Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential

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Author Topic: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential (Read 102604 times)

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #75 on: 2017-01-18, 18:52:34 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: TinselKoala on 2017-01-18, 17:46:13 http://www.ballchain.com/chain_sizes.html I used to get it from a hardware store in Alameda CA where they kept the larger sizes in stock for some reason. Here in the UK we can buy lengths of ballchain for bathplugs. Graham, the shape does not matter as long as you follow TK's recommendations about sharp edges and sharp radii. Smudge

Grumage	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #76 on: 2017-01-19, 15:18:51 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear TinselKoala. Will this do ? http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjDmIe7wM7RAhWMBBoKHVKSAYAQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fitm%2F2-Metres-Silver-Plated-Metal-Ball-Chain-1-5mm-Ball-%2F310609137442&usg=AFQjCNHyS5LoWuCDYoVaWMvMV1F5zMiT4Q&sig2=c5B6qp5gRrpjes1kS35cyw Cheers Graham. Here's my Van de Graaff generator..... Alongside our power outage standby light.... All fuelled up and ready to go at a moments notice. ------------------------ Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential VdG1.png (538.86 kB, 632x472 - viewed 809 times.) --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

evolvingape	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #77 on: 2017-01-19, 16:44:47 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Smudge on 2017-01-18, 18:52:34 Graham, the shape does not matter as long as you follow TK's recommendations about sharp edges and sharp radii. An interesting point that students of Lord Kelvin's Thunderstorm appreciate. Some shapes are more efficient than others though.. Quote from: Grumage on 2017-01-19, 15:18:51 Here's my Van de Graaff generator..... The sphere in the VdG is considered optimal for focusing charge potential. So an undesirable charge leakage in the system infrastructure is prevented in order to create an overload in a tiny volume of space, focusing the energy. The spark ionizes the path of least resistance through the surrounding medium. The Kelvin generator drops liquid mass through the Earth's gas, in a gravitational field picking up a charge as it is accelerated through space. This works anywhere on the planet, if it was picking up the charge from the A field I would expect it's performance to change as the position of the apparatus on the planet's surface changed, because the gravitational field was inline with A field, or 90 degrees out. --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #78 on: 2017-01-19, 19:53:33 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: evolvingape on 2017-01-19, 16:44:47 The Kelvin generator drops liquid mass through the Earth's gas, in a gravitational field picking up a charge as it is accelerated through space. This works anywhere on the planet, if it was picking up the charge from the A field I would expect it's performance to change as the position of the apparatus on the planet's surface changed, because the gravitational field was inline with A field, or 90 degrees out. The gravitational field (radial to the Earth sphere) is always at 90 degrees to the A field, it can never be in line. The A field everywhere runs horizontal W to E. Smudge

Grumage	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #79 on: 2017-01-20, 16:15:49 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Van de Graaff " Gee up " I have a broken plasma lamp, ( Glass broken ). Could I use the generator to spray onto the belt to increase output ? HV diode needed ? Cheers graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Grumage	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #80 on: 2017-01-23, 20:34:19 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Ok.... A very loud silence to my previous post?? Well. My " bling " Silver plated ball chain arrived today, all 2 metres of it. I would like to report that by using my " Earth " sphere from the V d G in place of the Brass ones I'm seeing a ball at rest with the machine switched off to an ever so slight East/West swing with the collector cracking over to ground rhythmically. I'm still suffering corona losses from the chain but in one area only, dirty perhaps ? A tentative " YES " perhaps? We'll see.... Kind regards, Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Chet K	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #81 on: 2017-01-23, 21:34:32 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Grum as requested Smokey started a tutorial thread on his Motor http://overunity.com/17100/sm0ky2s-modified-voss-machine/msg498683/#new he's having issues ATM with posting Pics and such [using the phone to post is ruff]

evolvingape	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #82 on: 2017-01-23, 21:37:29 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Grumage on 2017-01-23, 20:34:19 A very loud silence to my previous post?? Not in my case, it is a silence in response to this: Quote from: Smudge on 2017-01-19, 19:53:33 The gravitational field (radial to the Earth sphere) is always at 90 degrees to the A field, it can never be in line. The A field everywhere runs horizontal W to E. I am thinking because I am confused.. and that is unpleasant and silent. --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

TinselKoala	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #83 on: 2017-01-24, 05:14:44 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Grumage on 2017-01-23, 20:34:19 Ok.... A very loud silence to my previous post?? Well. My " bling " Silver plated ball chain arrived today, all 2 metres of it. I would like to report that by using my " Earth " sphere from the V d G in place of the Brass ones I'm seeing a ball at rest with the machine switched off to an ever so slight East/West swing with the collector cracking over to ground rhythmically. I'm still suffering corona losses from the chain but in one area only, dirty perhaps ? A tentative " YES " perhaps? We'll see.... Kind regards, Graham. I would have suggested getting an ordinary brass ball-chain, but with larger diameter balls. 1.5 mm is pretty small. The "effective diameter" should be large in order to reduce the field concentrations which leak charge. Your chain may have a rough spot, sharp edge or point in the area where it is spraying corona. Look at the setup running in a dark room, identify the leaky area, and then carefully inspect the chain in that area for roughness or sharp points. When you've corrected this spray area, some other place on your machine will then become the area of greatest field concentration and then you can improve that area. Eventually your machine/experiment may have discharge areas in random locations that move around. This will mean that you have done all that you can do and your machine is "equalized" in terms of field concentrations and is reaching the highest voltage possible under your environmental conditions. Then you can think about enclosing the whole thing in a gas-tight container and pumping up 10 atmospheres of CO₂ or SF₆ gas pressure to further insulate it and reach even higher voltages....

TinselKoala	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #84 on: 2017-01-24, 05:20:15 »
Group: Guest	As far as identifying the motion of a charged, suspended sphere when EHV is present/absent, you have to be very careful. Charged bodies can develop quite substantial attraction/repulsion forces even at surprisingly low voltages. For example in an experiment we did at my former laboratory we were able to get a heavy bicycle wheel-sized rotor to turn with only 500 volts of charge potential between the 1-inch diameter sparking drive electrodes. This really surprised us as we were expecting to need tens of kV in order to get things moving. So you can easily get a suspended, charged sphere to jerk back and forth simply because it is attracted/repelled from objects in the environment that you didn't think were actually part of your experiment at all !! Or you may have created an "ion thruster" if you have some unnoticed sharp or rough area that can spray corona invisibly at unexpectedly low potentials.

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #85 on: 2017-01-24, 14:57:44 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	I accept everything TK says, he is obviously skilled in all this very high voltage stuff. While encouraged by Grum's tentative results it will take some painstaking work to establish whether it really is the wanted force being seen. All I can offer at the moment is to minimise the mass so as to increase the movement and that would need the making of another sphere. Also to try different locations to see whether the movement is always E-W. However it should be noted that current flowing down or up the suspension chain in the presence of the horizontal component of Earth's magnetic B field will also induce E-W motion (Fleming's LH rule). So maybe a better approach is to look at a pair of spheres, one at each end of an insulated rod, with the thing balanced on a pivot that allows it to rotate in the horizontal plane. If one sphere is charged positively while the other is charged negatively the application or removal of charge should generate a torque impulse if the rod lies N-S, and not do so if the rod lies E-W. However we still have to consider the conductors supplying the charge and the influence of the Earth's B field vertical and horizontal components. If the conductors supplying the charge lie along the B field then there should be no force on them when they carry current. See attached image Smudge ------------------------ Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential Rotary experiment.jpg (61.97 kB, 629x363 - viewed 689 times.)

Grumage	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #86 on: 2017-01-24, 15:47:15 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	To be frank, I'm a little annoyed...... You published your paper on the 16 th of January, I asked about the chain 5 days ago and today we read the chain is too small and ionic forces unseen might skew the results.... A simple post earlier could have saved a lot of time. I'm unable to pursue this avenue at the moment due to a severe chest infection that came on rather suddenly overnight. Perhaps TK could provide some pointers for your latest idea? As my V d G is a very sturdy construction perhaps the pivot could be made off the centre of the collector? Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #87 on: 2017-01-24, 19:49:04 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: Grumage on 2017-01-24, 15:47:15 To be frank, I'm a little annoyed...... You published your paper on the 16 th of January, I asked about the chain 5 days ago and today we read the chain is too small and ionic forces unseen might skew the results.... Sorry if I've annoyed you. The ballchain came from TK, he is the expert on high voltage phenomena. I would never have thought of ballchain I thought a simple suspension wire would do the trick. Quote A simple post earlier could have saved a lot of time. I have only just realized the implications of the force on the vertical wire, had I thought this through earlier I would have suggested the alternative scheme. Quote I'm unable to pursue this avenue at the moment due to a severe chest infection that came on rather suddenly overnight. Perhaps TK could provide some pointers for your latest idea? As my V d G is a very sturdy construction perhaps the pivot could be made off the centre of the collector? That's not a bad idea providing only one sphere actually gets the charge from the V d G (the other sphere just acts as a counterbalance). The connection could go through the pivot and along one radius arm. But I am thinking small wire again and that produces corona. Maybe a ballchain inside a plastic tube (with appropriate counter weight of course). Hope your infection clears up quickly, some of the infections in this part of Yorkshire are lasting for weeks. Regards Smudge

Grumage	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #88 on: 2017-01-24, 20:30:17 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear Cyril. My apologies, I'm feeling a little " rough " no, my comments were directed to TK. His expertise in this area is far greater than anyone, I felt a timely comment could have saved us a lot of effort. As for the chain, well there are many " beady eyes " here..... probably end up draped around a neck or wrist !! Kind regards, Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Chet K	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #89 on: 2017-01-24, 21:46:24 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Tinsel has very serious commitments elsewhere , Time is a commodity which can be hard to come by at times. So at least we have learned a bit more [a very big bit] about the proper path forward. Grum your efforts are tremendous and I know it gets harder to do as time goes by , hopefully the future will have some brighter spots !!

TinselKoala	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #90 on: 2017-01-25, 04:39:38 »
Group: Guest	Sorry to disappoint... and I don't log onto this site every day. But I did say this when I first brought it up: Quote Use bead-chain with large balls for your flexible "wires" to make connections from the machine to the load. And then right after that I provided a link to a USAan source/manufacturer of large sizes of ball chain. It's not that huge an issue; the 1.5 mm ballchain, silver plated, will be better than thin flexible wire, once you find the offending rough or sharp spot. Larger is better, within reason (cost, availability, physical handling properties, etc all should be considered.) It's not worth fighting about though. Another item that is indispensable is aluminum foil duct tape. And a trick I showed in passing in one of my videos is to use tiny magnets attached to either end of a length of ball chain -- with bits of the aluminum tape -- to make connections with metal cans or spheres. If the spheres are non-magnetic, you can glue another magnet inside the sphere. Mark the location on the outside, and then you can stick your magnet-ended ball chain on at that spot. Hope you feel better soon, Grum. You are doing good work, keep the stress level low and chill out for a while.

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #91 on: 2017-01-25, 09:47:17 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	I found that a Google search using the string ("hidden momentum" + "magnetic vector potential") (without the brackets) returned lots of papers discussing the subject. The hidden (non velocity-dependent) momentum given by qA applies to both the conduction electrons and the ions, but these are in opposite directions so normally they cancel out. The big question is can a change in hidden momentum result in a force due to conservation of momentum? In other word if qA changes value does q get a kick so as to obtain a velocity that creates non-hidden momentum mv to counter that change? Well in the well known case where A changes value we know that we get an electric field E=-dA/dt that puts a force qE on q. So the answer seems to be yes. In these experiments we are changing q while A remains constant. It seems surprising that this experiment hasn't been done before, or maybe it has and we just haven't found the reference. Smudge

Grumage	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #92 on: 2017-01-25, 18:28:52 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Quote from: TinselKoala on 2017-01-25, 04:39:38 Hope you feel better soon, Grum. You are doing good work, keep the stress level low and chill out for a while. Thanks. And I wish the same to you. Kind regards, Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #93 on: 2017-02-04, 20:48:53 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	You read it here first. Here is my paper purporting to have discovered (or rediscovered) a lost electrodynamic force. I feel like one of those explorers who has discovered a lost continent or a lost civilization. They left their wives to go on their voyages of discovery. I do the same but I just go upstairs to spend time on my voyages . Smudge ------------------------ Discovery of a Lost Electrodynamic Force.pdf (34.15 kB - downloaded 318 times.)

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #94 on: 2017-02-05, 17:22:57 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	Here is another paper. I wish I had the money and the equipment to perform meaningful experiments but sadly that is not the case. Smudge ------------------------ Further considerations on the Vector Potential.pdf (376.51 kB - downloaded 294 times.)

Grumage	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #95 on: 2017-02-05, 17:38:57 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear Cyril. Regarding figure 6 of your latest paper. Could I use " whole " spheres press fitted into a polycarbonate disc? I have a maximum " Swing " of 7" on my lathe meaning I could create just under a 14" diameter disc, would this be adequate ? Kind regards, Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Peterae	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #96 on: 2017-02-05, 19:37:59 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	If i remember correctly Hendershot said if you cut the earths magnetic field East-West you get movement and if you cut it North-South you get energy.

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #97 on: 2017-02-05, 19:54:25 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: Grumage on 2017-02-05, 17:38:57 Dear Cyril. Regarding figure 6 of your latest paper. Could I use " whole " spheres press fitted into a polycarbonate disc? I have a maximum " Swing " of 7" on my lathe meaning I could create just under a 14" diameter disc, would this be adequate ? Kind regards, Graham. Dear Graham, I am sure you can make a 14 inch diameter motor. I think it needs to be as lightweight as possible, to be well balanced and mounted on low friction bearings. The aim is to make an electrostatic motor rotating about a horizontal axis that runs up to a self sustaining speed. Then see if that speed varies as the rotation axis is turned through 360 degrees. If you get maximum speed with the axis N-S and minimum speed with the axis S-N then that indicates the Earths vector magnetic potential is having the wanted effect. Best regards, Cyril

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #98 on: 2017-02-06, 07:55:50 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	It doesn't have to use spheres. Empty coke cans could work, like the machine on youtube someone posted recently. That rotated in the horizontal plane and a feature of this type of motor is that it can run in any direction. You have to give it a push to start it. So see if it runs faster in one direction compared to the other, rather than turning the whole machine through 180 degrees. Smudge

Smudge	Re: Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential « Reply #99 on: 2017-02-06, 20:05:39 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	A search on Youtube for Franklin electrostatic motor show lots of replications. These all seem to use spark gap commutation which may not be the best way to transfer the charge, but on the other hand it removes the friction of brushes. I wonder whether anybody has found that their motor runs one way faster than the other way? I guess not since the device is seen more as a curiosity than a useful piece of kit. Here are a few interesting ones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlL3XtzYWV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My5AXyYJFW4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmCv-0mWIfA Also a picture of Franklin's motor. The motor can run in either direction. If the line joining the two Leyden jars runs N-S then the thimbles are travelling E-W or W-E as they pass over the jars and change polarity. There should then be a difference in rotation speed between CW or CCW rotation, due to the change in hidden momentum from the Earths A field. Turn the thing through 90 degrees so the jars are E-W and the change in revs should disappear. Greatest effect at the equator, zero effect at the Earth's poles. Smudge ------------------------ Using the Earth's vector magnetic potential slide_19.jpg (59.18 kB, 960x720 - viewed 625 times.)

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