it can help people new to the matter understand the progression over your many years of development. This is no quick idea on a Sunday afternoon.




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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #11 on: 2017-01-14, 18:10:56 »

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Here's a little extra

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #12 on: 2017-01-15, 09:20:24 »

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For those who are going to use the Nickel hydroxide from a Ni-MH or NI-Cd battery for the electrode, old ones are dry, lost most of the KOH, you could try putting the unrolled innerds into a KOH solution for a few days before unrolling. The other thing is buy new ones, AA is the smallest practical size, C types are easier to work with.

Remember to discharge before opening or you will have a fire, you are warned.

The best way is to make the electrodes as described, as big as you want O0

Regards

Mike 8)

PS. The bigger the mAh of your battery the greater amount of active material, eg 1500mAh not much, 2500mAh quite a lot, final performance will be noted.


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #13 on: 2017-01-15, 11:29:44 »

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For those thinking about the power regulation, there are various chips out there to do this, this is one of them

http://html.alldatasheet.com/html-pdf/561615/TI/LMZ23610/25/1/LMZ23610.html

It goes in series with the cells between the cells and the external supply, when they are switched in series for charging the ESD, this will control the overall voltage and current draw (super caps will draw a huge inrush current to start with, this will control it).

If anyone would like to draw up the complete circuit using this, please do so, my time is a bit thin on the ground atm.

Please remember that depending on the number of cells, parallel and series, giving whatever your power design is, the control parameters will change.

The lower the voltage (2.6v is good) across the Ni/H electrodes and higher current, the more efficient the system will be.

You could have 100 cells, a huge ESD at 5.6v and 50amp discharge(a semi industrial system), the mix and match of cells (parallel/series) is important.

Electronics is a hobby for me, better with RF, so a better design I will leave to the EE's amoungst us, the small POC lab scale has been supplied.

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #14 on: 2017-02-13, 17:12:16 »

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Well I have been quiet as of lately, several reasons, a lot of work helping out my wife with her work, a lot of work on a more industrial size SMD to be built in the USA, and further testing of phase IV SMD cell which is simpler to build and uses only two electrodes, nickel hydroxide and stainless steel with a higher energy density.
The basic outline is in the below DOI

Moving on, simplified two electrode, 316 stainless steel/nickel hydroxide SMD electrolysis cell producing cheap hydrogen from water, without using an iron or zinc counter electrode.

This is the DOI: 10.13140/RG.2.2.20055.06567

Link:- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313660479_Phase_IV_SMD_Hydrogen_only_from_water

All comments welcome

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Re: SMD Hydrogen cell (hydrogen from water) « Reply #15 on: 2017-03-06, 15:54:30 »

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The following is part of the phase IV SMD cell system.

How a cell is made img030
Circuit of control, the max external input is controlled by the CVCC, img031
The circuit of the CVCC (LMZ23610), img026

The two ionic separaters which encase the nickel hydroxide electrode, must terminate at the top of the cell and have a release to the atmosphere via a light spring  pressure release valve. This ensures maximum oxygen take up of the nickel hydroxide, and ensures a pressure stability with the hydrogen side of the membranes. The membrane is specially made inhouse and will be a subject of a separate paper, it can be used as a normal separation in any battery, it can also be used as a gas separater, it is a nylon re-enforced celulose acetate with ionic conduction.

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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